Book VIII Discussion Thread

[DefyingFates]

You know the drill. What do you think? Ratatoskr's animal form is way more cartoony than I expected and it's nice to have her fawn over someone who isn't Kiran for a change. I didn't expect Yggdrasil to be its own setting but I guess it counts as a "realm between realms" instead of the ninth? The bounty hunter angle could be fun and the designs are decent* and we may finally learn what the deal is with Henriette! Maybe!

Also, Feh said something about the assassins messing with Askr and Embla's reconciliation whicih makes me think they're part of some false flag operation?

* Too bad Lucina lost her pants as a result. She always had decent outfits until now.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I think it's lame and objectively bad that Ratatoskr fell victim to the gender-bend and isn't a male. It's gonna be yet another slog of a book with even more awful writing and bad pacing where the one singular new male OC dies, I'm sure.

[Acacia Sgt]

It's kinda even worse when you consider that we might also get a gender-bent Heimdall as well.

Anyway, I find it curious they turned the tree into its own sub-realm. But I suppose it helps to prolong the time before Asgard I guess.

[Lemmy]

Ratatoskr looks like an old fashioned nurse, old fashioned enough that maid is part of her job.

Hraesvelger seems focused on surgical tools, maybe more an the examination side.

I imagine Nidhoggr fills a chemist role, but focusing on anything other than the painted on clothes is difficult.

 

[DefyingFates]

I did a quick write-up of the mythological versions of everyone for those interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/18b4lf4/origin_of_the_new_ocs_setting/

2 minutes ago, Lemmy said:

Ratatoskr looks like an old fashioned nurse, old fashioned enough that maid is part of her job.

Hraesvelger seems focused on surgical tools, maybe more an the examination side.

I imagine Nidhoggr fills a chemist role, but focusing on anything other than the painted on clothes is difficult.

That they represent different types of medical aid is pretty cool and fits their role as "Helping Hands", thank you!

10 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Anyway, I find it curious they turned the tree into its own sub-realm. But I suppose it helps to prolong the time before Asgard I guess.

Right, but it's a good choice for sub-realm given what it is.

18 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I think it's lame and objectively bad that Ratatoskr fell victim to the gender-bend and isn't a male. It's gonna be yet another slog of a book with even more awful writing and bad pacing where the one singular new male OC dies, I'm sure.

Yeah... but hey, Hrid is still alive and... somewhere, so...

I'm curious if Odin is the overarching villain here and if he's trying to split the two kingdoms apart before attacking in Book 9, or if the assassinations are part of some "greater good" thing on Hresvelgr and Nidhoggr's part.

[Sasori]

Its a fame the books seems to have a paralysing fear of males and kills of the few they do introduce. Not only for the variety, but I think I would like the new designs a lot more if the whole routine did't sound so artificial by this point.

[Etrurian emperor]

Nice to see Henriette getting some attention. Its also nice that we see a nice big buff male oc in the book picture. I think that's supposed to be Heimdal. 

Poor Veronica. This is the second time in a row the villains start by beating her up. Given the presence of bounty posters and Alfonse being absent during a it were the party is traveling I guess Alfonse and Veronica start out this book getting kidnapped. It would give Sharena finally a time to shine, something the writers were pretty keen on denying her. 

Less thrilled about the oc. She seems formulaic. Also Ash already had the cute clumsy girl thing covered. 

[Ernivus of Celephaïs]

"For the blood is running still, through the roots of Yggdrasil" guess at least it gives us an excuse to re-listen to the best Brothers of Metal song to date. Again, absolutely terrible how FEH keeps spitting on anyone with a Y chromosome and has pretty much established a 1 to 6 male to female OC ratio. If there's any positives to be found is that we can look forward to more R34 and oh my god I love Jörmungandr as a creepy gyaru type, so might also need to re-listen to Powersnake. Even more awful though is the Awakening children banner: Pants-less Lucina, Ratatoskr and Severa as the premium 5 stars (Severa also has Godlike Reflexes for some god forsaken reason I dunno so maybe premium GLR fodder) while Laurent is memed into a colorless tome demote so barely any inheritance possible unless they for some release an Arcane colorless tome (also yet another silly french pronunciation lol); Íñigo straight to the demote pool also maybe ZeShado will be happy and Vallidar as a red infantry mage just before the Iago refine. Something does feel strange and incorrect in some ways. I hope I can at least get Lucina, perhaps Sylvain or Vyland would like to use Arcane Prima. In short, we've started the new book on almost the worst foot possible.

[Mercakete]

I began writing this in my thoughts on the FEH channel thread, so this is why it starts out the way it does before I decided to put it here instead.

 

Now, onto the thing which matters most for me: story!

Yep, this is why I said "if they're going to Asgard/Ragnarok next." Well, it'll probably be the next book (or the book after) since there's a LOT of buildup leading toward that particular arc, and to make it a big story for Book 10 but 9 is a big number in the plot too ("9 realms") and that would give them 10 to start a whole new arc. Anyway, focusing on Book 8 for now...

World tree, eh? Makes sense that they would focus on Askr and Embla's new relationship for this book if the world tree is the focus. If you guys recall, Askr said that he was born in the world tree (and, in fact, his realm is either right next to the tree or is connected to the tree, especially since we got that fruit from there.) So, this is practically a sequel book to Book 6 (which continued the Askr vs Embla story's focus from Book 1.)

My guess is that Squirrel Girl (I love the concept; it's funny. Of course a squirrel would live in a tree!) was Askr's friend or something, so with the command going out to her and her sisters to destroy Alfonse, Veronica, and Henriette, she couldn't bear it. After all, Askr loved these people, and had even given his direct support/blessing to the Askrans (especially the royal family, ever since the first one.)

We also have the snake and the eagle, and in the background of the key art, there are 2 other characters! The dude may be the stag said to live at the roots of the world tree. His glowing collar reminds me of branched antlers. But the lady with the blue hair on the right has little glowing ears. Not sure which animal she's supposed to be. Snake lady is definitely one to deals in poisons, so it makes sense that she'd try to take out Veronica that way. Have to say, I wonder which god they serve (they look like they're following orders.) And since they're supposed to be focused on healing (according to their group name, anyway) I wonder what changed/who's calling the shots.

By the way, a two-headed snake makes perfect sense for a healer focus. You guys may have seen a symbol in the medical industry of two snakes coiled around each other upwards. In ancient Europe (I believe it was) snakes were associated with healing. This is a really neat play on all that.

Now, focusing on the bird lady, when squirrel girl is falling, two glowy birds fly up from the branch she breaks. One is red, one is green. The red one's wings look just like the bird lady's. But then what's the green version? I'm curious about that since we never see it again in the vid.

I also wonder whose shadow crosses Henriette's wanted poster at the end of the video. Speaking of, I am SO EXCITED that we may finally get to learn more about Henriette! FEH keeps hinting and hinting about her origins. Perhaps she's actually from the world tree? If so, it would make sense how she wound up in Askr, given Askr's association with the world tree. Maybe this is a "Henriette, you should be here, not there. We finally found you." sort of thing?

It really looks like these people are on orders to kill key players in Embla and Askr, perhaps even to end the two countries. After all, Henriette is ruling Askr right now as regent, and Alfonse is the next in line to be king. Plus, Veronica's ascended the Emblian throne. Maybe, since Askr and Embla died, these people are trying to exact revenge? Askr was born from the world tree, so he may be considered a relative of these people, and it wouldn't be a stretch to assume Embla has similar origins and connections.

Since this references Book 6 so heavily, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ash and Elm make appearances, too.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to it! There's a lot of mystery here right now!

[Etrurian emperor]

While it would be a stretch to say I've got high expectations I do expect this book to be a good deal more interesting than the last one.

Like book 5 before it book 7 seemed largely a ''filler'' book that doesn't further the overall story, which is fine but it stands or falls by virtue of its story and villain. To me both of those were lacking so there wasn't much worth to book 7. Book 8 however seems to follow up on the larger story and revolve around the main cast. 

[Mercakete]

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Given the presence of bounty posters and Alfonse being absent during a it were the party is traveling I guess Alfonse and Veronica start out this book getting kidnapped

I was watching the trailer again and you're totally right, especially on this! Poor guy seems like he's really struggling to survive those blind spot attacks. I wonder how long he has to outlast those since his allies do not seem close by. I wonder if he was taken to a sort of "pocket world" or something. Reminds me of birds taking prey to their nests, actually.

Dang, I'm getting more excited for this. XD

Edit: Also, forgot to mention this, but all these new characters from the trailer have the same "gold knots on white" clothing patterns that Askr (and, subsequently, the Askrans) has. ("gold knots" is a thing for a lot of FEH designs, but this particular combination is distinctly Askran.) That really strengthens the connection to Askr (deity) even further. I really feel like Askr (deity) is a a key component to this story. These ladies may even be his sisters or former vassals or something.

Edit the third: Actually, looking again, it's even closer to Askr's design scheme since it also includes a muted brown leather and dark blue, too.

Edit again: If they want Alfonse and Veronica dead, why don't we just hand over Lif and Thrasir? There. Dead Alfonse and Dead Veronica. 😛 (Though, really, a part of me can't help but wonder if this has anything to do with Lif and Thrasir's roles in Asgard. It's just a far-flung thought, though, so even I'm not putting that much stock in this one.)

Edited December 5, 2023 by Mercakete

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

By the way, a two-headed snake makes perfect sense for a healer focus. You guys may have seen a symbol in the medical industry of two snakes coiled around each other upwards. In ancient Europe (I believe it was) snakes were associated with healing. This is a really neat play on all that.

Well, not exactly. It was only one snake: The Rod of Asclepius. Two snakes, Caduceus, is actually more tied to commerce/messengers (hence the wings in its design, since it's tied to Hermes). It's true Caduceus has been used to represent medicine/healing (Three Houses did it with the Caduceus Staff as well), but it's still widely considered as used wrong.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[DefyingFates]

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Snake lady is definitely one to deals in poisons

I think each sister deals with a different type of healthcare? Nidhoggr does medicine, Ratatoskr is a nurse/ general care and I think Hresvelgr uses syringes or scalpels which would make her a surgeon various surgical equipment (e.g. scissors and scalpels).

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

But the lady with the blue hair on the right has little glowing ears. Not sure which animal she's supposed to be.

Maybe Vedrfolnir the hawk, but given the horn I suspect is Gjallarhorn she may be Heimdallr mixed with the unnamed eagle Vedrfolnir sits on instead (instead of Hresvelgr).

Edited December 5, 2023 by DefyingFates

[Mercakete]

37 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, not exactly. It was only one snake: The Rod of Asclepius. Two snakes, Caduceus, is actually more tied to commerce/messengers (hence the wings in its design, since it's tied to Hermes). It's true Caduceus has been used to represent medicine/healing (Three Houses did it with the Caduceus Staff as well), but it's still widely considered as used wrong.

Yeah that. Sorry; was pulling from info I learned years ago, so it was kind of vague in my head. I just remembered the double coil and was all "Was it a snake and something else or was it 2 snakes?" I didn't want to muddy my main point, though, so I kept my message as simple as I could and clear mostly on the points I remembered clearly.

16 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I think each sister deals with a different type of healthcare? Nidhoggr does medicine, Ratatoskr is a nurse/ general care and I think Hresvelgr uses syringes or scalpels which would make her a surgeon.

Maybe Vedrfolnir the hawk, but given the horn I suspect is Gjallarhorn she may be Heimdallr mixed with the unnamed eagle Vedrfolnir sits on instead (instead of Hresvelgr).

Yeah, I saw that being talked about in the FEH Channel thread. I think that's pretty cool. So, Veronica's dealing with her biochemistry being messed with and Alfonse is in danger of being taken apart. Man, this sounds like hospital horror to me when put that way. I'm glad it's in more of a high fantasy package -- makes it easier to appreciate!

Ah, the medical industry... It can either be an absolute savior or the worst nightmare fuel out there. It's all in how it's used by those who practice it.

[Alef Zero]

This may be harsh, but my experience with fate go and feh points to one conclusion - gacha stories are absolute trash and that cannot be remedied due to business model.

Every new chapter/book/etc. is introducing new status que smashing enemies that are always more dangerous then the previous ones.

Every chapter have heroes deal with world, or straight up universe altering events, that grow so large, it's impossible (for me) to take it seriously. We had invasion from another kingdom, then invasion from another kingdom led by unkillable king, then invasion by the queen of death AND THEN an assault by a time-controlling reality warping goddess. How the hell am I supposed to take seriously a story about a bunch of kids fighting reality-shaping goddess AND WINNING? The scale gets so out of hand.

Unbelievable clusterfucks like these happen (too) often in jrpgs, but since these games have to introduce new OP units to sell, they also have to introduce them to the story, which destroys it.

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, Alef Zero said:

Every new chapter/book/etc. is introducing new status que smashing enemies that are always more dangerous then the previous ones

I'm not sure that's the case actually. Nowhere is it stated that Hell is weaker than Freya for instance and after fighting off two gods Eitri seems like a step down. The problem with new villains tends more to be that the team doesn't have the required mighty MacGuffin yet and need to go search for it. I think that's what keeps holding the books back. That every single story is the same story about fleeing from the enemy until the team finds the right mighty MacGuffin. 

[Aedan7479]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The problem with new villains tends more to be that the team doesn't have the required mighty MacGuffin yet and need to go search for it. I think that's what keeps holding the books back. That every single story is the same story about fleeing from the enemy until the team finds the right mighty MacGuffin. 

I agree that that's the problem; most of the time, the only challenge Alfonse and Co. face is getting the McGuffin, rather than conquering the opposing army or simply the journey across the lands. I think Book 2 was the last time the geography actually mattered in terms of travel time, and the opposing army has never mattered in the grand scheme of the individual books.

Books 2 and 3 played with the idea that the order of heroes works away from the frontlines to defeat the enemy, which I like as an idea, but that was four years ago now, and we were only told about Askr's army, we never actually saw it (would've been the best opportunity to incorporate green units).

To be fair, it makes sense that Hel and Freyr couldn't be defeated by conventional means, and in Hel's case, the McGuffin served more purpose in the story that just being the McGuffin that beats the bad guy, but the constant repetition of the McGuffin quest is the problem, which is why the first half of Book 6 was a breath of fresh air.

I hope in Book VIII, they focus on the journey up Yggdrasil; maybe Alfonse, Veronica and Heriette is kidnapped and the others need to hurry to where they all are before they're killed, (with them inevitably being too late to save Heriette), but that could only stretch on for around 8 chapters. But I think I need to see how the book begins before forming my thoughts proper.

[DefyingFates]

4 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

This may be harsh, but my experience with fate go and feh points to one conclusion - gacha stories are absolute trash and that cannot be remedied due to business model.

Aren't some of Fate/GO's stories really popular? While some gacha stories are bad, I think it comes down to how much the devs/ writers care than a problem with the medium itself. Heck, HoYoverse's games are all gachas and they all have good to great plots (you can argue that Genshin and Star Rail feel more like console games ported to mobile but that still leaves HI3 and their older titles). And while I wasn't a fan of them myself, Yoko Taro's mobile games have a lot of fans too.

So FEH could have a great story if the writers cared about more than having an excuse to introduce new OCs and Heroes, it's just that they don't want to. At least some of the Forging Bonds and Paralogues have some nice interactions.

4 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Every new chapter/book/etc. is introducing new status que smashing enemies that are always more dangerous then the previous ones.

As others have said, it's not explicitly stated that each antagonist is stronger than the previous one (though obviously the first three Books raised the stakes) and while the units have gotten powercrept, that sort of power scaling shows up in a lot of stories anyway.

Edit: I forgot what I came here to say! @Mercakete: In hindsight while Ratatoskr looks like a nurse, her role as a messenger (i.e. she travels around a lot) may mean she's more about emergency care or first aid... which would still require her to stick around and look after her patients, so the outfit still makes sense.

Edited December 5, 2023 by DefyingFates

[Mercakete]

Hmm so, while the music grew on me a little, I personally don't think it makes as much of a statement as the last three books' did (for me, anyway.) Books 3, 5, 6, and 7 had the best music, in my opinion. This one fits the theme of the book and all, but it's just not as catchy and/or make as big an impact as the others did. This is just how it affected me, though.

[Lemmy]

on second look, it appears Ratatoskr was more ambushed than clumsy on the tree, as for jumping through stained glass, not sure.

 

Looks like the place she tripped and the place she fell were the same places her counterparts showed up.

 

I could also see the double headed snake as a stethoscope reference if you squint hard enough.

[Aedan7479]

6 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Hmm so, while the music grew on me a little, I personally don't think it makes as much of a statement as the last three books' did (for me, anyway.) Books 3, 5, 6, and 7 had the best music, in my opinion. This one fits the theme of the book and all, but it's just not as catchy and/or make as big an impact as the others did. This is just how it affected me, though.

Yeah, somehow I set my expectations too high. It's still good, not as great as other books, but previous books are a tough act to follow, especially Book VII (in my opinion). Of course, we're yet to hear the boss theme and cutscene music.

The first two chapters have already been uploaded to the wiki, and I still don’t know what to think of it:

I like that the politics from Book 6 are continuing, but I don’t think much of the Healing Hand so far, they just feel like tropes. I'm guessing Laeradr has a grudge against Askr and Embla (the dragons), so he doesn't want their kingdoms to stop fighting, which could be interesting. [spoiler/]

So I'm just waiting to see if things get interesting.

[DefyingFates]

8 hours ago, Lemmy said:

I could also see the double headed snake as a stethoscope reference if you squint hard enough.

Oh, you're right! And Nidhoggr keeps it around her neck too, which also fits really well!

I'm surprised the Book didn't start today, but waiting another isn't such a big deal.

[Mercakete]

17 hours ago, Lemmy said:

on second look, it appears Ratatoskr was more ambushed than clumsy on the tree, as for jumping through stained glass, not sure.

 

Looks like the place she tripped and the place she fell were the same places her counterparts showed up.

 

I could also see the double headed snake as a stethoscope reference if you squint hard enough.

8 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Oh, you're right! And Nidhoggr keeps it around her neck too, which also fits really well!

I'm surprised the Book didn't start today, but waiting another isn't such a big deal.

Ah, right. Good catch.

11 hours ago, Aedan7479 said:

Of course, we're yet to hear the boss theme and cutscene music.

Indeed. I forgot to mention it, but these were my thoughts, too.

 

Edit: New info!

I don't read the datamines, but I do read (off and on) Sharena's Meet the Heroes. It seemed a little premature, but I wound up reading Ratata Multitasker Ratatoskr's entry.

So, not sure if this is a mistranslation or not, but there it says that she was sent to assassinate her older brother. (Could this be Askr himself? Did they not get the memo that he died back in Book 6?) Now, this could be a mistranslation, and it could be that Sharena's supposed to be saying "my" here (especially since Alfonse is depicted in the image next to it) but it could very well be that Askr himself is the one she was sent to assassinate. This is especially since another relation was revealed here: her father is Laeradr, who, according to his description in the "closely associated characters" section, "can be seen as the World-Tree's other self." Askr said he was born from the World-Tree, so that could mean that he's saying that "the World-Tree's other self" is his father (which would, of course, make him Ratatoskr's brother, sharing a father like that.) That said, it does also say that Laeradr was "born from Yggdrasill," which is the same wording Askr used to describe himself. In that case, it would make Askr and Laeradr brothers.

Fun note: When I saw the guy in Book 8's key art, I did briefly wonder if he was Askr's brother. I then dismissed it at the time, though -- not enough info was available yet for such a theory. Now, though, I can't help but wonder if that's Laeradr, and if he really is Askr's brother.

That said, there's another character in the key art I haven't brought up yet: the mask-looking thing at the very top. Who is that depicting? Or is that what the person actually looks like? Is that actually Laeradr, not the guy depicted on the left side of the key art? If he's considered to be the "other self" of the tree, then it makes sense that he would look, well...not as human-esque, you know? Could go either way.

Anyway, at least we got an answer: the one sending the trio of sisters out to kill people is their father, Laeradr.

Personally, I'm really curious about who Laeradr is, and who each person in the key art is, and all their relations to Askr (as possibly Embla, but mostly Askr.) Plus, who exactly is the brother Ratatoskr was sent to kill? Is "brother" meant to be taken literally, or is it more like a general relation? (Of course, how Askr himself relates to all this is key to understanding the rest. For example, when he blessed Lif (the first king of the country of Askr) how did that affect his relationship with Lif's descendants? If Nifl and her conversations with Fjorm are anything to go by, they'd be considered his children, in a way. Does this mean that Askr made Ratatoskr, too, and that Lif/his descendants are the "brother" she was sent to kill?)

There are so many possibilities, I'm looking forward to more info so I can keep working this out. 🙂

Edited December 6, 2023 by Mercakete

[Etrurian emperor]

15 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Personally, I'm really curious about who Laeradr is, and who each person in the key art is, and all their relations to Askr (as possibly Embla, but mostly Askr.) Plus, who exactly is the brother Ratatoskr was sent to kill? Is "brother" meant to be taken literally, or is it more like a general relation? (Of course, how Askr himself relates to all this is key to understanding the rest. For example, when he blessed Lif (the first king of the country of Askr) how did that affect his relationship with Lif's descendants? If Nifl and her conversations with Fjorm are anything to go by, they'd be considered his children, in a way. Does this mean that Askr made Ratatoskr, too, and that Lif/his descendants are the "brother" she was sent to kill?)

Intern-kun did an oopsie. What Sharena meant to say was that Ratatoskr came to assassinate Alfonse, her own brother rather than a sibling of Ratatoskr himself. Kinda like Murarim being Ike's little sister.

[DefyingFates]

29 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Kinda like Murarim being Ike's little sister.

Wait, what?

Anyway, I like the gameplay and story integration in Chapter 1:

Spoiler

just as Alfonse says all the enemies are Emblian and really weak even in Lunatic (they only have one skill apiece) and the final part is against Ratatoskr on her own.

I like how everything was set up and the Askr acknowledgment, but I think FEH's always done a decent job of establishing the stakes: it's everything else that it messes up. It seems the mystery guy and lady from the poster are Ratatoskr's siblings too... so yeah, the guy is doubly dead unless Hrid blesses him.

Also:

Spoiler

I didn't expect Ratatoskr to have a full set of sprites dedicated to her hugging her tail, that's hilarious.

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by DefyingFates