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What Happened to Marth's Wikipedia Page?


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6 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's no doubt the first bias hitting me, but I prefer Marth more. Mars being the god of war is precisely why I don't like it as his name. Since Marth doesn't enjoy war. He gets the job done but he's ultimately too kind hearted for such a name.

I don't see him as exhibiting any advanced level of kindness. Either in the original script or its remakes. Certainly not on the same level as Corrin who canonically defeated the Hoshidan army without taking a single life. I think Marth is such a non-descript famicom era character that they have to say something to make him seem unique among his higher-word-count peers.

The one interaction that comes to mind is Marth busting a child trafficking ring without needing to be told to do so in chapter 11, but then again it's an optional scene and the slave runner was more intimidated by the threat of the army than Marth himself. Marth just had to show up, and while his decision not to murder the freak is perhaps amicable, he also decides to let him leave as if he had learned his lesson. Kindness, huh. The same kindness that lets General Lang get away with the Grustian brats in the sequel. Don't fret over Lorenz's dying wish, Prince Marth. That man may have disobeyed his orders in the name of your cause years ago, but see that Macedon is ripe for the taking!

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5 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I don't see him as exhibiting any advanced level of kindness. Either in the original script or its remakes. Certainly not on the same level as Corrin who canonically defeated the Hoshidan army without taking a single life. I think Marth is such a non-descript famicom era character that they have to say something to make him seem unique among his higher-word-count peers.

The one interaction that comes to mind is Marth busting a child trafficking ring without needing to be told to do so in chapter 11, but then again it's an optional scene and the slave runner was more intimidated by the threat of the army than Marth himself. Marth just had to show up, and while his decision not to murder the freak is perhaps amicable, he also decides to let him leave as if he had learned his lesson. Kindness, huh. The same kindness that lets General Lang get away with the Grustian brats in the sequel. Don't fret over Lorenz's dying wish, Prince Marth. That man may have disobeyed his orders in the name of your cause years ago, but see that Macedon is ripe for the taking!

Counter point, the guy looks like this

Portrait_marth_fe01.png

Looks less like a god if war and more like a mopey teenager. His characterization in the first game alone is also a bit irrelevant given his name wasn't localized the until after Mystery of the Emblem. If you want to see what the perception of his character was even back then, the OVA where he's actually called Marth displays it pretty well.

Edited by Jotari
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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Counter point, the guy looks like this

Portrait_marth_fe01.png

Looks less like a god if war and more like a mopey teenager. His characterization in the first game alone is also a bit irrelevant given his name wasn't localized the until after Mystery of the Emblem. If you want to see what the perception of his character was even back then, the OVA where he's actually called Marth displays it pretty well.

You should watch the OVA again. That's where they localized his name correctly as Mars

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37 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

You should watch the OVA again. That's where they localized his name correctly as Mars

That's a typo. I actually meant to say Mars XD hence why I brought up then calling him anything at all.

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20 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'd still say it could just be his Japanese page translated. It would certainly look hypocritical if that one can stay but a version translated to English does not.

Funnily enough, his Spanish page has even less, yet it's still up.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marth_(Fire_Emblem)

Cukie kind of covered it already, but English (/German) Wikipedia are way stricter than most other wikis.  For example stuff like what exactly Marth's Amiibo unlocks (seen in the JP article) is considered "Gamecruft" on English Wikipedia and wouldn't merely "not count" for notability, but would actively get deleted.  Out of scope.

Other language wikis are generally desperate for editors, often lacking critical mass, so are much more tolerant of fringier stuff - not just video games, but stuff like "random local businesses / attractions" too.  (I certainly got interested in editing Wikipedia originally to add video game trivia type stuff, much of which has sadly been lost since, as they tightened their standards in 2008-2011 or so.)  There's certainly an alternate history where English Wikipedia just had all of what's now Fandom in it too, with like level walkthroughs & item lists & stuff, but it opted to try to keep it more classically encyclopedia-y.  So literary criticism, yes, Amiibo unlocks, no.

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I don't see him as exhibiting any advanced level of kindness. Either in the original script or its remakes.

I can't comment on the original script (although NES size limitations mean that a lot of the plot is going to lurk in instruction manuals in the era anyway), but I'm not so sure about the remakes.  FE11, maybe, but FE11's script is also completely threadbare, so hard to know for sure.  FE12, though, see https://wiki.serenesforest.net/index.php/Prologue_III:_Training_(Script) 

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Jagen:
Hmph. Don't tell me you're still in the dark about Prince Marth's method of fighting during the War of Shadows?

Chris:
No, this I know. The League led by Prince Marth didn't just consist of Altea: It went beyond the frontiers of nationality, and included friend and foe alike...

Jagen:
Yes. Our victory was not just the accomplishment of us Altean knights. Overcoming status and position; being able to fight together as equals... That is how Prince Marth fights. No matter when an ally came to our side, they could instantly join the battle with us. That is also a necessary skill for an Altean knight.

This isn't quite synonymous with "kindness", sure, but it's very explicit that Marth is a seek-allies even among his enemies type.  It certainly isn't portrayed as a cynical "we need warm bodies to win the war," either (you get that kind of dialogue when getting the generic recruits only).

Of course, it's not like actual Roman Mars was a psychopath, but I think he gets swept up with Ares in casual understandings of old mythology, who IS a jerk.

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  • 1 month later...

I took a peak at some of the other pages for other FE characters, like Marianne and Dorothea (yes, they each have one), and they have WAY less on there than Marth. If those get to stay, Marth's absolutely should. I'd be convinced it's anti-Marth bias if it's taken down again.

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2 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I took a peak at some of the other pages for other FE characters, like Marianne and Dorothea (yes, they each have one), and they have WAY less on there than Marth. If those get to stay, Marth's absolutely should. I'd be convinced it's anti-Marth bias if it's taken down again.

As the person who wrote a fair few FE characters on Wikipedia, while Marth definitely has more content, the reception section carries a lot more weight in determining notability, though in my opinion, the sheer volume of dev and creation info about Marth makes up for Marth having a little lighter of reception.

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Maybe a bit of a weird question, but do we actually know if Kaga created Marth? He was the scenario head, but I find it conceivable that someone else could have actually come up with the design and rough character.

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12 hours ago, Jotari said:

Maybe a bit of a weird question, but do we actually know if Kaga created Marth? He was the scenario head, but I find it conceivable that someone else could have actually come up with the design and rough character.

Well I reckon I can't speak to that, as I didn't really write any of that part. For what it's worth, I don't think the attached citation specifically claims that Kaga created him, just Kaga discussing Marth's role as a protagonist.

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