Double Mythic Heroes: Nidhöggr & Læraðr

[Fire Emblem Fan]

To the surprise of no one, we're getting a Double Mythic Hero banner, featuring Nidhöggr and Læraðr.

 

[Sunwoo]

I'm legitimately wondering how we're even meant to beat these guys.

[Jotari]

Not surprised in the slightest to see them. At least they're knocking both of them out at the same time. Hopefully the next book has fewer OC characters so they can give us some more characters from the series.

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I'm legitimately wondering how we're even meant to beat these guys.

Can't actually watch the video now, what's the summary of their set up? Clone tree guy was pretty easy to take down as an enemy in the story (it was jacked deer guy I found difficult to attack without losing someone in those maps).

Edited November 28 by Jotari

[Tybrosion]

51 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Can't actually watch the video now, what's the summary of their set up? Clone tree guy was pretty easy to take down as an enemy in the story (it was jacked deer guy I found difficult to attack without losing someone in those maps).

TLDR of Laeradr's kit: 

Spoiler

He was (mostly) fine in the story maps because he only had a Prf weapon. Unfortunately, he gets a Prf B Passive added to the mix along with a new inheritable skill that blocks warping (unless if your warp has baked-in Pass like what Emblem Celica and Legendary M!Shez have).

TLDR of Nidhoggr's kit: 

Spoiler

 

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Can't actually watch the video now, what's the summary of their set up? Clone tree guy was pretty easy to take down as an enemy in the story (it was jacked deer guy I found difficult to attack without losing someone in those maps).

Here's the full set of effects. The sheer length should tell you roughly what you're dealing with:

 

Nidhoggr (note that her weapon is different from her story enemy version):

• Weapon:
  • Slaying effect
  • At start of turn or when ending movement, inflicts the following status effects on enemies in Ploy 4 range:
    • -7 Atk/Def
    • Sabotage
  • If unit is transformed or if HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
    • Deals damage to opponent after start of combat equal to 25% of opponent's max HP; leaves opponent with at least 1 HP; doesn't stack with similar effects
    • -6 Atk/Def to opponent in combat
    • Reduces opponent's Atk/Def in combat equal to 20% of unit's Def at start of combat
    • Nullifies 50% of opponent's non-Special percentage damage reduction
    • Additional damage equal to 30% of opponent's max HP, excludes AoE Specials
    • Flat damage reduction equal to amount of damage taken by opponent, maximum 20, minimum 10
    • Flat damage reduction when opponent activates Special equal to amount of damage taken by opponent, maximum 20, minimum 10
  • With standard transform condition:
    • Standard armor transform effect
• Sturdy Beast
• Exclusive A skill:
  • At start of turn, if there is at least 1 dragon or beast ally within 2 spaces:
    • Unit transforms or remains transformed
  • At start of turn, if there are no more than 2 non-dragon, non-beast allies within 1 space:
    • Unit transforms or remains transformed
  • If unit is deployed in Aether Raids defense and meets transformation conditions on opponent's first turn:
    • Unit transforms
  • At start of turn and at start of opponent's turn, grants the following status effect to unit and allies within 2 spaces:
    • Dosage
      • +5 to all stats in combat
      • 10 HP recovery after combat
      • If opponent activates "grants unit Bonuses active on opponent" or "removes Bonuses from opponent" while this status effect is active on unit, nullifies those effects on unit and other targets and removes Bonuses from opponent
  • If unit is transformed or with a Stance condition:
    • +10 Atk/Def/Res in combat
    • Nullifies opponent's Atk/Def bonuses
    • Pledge effect
    • Offensive Tempo effect
• Slick Fighter 4:
  • With a Stance condition or if HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
    • -5 Atk to opponent in combat
    • Additional damage equal to 20% of Def, excludes AoE Specials
    • Flat damage reduction equal to 20% of Def, excludes AoE Specials
    • Guaranteed follow-up
    • Penalty nullification
• A/D Twin F Save

Laeradr:

• Weapon:
  • Slaying effect
  • At start of turn, if HP is 25% or higher, inflicts the following status effects on closest enemies and enemies within 2 spaces of them:
    • -7 Def/Res
    • Panic
    • Sabotage
    • Among the enemies targeted, also grants/inflicts the following status effects on melee enemy with lowest Def and ranged enemy with lowest Def:
      • Assign Decoy
      • Flash
  • If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
    • -6 Atk/Def to opponent in combat
    • Reduces opponent's Atk/Def in combat equal to 20% of unit's Res at start of combat
    • -2 Special cooldown before opponent's first attack in combat
    • Flat damage reduction equal to 20% of Res, excludes AoE Specials
    • Flat damage reduction when opponent activates Special equal to 20% of Res, excludes AoE Specials
    • 7 HP recovery after combat
  • With standard transform condition:
    • Standard armor transform effect
• Armored Floe
• Atk/Res Fortune
• Exclusive B skill:
  • At start of turn and at start of opponent's turn, inflicts the following status effects on enemies that are within 2 spaces of another enemy:
    • -7 Atk/Def
    • Discord
  • -5 Atk/Def to opponent in combat
  • Reduces opponent's Atk/Def in combat by 3 times the number of enemies with Discord status effect, including opponent, maximum -9
  • Additional damage equal to 20% of Res, excludes AoE Specials
  • Guaranteed follow-up
  • Nullifies opponent's non-Special percentage damage reduction when Special activates
• Barricade (appears to be a tier-4 upgrade to Close Guard and/or Distant Guard):
  • Melee enemies cannot warp to a space within 3 spaces of unit; enemies with Pass are unaffected
  • Ranged enemies cannot warp to a space within 4 spaces of unit; enemies with Pass are unaffected
  • Grants the following effects to allies within 3 spaces:
    • +4 Def/Res in combat
    • Nullifies Def/Res penalties
  • With a Finish condition:
    • +4 Def/Res in combat
    • Nullifies Def/Res penalties

[Ice Dragon]

Looks like I'll be pulling red and might not even spend my spark on Laeradr. It'll probably depend on how lucky I am with Nidhoggr leading up to the spark. I really wish they'd give us 2 sparks on these banners.

Being a defense Mythic means Laeradr is not terribly high priority, and his skill inheritance value is also not a must have. Barricade is cool, but it's going to be worse than Breath of Life 4 for general use.

That said, Nidhoggr isn't making my job any easier since we don't currently have a skill duplicator that can duplicate all 3 of her premium skills as neither of the armor skill duplicators are beasts and the only beast skill duplicator is still Eitr. I might just have to ignore Sturdy Beast for the time being and hope another unit gets it later down the line since there aren't that many units that can even really make use of it right now.

 

It's a bit disappointing that Nidhoggr's Far Save skill is Atk/Def, which is easily the least useful stat combination for general use. It works for Nidhoggr, but it would've been nice to have gotten Def/Res on her instead of having to continue waiting for it and having it most likely coming on one of the winter banner units that are harder for me to use as skill fodder.

Slick Fighter 4's additional damage and flat damage reduction effects are really nice. It looks like it'll be the go-to B skill for slow armors that need a guaranteed follow-up. If it weren't such a good skill, I'd probably have been disappointed that it wasn't Beast Follow-Up 4 since Fomortiis is still stuck running the Beast Sacred Seal if he wants any shot of having a premium B skill of any kind.

Dosage clearly exists specifically to be a counter to Nergal and Tina. Good riddance.

I also like that Nidhoggr's debuffs also activate after she moves, which is clearly meant to be a counter to Freyr, who shares her season. Now if only we could get that on Elimine sometime soon, but based on the current schedule, we're probably waiting until the March update for her remix. Bleh.

Laeradr's Assign Decoy effect looks like it'll be annoying to deal with. You're either going to have to put your tank 3 squares out from an ally or have units with higher visible Def as supports. On the bright side, Mila shares a season with him and can function in that capacity. Kinda.

 

Anyways, translation notes:

 

Nidhoggr's epithet, "Quieting Dose", is "毒の葬り手" (doku no hōmuri-te), "Silencing Hand of Poison". As usual, "葬る" (hōmuru), means "to bury [a dead body]" and can be used figuratively to mean "to hush" or "to put aside".

Enticing Dose is "毒の葬り手の妖牙" (doku no hōmuri-te no yōga), "Bewitching Fangs of the Silencing Hand of Poison". Compare with her story enemy weapon, Dosing Fang, "毒の葬り手の牙" (doku no hōmuri-te no kiba), "Fangs of the Silencing Hand of Poison".

Divine Toxin is "神獣の猛毒" (shinjū no mōdoku), "Deadly Poison of the Divine Beast".

Dosage is "毒も薬に、薬も毒に" (doku mo kusuri ni, kusuri mo doku ni), "As Poison Can Become Medicine, So Medicine Can Become Poison".

Slick Fighter is "正面隊形・自己" (shōmen taikei: jiko), "Front-Facing Formation: Self". Compare with Wily Fighter, "正面隊形・敵方" (shōmen taikei: tekihō), "Front-Facing Formation: Enemy Side". The kanji for "正面" (shōmen), "front face", can also be read as "matomo", meaning "honest", but it's rare to use the kanji for this word instead of writing it in hiragana as "まとも". However, it's clear that the "honest" meaning is intended to be referenced, as Slick Fighter nullifies the unit's stat penalties and Wily Fighter nullifies the enemy's stat bonuses.

A/D Twin F Save is "鎧の護り手・遠・双" (yoroi no mamori-te: en: sō), "Guardian of the Armor: Far/Dual". As usual, this skill uses the stat indicator used for the Save, Session, and Pulse Up skills, with "鎧" (yoroi), "armor", indicating Atk/Def.

Laeradr's epithet, "Quieting Heart", is "心の葬り手" (kokoro no hōmuri-te), "Silencing Hand of the Heart".

Quieting Branch is "心の葬り手の枝" (kokoro no hōmuri-te no eda), "Branches of the Silencing Hand of the Heart".

Atk/Res Fortune is "攻撃魔防の共栄" (kōgeki mabō no kyōei), "Atk/Res Mutual Prosperity".

Yggdrasill's Alter is "世界樹の半身" (sekaiju no hanshin), "The World Tree's Other Half". Literally "half of the body of the World Tree".

Barricade is "縄張り・守護" (nawabari: shugo), "Territory: Defense". "縄張り" (nawabari), "territory" or "domain", literally translates as "stretching out a rope [to mark one's domain]".

 

I'm disappointed at how boring "Dosage" is as a name.

Edited November 28 by Ice Dragon

[Lemmy]

Also be aware that the upcoming zodiac year is the snake, and as a banner that usually has OCs, Nidhoggr and Gullvieg speculatively stand a high chance at having new units soon.

Not a fan of the other red units, so I'll pass on Nidhoggr this time

[Mercakete]

Okay, is it just me or are these kits crazy? (Seriously; I'm not great at figuring out the effects of these these days. It's just that almost all the skills are new.)

Also, I love that Nidhoggr says "Skal!" XD I live in a location where that's yelled a lot, so it feels really familiar to me - like visiting home during a festive time. (Note: it's not just "cheers" as in, when you drink. It's more like "huzzah" and can be used for drinking, for hype, as general cheering, as a battle cry, etc.) That alone makes me want to summon her. That said, I also want to summon Laeradr. That "make your foes with lower defense take hits" thing (basically anti-savior) is really something. Also, I just really like his design. BUT. I've been summoning on the double special banner and have yet to pull anyone I've been aiming for (though I have gotten several copies of Summer Clanne, which is nice.) Tough. Not sure how I'm going to decide which banner to pull on.

Edit: While I still want a New Years harmonized version of drunk Shinon and Manuela (previously, the only two FE units I know of that you actually see drunk in their home games), I think throwing Nidhoggr into the same banner would also be fun. She'd be encouraging the drunkenness for sure.

Edited Thursday at 01:07 PM by Mercakete

[Diovani Bressan]

I will be sparking on this banner, because it is quite good to me.

🔴 Red looks good to me with Nidhoggr as new mythic and Male Shez which I would like merges. Kvasir is the only problem here, since she is quite meh and her fodder isn't the most amazing. Still, for sure my color priority.

⚪ Colorless has Laeradr as new mythic. I wouldn't mind merges on Loki, and I don't have Sothe. But I could easily stop summoning on it if I get Laeradr early.

🟢 Green is also very good to me. I don't have Camilla and Ninian, and merges for Alear are welcomed.

🔵 Couldn't care less for Blue. For sure not summoning on this color.

[Othin]

I'll definitely be pulling red. Shez M would be the least exciting of the three for me, but he's a strong unit regardless.

[Sunwoo]

Nidhoggr was a fucking mistake

If the LHB for this map isn't Heroes, I don't know if I'll be able to beat it the second time around. Even then, I might not because Attuned Micaiah and Attuned Azura aren't exactly replaceable.

But seriously, the amount of damage reduction Nidhoggr gets is ridiculous. And maybe that would be okay if she didn't just kill most of my units outright, but she does.

[vikingsfan92]

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Nidhoggr was a fucking mistake

If the LHB for this map isn't Heroes, I don't know if I'll be able to beat it the second time around. Even then, I might not because Attuned Micaiah and Attuned Azura aren't exactly replaceable.

But seriously, the amount of damage reduction Nidhoggr gets is ridiculous. And maybe that would be okay if she didn't just kill most of my units outright, but she does.

The map is really annoying to deal with but my eventual solution was to use a combination of flame tiles savage blow and Aoe specials to win. Harmonic Igrun/ Louise was eventually the unit I found to actually land the killing blow. Tried a bunch of other options and finally made it work with her equipped with an Aoe special.

Edited Friday at 10:24 AM by vikingsfan92

[Tybrosion]

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Nidhoggr was a fucking mistake

If the LHB for this map isn't Heroes, I don't know if I'll be able to beat it the second time around. Even then, I might not because Attuned Micaiah and Attuned Azura aren't exactly replaceable.

But seriously, the amount of damage reduction Nidhoggr gets is ridiculous. And maybe that would be okay if she didn't just kill most of my units outright, but she does.

Out of the options I have (which notably doesn’t include Emblem Sigurd), CYL Bernie (just w/her base kit, neutral IVs, no merges or dragonflowers and the Death Blow 3 seal) was the best I could find for Nidhoggr.

On Infernal, Bernie just needed Attuned Azura’s support to one-round Nidhoggr on Turn 1. On Abyssal, Attuned Micaiah’s support was also needed to one-round Nidhoggr on Turn 1.

[Diovani Bressan]

My team for Abyssal was Emblem Ike, Seteth, Gatekeeper and Plumeria. Ike was able to tank everyone and deal with them. He has Fatal Smoke, to counter the Dosage healing.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

(which notably doesn’t include Emblem Sigurd)

My Emblem Sigurd flat-out dies if he tries to attack her, even when she starts the round of combat already at 1 HP. Honestly found that pretty funny.

 

Not sure if changing his build would've helped since I just threw the team together without actually adjusting their builds. Emblem Sigurd is by far the easiest way to chip her HP away with AoE Special damage due to his Special's generous target pattern, but I'm not certain how good he is at actually landing the final blow.

Eikthyrnir had no issue finishing her off, though.

[System Error]

13 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

If the LHB for this map isn't Heroes, I don't know if I'll be able to beat it the second time around. Even then, I might not because Attuned Micaiah and Attuned Azura aren't exactly replaceable.

Oh, I have some bad news for you. And uh, everyone who's interested in them. Limiteds have always held to a pattern since their conception, except when Three Houses and Engage entered the mix and even they simply slotted in. If we take that pattern and follow it? This is going to be a SoV limited. Cross your fingers for a good seasonal and/or focus before April.

And yeah, this was ugly even normally. I managed to set up E!Sigurd to get the kill on the snake at the end; A!Triandra was one of my others, but I definitely could've done better than L!Lilina and especially Fogado. A win's a win, though. And as for the focus, my pulls went fine. Could've gone better (Ascended Amelia eluded me before and here), but can't complain about getting both new mythics.

Edited Friday at 10:04 PM by System Error

[Ice Dragon]

59 minutes ago, System Error said:

Cross your fingers for a good seasonal and/or focus before April.

It's been more than 2 years since the last seasonal unit from Echoes, which was Duo Duma. It's also been just over a year since the last standard banner for Echoes. Chances are we'll at least get something usable in the next few months. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a new Mila alt with all of the new premium armor and dragon skills that they can sell us.

I threw together a team of Brave Alm, Legendary Alm, Emblem Celica, and Rearmed Sonya and managed to get to the end (albeit with a lot of difficulty) where only the bosses were left and I couldn't damage either of them, so it should be doable as long as you can find a unit that can deal 1 damage to them in combat. Both Alms have Windsweep on their weapon, so you can theoretically AoE spam the bosses down to 1 HP eventually.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's been more than 2 years since the last seasonal unit from Echoes, which was Duo Duma. It's also been just over a year since the last standard banner for Echoes. Chances are we'll at least get something usable in the next few months. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a new Mila alt with all of the new premium armor and dragon skills that they can sell us.

I threw together a team of Brave Alm, Legendary Alm, Emblem Celica, and Rearmed Sonya and managed to get to the end (albeit with a lot of difficulty) where only the bosses were left and I couldn't damage either of them, so it should be doable as long as you can find a unit that can deal 1 damage to them in combat. Both Alms have Windsweep on their weapon, so you can theoretically AoE spam the bosses down to 1 HP eventually.

Given it's been so long since Echoes got any seasonal, we might see next year's child banner as a full Echoes sweep (as child banners always are). Echoes was always one of the more suited games for a child banner given it already has its child characters in the game itself. Though, that being said, the regular Shadows of Valentia banner is going to be around the same time. So maybe that'd be too much Valentia.

[Tybrosion]

I think it'll actually be Binding Blade that gets this battle. The next couple of months should be: 

Dec 2024: Three Houses vs. Heidrun & Eikbyrnir
Jan 2025: Blazing Blade vs. Legendary M!Shez
Feb 2025: Engage vs. Emblem Sigurd
Mar 2025: Awakening vs. Hraesvelgr
Apr 2025: Binding Blade vs. Laeradr & Nidhoggr

But hey, at least the other Book VIII Bound Hero Battle should get Three Houses.

58 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Given it's been so long since Echoes got any seasonal, we might see next year's child banner as a full Echoes sweep (as child banners always are). Echoes was always one of the more suited games for a child banner given it already has its child characters in the game itself.

Sure, but IS could instead say "Three Houses" and give us a duo of Young Edelgard & Young Dimitri. It's been almost a year since Edelgard's last alt, after all. If she doesn't get a Resplendent in the near future, then she'll probably get an alt in early 2025.

58 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Though, that being said, the regular Shadows of Valentia banner is going to be around the same time.

That's assuming IS doesn't shelf SoV for a bit, and that's too bold of an assumption for me to take. I don't personally think SoV will get a New Heroes banner until June or July (whichever banner gets a Heroes OC first) at the earliest. Remember, they have such little faith in SoV that they gave its last banner two FEH OCs.

[_Serendipity]

A touch late on this one, but aside from the two mythics the banner colour-share is kinda meh. Nidhoggr seems solid but as an armour on offence she'll be kinda awkward - Laeradr on the other hand seems pretty busted given you won't be able to cleanse his assign decoy status from units like Attuned Miccy, makes me wonder whether people will run him out of season on AR-D solely because of how strong he is 🤔

In any case, managed to summon tree man within 20 summons and put the rest of my orbs to spark on the Ninja Lucy banner. So all in all pretty lucky!

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I'm in agreement with those who do NOT like Nidhöggr or the accompanying battle with her and Læraðr. This is ridiculous and very frustrating. Why IS keeps doing this is beyond me, but I wish they'd just...stop.

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, _Serendipity said:

A touch late on this one, but aside from the two mythics the banner colour-share is kinda meh. Nidhoggr seems solid but as an armour on offence she'll be kinda awkward - Laeradr on the other hand seems pretty busted given you won't be able to cleanse his assign decoy status from units like Attuned Miccy, makes me wonder whether people will run him out of season on AR-D solely because of how strong he is 🤔

I honestly expect to see both of them on defense in both seasons.

Nidhoggr looks almost perfect for corner armor ball stall compositions due to how hard it is to deal damage to her combined with the support utility of Dosage. Her only real disadvantage compared to Duo Fjorm is the lack of Null C-Disrupt, but being able to counterattack all the time is not actually necessary for the team composition.

Laeradr looks frustrating to deal with, but specifically has a support unit for hyper-offensive defense compositions like cavalry lines or teleporting Brave Felix that are capable of threatening a wider area of the map at all once. Defensively, there are wall breakers like Emblem Sigurd that don't have a particularly hard time breaking him, so I think he's best utilized for his Assign Decoy shenanigans.

 

On offense, Nidhoggr's mobility isn't too much of an issue because Thorr now has the same all-movement-type Guidance 4 effect that Ash has on Light season.

Amusingly, if the defense team is using Laeradr off season, Nidhoggr can actually render his Assign Decoy useless if she's paired with a melee tank with more Def than she has, as Assign Decoy will end up going to her and will have no effect (because Assign Decoy specifically states that it cannot activate its Savior effect if the unit already has a skill with the Savior effect equipped, even if they activate at different ranges).

 

2 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I'm in agreement with those who do NOT like Nidhöggr or the accompanying battle with her and Læraðr. This is ridiculous and very frustrating. Why IS keeps doing this is beyond me, but I wish they'd just...stop.

The reason why we keep getting units that are this frustratingly bulky is because we also keep getting units that are frustratingly good at breaking walls.

[System Error]

1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

I think it'll actually be Binding Blade that gets this battle. The next couple of months should be: 

Dec 2024: Three Houses vs. Heidrun & Eikbyrnir
Jan 2025: Blazing Blade vs. Legendary M!Shez
Feb 2025: Engage vs. Emblem Sigurd
Mar 2025: Awakening vs. Hraesvelgr
Apr 2025: Binding Blade vs. Laeradr & Nidhoggr

Hm, now that I look again, they broke the pattern. Heroes wasn't in the last loop for whatever reason (it used to be between SoV and Fates), and that's what my old chart was based off. So it really depends on if it comes back: if it does and stays in, it'll be SoV (and Engage as the last in December). If it stays out, it'll be Binding. And if it's something in between? It could either be Fates or Heroes itself.

Edited Saturday at 02:39 AM by System Error

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

I think it'll actually be Binding Blade that gets this battle. The next couple of months should be: 

Dec 2024: Three Houses vs. Heidrun & Eikbyrnir
Jan 2025: Blazing Blade vs. Legendary M!Shez
Feb 2025: Engage vs. Emblem Sigurd
Mar 2025: Awakening vs. Hraesvelgr
Apr 2025: Binding Blade vs. Laeradr & Nidhoggr

But hey, at least the other Book VIII Bound Hero Battle should get Three Houses.

Sure, but IS could instead say "Three Houses" and give us a duo of Young Edelgard & Young Dimitri. It's been almost a year since Edelgard's last alt, after all. If she doesn't get a Resplendent in the near future, then she'll probably get an alt in early 2025.

That's assuming IS doesn't shelf SoV for a bit, and that's too bold of an assumption for me to take. I don't personally think SoV will get a New Heroes banner until June or July (whichever banner gets a Heroes OC first) at the earliest. Remember, they have such little faith in SoV that they gave its last banner two FEH OCs.

I've been assuming they'd shelve Awakening and Shadows of Valentia for about three years now, but they just keep defying expectations. Now that I assume they won't shelve it they probably will though.