Vhaltz

I just noticed I interrupted this stream of thought and started another one without remembering to come back and finish this one. w/e later

See: Being more adamant about Shinori before I noticed his meta explained the behavior. I thought Shinori was likely scum at that point and getting what I wanted out of Prims was a secondary objective. Scorri is the best I've got after my read on Shinori sucked. Seeing as you've found nothing else to comment on that isn't me I don't think it's accurate to judge that my scumhunting is scummy out of that. Not to mention that I had a bunch of reads I wanted to expand upon but have been forced to out them, like when Eury picked up my "Keeping an eye on Poly because of reasons" in FE6, pushed me about it, saw I didn't reply and looked for stuff in my play to case me for. In general you don't really explain why anything in my actions or behavior furthers the scum agenda. Nor do the others on my wagon really. If I were scum I'd be BSing safe cases that weren't entirely subjective (BBM should know this after being scum with me) and wouldn't have pressure plans to get better reads on players I shouldn't really care about if I knew they were town? This has been the day from my perspective: - I vote Shinori over the post complain thing which is a behaviour tell that I think is scummy. - I FoS Prims to get him to play the game seriously. Anybody who reads Prims' jokeposts towards the end of page three and reads the meta thing I wrote out "he tends to care more about and reply to early votes/suspicion as scum" will understand why I thought this was worth doing. His posts were sort of defensive but jokeposts all in all so making assumptions from them would be pretty dumb. I got him to answer me seriously with a question about my tell since the tell I used to call him out was bad yet common enough to be used seriously. - kirsche asks me his question about Prims that I understand as a question about Shinori given the context and terminology. While I'm trying to answer this without giving away any of my plans (the meta thing on Prims and seeing Shinori's reaction to the votes) I kind of find that the tell on Shinori isn't really that great, but stick with it because nothing really relevant has happened and I don't have anything else worth voting. I try to answer the question the best I can without giving away my reads in development because last time I ignored a question Late D1 in FE6 happened and half the game (all town) suspected me. It also crosses my mind that kirsche's question is actually a loaded question coming from scum at some point due to it being so odd and feeling like any answer I gave could lead to twisting up some reasoning to vote me, which is where the whole "anti-town and pro-scum intended as indicating alignment" came from when I replied to SB earlier today (I thought if I said "anti-town" he would vote me for voting bad play over scum play, and if I said "pro-scum" he'd vote me because I called it anti-town earlier). I was pretty convinced kirsche was scum for loading the question during the while I commuted back home and it took me a while to try to keep it neutral and see what his followup was. - Poly comments on "Shinori play" which makes me lose confidence in my Shinori read when coupled with several people harping on my case. I don't really have anything else at this point. I check the newer posts and nothing I read feels scummy. I liked Randa's SB vote for admitting he wasn't town but figured talking about townreads when people are harping on my case and expecting replies from me is only going to look like I'm scum trying to look townier by handing out random townreads. I also sort of gutread SB recently because so far he sounds like the SB I get annoyed at MotK for wanting to lynch when he's obvtown. - I try to find scum since I don't want to stick to Shinori anymore and don't want to empty unvote, people were already harping on me and confirmation bias is a thing, you may argue that I shouldn't care about getting wagoned as town and there was a point where I didn't give a damn, but my ego was also abnormally high then and I try to keep it in check now, so basically yeah I do get worries that I fuck up, and I'm going to try not to get lynched instead of just throwing the game and self-voting. scorri pinged me because she's discussing Prims' weirdness with other players but not really doing anything about it by asking him any questions or laying down a vote. Then people continue to harp on everything I do and I'm forced to out everything that I came up with that may have been useful to my scumhunting today. I'm going full thought process transparency mode now like old days, Prims might want to shoot himself but eh, it's worth a try. Also apologies that I may have gotten a bit salty at points, frustration slowly accumulating over hours is a thing. Anything long after BBM's post I haven't read, I don't know what to think about scorri. I'm thinking NNR is probably scum because I was here during the whole time he was lurking and the post just seems fake as hell "sorry it was my bro who took over my computer and did that" kind of excuse. BBM I have a sort of gut pinging on because it feels like he is deliberately handwaving the thought process behind my interactions because they are impossible to paint as scum and focusing on everything else seeing as my play has been all over the place trying to keep my prospects of read development hidden. It's late and I have to go to bed for reals now. I don't get the feeling that I've been doing that incredibly bad this game but apparently I have. Idk. later!

This makes literally no sense at all given the context and feels like you're just pulling excuses out of your ass to vote for me Like fuck, if you wanted to ask me what I thought of Prims you could've said "hey do you think prims is town or scum" instead of the "is he anti-town or pro-scum" shit which makes no sense. So I obviously assume you're referencing Shinori, who's the only player I've ever referred to in terms of "anti-town". "Being apathetic isn't pro-scum, it's anti-town. There's no scum-intent to it." Genius, if only it wasn't the very same thing I said in my first post in reply to you that you clearly haven't read. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=46734&p=2987130 At this point I realize I can kind of see how you'd rush to suspect me over sidestepping issues since I just wasn't getting the idea that you were asking me about Prims, but it's still pretty infuriating that you don't read my posts and throw me hypercondescending attitude when you clearly caused the issue yourself, so I'm keeping everything in regardless. @SB Prims FoS was not a reaction test, it was a push to get on with the game. I wanted to not wall anymore in mafia and play like I did in FE6 but I have time to spare so if you guys want the full thought process on Prims here you go. The first few posts in the game are pretty useful in getting an idea of Prims' alignment specially if he is being wagoned D1 because he tends to care more about and reply to early votes/suspicion as scum (he said this himself somewhere I don't recall), if he's posting facetiously this becomes harder to read. The tell I used on Prims to throw out the jokeposts was "lol hypocrite" which is an argument contradiction logic tell and those suck. Hence why I asked him if he thought I was just wrong or if he thought the tell was bad. If he told me the tell was bad and why it probably meant Prims town and if he chose "it's wrong" and went about it in a way that felt like scum caught for the wrong reasons then it meant scum. I got the middle ground. My read on him is on standby and I didn't want to remind him of his own meta in hopes of finding something incriminating if he's scum but w/e it's probably not going to be useful anymore. Gonna stop bloating the thread now and go to bed. If any short questions come my way in the next 30 minutes I'll address them but that's that.

Scum can afford to be lazy/apathetic because they don't have to find scum and town shouldn't be apathetic because they have to lynch scum. Essentially it could go both ways and I was leaning scum.

I worded this bit really dumb. I was essentially defending my case hard for a large paragraph here but then I cut it because I don't feel that strongly about Shinori anymore and gauging a reaction from Shinori for a better read by keeping suspicion on him until he came back wasn't worth "lying" by overpushing a case I knew could be wrong. ##Unvote ##Vote: scorri Appears to have forgotten she had a vote. Poly is guilty of the same but he is asking questions instead of noncommittally throwing suspicion on the biggest wagon.

vc Vhaltz: SB SB: Prims, Randa Prims: BBM, Shinori, dragonfang scorri: kirsche Shinori: Kay, Vhaltz Eury: Poly Poly: Eury BBM: scorri

I'm voting somebody who did something scummy and shouldn't be doing said thing if town. Your case only works under the assumption that tells are equally null for everybody. It's fine though because I did hint at Shinori not being the big scumread I was making it out to be anymore. I was more adamant earlier because I thought it was a decent tell for so early in the game, but Shinori not paying much attention at times makes sense with what I've seen of him so far and Poly pointed that very same thing just now so meh. @Poly, kirsche meant Shinori and not Prims. My exchange with Prims was unrelated to reads, I was using the pressure of my RVS vote to push him so he'd stop jokeposting and take the game seriously. If he kept posting facetiously I wasn't going to be able to read him.

I'm up with it too, but there's no rule stating that scum can't use cards and kill simultaneously, that I could see at least. Another post inc

Assuming you mixed up Prims and Shinori. Considering "pro-scum" to be moves made with scum intent (defending buddies, pushing lynches on claimed PRs, etc), apathy is anti-town. ED1 apathy is a slip tell and not a scum intent tell. If you wanted me to elaborate on what I think of his alignment, you'll have to wait until I see more posts from him.

Clarifying: I'd see "legit" page complaints coming from players who arrive late to the thread and don't have the time to dedicate to reading much in mafia because they're busy. This instance is an apathy complaint.

I was aware, but replying at the jab wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Voting for Kay or Randa atm would be voting for lack of content. There's nothing to even grasp at unless you want to say Kay's Shinori vote is grasping. Shinori's complaining about the pagecount when we're barely even starting indicates mentality of either noticeably apathetic town or uninterested scum. If he's town he can read this and step it up.

So which one do you think: Is the tell wrong? or is it bad?

##Unvote ##Vote: Shinori Laziness to read the thread when there's >20 one-liner posts is anti-town mentality. FoS Prims for harping on SB not explaining things to move the game further and proceeding to keep jokeposting right after.

CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES ##Vote: Prims I can read prims

/in Things may get a bit busy for me at some points so expect lower activity than usual. Might as well learn how to mafia without spending over half my day on it.

That was the joke. It's specially accurate after all of the rage in this last chapter.

Really looking forward to the last few chapters and the public release, this looks fun as hell to play. And by fun I mean hell.

Enjoying reading these, it's so eclectic to read one chapter by one of you and then the next by another considering that you have such different styles in LP humor. Poly better stop being lazy and start doing stuff or I'd recommend forcesubbing eclipse in for him.

What the fuck am I reading I want to read this game if the hydra happens

So are there any plans for a quick mafia on IRC/skype/other forum or something in the end? I have a relatively free weekend.

Glad to see this is back, pretty impatient to see those last chapters.

If you want it to be the closest to IRL mafia it could be like on-call skype mafia some day of the weekend or something. Text probably works best so that clattering key sounds don't give away the scumteam when they're talking amongst each other though.

I too need somebody to check my setup, had half-setups sitting around for a while now and I finally managed to complete one today.

I'll probably be able to play mafia again once Eclipse's game is over, for a game or two depending on how well I do with my uni stuffs. However, I noticed while reading the latest games that there seems to be a surge of conflict lately where somebody gets heavily frustrated in almost every game and it's not something specifically happening to one or two specific players but appears to be a general thing instead. I talked this out with Kaoz to see if there's anything that could be done to prevent this from happening or at least make it less frequent and I wanted to post in-depth about what I think of frustration in games, but I've gotten mad playing mafia before so I shouldn't really be one to talk. I still feel like it's something worth talking about to make games more enjoyable for everybody though. PS: Also I'm working on a setup and I was wondering if rambling a bit about flavor-related stuff for fun in PM's is frowned upon, since I remember most PM's I've seen here being rather serious/straightforward.

72 hours of combined inactivity through two LyLo phases kind of warrants a forcesub IMO. I mean I can understand not wanting to modkill him like Elieson said but subbing is a whole different matter.