FE4 Noobs unite...

[Seph]

In FE9/10. It's different in FE4.

Really? I could have sworn Julius didn't critical my Shanan several times, I was assuming it based on that.

It's comparable to Julius's chance of hitting him, and only Shanan's got a higher activation - by two points.

It's only 45% chance, come on. It's not something mind blowing like 70%. It's even less than 50%.

[TheEnd]

Really? I could have sworn Julius didn't critical my Shanan several times, I was assuming it based on that.

Either Julius was above 50% hp, or he didn't hit Shanan at all.

It's only 45% chance, come on. It's not something mind blowing like 70%. It's even less than 50%.

A 45% chance is it pretty much it happening half of the time. Not too shabby, if you ask me.

[Fia]

It's only 45% chance, come on. It's not something mind blowing like 70%. It's even less than 50%.

That's why beating Yurius needs luck. We are gambling here.

[Seph]

Either Julius was above 50% hp, or he didn't hit Shanan at all.

No, I must be remembering wrong then.

A 45% chance is it pretty much it happening half of the time. Not too shabby, if you ask me.

Not too shabby eh? When I said not that high, you defended it.

[TheEnd]

Not too shabby eh? When I said not that high, you defended it.

And I still defend it. Chance skill activations don't get much higher than that - be it in FE4, 5, 9 or 10.

Sety needs three criticals to kill Yurius. Half of the time, he'll be attacking thrice. One out of four times, he'll make four attacks. You can almost call it reliable.

Edited December 20, 2008 by TheEnd

[Seph]

And I still defend it. Chance skill activations don't get much higher than that - be it in FE4, 5, 9 or 10.

When someone defends not too high, it means that you're defending it because you think it's high.

But you said not too shabby.

Sety needs three criticals to kill Yurius. Half of the time, he'll be attacking thrice. One out of four times, he'll make four attacks. You can almost call it reliable.

That's not reliable. His critical chance isn't even that high.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Julius

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

Alright, this goes directly to anyone that will keep on topic with this, until a reasonable amount of answers comes through.

Recommended pairings for next time?

Noish X Ayra

Midir X Aideen

Lex X Lachesis

Levin X Fury

Sylvia X Claude

Brigid X Holyn

Tiltyu X Azel

is that so?

[Fia]

Alright, this goes directly to anyone that will keep on topic with this, until a reasonable amount of answers comes through.

Recommended pairings for next time?

Noish X Ayra

Midir X Aideen

Lex X Lachesis

Levin X Fury

Sylvia X Claude

Brigid X Holyn

Tiltyu X Azel

is that so?

Why did you go for Lex/Lachesis and Azel/Tiltyu again for the next time?

Swap their pairings a little.

Azel/Lachesis, Lex/Tiltyu, Levin/Sylvia (if you dare, though Holsety will be wasted), and Claude/Fury.

[TheEnd]

When someone defends not too high, it means that you're defending it because you think it's high.

But you said not too shabby.

Spoiler:

English isn't my mother tongue, so stop looking for nuances.

That's not reliable. His critical chance isn't even that high.

Oh?

37% due to skill.

20% if Fee's beside him (and since she's got mobility, that isn't too hard to do).

+1-50% for each Holsety kill over 50.

[Seph]

Spoiler: English isn't my mother tongue, so stop looking for nuances.

That's a matter of logic, not a matter of language skill.

37% due to skill.

20% if Fee's beside him (and since she's got mobility, that isn't too hard to do).

+1-50% for each Holsety kill over 50.

37% due to skill?

You gave yourself.. so many requirements.

Magic Ring.

Abuse for 50+ kill Holsety.

A great supply of cash to repair Holsety several times.

Lovers and charisma bonus.

Julius must miss.

Sety must use Continue.

Sety must critical 3 times.

How do you expect me to take that seriously? That is seriously unfair to Julius, as well.

The chance of all of those happening is quite low.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Julius

[Fia]

How do you expect me to take that seriously? That is seriously unfair to Julius, as well.

THERE IS SOMETHING AS FAIR FROM YURIUS?

He got the deadliest weapon ever! We are ignoring Narga for now, since it's Chapter 10 after all.

I think it was justified if you boost up a certain character with Rings and raised up the kill of their best weapon if you are going to deal with him. =E

[Seph]

I think it was justified if you boost up a certain character with Rings and raised up the kill of their best weapon if you are going to deal with him. =E

Weeeeeeeeeeelll, Julius has a single weapon and a Leg Ring which doesn't help raw combat.

Sety has all of these:

Magic Ring.

Abuse for 50+ kill Holsety.

A great supply of cash to repair Holsety several times.

Lovers and charisma bonus.

Julius must miss.

Sety must use Continue.

Sety must critical 3 times.

[TheEnd]

That's a matter of logic, not a matter of language skill.

You're making it sound like I'm contradicting myself. I'm not.

37% due to skill?

You gave yourself.. so many requirements.

Magic Ring.

Abuse for 50+ kill Holsety.

A great supply of cash to repair Holsety several times.

Lovers and charisma bonus.

Julius must miss.

Sety must use Continue.

Sety must critical 3 times.

How do you expect me to take that seriously? That is seriously unfair to Julius, as well.

The chance of all of those happening is quite low.

Wait right there.

First, it isn't absurd to think that Sety, with his 50% skill growth, will have capped skill (27). Or, at least, gotten near that. Yes, I'm talking about level 30, because hurr, you aren't thinking about taking on Yurius of all people at a lower level, right? Also, Holsety = +10 skill = +10% crit.

Second, there are two magic rings for... four, five candidates? Arthur, Tinny, Sety, Rana, Yuria. Giving it to Sety isn't such a far-fetched decision - also, it allows Sety to silence Ishtar, if he doesn't get RNG raped.

Third, I didn't mention lovers (because really, making Sety fall in love isn't exactly easy) or Charisma. The terrain of that battle is rough, after all. I mentioned Fee - who, by the way, has superb mobility, being a flying unit and all. (For the record, I didn't need Fee to solo Yurius - but then again, I had 100* Holsety).

Fourth, money shouldn't be an issue for Sety - or for Levin. They will clear arenas with simple wind magic, without fail. And they get Elwing/Lightning!

Fifth, OBVIOUSLY it's a gamble. If you're going the optimal way, you're clearly going to take down Ishtar, not Yurius. We're talking about a lot of 50-50 cases here: Yurius missing is a 50% chance (higher if you bring people with Charisma, Celice... but realistically, you can't really afford doing that). Same for Continue triggering (although, in a optimal circumstance, he'll only need trigger it once out of two tries). If you don't have a 50*+ Holsety and bring Fee along, his critical chance will be around 60%.

TL;DR: Doable. Sety can kill Chapter 10!Yurius, unlike happens in the Epilogue (where he's utterly unable to deal damage) or with Alvis (who basically one-hits Sety).

[Fia]

Weeeeeeeeeeelll, Julius has a single weapon and a Leg Ring which doesn't help raw combat.

Sety has all of these:

Magic Ring.

Abuse for 50+ kill Holsety.

A great supply of cash to repair Holsety several times.

Lovers and charisma bonus.

Julius must miss.

Sety must use Continue.

Sety must critical 3 times.

One word: LOPTOUS.

All of those Sety gets hardly means anything/equals in front of THAT TOME.

And Yurius + Leg Ring + Loptous = Loptous on HORSE! DAMN SCARY! >_<

[Seph]

First, it isn't absurd to think that Sety, with his 50% skill growth, will have capped skill (27). Or, at least, gotten near that. Yes, I'm talking about level 30, because hurr, you aren't thinking about taking on Yurius of all people at a lower level, right? Also, Holsety = +10 skill = +10% crit.

Sety averages 26 skill.

Second, there are two magic rings for... four, five candidates? Arthur, Tinny, Sety, Rana, Yuria. Giving it to Sety isn't such a far-fetched decision - also, it allows Sety to silence Ishtar, if he doesn't get RNG raped.

Arthur and Tinny will need it more so that they can hurt more when they critical.

Sety doesn't need it because he kills everything anyway.

Rana needs it for better healing. Considering that Mideel is the most used pairing, she will not have very high magic.

Julia probably doesn't need it.

So that's the Magic Ring argument out the window.

Third, I didn't mention lovers (because really, making Sety fall in love isn't exactly easy) or Charisma. The terrain of that battle is rough, after all. I mentioned Fee - who, by the way, has superb mobility, being a flying unit and all. (For the record, I didn't need Fee to solo Yurius - but then again, I had 100* Holsety).

That was my bad really, by lover I meant sibling bonus.

But Sety will have a harder time without them.

Fourth, money shouldn't be an issue for Sety - or for Levin. They will clear arenas with simple wind magic, without fail. And they get Elwing/Lightning!

That doesn't really matter. You need to use Holsety like 150-200 times? That costs 150000-200000 gold. Arenas don't give that much cash by themselves. And as you said Sety won't get cash from a lover since he doesn't make one easily. He'll need the assistance of a thief.

Math time.

You get 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 = 28000 cash in one chapter from an Arena. You figure out the rest.

Fifth, OBVIOUSLY it's a gamble. If you're going the optimal way, you're clearly going to take down Ishtar, not Yurius. We're talking about a lot of 50-50 cases here: Yurius missing is a 50% chance (higher if you bring people with Charisma, Celice... but realistically, you can't really afford doing that). Same for Continue triggering (although, in a optimal circumstance, he'll only need trigger it once out of two tries). If you don't have a 50*+ Holsety and bring Fee along, his critical chance will be around 60%.

The chances of Julius missing, Sety criticalling three times and using Continue and doing all of that are pretty low, admit it.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Julius

[TheEnd]

Sety averages 26 skill.

SO FAR FROM 27 ISN'T IT.

Arthur and Tinny will need it more so that they can hurt more when they critical.

Sety doesn't need it because he kills everything anyway.

Rana needs it for better healing. Considering that Mideel is the most used pairing, she will not have very high magic.

Julia probably doesn't need it.

So that's the Magic Ring argument out the window.

Choices. I don't know if you noticed, but you don't need to go the optimal way to beat Seisen.

That was my bad really, by lover I meant sibling bonus.

But Sety will have a harder time without them.

Of course Sety will have a harder time without them. Or do you think +50% charisma bonus (Delmud/Nanna/Laylea/Celice) would make no difference whatsoever? And even without them, Sety's hit is ~80%, and Yurius's ~50%.

That doesn't really matter. You need to use Holsety like 150-200 times? That costs 150000-200000 gold. Arenas don't give that much cash by themselves. And as you said Sety won't get cash from a lover since he doesn't make one easily. He'll need the assistance of a thief.

And you have a thief!

The chances of Julius missing, Sety criticalling three times and using Continue and doing all of that are pretty low, admit it.

Not very high, but not THAT low either.

Remember, Yurius only needs to miss if Sety criticals him twice before he can counter-attack. So, if he activates Continue only on his second attack, Yurius's attack is meaningless. And if you're abusing, you can get Sety's critical rate to pretty much 100%, too.

Also, you can save at every turn in FE4 anyway, so some amount of RNG abuse is clearly fine.

Edited December 20, 2008 by TheEnd

[Seph]

Choices. I don't know if you noticed, but you don't need to go the optimal way to beat Seisen.

Then why the hell did you mention which characters need it more? Jesus.

And you have a thief!

Well isn't that nice, that thief can't support anyone else!

Sety gets 28000 cash per chapter. Not enough to repair Holsety. And by letting him get all the kills, your other units won't be getting exp.

Not even 4 chapters are enough to cover all the needs of Holsety. You'll need a thief, but that thief can't even go to the frontlines much.

Of course Sety will have a harder time without them. Or do you think +50% charisma bonus (Delmud/Nanna/Laylea/Celice) would make no difference whatsoever? And even without them, Sety's hit is ~80%, and Yurius's ~50%.

More requirements.

You should make Lachesis have a lover and not pair up Sylvia. Fun.

Not very high, but not THAT low either.

Remember, Yurius only needs to miss if Sety criticals him twice before he can counter-attack. So, if he activates Continue only on his second attack, Yurius's attack is meaningless. And if you're abusing, you can get Sety's critical rate to pretty much 100%, too.

Also, you can save at every turn in FE4 anyway, so some amount of RNG abuse is clearly fine.

That little paragraph depends on even MORE luck.

I'm not denying the fact that Sety can solo Julius. I am saying that the chance is very slim (not only are you giving yourself over 9000 requirements you're also explaining how lucky you need to get), and it hurts the efficiency of your other units when you do it.

[Fia]

Then why the hell did you mention which characters need it more? Jesus.

It's a MAGIC Ring, who else to get it if not for MAGIC users?

Leaf? Leaf is better of with weapons thank you very much.

Courple? He come so late, nuff said.

Rana? You have Recover Staff for a reason.

So that's left 4 candidates for 2 Magic Ring. Feel free to choose any of them then.

[Seph]

Other characters need it much more than Sety.

[Fia]

Other characters need it much more than Sety.

But if you can deal more damage with Holsety, why not?

The only person who desperately needs a magic ring is probably Arthur though, due his 25 cap crap. But you have another spare ring...why don't you give it to Sety then?

FE4 is easy enough that making small sacrifices won't change/hurt your effectiveness.

[TheEnd]

Then why the hell did you mention which characters need it more? Jesus.

I mentioned the other characters that CAN USE IT. Unlike happens with the Power Ring, for instance, there aren't many units that can make effective use of the magic ring at all. Sometimes I just leave Tinny, Arthur and/or Rana in the sidelines, for instance; in that case, does it sound really absurd that Sety is getting a magic ring?

Well isn't that nice, that thief can't support anyone else!

Sety gets 28000 cash per chapter. Not enough to repair Holsety. And by letting him get all the kills, your other units won't be getting exp.

Not even 4 chapters are enough to cover all the needs of Holsety. You'll need a thief, but that thief can't even go to the frontlines much.

Now, that depends on how you've paired Bridget, and whether you've babied Patty to Thief Fighter (which isn't a bad class, really) or not.

More requirements.

You should make Lachesis have a lover and not pair up Sylvia. Fun.

Are you bothering to read at all? I'm not considering Charisma bonuses. If I were, then I'd probably be talking about how Sety can defeat Alvis, instead (I knew I should have tried it out for experiment's sake...). Adding max Charisma bonuses (btw? Killing off Sylvia isn't that a bad idea after all) can mean Yurius getting a 0-10% hit. But that would be a ludicruous scene, to say the least.

That little paragraph depends on even MORE luck.

I'm not denying the fact that Sety can solo Julius. I am saying that the chance is very slim (not only are you giving yourself over 9000 requirements you're also explaining how lucky you need to get), and it hurts the efficiency of your other units when you do it.

How does that require even MORE luck? So far, we've been considering that Sety has to dodge Yurius's attack - however, if he doesn't critical the dark prince into red zone before his counterattack, he won't even need to dodge it at all!

In a regular playthrough, killing Ishtar is a much safer route. Killing Yurius is a luxury.

It doesn't require as much luck as you're claiming it does - although I do admit that it requires a bit of abusing (you just can't get a 100-kill weapon playing normally, after all) and some favoritism. Yurius is one of Sety's natural enemies - a full-stated opponent with elemental advantage, max mdef and half attack hacks. It wouldn't be right if you could just casually blow him away with Holsety.

[Seph]

I mentioned the other characters that CAN USE IT. Unlike happens with the Power Ring, for instance, there aren't many units that can make effective use of the magic ring at all. Sometimes I just leave Tinny, Arthur and/or Rana in the sidelines, for instance; in that case, does it sound really absurd that Sety is getting a magic ring?

I was asking why you mentioned it. You completely ignored my question.

Now, that depends on how you've paired Bridget, and whether you've babied Patty to Thief Fighter (which isn't a bad class, really) or not.

More requirements. Way to go minimizing your chances.

Are you bothering to read at all? I'm not considering Charisma bonuses. If I were, then I'd probably be talking about how Sety can defeat Alvis, instead (I knew I should have tried it out for experiment's sake...). Adding max Charisma bonuses (btw? Killing off Sylvia isn't that a bad idea after all) can mean Yurius getting a 0-10% hit. But that would be a ludicruous scene, to say the least.

Let's see, now you have to kill off Sylvia and pair up Lachesis and bring Fee close to him..

Seriously, trying to prepare a whole game just so Sety can beat Julius in chapter 10. What a waste of time. You have to abuse Holsety and your thief like a retard, you have to choose the children specifically, your other units have to be weak in order for Sety to have a high amount of kills..

How does that require even MORE luck? So far, we've been considering that Sety has to dodge Yurius's attack - however, if he doesn't critical the dark prince into red zone before his counterattack, he won't even need to dodge it at all!

In a regular playthrough, killing Ishtar is a much safer route. Killing Yurius is a luxury.

It doesn't require as much luck as you're claiming it does - although I do admit that it requires a bit of abusing (you just can't get a 100-kill weapon playing normally, after all) and some favoritism. Yurius is one of Sety's natural enemies - a full-stated opponent with elemental advantage, max mdef and half attack hacks. It wouldn't be right if you could just casually blow him away with Holsety.

Let's see why you need to get lucky:

- Julius needs to miss

- You need to critical him 3 times

- You need to use Continue

That's way too luck dependent.

Remember, Yurius only needs to miss if Sety criticals him twice before he can counter-attack. So, if he activates Continue only on his second attack, Yurius's attack is meaningless. And if you're abusing, you can get Sety's critical rate to pretty much 100%, too.

That's luck dependent because you need to not activate continue first and critical at the same time, then on the next attack you need to activate continue and critical.. not cool in a one round.

So many things you have to do in a single turn, it's just way too luck dependent and far from reliable.

A bit of abusing? Fuck off right there. You need a HUGE amount of abusing.

You also need plenty of favoritism since you're giving him over 9000 kills and cash from your thief.

Beating Sety with Julius is all about abuse, favoritism and luck. And the chances of Julius beating Sety are much higher, so your point is for naught.

[TheEnd]

Since you seem to be basing off 99% of your arguments on "lol, the rest of your army will be lv1 retard":

Learn to boss abuse.

That's all.

Edited December 20, 2008 by TheEnd

[Mekkah]

Man, and I thought I had hijacked this thread before....

[TheEnd]

Man, and I thought I had hijacked this thread before....

I'm just balancing things out.

(After all, you talk about regular/ranked gameplay, and I talk about abusive/casual gameplay. +1 -1 = 0)