Rodykitty Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Gosh dangit... I'll think about it, but I really wish you guys would resolve something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Darros a risk? Hardly. The guy easily reaches 20 DEF before lvl 20 so RNG screwage on his DEF is unlikely. Also, Horace is just midgame. He's already that high because he's "pre-packaged" to be good and all that jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) As I've said, Horus is not "just midgame". He requires some leveling, true to that in this scenario. Think about it: same amount of level up I put into Darros, I could put into Horus and make Horus pretty good. As I've stated, max Horus is semi-reasonable (17 levels for 13, 14, 16, 17, 17X, 18, and 19 = 2.4 Levels per chapter, which isn't terrible since I've shafted him 1 chapter), and he can stretch a chapter or two to bring the amount of levels down as well. It can be brought down to 16 levels, since --/19 Horus still has the required stats. He's still useful if he's trained only a little bit. Even 11/0 Horus is not terrible, by any means. The DracoKnights and Pegasi can't dent him a whole lot (DracoKnights are 3RKO), he's still got Ridersbane and Silver Bow to accomodate it, and he can still tank some attacks from a Paladin pending on the weapon of choice. His problem isn't terribly difficult to solve. Either a Seraph Robe or a DracoShield can easily work, the latter not getting much use elsewhere, and the former only needed by some units. He's not necessarily needing these, but he can make use of them. EDIT: 20/4 Nabarl by C16. Seems fair or no? Edited June 30, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 I don't really care if Horace can go into the long term. If he can, fine, but I think it's clear that Darros is a better long term unit. The real question is: how useful is Darros before Horace comes. I'm sure Sirius can answer this since he seems to believe he is useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 What I think Jackal was trying to argue in his PM was that training Darros up can be a problem, and that's triggering the "risk". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Horace above Darros for now, since I predict repeating arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capracanis Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) ... This looks like personal experience and the typical noobish approach that just looks at growths and only growths. Great...Killed in 2 rounds... like most people. Immortal later, assuming it's one with good DEF growth like Darros and Kashim. Interesting... you bug AKs for their earlygame and consider Radd's DEF "amazingly high"? What the hell is this shit? Well, yeah. Gordon's growth in defence is significan consider most regular (as in non-knights) have growths in defence under 30%. Growth rates actually play a good role. My Gordin in Endgame, to show you what I mean: Gordin HP - 56 ATK - 17 MAG - 1 SKL - 27 SPD - 24 LUK - 20 DEF - 20 RES - 3 A few stat boost items and he's damn good.Matter of fact, To max everything, (minus res and mag) you'd need 1 Seraph Robe 4 Energy Drops 2 Secret Books 3 Speedwings 5 Goddess Icons 2 Dracoshields The only other two snipers that come close are Catria and Palla (Both max STR, SKL and SPD) but I doubt you'd wanna try using them like that, especially considering their lvel and how late you get them. I donno about you, but that's some damn-good defence. not to mention even if you do max him, you'll still have a good number of toher stat items to use on other characters. On the subject of personal experiance, I'll also tell you the guide as to how to beat H5 is bull. The knights are useless unless you abuse the bosses (wear down the weapons and then train off of them). I've beaten it without having to use any of them. Truth be told, dodging all of the attacks was sheer luck but thank god Marth has ample of that. Now, coming back to the comment about Radd's defence. Compare Radd to Navarre. Radd has a higher defence. The only issue, is like you said with groth ratesLemme give you the states of my end-game Radd and Navarre (No stat boosting items used)/ The growth rates actually played out quite well for me, but don't you all expect it for yourselves. Navarre HP - 60 ATK - 17 MAG - 1 SKL - 26 SPD - 30 LUK - 28 DEF - 12 RES - 3 Radd HP - 60 ATK - 24 MAG - 1 SKL - 22 SPD - 30 LUK - 14 DEF - 20 RES - 3 P.S to IOS, I'm sorry. I mixed up the names Bord and Cord. Maybe Intelligent Systems aren't so smart when they name their characters. Cord has the speed. Bord is a tool. P.P.S Prepromotes fail unless you're jsut using them to do the damage before the weaker guys make the kill for EXP. EDIT: Changed font size so everything's closer and easier to read and not popping out at you. Edited June 30, 2009 by Capracanis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Edit: Wow, I took the bait. Edited June 30, 2009 by Ninji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 at basically everything Gordin fanboy just said. Using a clearly RNG blessed gordin and advocating feeding him stat boosters...then just using 20/20 stats like they're the only thing that matter for Nabarl and Radd...if you don't know the rules, get the hell out of dodge, kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Whether you're a complete failure or a great success depends on whether you're a troll or not. But at least you provided me with some great laughs. I'm literally ROFL'ling at the amount of stat boosters you poured into Gordon. Edited June 30, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think Capra!Gordon can beat the great Zagaro! Has Zag finally met his match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Radd is better than them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capracanis Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Please, stop talking Capracanis.This is a tier list using averages, not personal experience. Due to how random the game's stat ups are, we can't consider what happens to our characters as fact. Edit: How did I fall for the trolling? Wow. Umm...Apperently you have no idea that growth rates play a major role. Navarre's 90% in HP is going to make a huge difference when compared to Gordin's 60% in HP. That being said, Gordin's 30% in DEF growth will also make a difference when compared to Navarre's 10% DEF rate. Now, look at my comparisons from my last post. Navarre endgame and Gordin. There's a 8point difference in favor of Gordin in terms of defence and 4 points for Navarre in terms of HP. Not only is it personal experiance, but it's logic. It's a no brainer that some people had the bad luck of having a Gordin at lv 20 archer with all of his skills under 12. I, personally, once only had his DEF above 12 at lv 20, the reas was around 10-ish. Nothing guarenteed. No to mention the enemies off the start, even in CH1, a single Pirate can kill Draug in one turn or at least leave him with anywhere from 1-4 HP. That's logic. I dare anyone to have Draug attack an pirate off the start and see how much health he's got left. Obviously do not continue as he will die but if anyone should stop talking, it's you. As I said, certain things we only for me. But, as I also keep trying to say: Growth rates do play an important role. I and willing to be my life that by endgame if Marth's lv 30 his luck for anyone will be at least 20. With a 70% chance and 29 levels to climb, 20's the lowest I'll go. So, in terms of personal experiance, yeah, not all of us will be the same, but in terms of logic/growth rates/common sense/DOTHEMATH, I think I win. The fact that Daros and Draug are up-mid is beyond me. You've heard my Draug argument and unless you give Darros an Iron Axe, he'll get double-hit and killed by a single enemy. He also has poor accuracy. That's common sense and can also be seen through anyone's personal experiance as well as the growth rates. Still don't believe me? How's about I tare apart the tier list for ya and show you I'm right, hunh? - Horace - Daros - Roger - Draug - Dolph Should not be in up-mid. As I stated before with Draug, all of the knights will get massacred by a single enemy considering how late you get them. Roger is passable simply for his Luck. with a growth of 80%, you damn-right I'm relying on a percentage. All of the healers should be in up-mid. Wrys, Lena, and Maria. They will level faster than anyone because of all the healing you will do. Then, change them classes and Fire/Thunder/Blizzard the shit out of the lack of enemy RES. As for healers, I generally use Matthis, Vyland and Roshea because they're uselss anyway so they might as well do something. Roshea is actually useable as a mage. He's got a decent magic growth and a great HP rate for a mage. Maybe it's jsut the way I play. I dislike knights. I beat it without using them so I'm biased towards my playing style. P.S: Why the hell am I only the bottem of the Tier list...? I'll ahve you know I kick-ass online. P.P.S: I dislike Gordin. I think he looks like a 12 year-old but you have to admit, when you consider how later you get Catria and Palla, he's the best choice at the moment in terms of ranged because arena abuse get's you killed in H5. I prefer Wolf and Sedgar but in H5 leveling them is a pain in the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Nononon. You're thinking about it wrong, Mustard. Imagine if we applied the same sort of favoritism and RNG blessage to Zagaro. I daresay he could take down Sigurd, Sety, Shanan, and Aless all at once. Wow. Umm...Apperently you have no idea that growth rates play a major role. Apparantly you have no idea that more matters than 20/20 stats, and that we care about averages, not personal experience. Edited June 30, 2009 by GreenHairedDraco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) General!Zagaro would be pierced by the uberness that is Sety. Though I daresay he can take on all the GMs on top of Sigurd and co. One problem could be Sirius!Zagaro (a.k.a his uber Hero Zag), which would make Sety cry in tears. Edited June 30, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 *updates the tier list* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) *updates the tier list* I like Corpacanis!Gordon better, but that works too. EDIT: Shit that title is golden. ;_; EDIT2: Sigg'd. Edited June 30, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Ooh ooh ooh! He's typing up another epic, ladies and gentlemen! Get out the cream soda and Snyders Buffalo Wing pretzals! Corpaconis=Most epic writer since Stephen King. Edited June 30, 2009 by GreenHairedDraco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Jokes aside, my next post is going to be serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capracanis Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'm not going to lie...I've been playing FE for a long time and I have no idea as to what the names you just tossed around mean. I've played the Jap ones but they weren't translated so it was a real bitch... While 20/20 may not matter, you also ahve to consider Wolf and Sedgar, trying to level them. They are probably the best units in-game but the biggest pain in the ass in H5. As for 20/20, I usually just abuse the bosses and by CH5 I've changed Ogma and Gordin, and Draug thanks to the online shop and master seals. I do not use Knights, do not get confused whenI say Draug, in CH4 I found he's alot more useful as a Pirate/Berzerker. I also found that the game is easier if you forge your weapons ever so slightly. About 3 in MT and bringing the Accuracy up to 90 I've fonud makes a difference without wasting too much money. It's pretty hard not to bring in personal experiance into this because what works for some will not work for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 While 20/20 may not matter, you also ahve to consider Wolf and Sedgar, trying to level them. Which isn't a problem? Have you even used them? 13 EXP a head is NOT a huge jump from the 20 odd some most of your other unpromos get by the time they join. hey are probably the best units in-game but the biggest pain in the ass in H5. Agreed. They're the biggest pain in the ass for the enemies to even scratch. As for 20/20, I usually just abuse the bosses and by CH5 I've changed Ogma and Gordin, and Draug thanks to the online shop and master seals. Translation: I am an idiot and I should stay out of tier discussions. n CH4 I found he's alot more useful as a Pirate/Berzerker WHAT IN THE GREAT BALLS OF FIRE HE SAID SOMETHING THATS FUCKING RIGHT ITS NOT LOGICAL CALL CLINT EASTWOOD CALL THE MAFIA CALL AL PACINO WE NEED TO FIGURE THIS ONE OUT AHHHHHHHHHH It's pretty hard not to bring in personal experiance into this because what works for some will not work for all. Missed the point/10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) WHAT IN THE GREAT BALLS OF FIREHE SAID SOMETHING THATS FUCKING RIGHT ITS NOT LOGICAL CALL CLINT EASTWOOD CALL THE MAFIA CALL AL PACINO WE NEED TO FIGURE THIS ONE OUT AHHHHHHHHHH Sorcerer!AGod isn't bad either. Just to say something. Edited June 30, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capracanis Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Agreed. They're the biggest pain in the ass for the enemies to even scratch. Granted, but only as Generals. Translation: I am an idiot and I should stay out of tier discussions. That was just to see how they computer liked the odds being stacked against it. Like Isaid, before, I did it by forging my items with some actual though thought going into the process. WHAT IN THE GREAT BALLS OF FIREHE SAID SOMETHING THATS FUCKING RIGHT Yeah, but that's just Draug. What the hell could you possible Reclass Darros as to make him usefull? Merc? His hp will be total shit. Dolph and Macellan are useful as mercs but the leveling is a pain in the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) EDIT: 20/4 Nabarl by C16. Seems fair or no? Not to single you out Colonel M but I have not a single promoted unit by chapter 16; in fact they're all hanging around 15/0 except for Merric who's at 19/0 =_= How big are these assumed teams? ps guys try not to answer Edited June 30, 2009 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Granted, but only as Generals. ...You conceded that point terribly quickly. Okay, so you agree that Zagaro and Wolf are top tier. I'm glad you agree, now please remove yourself from this thread so people with an inkling of intelligence may post. Yeah, but that's just Draug. What the hell could you possible Reclass Darros as to make him usefull? knight 60% def growth and 12 base=pwn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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