grandjackal Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Est does 0x2 damage to armors. Oops. So does Arran, unless you feel Arran could take him on even with Silver. Look at his Str, the difference is literally 2 Str between him and Est. Let's just forget these are few and far between, and that neither have business against them. You seriously gonna make armors a deciding point? Edited August 23, 2009 by Robo Ky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Uhh, Arran is doing better against armors than most enemies, or at least the ones in Chapters 16-17x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Uhh, Arran is doing better against armors than most enemies, or at least the ones in Chapters 16-17x. He's doing 3x2 damage to mostly their 37 HP, a 16RKO. Remind me to care later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Did you not read my post at all, or even use common sense here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Depends, were you assuming that being shitty against them regardless was a mattering win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) My point is that IT'S NOT A SIXTEEN ROUND KO. He's doing way more than 3 damage per hit. Armors only hover around a dozen Defense. I don't care who is winning this. Stop being so damn wrong. Edited August 23, 2009 by Brawl Sheeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I don't see why Sniper was never used in any of the above comparisions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Because Lance using classes offer the highest amount of damage possible for Arran for Horse Slayers, while he is forced to use Steels for some time if he goes Sniper. Not that it matters, since we don't need statistical comparisons to know he'll do better as Sniper. Even then though, I found that Steels are similar in Mt to Javelins, so it's likely still not going to be a 16RKO against Armors. Edited August 23, 2009 by Brawl Sheeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) My point is that IT'S NOT A SIXTEEN ROUND KO. He's doing way more than 3 damage per hit. Armors only hover around a dozen Defense. I don't care who is winning this. Stop being so damn wrong. 8+13=21, by now they got around 13 def. 21-13=8x2=16=2=32<37. Even with silver, he's still 3RKOing, of which they are 2RKOing him in return. I still wouldn't put him anywhere near them regardless. Even if they had 11 defense... I don't see why Sniper was never used in any of the above comparisions... Because 2 more damage than Est is not impressing anybody. Edited August 23, 2009 by Robo Ky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 8+13=21, by now they got around 13 def. 21=13=8x2=16=2=32<37. Even with silver, he's still 3RKOing, of which they are 2RKOing him in return. I still wouldn't put him anywhere near them regardless. Even if they had 11 defense...3RKO =/= 16RKO. I'm glad you conceded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 8+13=21, by now they got around 13 def. 21=13=8x2=16=2=32<37. Even with silver, he's still 3RKOing, of which they are 2RKOing him in return. I still wouldn't put him anywhere near them regardless. Even if they had 11 defense...3RKO =/= 16RKO. I'm glad you conceded. He's STILL in the negative -_-;; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 I don't freaking care. I just made a post showing Arran's performance against Armors, and then you guys make the most ridiculous claim that he's somehow doing 3 damage per hit against them. I made that post to be read, not ignored and followed up by baseless assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Because Lance using classes offer the highest amount of damage possible for Arran for Horse Slayers, while he is forced to use Steels for some time if he goes Sniper. Not that it matters, since we don't need statistical comparisons to know he'll do better as Sniper. Even then though, I found that Steels are similar in Mt to Javelins, so it's likely still not going to be a 16RKO against Armors. Sniper has several other advantages, though... You know the 16 AS guys like the Sniper and Draco that double him? 13 AS lets him crawl out of that, and gives effective boost back to the flier...He could crawl into Sniper should the situation call for it. Because 2 more damage than Est is not impressing anybody. Arran's was previously at the bottom of fucking bottom tier. I think we're well aware he doesn't impress anybody. Edited August 23, 2009 by Miyamoto Powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Because Lance using classes offer the highest amount of damage possible for Arran for Horse Slayers, while he is forced to use Steels for some time if he goes Sniper. Not that it matters, since we don't need statistical comparisons to know he'll do better as Sniper. Even then though, I found that Steels are similar in Mt to Javelins, so it's likely still not going to be a 16RKO against Armors. Sniper has several other advantages, though... You know the 16 AS guys like the Sniper and Draco that double him? 13 AS lets him crawl out of that, and gives effective boost back to the flier...He could crawl into Sniper should the situation call for it. Yeah. This is one of those things that comparisons aren't really necessary to show, since Est has no way to compare. EDIT: Okay, I admit. This is just an excuse for my laziness.Oh, and @Grandjackal: The damage gap is actually 3. I need to edit my post to reflect this though. Edited August 23, 2009 by Brawl Sheeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 the damage gap is actually six Arran has Steel bows initially, Est does not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Javelin + Weapon Rank Bonus is pretty much a Steel Bow damage wise, so there's that, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Does the fact that she can actually improve in some way being lost here? He's doing so minorly better at first, I mean come on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 It's clear that both are almost incapable of killing without dying. Good luck actually getting the level ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 It's clear that both are almost incapable of killing without dying. Good luck actually getting the level ups. Est actually gains something from killing. Advantage Est. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Can she gain enough to surpass Arran? I mean, you can gain something from robbing Fort Knox, but good luck actually pulling it off. And look, Est just gained a level. Now you have to go through the babying required to give her a kill without her dying again, and that level up may not be enough for her to start getting kills on her own yet, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) 9 levels prior for her to still level fast, she has this. 30 HP, 13 Str, 13 Skill, 19 Speed (doubling paladins), 15 Luck, 10 Def. 1 more level, she can survive a brave assault. Arran can't possibly meet these standards, and she's STILL leveling faster. Difference is with her lowered level, this is 2 extra levels rather than 4. This is from my post about 2 pages ago. Right now I'm on the Camus chapter, and I'm pretty close to it. Kills get her boatloads, the ridersbane kills in 18, and the mercs in 19 give her an easier time. Edited August 23, 2009 by Robo Ky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Acknowledge that taking counters results in death (much like my post shows), meaning that she can't simply attack anything hoping for a kill. Yes, she'll gain a level from killing, but she won't be getting many kills due to how things are stacked so much against her. 9 is a lot in this case. And even if she does get a level up, enemies will only get stronger the next chapter. Then Braves come and it only becomes increasingly difficult to score a level up. I'm sorry, but nine levels is way too much. This doesn't mean that there isn't a chance for Arran to drop below her. There is still the Triangle Attack, though I don't think most feel that it's significant enough to matter, and I myself am not willing to hype it. Heck, even with the Triangle Attack we can't assume Est is getting all of the EXP, and has to share it with her sisters. Edited August 23, 2009 by Brawl Sheeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 If she promotes by chapter 20, isn't she basically doing what Paladin Arran is doing to enemy Paladins (hitting with Riders bane and getting killed easily)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Acknowledge that taking counters results in death (much like my post shows), meaning that she can't simply attack anything hoping for a kill. Yes, she'll gain a level from killing, but she won't be getting many kills due to how things are stacked so much against her. 9 is a lot in this case. And even if she does get a level up, enemies will only get stronger the next chapter. Then Braves come and it only becomes increasingly difficult to score a level up. I'm sorry, but nine levels is way too much. Yes, Arran is doing so much better (as you...proved he basically wasn't way back when). You also seem to imply that somehow, Arran is simply able to kill thins by running up to them and smacking them in the face. This is absolute garbage tier. Neither are getting anything without favoritism. Here's what we get with favoring them. Est-Improvement and Kills Arran-Kills If 9 levels is too much, fine. 7 should be a bit easier, it still would only take two levels after promotion. Also, level 10 going draco. 25 HP, 15.9 speed (thus, very likely to be 16), 13 Def Able to survive a Sword Brave naturally, and able to survive a 27 ATK brave assault if we equip her with axes (27-2-13=12, 12x2=24<25). As a Sniper, she's able to not only avoid being doubled by horsemen, she can withstand their 23 ATK assaults with her 29 HP and 10 Def. Arran needs 6 levels to pull this off. On top of this, she would likely have B lances, of which she'd have 25 ATK with her 12 Str, along with ridersbane. By the time we get to the braves, she's actually capable of doing better. What's Arran got on her now? Edited August 23, 2009 by Robo Ky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 I never said Arran is doing anything special. I said that she may not get the levels needed to surpass his level of suck, because both of them are almost incapable of killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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