Colonel M Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Most of the time (how I see it) if one character got blessed in a certain area, surely they had to be screwed somewhere else to balance it. For example a RNG blessed Barst could have 14 Spd early on, but it's possible that certain stats were also degraded. I don't mind the Deviations though, it's nice to know the usual range of stats. I think, Vykan, it was just to glance at some random things. I've always thought Barst was the cooler one, but Cord seems to be his superior in Spd... though Barst does have a small edge in having durability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 There is no way the whole RNG Blessed/RNG screwed comparison will ever come to fruitation unless people put serious effort into it or make an app that makes it trivial. It was boring enough formatting all of that. That, and we can just assume that the range for stats can be anything between those in any combination, not all at once (I seriously wouldn't make every possible combination on display). I would still like to look for cases where normally the losing character wins, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Checking RNG Screwed Zag- Oh wait, that can't happen, because you can't get screwed with 160% HP and 110% Def growths. Another reason why he is epic. So let's look at Hero instead [What I always play for Zag due to the epic mid-lategame and not that bad of a start] 20 Hero Blessed: 61.7 HP, 24.2 Str, 30.5 skl, 26.8 spd, 10.9 luck, 25.1 def 20 Hero screwed: 51.3 HP, 18.3 str, 28.3 skl, 24 spd, 4.5 luck, 21.1 def lololoolol, even when screwed he's still epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 You can always get screwed or blessed, even with >100% growths. Assuming screwed and blessed refers to deviations. It'll just deviate differently. The only characters that can't get screwed/blessed are ones with 100% or 0% growths, or start with capped stats/level or something like that. The effect of getting deviations, however, are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) You can always get screwed or blessed, even with >100% growths. when I say "screwed" i'm referring to the aspect that Zag will never get RNG fucked so bad he won't make an epic tank. It's physically impossible for General!Zag to NOT cap out defense by lvl 16, and he'll have at least 45 HP backing it [Never mind how tiny the odds are of missing 15 60% HP in a row are, that's assuming the most extreme case] Edited July 21, 2009 by Norton Sez What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Don't compensation growths come into play as well though? (10% of your growth gets added on every time a stat doesn't level up until it does level up when it resets). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 when I say "screwed" i'm referring to the aspect that Zag will never get RNG fucked so bad he won't make an epic tank. It's physically impossible for General!Zag to NOT cap out defense by lvl 16, and he'll have at least 45 HP backing it [Never mind how tiny the odds are of missing 15 60% HP in a row are, that's assuming the most extreme case] I know what you're talking about, but "screwed" and "blessed" mean under or over the averages, respectively. For example, a 20/0 Rutger with 16 speed would be "screwed" even if it were enough to double everything on the map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) THE RETURN OF TEH RUELZ (Not technically a return due to time travel theories suggesting they never existed). Edited July 21, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Rose Riff to Lower Mid. Rose Vyland to below Minerva (don't remember if he was above or below her). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Care to explain these moves, Chainey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Vyland - Slightly worse than Navarre. Everyone around him moved except him himself. Riff - Nowhere near as much as a detriment as Linde, and has more utility than any of the guys below him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hmhmhm... I think Macellan should rise a little bit. Looking at how he does he isn't going to be hyper-rushed to promotion level. He can easily take the late Master Seal (C19) and still be useful by the time C20 shows around. There's no real need to build that Sword rank and working on the Axe rank is infinitely better. He's being 2RKOed which sort of sucks, but at least offensively he's doing decent (17.9 Str | 20.8 Spd by 20/1). If you want to consider early promotion by Level 15/1 he has about 15 Str | 19.1 Spd, so even an early promotion is possible. I wouldn't go too much earlier than that since he could really use that Fighter growth (though honestly 40% Str growth isn't bad for being a Hero). Fighter seems to be the better route for him. Don't see the major advantage that Dark Mage is bringing IMO. Even so, the question is what some of these chumps are doing better than Macellan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Already tried rising Macellan, but he only got dropped again by pretty much everyone. But I do agree. We need to stop basing him off of Dark Mage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I thought his path was already considered Fighter/Hero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 It was mostly due to confusion. It's better that we try not to shove him too high, but it's not a bad idea to baby step through this. I think I can get people to agree with him going higher, but where he was I'm uncertain he will reach (passing someone like Bord would be difficult). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 I thought his path was already considered Fighter/Hero? Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Ah well, if I can't I can't. Though I might re-focus on Bord and possibly Jeorge (him being at the very bottom of the utility list was where I thought he could land at). It's still cool I found something useful with Macellan though. Also would like to mention that I did add more to my ranking topic though the scores might... upset others. I'm thinking Midia and Macellan especially (I might pit Midia down to 1.5 but I saw sliver potential as a Sniper). Speaking of that, I won't get it done very fast. When I get back I'll try to cram the rest of the cast and then post each rating individually. That way Chainey can link them if he wants to better understand the routes these characters should look at and I guess a small description for them. Still pondering on making a Guide for it altogether. Edited July 22, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 Rena gives accuracy boosts to Beck, apparently. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Rena gives accuracy boosts to Beck, apparently.Discuss. ...Why is Lena near Beck now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Probably casting Physic or something. I'm not going to be changing any tiers over this, but at least it's something that can be done without forging. Edited July 23, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Well, it's another reason to keep her a tier above Wrys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Hammerne alone is pretty much the only thing keeping her a tier above Wrys (Warp Staff spam, etc). A guy on GameFAQs is moaning that she's not higher because of Hammerne. Edited July 23, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Hammerne alone is pretty much the only thing keeping her a tier above Wrys (Warp Staff spam, etc).A guy on GameFAQs is moaning that she's not higher because of Hammerne. Well then cut that bitch off, cause he needs to relax, as Hammerne is indeed the only reason she's a tier above him. ...But still, these supports would...help? I guess?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 Yeah, while pretty situational, so is Beck. It's probably the only time an accuracy boost from supports actually means something. Oh wait, it's Jake, not Beck. I always get them confused. Jake receives supports from Linde and Maria, two units with little better to do. It's too bad it takes five freaking chapters to get a measly +5 from each of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Oh wait, it's Jake, not Beck. I always get them confused. Mekkah bought that one up a while ago. Also, you forgot Shiida and Maria, but lolMaria. I could actually see this turning the tables to Jake>Beck, despite what most initially thought, as just one of these supports is canceling out Beck's base accuracy win [And it would be seriously sandbagging Jake to not think at LEAST two would usually be in play], then we consider that Jake can gain one or two levels pre-Beckage and now he's winning. Then there's Jake's positive utility for a few chapters Beck doesn't have [And Beck doesn't get any brownie points at all for Thunderbolt in C13 because he can just throw it to Jake, who can rape shooters and NOT be restricted to cliffs] Speaking of shooters, I wouldn't consider it serious favoritism to throw some secret books on the one you're using: They need the accuracy way more than anybody else. Edit: Here, to clarify. Jake's supports need five chapters to activate. I'm pretty damn sure 11 counts as one, and this is only giving him one support. 11 12 12x 13 after 13, why Jake>Beck there was already covered, he's getting at least one C support, which means "Where did Beck's hit lead go?" Now there's REALLY no doubt in my mind that Jake>Beck, and that's ignoring his superior performance in three chapters. Edited July 23, 2009 by Norton Sez What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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