grandjackal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 What Chainey said. Reason being Wolf's better bases being a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 What Chainey said.Reason being Wolf's better bases being a factor. All he's got is 3 LCK (LOL), 2 HP and 1 SPD above Sedgar so that'd be a pretty stupid reason for that. It's probably because even though Sedgar's DEF growth is so damn broken, it's not enough to make a tier difference between the 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 All he's got is 3 LCK (LOL), 2 HP and 1 SPD above Sedgar so that'd be a pretty stupid reason for that. It's probably because even though Sedgar's DEF growth is so damn broken, it's not enough to make a tier difference between the 2. I dunno, but having no chances of being crit > having a chance (2 at base is low...), 2 HP and equal defense means more durability as a general (helps against mages too) and the one speed...yeah, that's more easy mode nitpicking. Better bases are better bases though. More health for the mages helps too. More strength growth lets him soon do more to pesky wyvern knights too. Granted, I don't have 100% certainty of it all, but I'm sure Chainey could explain it better, but we clash on this too anyways. But as you can see, the gap is not so huge as to warrent a whole tier away from eachother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 If you need to know why I think Sedgar and Wolf are fairly even, just read the NM tier topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The first mages you encounter have 20 atk. Both are getting 2 rounded by them. As generals in chapter 6, there's only a VERYYYYYYYY small possibility that Wolf's gonna take more hits to kill than Sedgar. Definitely not because of better bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The first mages you encounter have 20 atk. Both are getting 2 rounded by them. As generals in chapter 6, there's only a VERYYYYYYYY small possibility that Wolf's gonna take more hits to kill than Sedgar. Definitely not because of better bases. It's more concerning later, considering Wolf has 2 more HP and the same growth along with barely leveling any slower than Sedgar. Zagaro's luck is really not great, Jeigan starts with 1 point less and crit's being pulled on him THE FIRST CHAPTER. I highly doubt they aren't pulling crit on Zag 4 chapters later. Wolf at least is risk safe. If we can bust Aran's balls in hard mode for chapter 4 in FE10, I think we can bust Sedgar's balls. He's lugging around his bad luck too for a while as he levels slow despite having a pretty decent growth in luck. To observe and argue these two, it sucks having to go this microscopic. It's Abel vs Cain all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 To observe and argue these two, it sucks having to go this microscopic. It's Abel vs Cain all over again.It's only microscopic for a couple of chapters where both have a Mage disadvantage. Zagaro getting huge defense a bit faster is more important for the physical dominated majority of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) mages don't even exist at the time they join and there's a grand total of two mages in C6. Also, you're really being nitpicky by even bringing in luck. Crits from physical units aren't even going to come close to killing either on the amazingly rare chance that it even happens. Edited March 10, 2009 by Sweet Tooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) It's only microscopic for a couple of chapters where both have a Mage disadvantage. Zagaro getting huge defense a bit faster is more important for the physical dominated majority of the game. Indeed, but I just wish to show they are at least similar enough at least. Hmm...anyone ever given Warrior Wolf a thought? To Sweet Tooth: Maybe, but a crit would damage his durability in a way. He always runs the risk of suddenly not taking as many shots to kill. Wolf isn't. Edited March 10, 2009 by Grandjackal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Hmm...anyone ever given Warrior Wolf a thought? more earlygame suck than COMMISSIONER GORDIN, DEFENDER OF GOTHAM not worth it, at all And you act as if Wolf is totally immune to crits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) more earlygame suck than COMMISSIONER GORDIN, DEFENDER OF GOTHAMnot worth it, at all And you act as if Wolf is totally immune to crits. Better base, better growth, not leveling any slower than Sedgar is...I'm sure there's some things that can crit him, but it's less than Sedgar. As for him and Gordin, lessee...I doubt we're giving kills to the putz that is Gordon, so I doubt he'll be high level so Gordon will not reach his huge HP lead, the speed, OR the strength till like level 16 (LOLOLOLOL). Gordon's got a bit better defense by the time Wolf shows up, but Wolf will have huge HP. Wolf can just use iron to do what gordon was with steel until he picks up speed, every now and then brandishing an axe to bury in an enemy's face (something Gordon can't do). Over all this, he'll gain plenty of strength and garunteed 2 health a level up along with plenty of speed. Why use Gordon past chapter 5 when Wolf can do the same? At chapter 6, he can double the armor knights and the elfire mage (the one that doesn't seem to have listed AS) and fire indirectly at other things with his better move. Noe looking it over though, it does seem it won't help him in the long term anyways... Now looking at it, it is quite horrid, but saying he's worse than Gordon when he shows up and goes warrior...only reason Gordon doesn't fail early on is out of neccesity rather than him actually being good. He's good because everyone not Jeigan sucks anyways. Maybe a couple of levels as a warrior taking bow and axe to things (there ARE pegasi chapter 7...) before going hero...Nah, still not better than general tanking, despite not getting doubled... Edited March 10, 2009 by Grandjackal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 A character being good usually suggests that they're still good to an extent in inferior classes. Social Knights, for example, but rarely ever raises tier positions due to the fact that it's already a given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 A character being good usually suggests that they're still good to an extent in inferior classes. Social Knights, for example, but rarely ever raises tier positions due to the fact that it's already a given. Nyeh...he's better as general anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) not leveling any slower than Sedgar is ...You can't say not ANY slower. It starts showing sooner or later. I'm sure there's some things that can crit him, but it's less than Sedgar. earlygame he'll survive them anyway, latergame he won't even take damage on the off chance it happens, and enemy skill is low overall anyway. Wolf>Zagaro on the sole basis of crits is a pretty preposterous claim, considering it's never an issue. By the time mages actually DO become an issue, Zag's beaten Wolf in HP and caught up in speed. As for him and Gordin, lessee...I doubt we're giving kills to the putz that is Gordon ...you realize the comparison to COMMISSIONER GORDIN was an exaggeration. Warrior Wolf's earlygame is bad, but it's not THAT bad. Edited March 10, 2009 by Sweet Tooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Nyeh...he's better as general anyways.Which is kind of what I implied... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 ...You can't say not ANY slower. It starts showing sooner or later.earlygame he'll survive them anyway, latergame he won't even take damage on the off chance it happens, and enemy skill is low overall anyway. Wolf>Zagaro on the sole basis of crits is a pretty preposterous claim, considering it's never an issue. By the time mages actually DO become an issue, Zag's beaten Wolf in HP. ...you realize the comparison to COMMISSIONER GORDIN was an exaggeration. Warrior Wolf's earlygame is bad, but it's not THAT bad. I have a habit of taking things too literally, so no worries, mkay? But luck is an issue at the start, and he's barely leveling slower than Sedgar is. He's still gonna keep a level lead for a good bit. But I brought it up to get thoughts started in if there's other uses for Wolf other than General, but...nyeh, guess he's being bland and being a Sedgar clone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I have a habit of taking things too literally, so no worries, mkay?But luck is an issue at the start, and he's barely leveling slower than Sedgar is. He's still gonna keep a level lead for a good bit. But I brought it up to get thoughts started in if there's other uses for Wolf other than General, but...nyeh, guess he's being bland and being a Sedgar clone... How is the level lead a good thing in this case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 How is the level lead a good thing in this case? *banging head against the wall* I didn't even think of that x.x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Wolf>Zagaro on the sole basis of crits is a pretty preposterous claim It's not the sole basis though, nor would I back Wolf>Zagaro. I would more back Wolf=Zagaro if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 So...If we have that settled, shall the next chapter's tier be figured out? Don't make me go and make one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 But luck is an issue at the start, no, luck isn't an issue, ever. I just explained why. And 3 more crit avo is amazingly trivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 no, luck isn't an issue, ever. I just explained why. And 3 more crit avo is amazingly trivial. Fine it isn't an issue, but can we all agree they're quite close to equal and move on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 That was agreed a while ago >_>. Only thing that happened is that you suggested it's due to his "higher" bases and I disagreed >_>. Castor below Horace. Poor bases, poor damage and has trouble doubling even as a mercenary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Even as a MERC I have a hard time believing. H5 enemies aren't that hardcore, and if he's having trouble doubling, so is Ogma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) Even as a MERC I have a hard time believing. H5 enemies aren't that hardcore, and if he's having trouble doubling, so is Ogma. Ogma's doubling early because of his base SPD as a Merc: 12 and a not so bad 30% growth to go along with it. Castor's base on the other hand is 10 and you've got enemies with 9 SPD starting in chapter 5, so he non-AKs and mages for a while. You know as well as I do that Ogma struggles to double enemies later in the game and statistically, all that Castor does is simply tie with Merc > Hero Ogma at 20/20 (possibly a little bit before that >_>) everywhere but LCK and HP. Hell, Merc Darros has a durability lead on him at 20/10 (and before that) so why's there such a gap between those 2? Neither of them are doubling much or getting doubled in the late game (not counting those broken Mamkutes). Edited March 10, 2009 by Levin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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