So on a scale of 1-10, how hard is Thracia 776?

[Seph]

Holyn/Bridget is the best, but not my favorite. And who said you need to train Deu to pair him up with Bridget? Though I do train him.

You need to watch out for Deu, which sucks.

Bargain makes Patty's job easier, and Deu's growths is nice. The problem is how to train him.

Hero Sword and a higher level and Moonlight Sword makes Patty's job much easier compared to Bargain.

Just because you already found best pairings that doesn't mean that you can't try another one.

This is a debate about efficiency, so Holyn!Patty please.

And while Ichival is the second worst Holy Weapons (hi, Valkyie Staff), a Holy Weapon is a Holy Weapon. They are better than most weapons, so why not? >.>

A Valkyrie Staff is not a weapon.

And Ichival is probably worse than a Hero Sword. No enemy phase action...

Return Staff and Relive Staff are better choices. She can use C staves, abuse it. >.>

Lana also wants to abuse those. Trading is such crap in FE4.

And besides... Nanna is on a mount, so she'd make a decent fighter and she'd be useful with her Charisma and all.

[Fia]

You need to watch out for Deu, which sucks.

Do you need a Sniper in 1st Gen? If yes, shouldn't Jamka already fill the spot? Let Bridget stay behind then.

Hero Sword and a higher level and Moonlight Sword makes Patty's job much easier compared to Bargain.

Her job as a Thief, not a fighter you know... >.>

As a thief, she doesn't need to kill, she only needs to hit... >.>

A Valkyrie Staff is not a weapon.

And Ichival is probably worse than a Hero Sword. No enemy phase action...

It's still a Holy Weapon.

And I said "MOST". >.>

Lana also wants to abuse those. Trading is such crap in FE4.

And besides... Nanna is on a mount, so she'd make a decent fighter and she'd be useful with her Charisma and all.

Rana can have the Warp Staff.

Staff abuse is easier and safer to do. >.>

Edited February 7, 2009 by Aida

[Seph]

Do you need a Sniper in 1st Gen? If yes, shouldn't Jamka already fill the spot? Let Bridget stay behind then.

Which means less kills, and getting more kills is essential if you want to complete faster.

Her job as a Thief, not fighter you know... >.>

Funny how she has to fight to steal cash.

As a thief, she doesn't need to kill, she only needs to hit... >.>

Very risky since she will be weak without Hero Sword + Moonlight Hit, which allows her to help clear the Arena, which is very nice.

Rana can have the Warp Staff.

Warp Staff is pretty expensive.

Staff abuse is easier and safer to do. >.>

With the Hero Sword in the Arena and outside, Nanna will be kicking ass just fine.

[Fia]

Which means less kills, and getting more kills is essential if you want to complete faster.

Wait, what? I don't think Bridget is that useful in 1st Gen. O.o

Funny how she has to fight to steal cash.

Lolwindsword.

Very risky since she will be weak without Hero Sword + Moonlight Hit, which allows her to help clear the Arena, which is very nice.

Patty always starts off weak anyway. While all of that Holyn's stuffs are nice, Deu!Patty is also fine. It's not like she will be completely unable to use just because her father is Deu. Heck, Deu!Patty is better than Jamka!Patty which most people use in their first play.

Warp Staff is pretty expensive.

Recover Staff can help. And it's not a problem with Bargain Ring. BEFORE you said anything about Shanan getting the ring, get it in the the 1st gen please? It's not hard to do.

With the Hero Sword in the Arena and outside, Nanna will be kicking ass just fine.

As I said, Staff abusing is safer and faster, therefore better.

[Seph]

Wait, what? I don't think Bridget is that useful in 1st Gen. O.o

It helps efficiency, and Ichival is still a good weapon even though it's a bow. She will be useful in Chapter 5.

Lolwindsword.

What nonsense. It still means that she can't go up to the enemy and attack, meaning that she needs protection. Without Hero Sword and Moonlight hit, so she needs protection. Needing protection is a bad thing.

Patty always starts off weak anyway. While all of that Holyn's stuffs are nice, Deu!Patty is also fine. It's not like she will be completely unable to use just because her father is Deu. Heck, Deu!Patty is better than Jamka!Patty which most people use in their first play.

Convenient that you ignored she can fix it easily with Holyn as the father.

Yes, Dew is better than Jamka. But Holyn is better than both.

Recover Staff can help. And it's not a problem with Bargain Ring. BEFORE you said anything about Shanan getting the ring, get it in the the 1st gen please? It's not hard to do.

She has crap move for Warp + Recover.

Bargain Ring? I laughed. Lana is getting the Bargain Ring? How can she even buy it?

Any holy weapon user wants the Bargain Ring more.

As I said, Staff abusing is safer and faster, therefore better.

Nanna with a mount improves a lot with the Hero Sword, therefore making her a great choice for it since she can go to a lot of places.

You still want an extra fighter. Why not?

Edited February 7, 2009 by Alvis

[Fia]

It helps efficiency, and Ichival is still a good weapon even though it's a bow. She will be useful in Chapter 5.

Eh? I don't think so. And people prefer to solo with Levin in Chapter 5 too.

That nonsense. It still means that she can't go up to the enemy and attack, meaning that she needs protection. Without Hero Sword and Moonlight hit, so she needs protection. Needing protection is a bad thing.

Your priest and dancer need protection and that don't make them bad. Thief isn't originally to be a total fighter, IMO.

And you think I didn't protect her when she is Holyn's daughter? You make Deu!Patty sounds so horrible here, when she is not. She is good, while not as good as Holyn!Patty but still good. It's worth to try her.

Convenient that you ignored she can fix it easily with Holyn as the father.

Yes, Dew is better than Jamka. But Holyn is better than both.

IT'S BORING TO PLAY WITH THE SAME PAIRINGS EVERYTIME. I agree Holyn is better, but people can also try Deu if they want another option.

It helps efficiency, and Ichival is still a good weapon even though it's a bow. She will be useful in Chapter 5.

What nonsense. It still means that she can't go up to the enemy and attack, meaning that she needs protection. Without Hero Sword and Moonlight hit, so she needs protection. Needing protection is a bad thing.

Convenient that you ignored she can fix it easily with Holyn as the father.

Yes, Dew is better than Jamka. But Holyn is better than both.

She has crap move for Warp + Recover.

Bargain Ring? I laughed. Lana is getting the Bargain Ring? How can she even buy it?

Any holy weapon user wants the Bargain Ring more.

But she is the main healer in 2nd Gen.

Edin is the one to buy it. GET IT IN THE FIRST GEN.

How many Holy Weapon users in the 1st Gen? Sigurd doesn't need it. Levin can survive with ElWind. And you don't use Bridget that much. Bargain Ring is for your Staff user (main healer).

Shanan/Ares can live with Thief Sword/Ring.

Nanna with a mount improves a lot with the Hero Sword, therefore making her a great choice for it since she can go to a lot of places.

You still want an extra fighter. Why not?

I will use her after I promote her, which is after I abuse her Staves. And you have enough (better) fighter already, Nanna's main purpose is as a mounted healer, not fighter.

[Seph]

I am going to stop posting in order to not derail the thread after this.

Eh? I don't think so. And people prefer to solo with Levin in Chapter 5 too.

If that was the case, then debates as a whole would be pointless. It forces you to use one character and doesn't show the usefulness of one character in relative to others.

Your priest and dancer need protection and that don't make them bad. Thief isn't originally to be a total fighter, IMO.

Not needing protection >>>>> needing protection. I don't see how anyone can deny this.

And you think I didn't protect her when she is Holyn's daughter? You make Deu!Patty sounds so horrible here, when she is not. She is good, while not as good as Holyn!Patty but still good. It's worth to try her.

You only have to protect her for a short time. Once she trains up a little, she shouldn't have many problems at all.

IT'S BORING TO PLAY WITH THE SAME PAIRINGS EVERYTIME. I agree Holyn is better, but people can also try Deu if they want another option.

Where did you get the idea that the same pairing is going to be used multiple times?

It's just to show which one is more efficient, anyway.

But she is the main healer in 2nd Gen.

Way to go wasting the Bargain Ring.. the Bargain Ring is very expensive to buy.

Edin is the one to buy it. GET IT IN THE FIRST GEN.

What?

How many Holy Weapon users in the 1st Gen? Sigurd doesn't need it. Levin can survive with ElWind. And you don't use Bridget that much. Bargain Ring is for your Staff user (main healer).

Eddin can get plenty of cash from her lover, thank you. And she can start fighting in the Arena later on.

You fail to realise that buying a Bargain Ring is a pain in the ass for holy weapon users. The logic itself is pure nonsense, and nothing more.

I will use her after I promote her, which is after I abuse her Staves. And you have enough (better) fighter already, Nanna's main purpose is as a mounted healer, not fighter.

An extra, competent fighter is always a good thing.

And look at it this way. With a Hero Sword, she doesn't have to be afraid of enemies; so with her mount, she can heal more reliably.

[Fia]

Not needing protection >>>>> needing protection. I don't see how anyone can deny this.

Indeed, but you don't put you thief in the front line right?

You only have to protect her for a short time. Once she trains up a little, she shouldn't have many problems at all.

Where did you get the idea that the same pairing is going to be used multiple times?

It's just to show which one is more efficient, anyway.

The same case with Deu!Patty. While she isn't as good as Holyn!Patty, she can protect her own self, thank you.

Way to go wasting the Bargain Ring.. the Bargain Ring is very expensive to buy.

What?

Edin is the one to buy it, and then she can pass it down to Rana.

You don't know thet you can get Bragain Ring in 1st Gen? :o

Eddin can get plenty of cash from her lover, thank you. And she can start fighting in the Arena later on.

The same applies to Rana.

You fail to realise that buying a Bargain Ring is a pain in the ass for holy weapon users. The logic itself is pure nonsense, and nothing more.

Thief Ring can answer your problem. And you use Staves more than Holy Weapons, right? :3

An extra, competent fighter is always a good thing.

And look at it this way. With a Hero Sword, she doesn't have to be afraid of enemies; so with her mount, she can heal more reliably.

Indeed, but with all the better fighters you have, I don't think you will use her at all. Extra healer with Charisma, that's her role.

And I need to stop too, before I lost my temper... >.>

[Seph]

Indeed, but you don't put you thief in the front line right?

The fact is, Patty can afford to go to the front line a lot more when Holyn is her father.

Not Dew.

The same case with Deu!Patty. While she isn't as good as Holyn!Patty, she can protect her own self, thank you.

She will have a hard time in doing so. She will rarely get any kills in and out of the Arena. It's simply tough to train her.

With Holyn, that's not the case.

And no, I'm not going to listen to your abuse, because that's not a part of the game.

Edin is the one to buy it, and then she can pass it down to Rana.

Sure you can. But why not pass it to someone who can use it better? Levin!Arthur is a really good choice.

You don't know thet you can get Bragain Ring in 1st Gen?

I know, and so what? Lana is barely making any use of the Bargain Ring.

Thief Ring can answer your problem. And you use Staves more than Holy Weapons, right? :3

Thief Ring is only good for one character. A Bargain Ring can serve one more character.

I use them equally.

Indeed, but with all the better fighters you have, I don't think you will use her at all. Extra healer with Charisma, that's her role.

In an efficient game, you will want to use as many characters as possible in order to complete faster and kill more enemies.

[Fia]

The fact is, Patty can afford to go to the front line a lot more when Holyn is her father.

Not Dew.

She will have a hard time in doing so. She will rarely get any kills in and out of the Arena. It's simply tough to train her.

With Holyn, that's not the case.

And no, I'm not going to listen to your abuse, because that's not a part of the game.

...Deu!Patty isn't that worse compared to Holyn!Patty you know? Lower HP and SKL, and no B rank Sword. She doesn't really depend on Hero Sword to be usable...

Sure you can. But why not pass it to someone who can use it better? Levin!Arthur is a really good choice.

You are going to rely on Holsety all the time?

I know, and so what? Lana is barely making any use of the Bargain Ring.

Main healer/staff user needs it the most.

Thief Ring is only good for one character. A Bargain Ring can serve one more character.

I use them equally.

What? What? Thief Ring is usable to anyone. O.o

In an efficient game, you will want to use as many characters as possible in order to complete faster and kill more enemies.

That's not really necessary if you can have so many one-man army units in your party. =<

[Seph]

...Deu!Patty isn't that worse compared to Holyn!Patty you know? Lower HP and SKL, and no B rank Sword. She doesn't really depend on Hero Sword to be usable...

Yes she does. Since Deu!Patty is at a lower level, she also has lower HP and defence and durability than Holyn!Patty.

Holyn!Patty is much, much better.

You are going to rely on Holsety all the time?

Main healer/staff user needs it the most.

No, but you cannot deny it is way, way better than Lana.

Staves don't cost as much as holy weapons. Not giving a Bargain Ring to a holy weapon user is simply a bad thing.

What? What? Thief Ring is usable to anyone. O.o

Yes, but buying that Thief Ring costs so very much, so it should stick to one person.

That's not really necessary if you can have so many one-man army units in your party. =<

Inefficient and that takes a longer time.

[Fia]

Yes she does. Since Deu!Patty is at a lower level, she also has lower HP and defence and durability than Holyn!Patty.

Holyn!Patty is much, much better.

Not that much. And Deu!Patty's defense is BETTER than Holyn!Patty.

The only significant differences here are the weapon rank and huge HP. That's all.

No, but you cannot deny it is way, way better than Lana.

Staves don't cost as much as holy weapons. Not giving a Bargain Ring to a holy weapon user is simply a bad thing.

Priests need their money more. Holy Weapon users hardly have problem with money, unless you keep on relying on the Holy Weapons only.

Yes, but buying that Thief Ring costs so very much, so it should stick to one person.

Whut? Thief Ring and Bargain Ring cost the same price, 40k.

Inefficient and that takes a longer time.

Yet, people love to do it.

[Seph]

Not that much. And Deu!Patty's defense is BETTER than Holyn!Patty.

Incorrect. They are not at the same level.

The only significant differences here are the weapon rank and huge HP. That's all.

Moonlight Hit doesn't count anymore?

Priests need their money more. Holy Weapon users hardly have problem with money, unless you keep on relying on the Holy Weapons only.

How do priests need more money? Holy Weapons cost 50000 to repair fully. Together will all the other holy weapons, it will not be too easy to repair. While it is definitely not hard, it is still more important to repair a holy weapon than a staff which you abuse with.

After all, it is more efficient to repair a holy weapon, and not a Warp.

A priest can also find a lover quickly. Priests really don't need a Bargain Ring that much.

Whut? Thief Ring and Bargain Ring cost the same price, 40k.

That's not my point. The point is, selling the Bargain Ring from a staff user then buying it with a holy weapon user is a terrible thing. It costs 40k to buy, and a holy weapon user wants to put repairing first.

Yet, people love to do it.

This is about efficiency, not what people like to do.

If we debated on what people liked to do, then we could say that "Sety can solo the entire game with Holsety!" or "Beat Julius in Chapter 10!" even though it is clearly less efficient. Things like that cannot be in a debate.

[Fia]

Incorrect. They are not at the same level.

...Deu!Patty has 40 DEF growth and Holyn!Patty is 35...

Moonlight Hit doesn't count anymore?

Ah, yes, I suppose it should be added here. Though truthfully, I'm not a fan of Moonlight Hit, I can live without it after all. Unlike Shooting Star. *drowns self*

How do priests need more money? Holy Weapons cost 50000 to repair fully. Together will all the other holy weapons, it will not be too easy to repair. While it is definitely not hard, it is still more important to repair a holy weapon than a staff which you abuse with.

After all, it is more efficient to repair a holy weapon, and not a Warp.

Why do you think you abuse staves in the first place? To level up your staff users (like Priest, Princess and Troubadour). They can't fight, where can you get the money then? At least Holy Weapon users can fight without their Holy Weapons to gather some money first.

A priest can also find a lover quickly. Priests really don't need a Bargain Ring that much.

The same thing applies to Holy Weapon users. Heck, the same thing applies to anyone here. >.>

This is about efficiency, not what people like to do.

If we debated on what people liked to do, then we could say that "Sety can solo the entire game with Holsety!" or "Beat Julius in Chapter 10!" even though it is clearly less efficient. Things like that cannot be in a debate.

I honestly believe that most people don't play FE4 efficiently then.

K, this is my absolute last reply to this debate. Or else I could got blamed for derailing another topic, yet again. ;-;

Edited February 7, 2009 by Aida

[Seph]

...Deu!Patty has 40 DEF growth and Holyn!Patty is 35...

As Holyn!Patty has Moonlight Hit and Hero Sword, she has a higher level, resulting in more defence.

I am going to be extremely generous. If Patty!Holyn is at level 4, then Patty!Dew is at level 2. Patty!Dew has 3 def at level 2, while Patty!Holyn has 5 def at level 4.

The same thing applies to Holy Weapon users. Heck, the same thing applies to anyone here. >.>

Holy weapon users need a Bargain Ring a lot more than some healer.

I honestly believe that most people don't play FE4 efficiently then.

In a debate, the opposite must be done.

Edited February 7, 2009 by Alvis

[Rodykitty]

Yeah, just be thankful that it has a withdraw option in that game unlike the original game of Marth'.

You can also choose what you want to fight by changing the value of the bet on top of that. There is absolutely no reason to be fighting dragons and such in the arena, and every reason to be fighting enemies that get doubled and miss often. FE3 is likely tied for the easiest arena to abuse, if only because FEDS is almost the same retardedness.

Not to mention various ORBS that make it even EASIER thanks to stupidly high growths and in Book 2 the Life Orb recovering your HP every turn.

Whoever said that Monshou's arena was cruel just failed, hard.

You can find a copy of the actual cart in this site.

http://japangamestock.com/

That's where I got my copy from.

!! A reasonable price! I'll be definitely getting FE5 here! Thank you!