FE4 THREAD

[Fruity Insanity]

intelligence is powerful. What if we had no brain but had the strongest muscles in the world?

That clearly isn't the case, however.

Intelligence is strength in the same way intellectual property is property

Note: Intellectual property wanted to be property because property is so cool

Noooo...

We use our intelligence all the time. It isn't purely a survival mechanism at this point. It is our greatest point. Our strength.

IPs, on the other hand...

It shows

I'd like to see how your STR-based mage would perform

Though there are 3E sourcebooks that would allow muscle magic, and 4E is silly

Lol, I really love mages, though. Magic is the best.

I don't even need to say anything anymore

Huh?

[Fruity Insanity]

What good is intelligence if you are up against a bear, lion, tiger, wolf, or another predator by yourself?

Depends. But in most cases, well, not much.

But you can't take just one scenario. xP

Give an animal a puzzle when its life is on the line. Now who has the better hand?

It all just depends, really...

[Makaze]

I kind of have to disagree there. I think you have intelligence you can play with animals instincts if you know the animal well. (This of course makes me sound like a hypocrite because then humans do possess some good intelligence.) But animals can can do the same. But anyway if you are a person that has studied up on an animal than you may be able to use the animals emotions. For example you may be able to run the animal into a river. Some animals can't swim. But I don't know enough on say how fast this animals that you listed can run on average than we can run. Man my points kind of don't go into much detail but i am a bit lazy so sorry.

You would need to borrow the intelligence of others for this. If we are measuring strength, it will be individual strength and individual growth. One human with only its own knowledge and skills versus a bear with only its own knowledge and skills. After all, you can't expect the first humans to have done studies on bears or vice versa.

Who has the upper hand?

[Aquakat]

I'm... a little confused by what's going on, I'm afraid.

[Makaze]

Depends. But in most cases, well, not much.

But you can't take just one scenario. xP

Give an animal a puzzle when its life is on the line. Now who has the better hand?

It all just depends, really...

Then I assume you realize how weak you really are. Despite your intelligence, you would die if left to your own devices without the help of others. Most pack animals are able to survive individually, but modern humans are pathetically weak without padding from others.

[Junk]

You would need to borrow the intelligence of others for this. If we are measuring strength, it will be individual strength and individual growth. One human with only its own knowledge and skills versus a bear with only its own knowledge and skills. After all, you can't expect the first humans to have done studies on bears or vice versa.

Who has the upper hand?

okay understandable. But fruity then has a point. If we say tell a bear to program some software with it's life on the line. Well anyway i say animals and humans have equal intelligence. Plus there's evolution to consider. If we flip things we could fare better in an animals world and we could be the "savages" while bears will adapt and evolve and could become like us! That does sound pretty riciolous though

[TheEnd]

Noooo...

We use our intelligence all the time. It isn't purely a survival mechanism at this point. It is our greatest point. Our strength.

IPs, on the other hand...

can you lift boulders with intelligence

are you psychic

Lol, I really love mages, though. Magic is the best.

show me your str mage builds then

fe1-3 don't count

Huh?

"throw a human into a savanna"

"that'd be like throwing a lion into the ocean!"

"except that humans can live everywhere!"

you're already pointing out the holes in your own arguments

edit: typo

Edited January 29, 2014 by TheEnd

[Junk]

yep i am pretty sure humans can't live in oceans hehe

[TheEnd]

yep i am pretty sure humans can't live in oceans hehe

Atlantis was here, you're clearly deluded

[Junk]

Atlantis was here, you're clearly deluded

okay

[Makaze]

okay understandable. But fruity then has a point. If we say tell a bear to program some software with it's life on the line. Well anyway i say animals and humans have equal intelligence. Plus there's evolution to consider. If we flip things we could fare better in an animals world and we could be the "savages" while bears will adapt and evolve and could become like us! That does sound pretty riciolous though

Animals do not have equal intelligence because they are not as capable of adapting their behaviors as humans. Humans can gain a vast array of skills and combine skills to create new ones. Humans are physically and mentally capable of intricate tasks enabled by their opposable thumbs. They have extensive and clear memories that extend through almost the entirety of their lives. They can learn from their predecessors and build on their knowledge ad infinitum. Humans naturally grow more successful over time while animals stay more or less the same throughout hundreds of generations.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Makaze

[Junk]

Animals do not have equal intelligence because they are not as capable of adapting their behaviors as humans. Humans can gain a vast array of skills and combbine skills to create new ones. They have extensive and clear memories that extend through the entirety of their lives. They can learn from their predecessors and build on their knowledge ad infinitum. Humans naturally grow more successful over time while animals stay more or less the same throughout hundreds of generations.

welp That destroyed my arguemtn completely XD

[Fruity Insanity]

Then I assume you realize how weak you really are. Despite your intelligence, you would die if left to your own devices without the help of others. Most pack animals are able to survive individually, but modern humans are pathetically weak without padding from others.

And that isn't a strength?

Ants live in colonies. So do bees. You can't necessarily gauge a specie's strength based on individuals.

That isn't a good comparison, then.

can you lift boulders with intelligence

are you psychic

show me your str mage builds then

fe1-3 don't count

"throw a human into a savanna"

"that'd be link throwing a lion into the ocean!"

"except that humans can live everywhere!"

you're already pointing out the holes in your own arguments

No, but I wish I could.

Does FE12 MU count?

I am. But I'm breaking yours, too.

"Throw a human into a savanna and see how he survives." -- as if a human would be too weak to survive.

And you just said they can live everywhere.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Not-an-Apple

[Fruity Insanity]

Animals do not have equal intelligence because they are not as capable of adapting their behaviors as humans. Humans can gain a vast array of skills and combine skills to create new ones. Humans are physically and mentally capable of intricate tasks enabled by their opposable thumbs. They have extensive and clear memories that extend through almost the entirety of their lives. They can learn from their predecessors and build on their knowledge ad infinitum. Humans naturally grow more successful over time while animals stay more or less the same throughout hundreds of generations.

That's what I said, though... Humans had intelligence... and it was their strength...

Also, you do know that Bliss is only, like, 12 or something, right?

[Junk]

well i'm sure both could survive, just trying to adapt would be the key. both could use thier knowledge to survive.

[TheEnd]

And that isn't a strength?

Ants live in colonies. So do bees. You can't necessarily gauge a species strength based on individuals.

That isn't a good comparison, then.

But ants are weak. A human can crush them with his finger.

No, but I wish I could.

Does MU in FE12 count?

I am. But I'm breaking yours, too.

"Throw a human into a savanna and see how he survives." -- as if a human would be too weak to survive.

And you just said they can live everywhere.

In that case, you're weak

Only if his magic at 20/20 is at base

How are you

You broke your own counter-argument

Against a lioness or two? Sure would

A human would stand no chance without tools or subterfuge - he can't run or outpower his foes by himself

And tools and subterfuge are for the weak

I was quoting you, if you didn't notice

That's what I said, though... Humans had intelligence... and it was their strength...

Also, you do know that Bliss is only, like, 12 or something, right?

Is Bliss really 12? Because I think you could learn some things from him Edited January 29, 2014 by TheEnd

[Junk]

age doesn't always matter though. And I came into this argument blindly but eh i did the best I could.

[TheEnd]

age doesn't always matter though. And I came into this argument blindly but eh i did the best I could.

At least you noticed when I was bullshitting you

I think Neal kinda didn't

Sleep

Edited January 29, 2014 by TheEnd

[Fruity Insanity]

But ants are weak. A human can crush them with his finger.

In that case, you're weak

Only if his magic at 20/20 is at base

How are you

You broke your own counter-argument

Against a lioness or two? Sure would

A human would stand no chance without tools or subterfuge - he can't run or outpower his foes by himself

And tools and subterfuge are for the weak

I was quoting you, if you didn't notice

Is Bliss really 12? Because I think you could learn some things from him

But in numbers, they're strong.

Take those accursed fire ants that came to southern US from South America, IIRC. They've killed before. xP

I already admitted that I was.

Well, I had a Sorcerer MU and reset for good growths, so it had max everything.

I'm assuming the lionesses have better prey to go up against. Maybe a gazelle or two.

I noticed... but you quoted me because you agreed. Humans can live pretty much anywhere. Even in a savanna. Perfectly fine.

H-hey. ;~;

Also, I'll have you know, I love playing devil's advocate. It's something I do IRL all the time, too.

age doesn't always matter though. And I came into this argument blindly but eh i did the best I could.

It doesn't always matter.

But in this case, it does.

Same applies to me, of course.

At least you noticed when I was bullshitting you

I think Neal kinda didn't

Sleep

You know me. I'm oblivious like that.

'Night.

[Makaze]

And that isn't a strength?

Ants live in colonies. So do bees. You can't necessarily gauge a species strength based on individuals.

That isn't a good comparison, then.

It isn't a strength because it depends on way too many things which are mostly luck-based. You can succeed, but that doesn't make you strong in itself. It would be foolish to judge strength based on who won instead because right now we're assessing who would win, not who did. We not determining the strength of the species or its ability to survive as a group because that defeats the purpose of analyzing strength. We are assessing the strengths of individual members of each species.

Let's go to the definition of strong.

strong

strôNG

adjective

1. having the power to move heavy weights or perform other physically demanding tasks.

2. able to withstand great force or pressure.

Humans need intelligence to survive because they are not strong under this definition. Their intelligence more than makes up for their weakness, but it does not make them strong. It makes them clever and efficient. For a human example, being good at martial arts does not make you able to lift bigger rocks or withstand stronger pressures.

Contrary to what you have been saying, humans are very susceptible to death by exposure to extreme temperatures and varying air and water pressures. Humans cannot survive without creating clothes and shelter for themselves. As such, there are many environments humans cannot live in without borrowing resources from other environments.

I could get into other things like disease and cancer (which humans are very prone to) but that shouldn't be necessary.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Makaze

[TheEnd]

Just two things before bed

1.

I noticed... but you quoted me because you agreed. Humans can live pretty much anywhere. Even in a savanna. Perfectly fine.

Logical failure

I quoted (paraphrased, to be exact) my argument, your counter-argument, and your counter-counter-argument, then said you were already pointing holes into your own arguments

I don't know where you found agreement in there, when you were disagreeing with yourself already

2.

Also, I'll have you know, I love playing devil's advocate. It's something I do IRL all the time, too.

You know me. I'm oblivious like that.

Something sounds odd here

[Junk]

Well thanks, Because everyone always says i am too literal XD. and yeah I am really 12. Thats something that i actually feel comfortable to admit on this forum. If I did that on most forums i would get shut out instantly. It's sad how much this world generalizes these days. Well one 12 year old acted like a douche that must mean the rest of them do.

[Fruity Insanity]

It isn't a strength because it depends on way too many things which are mostly luck-based. You can succeed, but that doesn't make you strong in itself. It would be foolish to judge strength based on who won instead because right now we're assessing who would win, not who did. We not determining the strength of the species or its ability to survive as a group because that defeats the purpose of analyzing strength. We are assessing the strengths of individual members of each species.

Let's go to the definition of strong.

strong

strôNG

adjective

1. having the power to move heavy weights or perform other physically demanding tasks.

2. able to withstand great force or pressure.

Humans need intelligence to survive because they are not strong under this definition. Their intelligence more than makes up for their weakness, but it does not make them strong. It makes them clever and efficient.

Contrary to what you have been saying, humans are very susceptible to death by exposure and varying air and water pressures. Humans cannot survive without creating clothes and shelter for themselves. As such, there are many environments humans cannot live in without borrowing resources from other environments.

I could get into other things like disease and cancer (which humans are very prone to) but that shouldn't necessary.

I thought I made it clear from the beginning that I wasn't using strong in its definition of physical strength, but rather that it was a strength that humans had. Ergo, making humans "strong." Intellectually.

[Fruity Insanity]

Just two things before bed

1.

Logical failure

I quoted (paraphrased, to be exact) my argument, your counter-argument, and your counter-counter-argument, then said you were already pointing holes into your own arguments

I don't know where you found agreement in there, when you were disagreeing with yourself already

2.

Something sounds odd here

You're confusing me now.

And I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm wrong.

Because it happens.

Also, what sounds odd? I can't play devil's advocate and be oblivious?

;~;

Well thanks, Because everyone always says i am too literal XD. and yeah I am really 12. Thats something that i actually feel comfortable to admit on this forum. If I did that on most forums i would get shut out instantly. It's sad how much this world generalizes these days. Well one 12 year old acted like a douche that must mean the rest of them do.

I would appreciate better capitalization and punctuation, but whatever.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Not-an-Apple

[Junk]

I would appreciate better capitalization and punctuation, but whatever.

well it's one of the things i need to work on while using the internet.