Mekkah Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Nomads actually only have 18 atk. 20/1 Ward with his 50 hp/11 def takes 14 damage per round here, which is only a 4RKO. If he has B Dieck/B Lot (minimum), that turns into 10 damage per round, a 5RKO. 20/1 Geese with just C Echidna/C Lalum has 46 hp/14 def, taking 8 damage per round, a 6RKO. Per comparison, 20/5 Rutger has the same hp/def as 20/1 Geese, but doesn't get doubled, so it's a 12RKO on him. Nonetheless, they are vastly overrated attacking threats imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) Saul with A Dorothy and B Ellen or C Cecilia gets 4RKOd by nomads just at base promotion. 3RKOs them with basic lightning in return with 88-80 displayed hit. 23 crit before their minor luck is taken into account. Ellen needs to be level 20/6 (entirely possible) with that support to avoid being one rounded by just basic nomads. This support also destroys any chance of crit the nomads may have on him. With these supports, he has enough avoid to get 56 displayed hit from them. Not great, but not bad either considering. He can double the wyvern riders, though he needs 2 more speed points to double lords. In case you thought Saul would be bad here. Helps a unit who's great here perform better, helps another survive through it easier, and doesn't behave too badly himself. Saul is surprisingly pretty godly here. Without supports though? 3RKOd and has atleast 12 crit displayed onhim constantly... EDIT: Seems Mekkah went ninja and summed up my thoughts on this already. Edited June 24, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Saul normally gets 2HKOed by things with lances and axes, so Sacae actually isn't too bad on him. The issue with Sacae is needing offense, due to Nomads rarely taking damage on enemy phase, and being hard to hit for the people who hit the hardest. Well, and Nomad Troopers, especially bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 The boses are scary as fuck in Sacae. Brave weapons and high-ass Avoid rates that almost range to 80. You tell me how easy THAT is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) Saul normally gets 2HKOed by things with lances and axes, so Sacae actually isn't too bad on him. The issue with Sacae is needing offense, due to Nomads rarely taking damage on enemy phase, and being hard to hit for the people who hit the hardest. Well, and Nomad Troopers, especially bosses. He might not 2RKO, but considering he is pulling 88-80 displayed just at promotion base (you know, he could easily be higher), he's at least being incredibly useful. His hit helps with these others, though he's not doing too much damage. Speaking of bosses, if light brand takes resistance into account? Kel can't even hurt Saul. The boses are scary as fuck in Sacae. Brave weapons and high-ass Avoid rates that almost range to 80. You tell me how easy THAT is? Accurate range (Archers) and boss slayer units get LOTS of love here. Maybe Wolt's durability actually makes sense here, but I'd still think it's not enough to lift him up much. He still gets doubled, so the other archers make up for it with that. Is it just me, or do I see Ward rising even more? Also lol, triangle attack boss slaying with the Ostians, lololololol. Too funny, too useless. Edited June 24, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A2ZOMG Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) srsly I'm gonna complain again, Barth is way too high. He has zero offense and no reliable support options (except on the chapter he joins if you field Bors, since the triangle attack is somewhat useful). His move sucks. And he gets doubled all the time. And because he gets doubled all the time, his durability is one of the worst on the team. Mages oneround him, and so do Mercs with Armorslayers. Axe wielders are a nightmare for him and his zero offense. The steel axe ones have so much attack that his defense doesn't even matter vs them because they'll kill him regardless because he has zero evade. 90% of the time those few enemies that he gets to tank are mixed in with stuff that rapes him hard. His hit with a Slim Lance only just manages to break 60 on most enemies, and his damage output is piss poor with it since he never doubles anything. Anything less than 5 move is a major problem to maneuver since it takes 4 move to maneuver around an obstacle that you are next too. And then I mentioned his zero offense and the fact he gets doubled all the time...srsly wtf? Bors actually gets to do stuff, since he joins earlygame where enemies have a bit less evade, and then his high con actually matters for the occasional rescue drop combo on those smaller but more difficult earlygame maps. And then Bors actually stops getting doubled by certain enemies after he's used a while due to his lol40speed growth. And if you even bother promoting him, Bors actually has existent offense since his skill and luck growth actually exist, while Barth pretty much always has zero offense. Edited June 24, 2009 by A2ZOMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 srsly I'm gonna complain again, Barth is way too high.He has zero offense and no reliable support options (except on the chapter he joins if you field Bors, since the triangle attack is somewhat useful). His move sucks. And he gets doubled all the time. And because he gets doubled all the time, his durability is one of the worst on the team. Mages oneround him, and so do Mercs with Armorslayers. Axe wielders are a nightmare for him and his zero offense. The steel axe ones have so much attack that his defense doesn't even matter vs them because they'll kill him regardless because he has zero evade. 90% of the time those few enemies that he gets to tank are mixed in with stuff that rapes him hard. His hit with a Slim Lance only just manages to break 60 on most enemies, and his damage output is piss poor with it since he never doubles anything. Anything less than 5 move is a major problem to maneuver since it takes 4 move to maneuver around an obstacle that you are next too. And then I mentioned his zero offense and the fact he gets doubled all the time...srsly wtf? Bors actually gets to do stuff, since he joins earlygame where enemies have a bit less evade, and then his high con actually matters for the occasional rescue drop combo on those smaller but more difficult earlygame maps. And then Bors actually stops getting doubled by certain enemies after he's used a while due to his lol40speed growth. And if you even bother promoting him, Bors actually has existent offense since his skill and luck growth actually exist, while Barth pretty much always has zero offense. You know...at first, I thought this argument was going nowhere, but you hit the axes and reminded me he gets 3RKOd constantly by axers on the isles. Then you got to Boris, and a good point was made. Hell, Boris might be more durable by the time he shows up, and from there on it's not like Barth's durability growths will have him leave Boris in hte dust, when both will eventually have a hard time dying regardless. How about I switch Boris and Barth for ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A2ZOMG Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Yeah, actually, just Barth needs to go down. They both are near-useless. Oh and lol Barth can't even double fellow armors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 TBH pitting Ward higher isn't the best of ideas but I'm not entitled to that. As for Light Brand, IIRC it does 10 flat damage per hit from a distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Yeah, actually, just Barth needs to go down. They both are near-useless.Oh and lol Barth can't even double fellow armors. Well Boris isn't exactly useless early on. Sure, he's bad in the axe heavy segments, but otherwise enemies not cavs and other various fast units can't double him, axes are the only things that can do a number on him. Archers are pitiful to him, mercs and myrms without heavy swords can't do much to him, if anything. He can at least be durable to those not packing axes. TBH pitting Ward higher isn't the best of ideas but I'm not entitled to that.As for Light Brand, IIRC it does 10 flat damage per hit from a distance. Not saying he's gonna skyrocket, but Ward is generally just an odd unit. As for the ligh brand...ok, that boss can 2RKO him with that in mind. Seriously, that speed of his is nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Ward is plenty high as it is. He is arguable versus Tate, I guess, but I can't see him above the cavaliers, Geese, Oujay, Bartre, etc. Is Ray gonna drop yet? Right below Ward seems good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Ward is plenty high as it is. He is arguable versus Tate, I guess, but I can't see him above the cavaliers, Geese, Oujay, Bartre, etc.Is Ray gonna drop yet? Right below Ward seems good to me. Only reason he hasn't yet is because we haven't solidified his position. I feel he deserves the top of low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 whether he is worse than Fa Cath Hue Zeis Garret Niime is arguable. Fa I can see above him, Cath depends on how much you love thievery, Hugh should probably be below him, Zeis and Garret are arguable. Niime is better when she's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) whether he is worse thanFa Cath Hue Zeis Garret Niime is arguable. Fa I can see above him, Cath depends on how much you love thievery, Hugh should probably be below him, Zeis and Garret are arguable. Niime is better when she's there. I could see Fa above him too, given the new circumstances. Cath didn't need training to have a form of use. Hue devours resources, but so does Ray. Hue devours money but comes out the box pretty good, while Ray devours exp to become great eventully. They're definitely close. Garret is simply bland, but he's neither good nor bad really. Just comes later. Niime pretty much shows up to shitstomp Ray, and make his entire existance useless. Or as it's showing us she easily could anyways. Ray needs to devour exp and he's still not as good as her on arrival. Another problem is he hasn't exactly been useful beforehand either, considering you have to catch up to Niime of all people. He also needs a Guiding Ring to get that good, while Niime is essentially free hax. Zeiss might go to low along with him. Edited June 24, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Lilina>Bors proven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Woops. Will fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ercdouken Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Tier list seems to be outdated from the server crash. I remember Fa being in Graveyard Tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 No, I argued her out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan12 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 You might want to check the date at which the opening post was last edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 ^ Last editet "today 9:26 AM" (middle-european time) Since this is HM I expected Percival to be top, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A2ZOMG Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Any doubts about Fa can be resolved here...just take out a few exp rank arguments. http://s11.zetaboards.com/Fire_Emblem_Fusion/topic/392898/1/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ercdouken Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 No, I argued her out of it. Oh, okay then. You might want to check the date at which the opening post was last edited. I should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Um, guys, I think he got it the second Mekkah said "I argued her out of graveyard tier". Let's stop answering the same question when it's already been answered, please. EDIT: and see? he did v_v Percival>Miredy? Better bases vs flight and slightly earlier jointime. I think it's worth a case at least. Edited June 25, 2009 by GreenHairedDraco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 The reason I don't really feel like arguing Fir vs Klein and Percival vs Miledy is because FEA uses their NM stats. Let's see if Balcerak can generate HM averages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) better idea http://serenesforest.net/fe6/average/fir_h.html http://serenesforest.net/fe6/average/klein3.html http://serenesforest.net/fe6/average/percival2.html http://serenesforest.net/fe6/average/miredy_h.html Edited June 25, 2009 by GreenHairedDraco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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