What if every game had Fates style capturing?

[Jotari]

It's a thought that struck me as playing Thracia, which also has the capture mechanic. What if, instead of just vanishing as if they had died, you could recruit all those captured enemies you can take. The Capture feature of Fates is justifiably criticized for being locked behind two specific units and being ridiculous in how you convince characters to change their loyalties by giving them potatoes, but the actual ability to capture and use enemy units is a popular one, I think. Especially in Conquest where you can get units like Haitaka and Rallyman. So, what if Kaga got this idea back in 1990 and it was a baked in feature of the series from the start. Everything else is the same, you can just recruit enemy units if you jump through some hoops (plot relevant and non sentient enemies exempting).

I, of course, immediately realized after having this thought how it would destroy Thracia's balancing. Some of those early game bosses are probably fit to take on Veld already, and it'd mean very easy access to units with high staff ranks. But...it'd be the kind of balance destroying that could be hilariously fun to think about. What enemy units from the series would you like to be capturable for either narrative or gameplay reasons if this was inexplicably injected into every game and changing nothing else?

For Binding Blade, Rutger would suddenly have a challenge for his boss killing status as Henning  becomes recruitable. For Shadow Dragon you could slowly built up an absolute fleet of Ballista, which would be hilarious (though probably still limited by weapon access since you don't get to keep enemy weapons in Fates, though you do in Thracia). One funny one, going back to Thracia, would be the Berserker in the B Route Forest map who can inexplicably use Pugi. For Genealogy it'd be weird for breaking the unit cap, but I'd absolutely take it to kidnap Baron's to use Armoured Mage (I'll briefly indulge my fantasy and ignore the fact they'd never be able to reach any enemies because Genealogy Maps).

[Acacia Sgt]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's a thought that struck me as playing Thracia, which also has the capture mechanic. What if, instead of just vanishing as if they had died, you could recruit all those captured enemies you can take. The Capture feature of Fates is justifiably criticized for being locked behind two specific units and being ridiculous in how you convince characters to change their loyalties by giving them potatoes, but the actual ability to capture and use enemy units is a popular one, I think. Especially in Conquest where you can get units like Haitaka and Rallyman. So, what if Kaga got this idea back in 1990 and it was a baked in feature of the series from the start. Everything else is the same, you can just recruit enemy units if you jump through some hoops (plot relevant and non sentient enemies exempting).

Well, Kaga did already did this. Capturing is how you recruit Lifis and Salem. Misha too, but you must also have her talk with Karin first, so it's more complex than just capture (also since, being mounted, you must use a Sleep Staff on Misha before you can even capture her). And also Trewd, but there are alternative ways to recruit him, so it's a partial count.

Anyway, the idea is certainly interesting.

Edited March 30 by Acacia Sgt

[Magenta Fantasies]

Capturing in Fates was a very fun game mechanic and I liked its implementation better than Thracia’s. Getting to keep and use enemies you fought is such a cool concept. However, I almost never use it because I have plenty of units already (including many I already don’t have time to raise or deployment slots to use.) I’d rather use characters I like and build supports between them. Not having supports is a deal breaker, so I virtually never use Einherjar or captured units.

If games like Shadow Dragon (no supports,) Radiant Dawn (minimal supports,) New Mystery and Shadows of Valentia (relatively few supports,) and the GBA games (supports are a pain in the neck to get) had enemy capturing as a game mechanic, I would absolutely use it.

[Jotari]

28 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, Kaga did already did this. Capturing is how you recruit Lifis and Salem. Misha too, but you must also have her talk with Karin first, so it's more complex than just capture (also since, being mounted, you must use a Sleep Staff on Misha before you can even capture her). And also Trewd, but there are alternative ways to recruit him, so it's a partial count.

Anyway, the idea is certainly interesting.

Yes, but, counter point, I'm not free to capture and use Kempf, therefore it's not the same thing at all...and I want to capture and play the glory that is Kempf.

23 minutes ago, Magenta Fantasies said:

Capturing in Fates was a very fun game mechanic and I liked its implementation better than Thracia’s. Getting to keep and use enemies you fought is such a cool concept. However, I almost never use it because I have plenty of units already (including many I already don’t have time to raise or deployment slots to use.) I’d rather use characters I like and build supports between them. Not having supports is a deal breaker, so I virtually never use Einherjar or captured units.

If games like Shadow Dragon (no supports,) Radiant Dawn (minimal supports,) New Mystery and Shadows of Valentia (relatively few supports,) and the GBA games (supports are a pain in the neck to get) had enemy capturing as a game mechanic, I would absolutely use it.

I feel like, even if they didn't want to actively write supports, they at least should have given an auto support to the Bandit Twins in Fates, if no other bosses.

[X-Naut]

One important facet is who gets to capture. Thracia 776 let everyone without a bowlock capture, but Fates made it the personal skill of two specific units. If you're going full Fates then that has a profound impact on how useful the feature actually is. Also worth noting is that Fates capture sends units to Box 1 of the PC a holding cell and doesn't let you keep weapons, although part of this is because of the no durability system.

While bosses might come to mind because of faces, I think the generics are the main prize. Fates does not let you capture bosses indiscriminately and you can't nab monsters or their equivalents, but generics are otherwise fair game. This has substantial repercussions on Hard+ where enemies get significant stat bonuses, including higher ranks in (3)DSFE. Some noteworthy prizes include the Chapter 7 Wyvern Riders in Binding Blade, H5 Chapter 3 Fighters in Shadow Dragon if those are available, and practically every promoted enemy in the early midgame.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Sure, if we can sell the new recruits into Slavery to pad our budget. I´m all for it. They wouldn´t be trustworthy anyway.

Hyman in SD H5 would probably be pretty strong, albeit I dunno his growths/if the enemies have any. Could also capture Camus and whip him until he´ll live his love for Nyna, goddamnitall.

Kotaro would probably be THE Ninja of CQ. Oh yeah, the Ice tribe guy (Kilma?) from chapter 8 would go hard as well I wager.

 

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

convince characters to change their loyalties by giving them potatoes

You underestimate the taters power. Its optimal for tranportation and in case of emergency can be used as projectile. Boiled potato? That shit will outlive you and your entire extended family.

All hail POTATO!

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Kotaro would probably be THE Ninja of CQ. Oh yeah, the Ice tribe guy (Kilma?) from chapter 8 would go hard as well I wager.

Problem is, they're already from games with Fates style capture and are considered too plot relevant to be captured.

17 minutes ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

You underestimate the taters power. Its optimal for tranportation and in case of emergency can be used as projectile. Boiled potato? That shit will outlive you and your entire extended family.

All hail POTATO!

...You know I'm bone fide Irish, right?

[lenticular]

My first thought would be to use it to pick up extra laguz in Tellius. Capturing Seeker or on of his crew would actually give us a playable Raven in PoR. Or maybe have the Dawn Brigade capture a Tiger from Pain and Agony's map to give them some extra bulk (though that is immediately before we get Volug, oh well). Capturing and recruiting Kezhda would also be pretty hilarious, if not actually useful.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 3/30/2024 at 5:24 PM, Jotari said:

Problem is, they're already from games with Fates style capture and are considered too plot relevant to be captured.

I dunno the script for Kotaro, but I don´t see why we shouldn´t be able to add a rat to our troops... and for Kilma, you already get his daughter, so go get the King too!

On 3/30/2024 at 5:24 PM, Jotari said:

...You know I'm bone fide Irish, right?

No? What the Irish got to do with this? And what is a Bona Fide Irish?

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

I dunno the script for Kotaro, but I don´t see why we shouldn´t be able to add a rat to our troops... and for Kilma, you already get his daughter, so go get the King too!

No? What the Irish got to do with this? And what is a Bona Fide Irish?

The Irish has to do with potato worship, and bona fide means genuine.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Meant to answer this one, and since it's still on the front page -

The thought of capturing Kishuna, and bringing him to the Endgame to trivialize Nergal, is pretty ludicrous.

On 3/30/2024 at 12:43 PM, lenticular said:

My first thought would be to use it to pick up extra laguz in Tellius. Capturing Seeker or on of his crew would actually give us a playable Raven in PoR. Or maybe have the Dawn Brigade capture a Tiger from Pain and Agony's map to give them some extra bulk (though that is immediately before we get Volug, oh well). Capturing and recruiting Kezhda would also be pretty hilarious, if not actually useful.

Friendship ended with Volug, now Generic Tiger is my best friend.

(It's honestly really funny just how dramatically a no-name Beast Laguz would blow Meg out of the water. Only in gameplay, of course - Meg has the market cornered in design and personality).

On the flip side, getting one of the Fire Mages in the following chapter could help once Part III comes along.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Meant to answer this one, and since it's still on the front page -

The thought of capturing Kishuna, and bringing him to the Endgame to trivialize Nergal, is pretty ludicrous.

Friendship ended with Volug, now Generic Tiger is my best friend.

(It's honestly really funny just how dramatically a no-name Beast Laguz would blow Meg out of the water. Only in gameplay, of course - Meg has the market cornered in design and personality).

On the flip side, getting one of the Fire Mages in the following chapter could help once Part III comes along.

That  they utterly failed to give the team that fights all the beast laguz even one unit capable of using fire attacks is just laughably cruel. It's like, why even have a mechanic if you're going to cuck it like that. I'm actually adding it up in my head now and I think the only time the player can ever make use of beast effective fire tomes is in the Izuka chapter. You don't fight any beasts after Tormod shows up in Part 1, none in Part 2 and Ike never fights beasts in part 2.

Edited July 3 by Jotari

[lenticular]

38 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That  they utterly failed to give the team that fights all the beast laguz even one unit capable of using fire attacks is just laughably cruel. It's like, why even have a mechanic if you're going to cuck it like that. I'm actually adding it up in my head now and I think the only time the player can ever make use of beast effective fire times is in the Izuka chapter. You don't fight any beasts after Tormod shows up in Part 1, none in Part 2 and Ike never fights beasts in part 2.

Technically, there are the times when you control Ike's group against Micaiah's group and could theoretically use fire magic against Volug and/or Nailah. Except this is absolutely the most technical of technicalities, and is unlikely to be relevant in any sort of real playthrough.

Honestly, I've never noticed before how neutered that particular interaction is, but yeah, it is pretty silly. At least you can (potentially) have Beastfoe for all but the first encounter, so you don't have to do without effective damage entirely.