Astra is sooo broken

[Narga_Rocks]

How come Impale>Tear? The Hawks/Ravens have more speed than any of the Lancers have skill, so surely on average, Tear will activate more often.

Also 3x strength > 4x damage, usually.

20str, 12 mt weapon, 20 def enemy. 52 damage vs. 36 damage.

30 str, 18 mt weapon, 25 def enemy. 83 damage vs. 92 damage, so Impale wins that.

30 str, 18 mt weapon, 28 def enemy. 80 damage vs. 80 damage.

Of course, this will only really matter against red dragons, because as long as a unit 4HKOs it's fine with impale, and the only time a unit may not be 4HKOing is against the 75 hp/36 def reds or 77 hp/38 def reds. Or generals on cover. 52 hp/42 def means 55 mt is needed to 4HKO, and it's pre wishblade so 18 mt silver, or 21 mt with twin swords card. Neph/Aran need 32 str and a +mt support to KO, Danved (I think fire) needs 31 str. Also, without twin swords on the forge say an axe card and now they need 33 str/32 str.

28 str and a 10mt weapon could KO with tear, so 28 str and S strike works.

Tear > Impale.

Also, where is stun?

Edited September 27, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Candlejack]

Activation rates differ only for what stat it depends on.

Hawk's SPD cap is 21, Tibarn's is 23, while Sentinel's SKL cap is 35 for both genders.

Tear might have the side-effect to go with it, but Impale not only has better activation but more overall power. Besides, when you put Hawks against many classes, their speed's will normally be pathetic next to other classes anyway.

Cats with Rend have this problem too. Cat's speed cap is 20. Freaking 20. 20% to activate.

Colossus has 36% chance to activate (Since Colossus is Skill=%), nearly twice as likely to activate. I honestly don't know why CONx2 is the activation % but whatever.

I tend to look at skills in activation priorities. I.E, higher is much better.

Besides, Reaver damage x3 vs. Cat damage x5. Reavers get 40 STR cap while Cats get 18.

Colossus also takes up less space too.

EDIT: Damnit I put Stun somewhere in upper mid/lower high Tier.

Edited September 27, 2009 by OliverXRenning

[Florete]

Activation rates differ only for what stat it depends on.

Hawk's SPD cap is 21, Tibarn's is 23, while Sentinel's SKL cap is 35 for both genders.

Cats with Rend have this problem too. Cat's speed cap is 20. Freaking 20. 20% to activate.

Laguz stats double when they transform. Activation rates go with it.

[Candlejack]

Wow. I knew I forgot something so blatant.

<_<

============

LOL BK Tier:

Eclipse

High Tier:

Luna

Rend

Colossus

Stun

Mid Tier:

Tear

Savage

Ire

Roar

Aether

Sol

Deadeye

Low Tier:

Flare

Lethality

Astra

Corona

Bottom Tier:

Bane

----------------

Okay. This seems to be accurate now...

I'm up for a Rend Vs. Luna debate. :3

Edited September 29, 2009 by OliverXRenning

[Candlejack]

Ignore this. Accidental double post.

Edited September 27, 2009 by OliverXRenning

[NinjaMonkey]

Sorry for asking, but can anyone tell me what the difference is between Flare and Corona...

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Sorry for asking, but can anyone tell me what the difference is between Flare and Corona...

You'd be an idiot to think Corona's better than Flare.

[Ether]

I see a distinct lack of deadeye.

I`d say just over collosus for activation rate

[Original Alear]

FE9 by far, it basically uses more weapon uses to do similar damage to a single strike. FE9 Astra is so bad, having it is a negative.

Also, doesn't it always use all 5 uses on the weapon?

Now, a broken "Astra" would be shooting star sword. skill%, 5 hits, and if you can critical on a normal attack you can crit just as easily on any of the attacks from astra. And in that game crits doubled mt, not triple damage, so with 30 mt on a 20 def enemy, for example, 40 damage instead of 30.

Basically, Lakche activates shooting star sword, enemy dies.

OK, I know that this isn't FE10, but I'd still like to make sure of something:

AFAIK, most characters don't critical in FE4. You need either the "critical" skill or 50 kills on your weapon to do it. Outside of an Ayra/Noiche pairing I've never had a Lakche w/ critical, as Ayra+her usually don't get 50+ kills for any one weapon (I would think) since Ayra gets the hero sword pretty late in part 1 (chapter 3 sometime I think). And there's no killer sword in the game available to your characters, unless there's some way to steal weapons that no one made me aware of.

But yes, criticals are ridiculous in FE4.

[Narga_Rocks]

FE9 by far, it basically uses more weapon uses to do similar damage to a single strike. FE9 Astra is so bad, having it is a negative.

Also, doesn't it always use all 5 uses on the weapon?

Now, a broken "Astra" would be shooting star sword. skill%, 5 hits, and if you can critical on a normal attack you can crit just as easily on any of the attacks from astra. And in that game crits doubled mt, not triple damage, so with 30 mt on a 20 def enemy, for example, 40 damage instead of 30.

Basically, Lakche activates shooting star sword, enemy dies.

OK, I know that this isn't FE10, but I'd still like to make sure of something:

AFAIK, most characters don't critical in FE4. You need either the "critical" skill or 50 kills on your weapon to do it. Outside of an Ayra/Noiche pairing I've never had a Lakche w/ critical, as Ayra+her usually don't get 50+ kills for any one weapon (I would think) since Ayra gets the hero sword pretty late in part 1 (chapter 3 sometime I think). And there's no killer sword in the game available to your characters, unless there's some way to steal weapons that no one made me aware of.

But yes, criticals are ridiculous in FE4.

Well, I'm aware that Lakche isn't getting crit without Ayra Noishe. I like my Ayra Noishe pairing. I realize she doesn't level anywhere near as quickly as she would with an Ayra Lex pairing, nor does she have the defence with Noishe as her father that she has with Lex as her father, even at the same level, and the soon to be massive level difference just compounds that difference.

But it's fun seeing crits on Shooting Star Sword.

Anyway, the fact most pairings (including arguably the best pairing) don't create a Lakche with crit does not change the fact that Shooting Star Sword is miles better than Astra even without the higher proc rate because it actually allows the possibility. And I'm pretty sure a weapon will pull 50+ kills by the end of the game, so she's just missing out on the critting Shooting Star for a few chapters (though there aren't very many chapters to begin with).

Thus, Shooting Star Sword is awesome in that game, even if a more defensive Lakche is better than a more offensive one. (though of course the extra str from a higher level (Elite w/ Lex as father) frequently means she doesn't need crit to kill.)

[Jaybee]

Astra is shitty against high-DEF foes and Corona is only useful against, like, Saints or high-RES units. That goes for Dragons too, but putting magic-users in a DRAGON'S range is bogus.

Micaiah + Nosferatu on 4-E-3 = w1n.

[Narga_Rocks]

Astra is shitty against high-DEF foes and Corona is only useful against, like, Saints or high-RES units. That goes for Dragons too, but putting magic-users in a DRAGON'S range is bogus.

Micaiah + Nosferatu on 4-E-3 = w1n.

Yeah, I still don't get what people have against a unit that becomes literally un-killable on enemy phase and drops red dragons to <20 hp and makes them easy KOs for pretty much anybody. Even whites she's invincible against, only problem is she doesn't knock them low enough to be OHKOd by most, but they still end up low enough to be ORKOd by everyone, so oh well. Also, there are multiple areas on the map where she can face only red dragons.

[NinjaMonkey]

Corona is only useful against, like, Saints or high-RES units. That goes for Dragons too, but putting magic-users in a DRAGON'S range is bogus.

Even with these Dragon's crappy accuracy?

[Narga_Rocks]

Corona is only useful against, like, Saints or high-RES units. That goes for Dragons too, but putting magic-users in a DRAGON'S range is bogus.

Even with these Dragon's crappy accuracy?

Yeah, even on HM they aren't the best, though still hit lots. On EM (what you play) a good support and max spd/lck (simple enough on EM) should make a character nigh unhittable.

[Killer Poleax]

shouldn't Savage, Roar and Tear also be above Colossus since they also triple strength? Wolves and Naesala, while transformed, have the same strength cap as Reavers, Hawks have 2 less STR, Ravens have 6 less STR than Reavers and Lions and Tibarn have more. and the activation rates are also higher. wolves transformed have 46-48% activation rate (skill%), lions have 48% (strength%), hawks have 42% (speed%), Tibarn and ravens have 46% (also speed%), Naesala has 50%

Deadeye should be where Aether and Sol are for (Skill/2)%

[Candlejack]

For shame, KSFF. Arguing AGAINST your favored class?

--------------

LOL BK Tier:

Eclipse

High Tier:

Rend

Luna

Roar

Stun

Mid Tier:

Savage

Colossus

Impale

Tear

Ire

Aether

Sol

Deadeye

Low Tier:

Flare

Lethality

Astra

Corona

Bottom Tier:

Bane

---------------

Luna is staying where it is. It's nucking futs.

x3 Strength AND negates DEF. Only thing close to that is Rend. Jesus.

---------------

Finally. I've made a lot of mistakes with this. I'm still not even sure why I put Corona higher than freaking LETHALITY.

That and overlooking Colossus' and many Laguz mastery skills having the near-exact same activation rate.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Howard Holmes

[Jaybee]

Does this take into account availability?

[Iced]

Does this take into account availability?

I wouldn't think so.

By the way is there any thing useful about bane?

[Icon of Sin]

By the way is there any thing useful about bane?

If Bane activates on the first hit, it's pretty much a kill when they double.

[Candlejack]

But if every OTHER mastery skill activates on the first hit, it's usually an instant kill.

Unless its Astra or Bane.

[Florete]

But if every OTHER mastery skill activates on the first hit, it's usually an instant kill.

Unless its Astra or Bane.

Now tell me your point.

And Astra is almost always a ORKO.

[Candlejack]

Astra isn't a 1HKO.

It's normally a 3HKO or a 4HKO. Against mid/low DEF enemies. Try using it against dragons. And if you try and make the argument that it'll normally be higher levels, then you're being ridiculous. Because you could say that about any OTHER skill.

If it negated defense, it'd be great. But it doesn't. It does damage against foes with average defense and will put a small dent in dragons, assuming we're debating Hard Mode.

[Florete]

Astra isn't a 1HKO.

I never said it was. I clearly said "ORKO," which comes out as "One round knock-out," meaning it will inevitably kill the enemy.

Try using it against dragons.

Since all Trueblades can use Wyrmslayers, I don't see a problem.

And if you try and make the argument that it'll normally be higher levels, then you're being ridiculous. Because you could say that about any OTHER skill.

What are you even saying here?

If it negated defense, it'd be great. But it doesn't. It does damage against foes with average defense and will put a small dent in dragons, assuming we're debating Hard Mode.

I always debate Hard Mode.

[dondon151]

All I know is, Ike's Aether loses to DK's fsmash.

[Candlejack]

That's because DK is a goddamn pimp.

And if you try and make the argument that it'll normally be better with better characters, then you're being ridiculous. Because you could say that about any OTHER skill.

That is what I wanted to say. And typos raped it.

And yeah, sure, Trueblades can use Wyrmslayers. So can Ike. And you still have Rexbolt that, as a plus, increases SKL and thus the chance to Crit. Building upon the effective damage anyway.

Oh, and Trueblades aren't the only blade-users vying for Wyrmslayers. Ike (Well, Ragnell, but still helps with 4E3.), Marshall with lolLuna, and other classes with better skills. Not to say any members of OTHER classes, i.e. Peg Knights, are better, but Stun > Astra.

Also, you're only even regarding dragons. What about Armors? Trueblades are probably tinking anyway without a specialty weapon, and Armors don't make this any better.