OMG it's a tier list

[Interceptor]

Of course at this point I know someone is going to tell me, "BUT SMASH EVERYONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU, THEREFORE YOU'RE WRONG."

Don't be silly, smash. You're not wrong because nobody is agreeing with you, you're wrong because your points are weak and poorly supported. The fact that people disagree with you is a symptom of being wrong, not the cause or the proof of it. Canary in the coal mine, so to speak.

And frankly, I don't give a shit if people like narga or int disagree with me. I'm making these posts for the other people like Raven and Jonathan. If I can convince them, then I'll have accomplished my mission.

So your strategy here: rather than engage the strongest and/or most well-spoken critics of your arguments, you instead choose to pick off someone who has a tendency to repeatedly make factual errors. I guess this is victory for someone who sees the tier list as nothing more than a horse-race of who wins and who loses.

Not like appeal to popularity means anything anyway. When Reikken first started his "jeigans like Titania leeching exp is a load of crap" arguments, didn't everyone disagree with him until we realized he was right?

This is not something that I'd expect to hear from someone who hides behind accusations of logical fallacy at every opportunity. It is, however, something I'd expect to hear from a hypocrite, so maybe I just answered my own question.

The Reikken of your example had the advantage of being correct, having command of game mechanics, and the ability to cogently and concisely argue his position. Senator, you are no Reikken. It's an unfortunate coincidence that both 1) a complicated concept that goes against conventional wisdom, and 2) arguments that are completely ass-wrong, will both generate mass disagreement.

Inevitably you are going to have the likes of a Birther think that they are cut from the same cloth as a Galileo.

Eh? By who? You and smash? I hardly call that a "decided" change. I said it before, but I have always seen Tanith as a Mid tier character, not Lower Mid.

I think that the tier difference between the two of them requires either 1) an explanation or 2) an adjustment. Over the course of arguments, I've been convinced that there is a problem, here. Manith does not seem like he's two tiers better than Sigrun, when you compare their martial stats and potential.

PS: Lucia is better than people give her credit for.

[grandjackal]

A bit too solid an argument there, especially since a bit of my numbers were wrong. I concede, though couple things I just wanna clear up.

Wtf? No she won't. Even with your BEXP stats, she'd only reach 28.75 Str by 20/20. That's barely better than Sothe, and we all know how awesome he is Endgame.

Difference is Sothe has no brave weapon to work with, and his weapon type is weaker. If you're quadding, let's review. Brave sword is 9 Mt, raising it to 37. Give it a blood tide, that's 42. Auras have 90 HP and 30 Def. That's 12 damage. 12x4=48. 48x2>90. 2RKO, no supports. Only a blood tide, which is by no stretch a crime. Hell, if she has an offense boosting support, she can get away with a bit of screwage.

Considering Caineghis needs an A support specifically with an offense boosting support to do any better, while Boyd not only needs 40STR, but 34 AS for both to ORKO an aura, 2RKOing is perfectly ok.

It's awesome that both can use Swords. Tanith can't use the Alondite or Vague Katti, but Wishblade is better anyway.

It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it, and Tanith needs a speedwing to use it effectively by then.

She needs ~30 spd for 4-E-1, which she reaches using your numbers at ~20/8. If she doesn't have that right away, she can probably get there within the map. She's borderline, but she'll usually have it.

That's for the slowest group on the map, dude...

She just needs 34 Spd. Are you suggesting she can't reach 20/16 by 4-E-5 with all the BEXP and Paragons to toss around?

If that's the estimated level for someone like Tanith, I know plenty of people that could rise up due to STR and brave usage, some for outside of Aura combat. Will look into numbers.

It's weird, I think I'm starting to like this game.

Your point?

Well I don't see the point of doing more damage when most likely no one will be ORKOing auras anyways outside of like Boyd.

Marcia and Calill, or any CRK that was used. Who does Lucia have again? Elincia I suppose is her only viable option.

People outside of Danved have a bit of a problem supporting Calill due to move difference. Also consider the short time between part 3 when Calill joins Ike's group and part 4, she could probably get a C. But then think, not all untis are fit for certain routes. Marcia and the cavs could probably do better than Laguz route, while Calill has tons of fun there. Lucia's there, let 'em be friends. Not like they can't build up a bit. Plenty of thickets about, plenty of called for shoving. Not sure if they could pull an A by say 4-E-5, but until then both would be enjoying the healthy dose of avoid.

If they do get an A by 4-E-5, Calill will be pretty close to 2RKOing auras, but...not quite, even with a spirit dust. Good news is, just about everyone else has a problem with the cover tile auras...Wait, Nasir gives 5 magic, right? Hmm...If Calill can manage 20/15 (or we give her a spirit dust at level 20/12, considering there is like no competition for them), she could do it without a support...Though she could just A with anyone and get the same results, so you could just turn that spirit dust into money.

Calill's pretty badass there ;;>> Especially since she would be hands down the absolute best to fight cover auras.

Looking into numbers though...If by some miracle you can get Tormod to 20/9, you could give him both spirit dusts (because seriously ask yourself, who the fuck else is gonna put them to any better use?) for the same effects. Or he could get a bit of a BEXP bump to speed up those levels, after he caps strength, he gets nothing but positive and Speed is his best growth tied with HP. You'd still have to give him both spirit dusts, but consider this. You're giving the BEXP to someone who's a tier below just about everyone else. He'll be using less than others. Once he hits his speed cap, you could crown him (doesn't part 4 give you a bit?), and from there on he wouldn't need any BEXP. He'd need both spirit dusts still, but again no one else would care. From there on, it's 8 painless levels. Well...He could take both spirit dusts, or just A with someone (B for others), and he'd only need 1 spirit dust then...If he can A with an offense support, he wouldn't need the dusts.

...Perhaps I'm losing it. I'm trying to find a way to make Tormod usable outside of part 1. I dunno, I always liked Tormod I guess, despite the fact he's always sucked. He's got personality.

I apologize, sometimes I get on these rants to find how to specifically make characters usable throughout the game to better understand how it works. Characters that just break off like a twig at one point out of nowhere just irks me, so this becomes habit. I know I'm an obsessive, but it helped me better understand the game mechanics, and I did the same for Shadow Dragon. So far, it has to be the most solid list on this forum.

Hmmm....Anyone thought of giving Kyza resolve? One thing that would seperate him from Mordy in this instance would be that...Err...Kyza could ORKO swordmasters. Yeah, not much of a win I know, but it's another thing he can double to build up strike rank. As for long term, as in part 4...

Well, bad news is he sucks against the auras, but so does Mordy. Kyza has the benefit of getting to speed to double general endgame enemies (though not all). By then, Mordy would need resolve to do what Kyza could anyways. Kyza could use resolve as well, and double basically anything. Spirits included (Mordy can't double even with Resolve, he'd need Nasir).

Auras though? Interesting thing, them...Mordy can build strike over the course of the game, Resolve helping him out for the most part. Let's humor ourselves and say Mordy got to 32 and got an A with an offense booster and SS strike. We...might have to give him an energy drop, but...

SS Strike Mordy, Offense boosting support at A, energy drop, both blood dragons.

42Str+20 from SS+3 From the A support, +10 from the blood tides=75. Auras have 90 HP, 30 Def. 75-30=45, which is precisely half, meaning he can 2RKO. This is still an utterly retarded amount of resources and perhaps favoritism, unless you guys could see him at a higher level...But as you can see, A Tiger is not left completely in the dust, though still I couldn't imagine a worse class to bring to endgame...

Edited August 6, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Narga_Rocks]

Considering Caineghis needs an A support specifically with an offense boosting support to do any better, while Boyd not only needs 40STR, but 34 AS for both to ORKO an aura, 2RKOing is perfectly ok.

Actually, Caineghis needs blood tide. He starts with 22 str and a 22 mt weapon. So he's sitting at 66 mt. Even if you pull in 2 str somehow, he hits his cap at 70 mt. All he gets from a mt support is 72, and he'd have to pull A in 4 chapters somehow. Anyway, he needs 2 blood tides unless he somehow gets that A and 1 str or 2 str without a +mt support. And with a 20% spd growth he somehow needs to get 3 speed or he's taking Nasir as well. Boyd needs 40 str, sure, but that's happening before 34 spd anyway. Then the brave axe and nasir alone and he's good.

Something about Elincia and Jill, though, is that with double blood tide and white pool they can also ORKO an aura. Marcia, too, though she needs 31 str and an A support or 30 str and a +mt support, so it is less likely than Jill. Now, you might think that this isn't good because they are taking all that dragon skills, but they all have canto, meaning they fly out of that spot and allow another canto user to attack another aura, who moves and allows Shinon to walk in and attack an aura. Idea is, the dragons get put to good use by more than one character here. This is basically the only way to get multiple characters to use all three dragon skills at once on turn 1. Well, that and using ranged tomes before the dragons actually move up to the auras.

She needs ~30 spd for 4-E-1, which she reaches using your numbers at ~20/8. If she doesn't have that right away, she can probably get there within the map. She's borderline, but she'll usually have it.

That's for the slowest group on the map, dude...

Well, 30 spd covers all enemies but 2 snipers and ~2 generals that might pull 27 speed. It gets everything else, even the bosses.

4-E-2 on the other hand, Tanith needs to have gained 5 levels to pull 32 speed and that still misses warriors. So Tanith has some offence issues in 4-E-1, but not much in 4-E-1 depending on what you did with her earlier.

Well I don't see the point of doing more damage when most likely no one will be ORKOing auras anyways outside of like Boyd.

Well, others can too. Not to mention Nasir can't be everywhere so a combination that 3HKOs rather than 4HKOs is good too. Red dragons can't be everywhere either, so again since most <= 33 speed people need a blood tide to 2RKO with the brave weapons, it is good to have a unit that can pull 50 damage so someone else only needs 40. Or 52 and 38, or whatever. If Tanith somehow accomplishes 34 speed by now and also has a +mt support like Calill, then she's pulling 32 + 22 + 2 = 56 mt or 52 damage. A brave axe user with 38 str (say Haar) can now KO the aura without any dragon skills. All it took was Tanith with Nasir, and keep in mind that Tanith is using a 2 range weapon so it's easier to make use of Nasir and let someone else do the same. Anyway, when you include +mt supports a 36 str unit can also kill what Tanith weakened. Include a blood tide on Tanith since she has canto (so the blood tide can be used by others) and anyone with 31 str and a +mt support and a brave axe can now finish the thing off.

Anyway, the possibilities are greater when you do more than just 46 damage to an Aura.

Marcia and Calill, or any CRK that was used. Who does Lucia have again? Elincia I suppose is her only viable option.

People outside of Danved have a bit of a problem supporting Calill due to move difference. Also consider the short time between part 3 when Calill joins Ike's group and part 4, she could probably get a C. But then think, not all untis are fit for certain routes. Marcia and the cavs could probably do better than Laguz route, while Calill has tons of fun there. Lucia's there, let 'em be friends. Not like they can't build up a bit. Plenty of thickets about, plenty of called for shoving. Not sure if they could pull an A by say 4-E-5, but until then both would be enjoying the healthy dose of avoid.

Sadly I'd rather have Elincia take Reyson. Sure, he could've built up a support in part 3, but we wouldn't have been able to make use of it in 3-11 anyway and if Reyson supported a throwaway character then we're good since the other unit losing a support doesn't matter anymore. Plus, Elincia's heaven is only drool worthy in 4-E-5, and maybe on deg and 4-E-4, but the spirits there don't have an extra 25 avo. So it's good that Elincia gets something she might want and reyson doesn't care that he's getting heaven in return. Now, Elincia x Reyson isn't accelerated, but since he's going to be vigoring her lots, I don't see how it matters, it'll build fine. Of course, there is the question of whether she actually needs +mt if you get her str to 30, but whatever. It'll help on 32 def generals if she doesn't pull a stun in her 4 shots at it. Well, I think 13 x 4 kills them anyway, but if she has 29 str instead of 30 she'll like it.

Anyway, Calill is good, except Calill might want Marcia. Other good options for Calill is a mage like Ilyana or Soren. Soren might want earth or thunder for enemy phase, but his enemy phase will suck anyway and there are only 3 in the GMs that matter until Janaff so who cares. Ilyana and Soren could both use the extra mt for range work on dragons and attacking spirits, and Calill gets to support a unit that will likely stay nearby and they can heal each other to boost support growth.

Anyway, if you aren't bringing another mage then having Sanaki bless a ranged tome for two mages (herself and Calill) isn't as great as for three mages.

However, Calill x Lucia is a little accelerated, and Calill might like the avo except I think she's destined to be 2RKOd forever. Still, she does a decent smackdown doubling with rexflame, so if I can arrange her to be attacked only once I'd rather have a decent chance of her avoiding the attack. A C by 4-E-1 and an A by 4-E-5 might be doable.

If they do get an A by 4-E-5, Calill will be pretty close to 2RKOing auras, but...not quite, even with a spirit dust. Good news is, just about everyone else has a problem with the cover tile auras...Wait, Nasir gives 5 magic, right? Hmm...If Calill can manage 20/15 (or we give her a spirit dust at level 20/12, considering there is like no competition for them), she could do it without a support...Though she could just A with anyone and get the same results, so you could just turn that spirit dust into money.

Calill's pretty badass there ;;>> Especially since she would be hands down the absolute best to fight cover auras.

Calill could take anyone to get that. Heck, she gets it easier if she takes Reyson instead of Elincia. Though Reyson is less likely to be hanging around her than your second best offensive unit (after a couple of levels).

Anyway, Lucia might outperform Tanith in 4-E-2 thanks to the spd requirements, but Tanith is easily outperforming in 4-E-1, I think anyway. 4-E-3 is dragons and I don't feel like thinking about it, and 4-E-4 if you are willing to accept Tanith with the wishblade I don't see Lucia winning that comparison. As for the rest of part 4, gotta go with Tanith on this one, mostly for what Red Fox has been saying I guess.

Just think, though: At least they aren't placed as far apart as Lethe and Makalov.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

Actually, Caineghis needs blood tide. He starts with 22 str and a 22 mt weapon. So he's sitting at 66 mt. Even if you pull in 2 str somehow, he hits his cap at 70 mt. All he gets from a mt support is 72, and he'd have to pull A in 4 chapters somehow. Anyway, he needs 2 blood tides unless he somehow gets that A and 1 str or 2 str without a +mt support. And with a 20% spd growth he somehow needs to get 3 speed or he's taking Nasir as well. Boyd needs 40 str, sure, but that's happening before 34 spd anyway. Then the brave axe and nasir alone and he's good.

Cain CAN'T ORKO without an offense boosting support. Let's say he got the strength level he averages.

668+5=73, you need 75 to do 45 damage in one shot. So really, he either needs a support at A with an offense boosting support, or he needs all three dragons around him.

Something about Elincia and Jill, though, is that with double blood tide and white pool they can also ORKO an aura. Marcia, too, though she needs 31 str and an A support or 30 str and a +mt support, so it is less likely than Jill. Now, you might think that this isn't good because they are taking all that dragon skills, but they all have canto, meaning they fly out of that spot and allow another canto user to attack another aura, who moves and allows Shinon to walk in and attack an aura. Idea is, the dragons get put to good use by more than one character here. This is basically the only way to get multiple characters to use all three dragon skills at once on turn 1. Well, that and using ranged tomes before the dragons actually move up to the auras.

Canto at least makes it a more reasonable argument for them then it does Cain.

Well, 30 spd covers all enemies but 2 snipers and ~2 generals that might pull 27 speed. It gets everything else, even the bosses.

4-E-2 on the other hand, Tanith needs to have gained 5 levels to pull 32 speed and that still misses warriors. So Tanith has some offence issues in 4-E-1, but not much in 4-E-1 depending on what you did with her earlier.

Wasn't saying Calill was better than Tanith, was just analyzing Calill really. You'll see I'll do that at random a lot. I like depth, and I'm starting to see where to look in this game.

Well, others can too. Not to mention Nasir can't be everywhere so a combination that 3HKOs rather than 4HKOs is good too. Red dragons can't be everywhere either, so again since most <= 33 speed people need a blood tide to 2RKO with the brave weapons, it is good to have a unit that can pull 50 damage so someone else only needs 40. Or 52 and 38, or whatever. If Tanith somehow accomplishes 34 speed by now and also has a +mt support like Calill, then she's pulling 32 + 22 + 2 = 56 mt or 52 damage. A brave axe user with 38 str (say Haar) can now KO the aura without any dragon skills. All it took was Tanith with Nasir, and keep in mind that Tanith is using a 2 range weapon so it's easier to make use of Nasir and let someone else do the same. Anyway, when you include +mt supports a 36 str unit can also kill what Tanith weakened. Include a blood tide on Tanith since she has canto (so the blood tide can be used by others) and anyone with 31 str and a +mt support and a brave axe can now finish the thing off.

Anyway, the possibilities are greater when you do more than just 46 damage to an Aura.

I'm aware, but cutting down the numbers certainly helps, wouldn't you agree?

Sadly I'd rather have Elincia take Reyson. Sure, he could've built up a support in part 3, but we wouldn't have been able to make use of it in 3-11 anyway and if Reyson supported a throwaway character then we're good since the other unit losing a support doesn't matter anymore. Plus, Elincia's heaven is only drool worthy in 4-E-5, and maybe on deg and 4-E-4, but the spirits there don't have an extra 25 avo. So it's good that Elincia gets something she might want and reyson doesn't care that he's getting heaven in return. Now, Elincia x Reyson isn't accelerated, but since he's going to be vigoring her lots, I don't see how it matters, it'll build fine. Of course, there is the question of whether she actually needs +mt if you get her str to 30, but whatever. It'll help on 32 def generals if she doesn't pull a stun in her 4 shots at it. Well, I think 13 x 4 kills them anyway, but if she has 29 str instead of 30 she'll like it.

I didn't even think of that..Problem is, that involves bringing in Reyson when we could bring in Raphael to endgame. Raph only needing Celerity>Reyson needing gems.

Anyway, Calill is good, except Calill might want Marcia. Other good options for Calill is a mage like Ilyana or Soren. Soren might want earth or thunder for enemy phase, but his enemy phase will suck anyway and there are only 3 in the GMs that matter until Janaff so who cares. Ilyana and Soren could both use the extra mt for range work on dragons and attacking spirits, and Calill gets to support a unit that will likely stay nearby and they can heal each other to boost support growth.

Anyway, if you aren't bringing another mage then having Sanaki bless a ranged tome for two mages (herself and Calill) isn't as great as for three mages.

However, Calill x Lucia is a little accelerated, and Calill might like the avo except I think she's destined to be 2RKOd forever. Still, she does a decent smackdown doubling with rexflame, so if I can arrange her to be attacked only once I'd rather have a decent chance of her avoiding the attack. A C by 4-E-1 and an A by 4-E-5 might be doable.

See? It's a perfectly fair option.

Calill could take anyone to get that. Heck, she gets it easier if she takes Reyson instead of Elincia. Though Reyson is less likely to be hanging around her than your second best offensive unit (after a couple of levels).

Anyway, Lucia might outperform Tanith in 4-E-2 thanks to the spd requirements, but Tanith is easily outperforming in 4-E-1, I think anyway. 4-E-3 is dragons and I don't feel like thinking about it, and 4-E-4 if you are willing to accept Tanith with the wishblade I don't see Lucia winning that comparison. As for the rest of part 4, gotta go with Tanith on this one, mostly for what Red Fox has been saying I guess.

Just think, though: At least they aren't placed as far apart as Lethe and Makalov.

Relax, that again was just more analyizing of Calill, I like having a better understanding of small things. I'm weird like that.

Bleh...Could give Lucia Alondite for that chapter, but there are others to consider, granted we brought other swordies that care for it...

Either way I get the point. I can see the difference now.

Still, I have an inkling that Keiran could move up. Also, I think Kurth has his uses in the physical eras of the game. Why? Well because hard-ass characters is why. Someone like Keiran would be great to use with Kurth. +5 Defense on a dude who could use Sol or Luna, essentially could help make a sort of situation where they could legitimately tank. Keiran is one of these people, and the first part happens to have a lot of armors. I'd have a hard time seeing anyone but the most badass 1 rounding these guys. Keiran can make up with this by using a hammer. With a Blood Tide and brave axe, he could 1RKO some of the 4-E-2 guys rather soundly actually.

Another note is basically anyone with a brave weapon can destroy spirits, granted they do at least 22 damage a shot. Not hard, when the enemy has 20-22 Def. Basicallym anyone that can pick up a brave weapon can annihilate 4-E-4, making it more of a joke than it already is. Keiran could bulldoze this.

By the time 4-E-5 rolls around, he easily has the strength by then to be able to 2RKO with brave axe. In a way, Keiran's endgame is actually pretty decent.

I dunno, I'm starting to get obsessive. All I am saying though is endgame, Keiran might actually be a pretty cool guy.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Narga_Rocks]

I'd have a hard time seeing anyone but the most badass 1 rounding these guys.

I find it funny that properly leveled with all the manly men going around in this game Elincia is one of the few that qualifies in that statement.

Another note is basically anyone with a brave weapon can destroy spirits, granted they do at least 22 damage a shot. Not hard, when the enemy has 20-22 Def. Basicallym anyone that can pick up a brave weapon can annihilate 4-E-4, making it more of a joke than it already is. Keiran could bulldoze this.

Not as easy as you'd think. First off, they have 23 and 25, not 20 and 22. Check this:

Link to page (sidenote: poor bandits)

Basically, they have 20 and 22 base, but that gets a boost of 3 for some reason. Same with the auras, the base stats page on Radiant Dawn shows 28 def/res for them, but nobody thinks they only have 28 because everyone remembers. We just don't remember with the spirits, apparently.

So, 40hp/25def for fire, and 38hp/23def for wind/thunder. Now, that's still pretty easy, right? Just need 45 mt with a brave and you've got them all covered. Except 4-E-4 is like 50% cover tile or more. These guys just about always stand on cover since they typically attack physical units on enemy phase so they will do so from a cover tile if they can.

52 mt for wind/thunder and 55 mt for fire. Not so easy to get there with just a brave, is it? A trueblade can't even ORKO a fire spirit when it's on a cover tile. Now, trueblades have less strength than most other units, but it's still annoying since the vague katti has 9 mt more than a brave axe. Even Boyd with a water/fire/dark support and max str tops out at 54 mt. That's the most mt possible with a brave weapon and no blood tide.

By the time 4-E-5 rolls around, he easily has the strength by then to be able to 2RKO with brave axe. In a way, Keiran's endgame is actually pretty decent.

I dunno, I'm starting to get obsessive. All I am saying though is endgame, Keiran might actually be a pretty cool guy.

Still needs blood tide to pull the 2RKO. There's more blood tide going around than white pool, though, so it might mean something.

Don't forget, though, the brave users will have a bigger miss chance than SS users or forge users, so that's annoying for brave users.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

I find it funny that properly leveled with all the manly men going around in this game Elincia is one of the few that qualifies in that statement.

I think I'm a fan of Elincia now.

Not as easy as you'd think. First off, they have 23 and 25, not 20 and 22. Check this:

Link to page (sidenote: poor bandits)

Basically, they have 20 and 22 base, but that gets a boost of 3 for some reason. Same with the auras, the base stats page on Radiant Dawn shows 28 def/res for them, but nobody thinks they only have 28 because everyone remembers. We just don't remember with the spirits, apparently.

So, 40hp/25def for fire, and 38hp/23def for wind/thunder. Now, that's still pretty easy, right? Just need 45 mt with a brave and you've got them all covered. Except 4-E-4 is like 50% cover tile or more. These guys just about always stand on cover since they typically attack physical units on enemy phase so they will do so from a cover tile if they can.

52 mt for wind/thunder and 55 mt for fire. Not so easy to get there with just a brave, is it? A trueblade can't even ORKO a fire spirit when it's on a cover tile. Now, trueblades have less strength than most other units, but it's still annoying since the vague katti has 9 mt more than a brave axe. Even Boyd with a water/fire/dark support and max str tops out at 54 mt. That's the most mt possible with a brave weapon and no blood tide.

Could see it more troublesome on cover tiles, but everyone not Cain would be having trouble on those bastards. Well, unless you doubled naturally, which case you could probably use a legendary weapon, but off a cover tile you can do fine.

Still needs blood tide to pull the 2RKO. There's more blood tide going around than white pool, though, so it might mean something.

Don't forget, though, the brave users will have a bigger miss chance than SS users or forge users, so that's annoying for brave users.

See? Now you get my point.

As for the missing chance, Keiran has the luck of having an ACC boosting support. He also has relatively fast supports with Geoff and Elincia, both of whom would be on the same route. He could get an offense boost from Geoff in exchange for a bit of acc and would power Geoff up as well. On the other hand, Elincia's just a better unit, and could get a huge Acc bonus from her.

I think I could still see Stefan having a good chance for endgame due to his affinity helping bravers that much more.

Anyways, whatcha think of Kurth being a benefit to the durable units, helping them be true tanks in the early parts of endgame, most of these units having skills like Sol and Luna?

Speaking of people that are durable that have power to get them into endgame with a brave weapon, Aran. With this, basically for part 4 he no longer has to give a shit about speed. This means he has no reason not to crown immediately. He loses 4 HP and Luck, but wtf ever. In exchange he gets to freely grow the stats he does well in, along with Impale and extra crit. He'd need at least a C with an attack support to pull it off on the auras, but that shouldn't be hard at all. I suppose you could BEXP him up a bit, but with the crowning you could wait till level 20/10/11 to BEXP him up, which would net him HP and Luck (since Skill certainly isn't a problem). He could make up what he lost that way. Either way, it shows that he doesn't need much, and a crown makes him much easier to utilize, as it reduces the EXP he needs to truly be useful.

In fact, let's give him a C with someone at level 20/10/11. Shouldn't be rediculous by any means.

1x Sniper lvl 14 (Silver Bow)

51 hp, 45 atk, 28 AS, 166 hit, 83 avo, 25 def, 20 res, 27 crit, 26 cev

See this guy? Generally, most units on this map have that sort of ATK. A C with anyone at that level, this putz is doing 10 damage, a maddening 5RKO. But let's give him Night Tide...Suddenly, this guy is only doing 5 damage. He just turned a 5RKO to 9RKO.

With Blood Tide, he would have basically 41 STR, but with his speed it's unimportant, it's the skill he wants. This boosts his crit AND his Impale chances. 25+5=40+10 from natural Sentinal crit=30, and on top of that has a 40% chance of firing an Impale, which would do 4x damage.

With a Spear, he'd have 54 Mt under blood tide 35 crit before enemy luck considered.

Let's say he's got the Wishblade for 4-E-3. He'd have 35+22 mt=57. +5 from blood tide, that's 62+1 from an offense support. With 35 crit before enemy luck. With 40% Impale activation. Do keep in mind, he's fucking doubling now, and there's no reason we shouldn't BEXP the hell out of him from here on.

9x Red Dragon lvl 25 (S Strike)

75 hp, 58 atk, 13 AS, 166 hit, 63 avo, 36 def, 20 res, 10 crit, 12 cev

2RKO, leaving them in the fucking twenties. Even on a cover though, a Crit activation would kill this sucker in a round of combat. Bad-fucking-ass.

In exchange, these guys are doing 22 Damage. Basically a 3RKO. Night tide makes this 17, still a 3RKO though. Cover Tile? 12, a 4RKO, possible 5RKO if BEXP was involved. Cover, AND night tide? 7 damage. 7RKO.

Aran rules these fools.

12x White Dragon lvl 25

71 hp, 56 atk, 13 AS, 179 hit, 63 avo, 23 def, 36 res, 11 crit, 12 cev

ORKO, doesn't need blood tide. However, they do 40 damage in return, which is painful. Even Night Tide won't help, nor would WardWood. Even a combo would reduce it to 25. Certainly helps against other things, but h certainly wants to be careful.

With spirits, he could pull out the brave lance (if you brought Nephenee, they could Trade. Neph would prefer the more chances at crits and Impale, as Aran clearly wouldn't need it for 4-E-3). If he's got a +2 ATK support, he could ORKO 25 Def 42 HP spirits. If anything is stronger than that, he'd need blood tide.

BUT CRIT AND LUCK-

Cain brought Fortune, who the fuck else wants it? Not like Aran needs any other skills.

I think the gap between Neph and him needs to close a bit ;;>>

Another factor I thought up for Endgame would be Stillness. Basically, you will NEVER be attacked when someone else is around. This would be a fantastic skill for someone stuck with a brave and low resistance against the spirits.

Suppose my question is, how quick you see Aran reaching 20/10? Paragon would help I suppose...If it's by 3-13, we get this after crowning.

Aran 20/10/1

40 HP, 28 Str, 28 Skill, 20 AS, 13 Luck, 27 Def, 13 Res. I'm sure he has an A with someone by now. Let's give him a general +2.

2x Cat lvl 15 (S Strike)

42 hp, 29 atk, 22 AS, 157 hit, 66 avo, 14 def, 11 res, 11 crit, 7 cev

6x Cat lvl 16 (S Strike)

43 hp, 30 atk, 22.5 AS, 158.5 hit, 67.5 avo, 15 def, 11.5 res, 11.5 crit, 7.5 cev

4x Cat lvl 17 (S Strike)

44 hp, 31 atk, 23 AS, 160 hit, 69 avo, 16 def, 12 res, 12 crit, 8 cev -He could actually be immune to the 29 ATK, a +3 Def would make him invulnerable to the 30 ATK, the latter doing 1-2 damage. 40-20RKO. LOL!

1x Tiger lvl 15 (S Strike)

50 hp, 40 atk, 17 AS, 153 hit, 56 avo, 19.2 def, 6 res, 10 crit, 7 cev

7x Tiger lvl 16 (S Strike)

51 hp, 40.5 atk, 17.5 AS, 154.5 hit, 57.5 avo, 20 def, 6.5 res, 10.5 crit, 7.5 cev

4x Tiger lvl 17 (S Strike)

52 hp, 41 atk, 18 AS, 156 hit, 59 avo, 21 def, 7 res, 11 crit, 8 cev -a +3 Def support would make these guys 4RKO. Hell, he doesn't need a support to be 4RKOd by them aside from the 41 Mt guy, and that is easily solved with a +1 support.

2x Hawk lvl 14 (S Strike)

41 hp, 31 atk, 22 AS, 163 hit, 68 avo, 14 def, 9 res, 12 crit, 9 cev

1x Hawk lvl 15 (S Strike)

42 hp, 31 atk, 22 AS, 165 hit, 70 avo, 15 def, 10 res, 13 crit, 10 cev -Again, negligeable damage.

This is....Nutz.

Even more frightening, he's gaining EXP as he fights here, gaining even moar defense, HP, strength, skill, what have you. Couple levels, he could pack a vulnery and basically walk through this chapter like it's a moshpit.

Let's give him 3 levels for that one, I mean that's too damn epic to go unrewarded. Have him go Ike's route.

41 HP, 30.25 Str, 30 Skill, 21 Speed, 14 Luck, 29 Def, 13 Res.

1x Axe Gen lvl 7 (Stl Poleaxe):

44HP, 40.5 Atk, 21 AS, 129 Hit, 63 Avo, 26 Def, 17 Res, 12 Crit, 21 Ddg

Strongest dude on the map of 4-1. Even a C with anyone makes this dude 5RKO. +3 Def support, it's 6RKO. The strongest enemy on the fucking map. He could kill this man with a forged steel lance. in 2 rounds. Nevermind he could annihilate this punk with a crit or an Impale activation. Anything with 32 ATK and under can't even hurt him. This includes 4 enemies on that map. 1 defense level, and the number of people who can't hurt him increases to 11.

I don't care what you say about about Neph's offense, Aran's walking around, being in-fucking-vincible to some enemies.

Goddamn, I could see him in High Tier for this.

I wouldn't put him above like Raphael or something though ;;>>

On second thought...not high tier. How does below Elincia sound?

Edited August 7, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Narga_Rocks]

Okay, couple things I missed, but decided to point out.

The fact that you suck doesn't mean that we do.

wow, what a wonderful counter to my point. Let me make something just as strong and convincing.

'no u'

ignoring this:

I've said it once already, the fact that you suck doesn't mean we have to. It's actually rather simple. I wish I had a 2-3 save in HM and could make a video to teach you how to not suck. You know, there's a reason that the simple strategy floating around for keeping over 40 enemies alive involves Mak and Danved unequipped on thickets at the bottom. They simply aren't needed to cover Kieran/Geof.

Which was in my same post. In case you can't tell, the "simple strategy floating around" line is a reference to things earlier in this thread, many many pages ago. I didn't want to go into details since I thought it was unnecessary, but since he did the whole "no u" thing I figured I had to in my last post, sigh. Anyway, just wanted to point out that he skipped something in a post to try to make me look worse.

Next up:

Mak can't possibly take BEXP away from you in mid part 3 because he doesn't even exist. Taking BEXP away is a negative that Mak doesn't have, but Lethe will, which is why it's a negative for her.

Okay, so let's call it a negative. It's extremely minor, anyway. You'd basically have to not give anyone bexp. You know, shinon needs some along the way to force str up, otherwise you are wasting an energy drop on a guy who doesn't need it or he'll be missing some ORKOs in part 4 he could have had. Is it a negative to give some to him? Or Neph to boost str? Or really anyone who benefits. We aren't giving her more than what most people on the PoR board tend to consider a fair share.

Ignored. Still acted like the bexp somehow equaled the paragon and crown. Don't really mind him ignoring that too much, although I'd like to see his take on the fair share business in the PoR board since he didn't comment on Lethe getting hers, but this:

In other words, Lethe's teammates are going to have X BEXP after Lethe eats up some BEXP, and Mak's teammates are going to have X + Y BEXP, where Y is the amount of BEXP Lethe used up.

If your logic actually held, it would give us ridiculous conclusions like Lyre > Sanaki because Lyre could be fed kills/BEXP/whatever in part 3, and then we'd say "WELL IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT RESOURCES LYRE CONSUMED OVER SANAKI, BECAUSE THOSE RESOURCES COULD HAVE GONE TO ANOTHER UNIT, BUT THAT OTHER UNIT WOULD HAVE TAKEN IT FROM ANOTHER UNIT, ETC. ETC." to try and justify it, except of course that's a load of crap.

Right, time for smash's patented retarded misapplication of other people's logic in ways that make absolutely no sense. Giving Lyre similar amounts of bexp would not help her case at all since it would only get her to 24 speed by 3-8 when it no longer helps. That wouldn't exactly make her suddenly better than Sanaki. But then this is par for the course for you. Do you actually expect your insane caps sentences to hold up to an analysis?

Which he ignored and followed up with this:

Lyre has a lot less att, but at least she doubles, and has about 1261236125 times more durability because she doesn't get one rounded by like everything in the map. Lyre doesn't care about transformation issues if her opponent is Sanaki, since by the time Lyre receives the number of attacks required to make her untransformed and *then* kill her off, Sanaki would've been killed like 5 times over.

Not to mention that Lyre would be a lot more salvageable than Sanaki, since 2-3 energy drops would make her somewhat like a crappy version of Ranulf, and dracoshields is a massive +4 def for her, while Sanaki's durability is never salvageable (lol @ 28 HP/10 def for 4-P), and would need 2-3 speedwings to be doubling (granted, if she doubles she's one rounding, but there's only so much you can do with a glass cannon).

The major reason why Lyre isn't comparable to Sanaki is because we're not retarded and we realize that Lyre sucking and consuming resources in part 3 does not come even close to overriding Lyre beating Sanaki, or at LEAST tying, when they both exist in part 4. We don't go "oh well since Sanaki doesn't even exist it doesn't matter what favoritism we're throwing on Lyre, even if it's 'minor'"!

Which brings me back to the original point; you can't say "let's give Lethe bexp in 3-8 or whatever and it's fine because Mak doesn't even exist".

Now, that was in response to something pretty boi wolf said, but the idea here is that he's still harping on the Lyre > Sanaki for retarded reasons as if what we are saying with Lethe is similar in any way. And he completely ignored how I basically showed that what he was doing in the Lyre example is in no way comparable whatsoever to with Lethe. Especially since there is a perfectly logical way for Makalov to even up the bexp debt that Lethe took: Taking bexp himself, duh. Smash has even said Mak is getting 3 or 4 extra levels with paragon on top of what he'd get without it. That is way more than what Lethe is getting with her measly 2000 bexp. The amount of exp Mak is taking away from others is way more than what Lethe got in bexp.

[grandjackal]

Just wanted to repost this ;;>>

See? Now you get my point.

As for the missing chance, Keiran has the luck of having an ACC boosting support. He also has relatively fast supports with Geoff and Elincia, both of whom would be on the same route. He could get an offense boost from Geoff in exchange for a bit of acc and would power Geoff up as well. On the other hand, Elincia's just a better unit, and could get a huge Acc bonus from her.

I think I could still see Stefan having a good chance for endgame due to his affinity helping bravers that much more.

Anyways, whatcha think of Kurth being a benefit to the durable units, helping them be true tanks in the early parts of endgame, most of these units having skills like Sol and Luna?

Speaking of people that are durable that have power to get them into endgame with a brave weapon, Aran. With this, basically for part 4 he no longer has to give a shit about speed. This means he has no reason not to crown immediately. He loses 4 HP and Luck, but wtf ever. In exchange he gets to freely grow the stats he does well in, along with Impale and extra crit. He'd need at least a C with an attack support to pull it off on the auras, but that shouldn't be hard at all. I suppose you could BEXP him up a bit, but with the crowning you could wait till level 20/10/11 to BEXP him up, which would net him HP and Luck (since Skill certainly isn't a problem). He could make up what he lost that way. Either way, it shows that he doesn't need much, and a crown makes him much easier to utilize, as it reduces the EXP he needs to truly be useful.

In fact, let's give him a C with someone at level 20/10/11. Shouldn't be rediculous by any means.

1x Sniper lvl 14 (Silver Bow)

51 hp, 45 atk, 28 AS, 166 hit, 83 avo, 25 def, 20 res, 27 crit, 26 cev

See this guy? Generally, most units on this map have that sort of ATK. A C with anyone at that level, this putz is doing 10 damage, a maddening 5RKO. But let's give him Night Tide...Suddenly, this guy is only doing 5 damage. He just turned a 5RKO to 9RKO.

With Blood Tide, he would have basically 41 STR, but with his speed it's unimportant, it's the skill he wants. This boosts his crit AND his Impale chances. 25+5=40+10 from natural Sentinal crit=30, and on top of that has a 40% chance of firing an Impale, which would do 4x damage.

With a Spear, he'd have 54 Mt under blood tide 35 crit before enemy luck considered.

Let's say he's got the Wishblade for 4-E-3. He'd have 35+22 mt=57. +5 from blood tide, that's 62+1 from an offense support. With 35 crit before enemy luck. With 40% Impale activation. Do keep in mind, he's fucking doubling now, and there's no reason we shouldn't BEXP the hell out of him from here on.

9x Red Dragon lvl 25 (S Strike)

75 hp, 58 atk, 13 AS, 166 hit, 63 avo, 36 def, 20 res, 10 crit, 12 cev

2RKO, leaving them in the fucking twenties. Even on a cover though, a Crit activation would kill this sucker in a round of combat. Bad-fucking-ass.

In exchange, these guys are doing 22 Damage. Basically a 3RKO. Night tide makes this 17, still a 3RKO though. Cover Tile? 12, a 4RKO, possible 5RKO if BEXP was involved. Cover, AND night tide? 7 damage. 7RKO.

Aran rules these fools.

12x White Dragon lvl 25

71 hp, 56 atk, 13 AS, 179 hit, 63 avo, 23 def, 36 res, 11 crit, 12 cev

ORKO, doesn't need blood tide. However, they do 40 damage in return, which is painful. Even Night Tide won't help, nor would WardWood. Even a combo would reduce it to 25. Certainly helps against other things, but h certainly wants to be careful.

With spirits, he could pull out the brave lance (if you brought Nephenee, they could Trade. Neph would prefer the more chances at crits and Impale, as Aran clearly wouldn't need it for 4-E-3). If he's got a +2 ATK support, he could ORKO 25 Def 42 HP spirits. If anything is stronger than that, he'd need blood tide.

BUT CRIT AND LUCK-

Cain brought Fortune, who the fuck else wants it? Not like Aran needs any other skills.

I think the gap between Neph and him needs to close a bit ;;>>

Another factor I thought up for Endgame would be Stillness. Basically, you will NEVER be attacked when someone else is around. This would be a fantastic skill for someone stuck with a brave and low resistance against the spirits.

Suppose my question is, how quick you see Aran reaching 20/10? Paragon would help I suppose...If it's by 3-13, we get this after crowning.

Aran 20/10/1

40 HP, 28 Str, 28 Skill, 20 AS, 13 Luck, 27 Def, 13 Res. I'm sure he has an A with someone by now. Let's give him a general +2.

2x Cat lvl 15 (S Strike)

42 hp, 29 atk, 22 AS, 157 hit, 66 avo, 14 def, 11 res, 11 crit, 7 cev

6x Cat lvl 16 (S Strike)

43 hp, 30 atk, 22.5 AS, 158.5 hit, 67.5 avo, 15 def, 11.5 res, 11.5 crit, 7.5 cev

4x Cat lvl 17 (S Strike)

44 hp, 31 atk, 23 AS, 160 hit, 69 avo, 16 def, 12 res, 12 crit, 8 cev -He could actually be immune to the 29 ATK, a +3 Def would make him invulnerable to the 30 ATK, the latter doing 1-2 damage. 40-20RKO. LOL!

1x Tiger lvl 15 (S Strike)

50 hp, 40 atk, 17 AS, 153 hit, 56 avo, 19.2 def, 6 res, 10 crit, 7 cev

7x Tiger lvl 16 (S Strike)

51 hp, 40.5 atk, 17.5 AS, 154.5 hit, 57.5 avo, 20 def, 6.5 res, 10.5 crit, 7.5 cev

4x Tiger lvl 17 (S Strike)

52 hp, 41 atk, 18 AS, 156 hit, 59 avo, 21 def, 7 res, 11 crit, 8 cev -a +3 Def support would make these guys 4RKO. Hell, he doesn't need a support to be 4RKOd by them aside from the 41 Mt guy, and that is easily solved with a +1 support. If you BEXPd him a bit at level 8 to get him to 10, he could actually double these hosers.

2x Hawk lvl 14 (S Strike)

41 hp, 31 atk, 22 AS, 163 hit, 68 avo, 14 def, 9 res, 12 crit, 9 cev

1x Hawk lvl 15 (S Strike)

42 hp, 31 atk, 22 AS, 165 hit, 70 avo, 15 def, 10 res, 13 crit, 10 cev -Again, negligeable damage.

This is....Nutz.

Even more frightening, he's gaining EXP as he fights here, gaining even moar defense, HP, strength, skill, what have you. Couple levels, he could pack a vulnery and basically walk through this chapter like it's a moshpit.

Let's give him 3 levels for that one, I mean that's too damn epic to go unrewarded. Have him go Ike's route.

41 HP, 30.25 Str, 30 Skill, 21 Speed, 14 Luck, 29 Def, 13 Res.

1x Axe Gen lvl 7 (Stl Poleaxe):

44HP, 40.5 Atk, 21 AS, 129 Hit, 63 Avo, 26 Def, 17 Res, 12 Crit, 21 Ddg

Strongest dude on the map of 4-1. Even a C with anyone makes this dude 5RKO. +3 Def support, it's 6RKO. The strongest enemy on the fucking map. He could kill this man with a forged steel lance. in 2 rounds. Nevermind he could annihilate this punk with a crit or an Impale activation. Anything with 32 ATK and under can't even hurt him. This includes 4 enemies on that map. 1 defense level, and the number of people who can't hurt him increases to 11.

I don't care what you say about about Neph's offense, Aran's walking around, being in-fucking-vincible to some enemies.

Goddamn, I could see him in High Tier for this.

I wouldn't put him above like Raphael or something though ;;>>

On second thought...not high tier. How does below Elincia sound?

Edited August 9, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Jaybee]

Why is Calill > Soren? Soren has a large availability lead over Calill, and I don't think Rexflame's + Spd can beat out Soren's availability lead on her.

@PBW: That seems like a ton of favouritism to give Aran.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Joshybear25

[grandjackal]

A single crown tons of favoritism?

There are two crowns in the DB part 3, you get one in 3-6, and the other in 3-12. I'd find it hard to find anyone who could pull that kind of durability the next few parts aside from Taur, who would basically be an inferior version of Aran at that point.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Mekkah]

Wolf, Aran's real problem isn't part 4, though he's not _that_ awesome there...having him go Ike route essentially makes him a punchbag for 4-4 where he's not ORKOing anything without Brave, and Brave has 1-range and very finite uses. The reason why Aran isn't that high is because of his part 1 performance, and following that, his part 3 and part 4.

[grandjackal]

Wolf, Aran's real problem isn't part 4, though he's not _that_ awesome there...having him go Ike route essentially makes him a punchbag for 4-4 where he's not ORKOing anything without Brave, and Brave has 1-range and very finite uses. The reason why Aran isn't that high is because of his part 1 performance, and following that, his part 3 and part 4.

So he's not good at any part?...Then why the fuck is he in upper mid?

[Interceptor]

So he's not good at any part?...Then why the fuck is he in upper mid?

It's because of a phenomenon that I have dubbed the "Dawn Brigade Bump". People seem to give invisible fairy points to DB units because their chapters are harder. Sometimes it's justified (Volug), sometimes it's shaky (Zihark), sometimes it's lol (Nolan). Some of them have been fixed (Jill used to be in High, wtf), but other characters still persist in dirtying higher tiers with their mediocrity, like Aran.

[grandjackal]

If being THAT durable is bad, might as well drop Brom too down to Eddie and Leo's level along with Aran. He might not one round, but with his combined Impale and crit rate, he's still destroying some things rather often.

[Interceptor]

He's not destroying things "rather often" compared against other people, which is entirely the point of looking at his attack power in the first place. Aran's tankiness is tempered by his inability to leverage a good offense, and his tankiness isn't even that good to begin with (consider his debut chapter where he's a second-string tank). By the time he's really durable, we've stopped caring about it. He's an average-ish unit.

[Narga_Rocks]

So, to go back to a previous topic, since Smash hasn't posted in a while I think Mak should move down.

Looking it over more now though, I can see how similar they are outside of Danved's superiority part 2...Could you agree that they should at least be generally in the same tier?

...I never noticed that Mak was a tier above Danved. In that case, sure. They should move closer.

Unfortunately, he never said which tier, but since Makalov needs paragon for 3-11 and 3-E and a crown just to tie/edge Lethe statistically (who only took a small amount of bexp) at the beginning of part 4 and she's only recently moved out of the dregs in low tier to above Oliver, I fail to see how his Lower Mid tier position is justified.

As for Danved and Mak, they are like the only two characters in this entire game I've never used, so if it's agreed Mak should move down, so be it.

Since nobody has outright said that Mak deserves his position in lower mid (recently, anyway), and even smash said that Mak and Danved should move closer, it seems to me that Mak should move down to either above or below Vika.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

He's not destroying things "rather often" compared against other people, which is entirely the point of looking at his attack power in the first place. Aran's tankiness is tempered by his inability to leverage a good offense, and his tankiness isn't even that good to begin with (consider his debut chapter where he's a second-string tank). By the time he's really durable, we've stopped caring about it. He's an average-ish unit.

After that crowning, he'd have about 30 crit and 30% Impale chance. Considering at that point he could tank pretty well, he could easily pop off a killer strike on whoever attacks him.

Anyways...So no one thinks Lethe should climb up higher?

[Florete]

I'll lower Makalov since no one is opposing it.

And since Interceptor mentioned it, I think maybe Nolan and Aran could stand to go down a bit. Thoughts? I'll do a comparison later if needed.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'll lower Makalov since no one is opposing it.

And since Interceptor mentioned it, I think maybe Nolan and Aran could stand to go down a bit. Thoughts? I'll do a comparison later if needed.

Aran < Boyd at minimum, though smash will obviously oppose it. I won't bother with details unless prompted, and maybe not even then.

I'd be sad to see Nolan drop, but considering his part 1 isn't exactly stellar (though still decent) once 1-5/1-6 rolls around and it takes resources/time to get him up to stuff in part 4, I can see him dropping.

Thing is, Nolan is better in part 3 than Zihark is, and that likely cancels most of Zihark's part 1 wins, and Zihark also takes time/resources to be brought up to stuff in part 4 as well, though if you gave him earth x earth he at least isn't likely to be hit during training. Still, that takes earth away from other units and forces Nolan (if Z x N) to not have a +def support in part 3 where it helps more. Volug x Zihark is likely a better pairing, and even though Volug spends some time away from Zihark (like 1-6-2 and 1-8), it grows faster than Z x N anyway so they are about equal in the building process (until B level in 3-6, where Zihark's faster growth with Volug means A level is easier to get for 3-12). Also, Nolan isn't dumping an established B support (possibly A) for C Zihark. Even so, the point is, if Nolan goes down a bit then Zihark likely should, too.

[grandjackal]

Nolan could stand to go down, but I just can't help but think Aran's durability and skill save him a bit. Basically at crowning at level 10, he's got 30 crit and 30% Impale activation rate. Perhaps it's just me overreacting though.

[-Cynthia-]

Nolan could stand to go down, but I just can't help but think Aran's durability and skill save him a bit. Basically at crowning at level 10, he's got 30 crit and 30% Impale activation rate. Perhaps it's just me overreacting though.

Well, 30 crit is not that much actually, since enmies actually have Lck in this game, it'll only be ~10% with that factored in. Plus, Aran's taking up a Crown this way, and they're in pretty high demand overall.

[grandjackal]

Nolan could stand to go down, but I just can't help but think Aran's durability and skill save him a bit. Basically at crowning at level 10, he's got 30 crit and 30% Impale activation rate. Perhaps it's just me overreacting though.

Well, 30 crit is not that much actually, since enmies actually have Lck in this game, it'll only be ~10% with that factored in. Plus, Aran's taking up a Crown this way, and they're in pretty high demand overall.

I guess saying he can take more counters for more crit/Impale activations wouldn't count, would it?

As for the crown deal, thing is you get two in the DB chapters, and he puts the best use to one of his, as I really don't see anyone outside of Taur putting a crown to quite as good of use for part 3 DB.

[Florete]

Nolan could stand to go down, but I just can't help but think Aran's durability and skill save him a bit. Basically at crowning at level 10, he's got 30 crit and 30% Impale activation rate. Perhaps it's just me overreacting though.

You say that like it's something amazing. This Aran also has 19-20 Spd, meaning he'll be in trouble getting doubled. And those activation rates aren't even that special, barring the fact that he only has 28% Impale and not 30%, and also only 19% innate crit. Seriously, where did you get those numbers?

For comparison, 20/1 Mia has 36% innate crit and 16% Astra, but also doubles everything in sight. 20/1 Nephenee has the same activation rates as Aran, only doubles instead of getting doubled. 20/3 Boyd has 19% innate crit and 28% Colossus, an exact tie, only Boyd is much closer to doubling, and actually might be if he got lucky with BEXP in second tier. Aran's activation rates aren't that special.

[grandjackal]

Aran caps his important stats in tier to at level 8. He could be BEXPd a bit just like Boyd, and we'd get tougher results. For the record, 22 AS would not be doubled by much, if anything. If anything does double, it's swordies that would do pissover damage on him.

Though perhaps I was off a bit on the crit deal...;;>>

[Florete]

Aran caps his important stats in tier to at level 8. He could be BEXPd a bit just like Boyd, and we'd get tougher results. For the record, 22 AS would not be doubled by much, if anything. If anything does double, it's swordies that would do pissover damage on him.

Though perhaps I was off a bit on the crit deal...;;>>

The problem is that Aran has a tougher time getting that BEXP, since if we want to crown him in 4-P/1/2, he only has 4 maps in which to get tier 2 BEXP, the first few of which he wouldn't, because, you know, he hasn't capped anything yet. Boyd has 11 part 3 maps already.