Rodykitty Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 @Chainey: If I remember correctly he would be more hot about the PEMN thing than Rolf or Est, since FE is limited in how deterministic it can be but etcOh, then he has every bit of bluntness coming at him since we're all sick of this crap by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Wait wait wait, hold the phone. People still talk about Fire Emblem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Wait wait wait, hold the phone. People still talk about Fire Emblem? Yes. It's why this site is still alive and FESS isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Envoy of the Beginning Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) @BLS: Personally I also find it weird that you would get offended at somebody calling Metroid Prime a shooter, and I didn't really hear much from you on that (that I remember) beyond shooters=inferior genre but whatevs I just get annoyed from hearing that MP = FPS because of a huge argument I had on another forum about it (this is before I joined here by the way). And I don't think that shooters are inferior; I just didn't like Halo. Book of Life: I stopped being considerate for the most part when some people started taking advantage of it. Edited July 16, 2009 by Black Luster Soldier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
book of life Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) Book of Life: I stopped being considerate for the most part when some people started taking advantage of it. That only works on people who you tried against and people are clearly acting/bullshiting/troll/whateverthefuckyouwanttocallit. It's not exactly fair to not be when someone who genuinely doesn't know but can easily learn. Edited July 16, 2009 by book of life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestling Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uguu Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 This post totally makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 And they come back. Every. Single. Time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandmanccl Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 For those that have forgotten, my whole viewpoint is that whatever you do that wins you the game is the best possible solution. The concept of tiers in a single person strategy game is irrelevant. Ignoring good strategy at the expense of having "uber units" is genuinely a terrible idea. Claiming that stat boosting items are irrelevant in character discussions is also a silly thing. The items are there, and there's no reason not to use them. Often times, giving an early statbooster to a unit that levels poorly in an area can give you an excellent unit that satisfies a very viable strategic role (like tossing Leonardo a speedwing every now and again if that stat lags behind). They can make a great unit better, or can make a mediocre unit just as great. PEME. If you beat the game and never lost a unit and never reloaded a stage, then congratulations, you found a winning strategy and are a Fire Emblem master in my eyes. If you did it by using Meg over Edward, well, who gives a shit? Strategy first in strategy games. The fact that I've beaten every FE game I've ever owned using different units every time goes to show that it's not the stats of the unit; it's how you use them. I have no issues with blunt people. If you go "This unit sucks for these reasons; I consider this unit to be better and here's why" then I don't take issue with you. If you go "You are an idiot for using that guy, he's terrible and offers no viable strategic solution at any point" then you are a tool and should go back to playing RPGs where the only strategy is to grind out levels until the enemy can't have a hope at beating you anymore. I work at a video game store currently. I'm still as opinionated person as I ever was, and as blunt as anyone I've ever met, but I noticed I don't offend people with it anymore. The reason is because I don't insult their likes and dislikes; I simply offer that I have a differing view and that I am a different person so they should take that with a grain of salt. I think FF7 is one of the worst JRPGs ever made; I'm in the minority on that and I understand that it's one of the most important video games of all times in terms of getting people into the video gamer mold. You enjoyed it? Then I'm glad you had 70 hours of fun. I'll just go have my 70 hours of fun beating Baldur's Gate 2 a bunch of times. The fact that I was hounded left and right by people telling me I was wrong to suggest units that I used to great effect is why I left. I know my strategies work every time and I will stick by them; disagree the fact I've beaten every North American release of a Fire Emblem game (except the DS one) many times over and it ends up making you look like a fool. I'm older than a lot of the regulars here and so I have less to relate to in just a general chatter setting, and so once the Fire Emblem discussions stopped being fun, I just didn't really see a point in sticking around. This was fun stopping in again, though. Take care now, bye bye then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mufasa Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Hey Sandman. I bet you don't even remember me. Lol. Normally I would have looked at the forums for 5 minutes and then leave, but seeing that you've shown up again for a little bit, I'd thought I'd stop in and say hello. Good to see that yer still kicking. Also, don't be surprised if I get flamed for this post. It happens to me a lot nowadays. :P *Directs attention to title.* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
book of life Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Heh...Funny, you're a bit like me....just a bit...in one regard... Well, farewell, fellow warrior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Just know, about the whole "it's not the stats of the unit; it's how you use them" thing, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 And they come back.Every. Single. Time. Wololo Sothe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 For those that have forgotten, my whole viewpoint is that whatever you do that wins you the game is the best possible solution.Give Zagaro & Wolf forges.Give them level ups through said forges while clearing the chapter. Continue to rape the game. The concept of tiers in a single person strategy game is irrelevant. Ignoring good strategy at the expense of having "uber units" is genuinely a terrible idea.Yes, we expense strategy in favor of uber units, which is why we value Est so highly, because who needs strategy when you can have this amazing unit with super growths?Characters like Jeorge or Marcus or Wendell are insta-bottom tier because their growths suck. Claiming that stat boosting items are irrelevant in character discussions is also a silly thing. The items are there, and there's no reason not to use them.We're assuming they'll be used, we're just not assuming they'll be given to certain characters. We try to avoid bringing them up because many characters want these items, and their use tends to result in favortism.Often times, giving an early statbooster to a unit that levels poorly in an area can give you an excellent unit that satisfies a very viable strategic role (like tossing Leonardo a speedwing every now and again if that stat lags behind). They can make a great unit better, or can make a mediocre unit just as great.And this is a player's choice. The tier list can't dictate what the player's choices are going to be, it can only tell you what the best characters to apply these choices are.PEME. If you beat the game and never lost a unit and never reloaded a stage, then congratulations, you found a winning strategy and are a Fire Emblem master in my eyes. If you did it by using Meg over Edward, well, who gives a shit? Strategy first in strategy games. The fact that I've beaten every FE game I've ever owned using different units every time goes to show that it's not the stats of the unit; it's how you use them.The tiers are assuming the units (even the uber) ones are being used in such a manner that's strategic, and going for beating the chapter efficiently. The only exception I make on efficiency is not weighing Warp Staves so much that it makes every healer auto-top tier.I have no issues with blunt people. If you go "This unit sucks for these reasons; I consider this unit to be better and here's why" then I don't take issue with you. If you go "You are an idiot for using that guy, he's terrible and offers no viable strategic solution at any point" then you are a tool and should go back to playing RPGs where the only strategy is to grind out levels until the enemy can't have a hope at beating you anymore.These units are better because they get us away from grinding and closer towards strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Claiming that stat boosting items are irrelevant in character discussions is also a silly thing. The items are there, and there's no reason not to use them. I stood solid on guys needing a speedwing to double some stuff in FEDS NM for a reason. of course stat boosters are to be considered, but also consider this. Radd doesn't deserve a dragonshield any more than Marth does just because Radd has shit defense and Marth has averageish defense. "Covering up unit's weaknesses giving yourself an excellent unit" is a good argument on paper, but in practice is falls short as you could have given a different unit that same booster to make their strong points even stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameAtAll Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 *Waits to see if this is actually going to turn into a full-scale argument* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I'm involved. Well, I'm involved NOW, anyway. yeah, it's gonna get ugly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) Sorry everyone, but I couldn't resist. Ignoring good strategy at the expense of having "uber units" is genuinely a terrible idea. How so? Having uber units sounds easier than formulating a strategy to me. If anything, it makes formulating a good strategy easier, or even unnecessary altogether. Claiming that stat boosting items are irrelevant in character discussions is also a silly thing. Stat boosters are a shaky argument for a reason. It's one-use and a lot of characters might want it. They aren't disregarded entirely, but there used more as a "Oh, and if he gets this booster he can do this as well" thing. Although it's much more detailed and thought-out than that. PEME. If you beat the game and never lost a unit and never reloaded a stage, then congratulations, you found a winning strategy and are a Fire Emblem master in my eyes. If you did it by using Meg over Edward, well, who gives a shit? Strategy first in strategy games. The fact that I've beaten every FE game I've ever owned using different units every time goes to show that it's not the stats of the unit; it's how you use them. The term "PEMN" applies to the RNG only. If you beat the game using Meg, no one will shout PEMN! in your face, only say "cool story, bro" and move on. It's when you say "Meg caps every stat at 20/20/10 because it just happened" that people say PEMN to you. I'm older than a lot of the regulars here and so I have less to relate to in just a general chatter setting, and so once the Fire Emblem discussions stopped being fun, I just didn't really see a point in sticking around. "Fun" is entirely subjective. We enjoy discussing Fire Emblem the way we do. It's our opinion that it's fun. If it's not yours, then, well, that sucks for you, doesn't it? This was fun stopping in again, though. Take care now, bye bye then. Ah, c'mon, stick around a bit longer! EDIT: One last thing. We're on the internet. No one really cares how old you are. Edited July 17, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 no matter, i have better things to do than argue with him Such as argue with other idiots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 It can be a problem. And it has been one for a long time. I got/get bashed for the following: Being blunt about the Wii (why do you think that many people don't like console war discussions?) Pointing out why I think that Spongebob is lame Pointing out why I claim Halo and OoT to be overrated as fuck Pointing out why I hardly socialize Pointing out that Miley Cyrus is terrible and why I could keep going on about this too. So was I being a hilarious tool about all those? To be blunt, yes, it probably does make you a hilarious tool. At least several of them. But go ahead and give me the reasoning for each and I will decide on a case by case basis whether each thing was you being blunt or you being a hilarious tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestling Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 EDIT: One last thing. We're on the internet. No one really cares how old you are. Actually, I was in an IRC chatroom, and this one guy was AFK. Once I said my age in the chatroom, he started trolling me horribly. Horribly as in "You made yourself look like a dip****, and you say "omg i r the 25 yeetz old" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
California Mountain Snake Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 This was fun stopping in again, though. Take care now, bye bye then. Grow a dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Grow a dick. Dude. Duuuuuuuuuude. <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameAtAll Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I'm involved. Well, I'm involved NOW, anyway.yeah, it's gonna get ugly It always does. GO BB! RIP 'EM APART! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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