Anouleth

Stahl/Donnel is my favourite.

stats on fred before he croaked?

fagballs (that's prince fagballs to you, peasant)

I'm not considering the storyline. My whole point was that certain chapters, like Prologue of Part 1 of Radiant Dawn, are like cutscenes and should be ignored entirely. I don't get where you got that I wanted to consider characters based on their cutscene performance. The fact that Edward is "better than Micaiah" is not particularly impressive. Being stronger than someone who is considered possibly the second or third weakest combat unit in the game, out of 72 units, in one chapter is not what I'd consider being a "good unit". I think 4 units is the point where I can take a chapter seriously. So I think that FE13 Prologue, or the starting chapters of FE11, or FE6 are relevant to tier lists. But FE8 Prologue, or FE7 Prologue, or FE9 Prologue, I don't care about at all. It's just that usually, those chapters don't provide excuses to hype up otherwise shit units. This has nothing to do with Edward (who is actually one of my favourite characters, who I have argued many times in favour of in the FE10 tier list). I feel the same way about other units in very similar situations, like Brom, Ike, Lyn, Marth... well, there are probably others I have forgotten.

I don't think anyone was in any doubt that Frederick could solo the game in earlygame chapters against shitty unpromoted enemies.

I find it hard to believe that Fred is going to be doubling anything with 16 speed, or lower if apparently he's speed screwed in addition. Hell, aren't enemies in Chapter 17 going to be doubling him? I know that Valkyries have ~24 speed in that chapter, and Heroes were probably around 22 speed.

The issue is not the complexity. The issue (which should be obvious) is that Edward is forced deployment and one of only two units available to you. Of course, in such an environment, where the player is practically being forced to use Edward, Edward is going to look good, but I think most people would agree that's not the sort of thing that really makes a unit good. Being forced to use a unit does not make that unit better: the fact that Edward saves a lot of turns is an artifact of the storyline putting you into a position where he is your only viable combat unit, rather than him being a strong combat or utility unit relative to other units (which is what most people would define as good). I don't consider many chapters in FE to be meaningful indicators of whether a unit is good or bad, particularly Prologue chapters which often force you to use only one or two units. In my perspective, those chapters might as well be extended semi-interactive cutscenes. I would certainly prefer it in the case of FE10 2-1, which is a nightmarre without transfers.

Hmm... FE7 Canas FE8 Lute FE8 Gilliam FE8 Trainees FE10 Soren FE10 Edward FE11 Cord

Fred always gives good pair up boosts. There's no reason you can't build a support between him and any of the numerous women who would love +6 STR/DEF and more movement.

How is a Second Seal that exists only sometimes because the Merchant might not sell one any different from a Second Seal that exists only sometimes because Panne is using it? I don't see how it makes any difference at all with respect to Miriel's situation. Either way, Miriel is depending on a Seal that is sometimes available to her to use and sometimes not.

I don't really think that any of the Fire Emblem characters are disturbing, except Nowi.

I don't get how armsthrift is even more necessary with a limited budget. Armsthrift only directly affects gold you spend on purchasing and forging weapons... if you have a limited budget, you will likely still be spending money on Tonics, Seals, healing staves, and certain stat boosters (Energy Drops being far more efficient than forging additional mt on weapons), but you'll be spending a smaller portion of income, or perhaps even none at all on weapons and forges (dropped weapons being plentiful). Indeed, the marginal impact of armsthrift doesn't seem particularly high unless you use it on rare weapons or reach very high levels of luck... consider that a unit with 25 luck is only getting double the number of uses out of a forged weapon. So essentially, if you were to give this hypothetical unit a +4 Steel Axe costing 5880, it would be like he had two such axes. Or you could just give a unit with the +2 strength skill, which isn't hard to acquire, two +2 Steel Axes, costing 4900, and get the same results. And since Gregor, Cordelia, and Robin don't have particularly good luck anyway, it's unlikely you'll see them go significantly above that 50% activation rate, and for the vast majority of the game they will be in that region or below. The only exception is Donnel who has ridonkulous luck and can easily reach 80-90% Armsthrift activation, but I wouldn't really say that's worth his abysmal earlygame and consuming your first second seal.

Why is that stupid? Why is that qualitatively less stupid than "x is better than y but only if there isn't serious competition for the first second seal in chapter z"? Why is it stupid to point out that if there is a Second Seal in the shops, Miriel is a better character?

When discussing resource competition, you already take into account a certain probability that the character in question might not get it. So I don't see the problem with taking into account the probability of the Second Seal becoming available for purchase either. I guess the issue would be the impact of real time on the chance of a Second Seal appearing... I don't know how much weight is given to these possibilities, but there's also the possibility of making Vaike or Gregor into Barbarians, or turning Gaius into a Myrmidon or Fighter. Point is, there are plenty of good alternative ways for a Second Seal to be useful even if we don't use Miriel. Somebody is going to want it. Miriel might get more out of it (especially because she seems pretty crap without it), but it still has a cost associated with it.

InigoxGerome

Uh, wouldn't Stillness count as being "stealthy"? It basically prevents the thief from being targeted. And Shade can be seen as a weaker form of it. I personally thought that Stillness was a really cool skill and I was disappointed to see that it wasn't in FE13.

I never said that Daggers were competitive with Swords in FE10, I said they had competitive base stats, and they do. They are hampered by a lack of forgeability and variety (like not getting Blade equivalents, having no Brave equivalent). But many people in this thread talk about them like they were bad because they had awful numbers attached to them, when they didn't. Comments like "The last thing we want is thieves having even crappier Atk", or "daggers have to have better might". Actually, isn't it completely irrelevant in Part 3 because you can just buy and sell dirt cheap Steel Poleaxes and get forgepoints that way? To produce enough points to make a forge, it only actually costs about 700 gold, quite aside from all the points they get from selling off old or useless equipment anyway. So it really only screws over the DB.

I mean the bits where instead of doing something cool, like going on an adventure, you were roped into doing some bullshit, like gathering eggs for some chick so she could get her voice back, or finding some old man so we could put a child to sleep, or having a "stealth section". Like, non-adventure stuff. Wasn't really a big fan of the Goron Mask, either. And of course, it was too short. Instead of putting in more sidequests where you wipe people's asses, they should have put in more adventures. Or action or whatever. Isn't Zelda supposed to be action-adventure?

Except that the inability to forge Daggers in FE10 is immaterial to the question of whether or not they should have been included in FE13, since you can forge every non-legendary weapon, cooking implement and log you come across.

You know, there are places on the internet, places even on this very site where you can actually look up the stats of daggers in FE10 and see that daggers had competitive base statistics in FE10. Silver Daggers have the same MT as Silver Swords, but more hit and more crit. Steel Daggers had a whopping 1 less mt than Steel Swords. The only serious "downside" of daggers was that you couldn't forge them, but that clearly wouldn't have been an issue in this game because every weapon can be forged. Really, I would have liked to see Knives just so thieves don't hold giant swords in that horribly awkward backhand stance. It's especially ridiculous with dimunitive females like Anna, who often do it with swords almost as large as their whole bodies.

I would have liked Majora's Mask more if it had less bullshit in it. Aside from the bullshit, it was a great game.

Well you can tier characters however you please. I'm simply explaining the logic that the other 99% of debaters on this site use, because you said that you "couldn't make sense" of it. I will explain it again if you still don't understand.

Because you're counting it twice. If Thany needs Rutger to exist in order to save every single one of those 50 turns, then she must share part of the credit. Or, alternatively, you could say that because Rutger is not assumed to be in play always, then Thany is only saving those 50 turns some of the time. Both are good logical routes to the same desired outcome: that a unit that relies on specific other units to make their contribution to play is "less good" than a unit that does not rely on those units to make an equal contribution to play. I don't follow how not 1-rounding a given enemy is a "HUGE problem", if apparently it's perfectly acceptable to just take an extra turn to kill them.

Except that FE outsells Shin Megami Tensei anyway, so if anything, Atlus is a rung below Fire Emblem! Unless "cult status" means "sells badly".

Do you not see a problem with giving sword users effective coverage against everything?