Astra is sooo broken

[Candlejack]

You know, if we're now taking characters into account then I might as well do ANOTHER tier list of skills based on the characters as well. Including tier bullshit and how long I can use it. Before OXR responds to it, he was talking about characters first anyway, so I might as well do one more.

Hard mode.

High tier

Luna

Stun

Upper Mid tier

Astra

Sol

Aether

Savage

Lower Mid tier

Tear

Deadeye

Colossus

Eclipse

Impale

Low tier

Rend

Roar

Flare

Corona

Suckfest tier

Lethality

Bane

Ire

No real problems here, except Aether going above Sol and maybe Astra, since Ike rapes the entire second half of the game.

EDIT:

Okay, since people agree that Rend is better than or equal to Eclipse, I'll just move it into the tier as well.

I won't move Deadeye until this whole thing is resolved, but Dragonlords get it anyway, so that whole "Won't Double As Easily" deal is resolved with, normally, a Speedwing.

EDITTWO:

Freydgar Tier:

Rend

Eclipse

High Tier:

Luna

Roar

Stun

Mid Tier:

Savage

Colossus

Impale

Tear

Ire

Lethality

Aether

Deadeye

Sol

Low Tier:

Flare

Lethality

Astra

Corona

Bottom Tier:

Bane

Edited October 3, 2009 by Howard Holmes

[Zkirsche]

I'm still waiting for Eclipse and Stun down a tier >_>, and lethality up a tier, considering there's no way it should be 2 tiers below Stun.

If you contest any of this, please reply to my previous posts.

Edited October 3, 2009 by kirsche

[Candlejack]

But Haar >>>>> Volke.

Then again, Haar >> Every other character.

.... I'll put Lethality above Aether.

[Zkirsche]

Deadeye > Sol? Both have the same activation rate in one round and deal similar damage, except marskmen double, meaning they have a higher chance of killing something, which I'd rate higher than healing oneself, especially as most units are very durable.

But Haar >>>>> Volke.

So? We're obviously assuming Volke in play since it's only him that has lethality. It's like saying "Haar < Ike in the tier list, thus we can assume Ike is fielded when Haar isn't when comparing each other. We wouldn't get anything done.

Oh, and I'm still not seeing how Stun >>>>>>> Colossus, by a tier.

And I'm still waiting for a response to Eclipse into High.

Edited October 3, 2009 by kirsche

[Candlejack]

You're going to agree that most mastery skills except lolBane will be OHKO's right?

So you can make whatever Gold/Silver Knight, assuming it's anyone other than Fiona or Astrid, attack a dragon, and at the same time, have somebody like Shinon attack a dragon.

Paladin attacks using Wishblade with around 34 STR.

34 STR + 22 MT *3 - 42 = 126 HP taken from the evil dragon. The G/S Knight is doubling, attacks one turn, the dragon counterattacks taking off a decent chunk, and Sol activates.

Kills dragon and heals whatever damage they might have taken.

Let's say the same for Marksman Shinon:

Level -/20/10:

29 STR + 22 MT (Double Bow) *3 - 42 = 113 HP taken.

Shinon attacks from 2-range- well, this won't always be the case, but I digress- takes damage from the dragon, and Deadeye activates. OHKO's dragon... and Shinon is wounded, setting him up for a 2HKO.

Those Knights can recover what they lost, but Marksmen can't.

[Zkirsche]

There were various problems with your comparison:

34 STR + 22 MT *3 - 42 = 126 HP

1) Actually, the damage sol deals in this case is 3(34 Str + 22 MT - 42) or 42 damage. Or, a non-kill. And the dragon can attack you again on teh next enemy phase unless you finish him off - unlike Deadeye, which, at least if it activates, stuns the enemy, preventing this.

2) You chose the chapter which it favours Sol the most as units are taking lots of damage. 4-E-1, for example is heavily in deadeye's favour as enemy Atk values aren't nearly as high and the slow paladins aren't doubling, actually giving the deadeye chance a much better chance to activate and actually do something.

3) You forgot the double bow's MT and teh fact Shinon is liekly at a higher level.

[Candlejack]

Shinon IS probably higher than what I've stated at that point, but you've got more people than just him who can lolSolo many chapters given the experience.

Like Ike or Haar, whom the latter is actually better for 4-E-1 because eh flies around with Tomahawk and 15 RES and eh doesn't afraid of anything.

Shinon gets 3-range, Haar gets rape-range.

And Double Bow's MT IS 22. Dunno what you mean.

[Kupo]

And Double Bow's MT IS 22. Dunno what you mean.

Double Bow also gives +3 STR. It's probably the best SS weapon (1-3 range to boot).

What Paladin has 34 str? The only two paladins who can SS lances are Oscar and Geoffrey. Oscar will never hit 34 and if we assume he is 20/15 (which is quite high) he only has 30str. Geoffrey will have 33 str at 20/13 but it's highly unlikely he will reach even that by 4-E-3. For the sake of this we'll assume that it's Geoffrey who is attacking.

20/13 Geoffrey

3*(33 + 22 - 42) = 39 DMG.

20/14 Shinon (even though he's one base level higher than Oscar he doesn't have much of an enemy phase until 4-E-1)

3*(31 + 3 + 22 - 42) = 42 DMG

Shinon has a MT lead and like Kirsche said if it activates on the first hit, he doesn't have to deal with getting counterattacked. Likewise though Sol improves if it activates on the 2nd hit because it will heal Geoffrey. Although Sol has a lead on this map it's not as much as you made it out to be. And you chose probably the most skewed map to compare it on... most other times Geoffrey won't be doubling and and Shinon will, and due to his great skill, Deadeye will be activating more often (~33% vs ~40%). And since on most other maps it's a ORKO, activation rate wins.

You could argue Titania/Urvan though - but I'm not sure if she's doubling during the 4-E chapters. She'd win in 4-E-3 but not anywhere else if she can't double.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Kupo

[Candlejack]

Right, forgot about Double Bow's bonus.

Moving Deadeye.

[Florete]

And Double Bow's MT IS 22. Dunno what you mean.

Double Bow also gives +3 STR. It's probably the best SS weapon (1-3 range to boot).

Just a minor nitpick here. Double Bow only has 1-2 range, Marksmen as a class have the extra 3 range. If you ever use Astrid, you'll notice she only has 1-2 with it.

It's still the best SS weapon though. 25 MT makes it the strongest acquirable weapon in the game and 1-2 range (3 on a Marksman) can't really be any better.

[Iced]

And Double Bow's MT IS 22. Dunno what you mean.

Double Bow also gives +3 STR. It's probably the best SS weapon (1-3 range to boot).

Just a minor nitpick here. Double Bow only has 1-2 range, Marksmen as a class have the extra 3 range. If you ever use Astrid, you'll notice she only has 1-2 with it.

It's still the best SS weapon though. 25 MT makes it the strongest acquirable weapon in the game and 1-2 range (3 on a Marksman) can't really be any better.

Who uses astrid in RD?

[Jaybee]

Quite a few people do. Mainly because they think she'll be as good as she was in FE9 and because she's hawt.

[Candlejack]

... Astrid? HOT? FE10??? DENTAL PLAN?!?

Wow, some people are more retarded than Falcoknight Est fans.

[Ether]

And Double Bow's MT IS 22. Dunno what you mean.

Double Bow also gives +3 STR. It's probably the best SS weapon (1-3 range to boot).

Just a minor nitpick here. Double Bow only has 1-2 range, Marksmen as a class have the extra 3 range. If you ever use Astrid, you'll notice she only has 1-2 with it.

It's still the best SS weapon though. 25 MT makes it the strongest acquirable weapon in the game and 1-2 range (3 on a Marksman) can't really be any better.

Who uses astrid in RD?

There is nothing wrong with my Astrid Solo

[Florete]

Who uses astrid in RD?

Me.

... Astrid? HOT? FE10??? DENTAL PLAN?!?

Wow, some people are more retarded than Falcoknight Est fans.

Wtf is this shit?

Having a different opinion of beauty makes someone retarded? You'd better watch how you say things, that last line could be taken pretty offensively.

[Candlejack]

Who uses astrid in RD?

Me.

... Astrid? HOT? FE10??? DENTAL PLAN?!?

Wow, some people are more retarded than Falcoknight Est fans.

Wtf is this shit?

Having a different opinion of beauty makes someone retarded? You'd better watch how you say things, that last line could be taken pretty offensively.

... Let me settle things here and now.

Her OA makes her look good, if slightly a little bit "I'm on Ecstasy" looking. But in game... dear God, it's like somebody shat on a canvas, put some olives in it, and called it a day. This would also explain her performance in-game. I WOULD GO SO FAR AS TO SAY MEG > ASTRID in FE10.

[Iced]

Who uses astrid in RD?

Me.

... Astrid? HOT? FE10??? DENTAL PLAN?!?

Wow, some people are more retarded than Falcoknight Est fans.

Wtf is this shit?

Having a different opinion of beauty makes someone retarded? You'd better watch how you say things, that last line could be taken pretty offensively.

anything

... Let me settle things here and now.

Her OA makes her look good, if slightly a little bit "I'm on Ecstasy" looking. But in game... dear God, it's like somebody shat on a canvas, put some olives in it, and called it a day. This would also explain her performance in-game. I WOULD GO SO FAR AS TO SAY MEG > ASTRID in FE10.

you're insane Meg > Everyone(well maybe not Lyre but...) In FE10

Edited October 5, 2009 by I Like My Cake Iced

[Candlejack]

Meg ≥ Lyre

[CGV]

Astrid kinda reminds me of Hinata in a way. The eyes, the personality, the fact that they both like people who dress in bright orange. Aren't that great of fighters in comparison to everyone else

And yes, I do think Astrid is cute, not hot, cute. Yes, there IS a difference

Edited October 9, 2009 by CGV

[Silith]

To get back on Astra/Astrum.

It has a pretty low activation rate and thanks to the low Str cap it won't always kill if the enemy is a High def one.

Tear from the Bird LAguz is the strongest skill there is thanks to the highest activation rate in the game while always resulting in a OHKO. Rend from Cats is a close second.

[Kupo]

To get back on Astra/Astrum.

It has a pretty low activation rate and thanks to the low Str cap it won't always kill if the enemy is a High def one.

Tear from the Bird LAguz is the strongest skill there is thanks to the highest activation rate in the game while always resulting in a OHKO. Rend from Cats is a close second.

Good point. It's true that Tear has the highest possible activation rate (that is, 50% with Naesala at max SPD - granted, that's at 36, but all the same). Even base Naesala has better activation rate than any beorc unit, even if it's only by 2%. And yes, it OHKO's red dragons (Hard Mode):

Base Tibarn (hopefully by 4-E-3 he has at least a few levels, but I'll leave him at base) vs Red Dragon on a cover

[36 * 3 + 20] - 47

= 81, OHKO.

I never use laguz so I don't know a reasonable level for Ulki or Janaff or I guess Vika (all of whom break the 20 SPD cap). But it looks like they could probably pull it off if said dragon wasn't on a cover and possibly if it was.

Base Naesala leaves them with something like 4-5 HP and he's doubling so he at least ORKOs (as do all hawks and ravens).

This is definitely a big advantage for Tear.

Rend doesn't get any bonuses in terms of activation rate, but yes it's been established that it is indeed the strongest skill in the game (although now that Tear can OHKO red dragons, I don't really see the benefits). Perhaps Tear's superior activation rate is enough to put it in the top spot.

[Kupo]

Double post again >< Sorry!

Edited October 10, 2009 by Kupo

[nflchamp]

To get back on Astra/Astrum.

It has a pretty low activation rate and thanks to the low Str cap it won't always kill if the enemy is a High def one.

Tear from the Bird LAguz is the strongest skill there is thanks to the highest activation rate in the game while always resulting in a OHKO. Rend from Cats is a close second.

Tear doesn't kill everything. 111MT is required for the weakest red dragons that aren't on cover tiles. 124MT for the strongest on cover tiles. Hawks and Ravens not named Tibarn or Naesala need SS strike and 16 STR for the weakest and 18 STR for the strongest. I'll note that Ravens can't even get 18 STR; they cap STR at 16.

[Zkirsche]

Astrid isn't hot, she's cute, but not hot.

Anyway, Tear >>> Stun for higher proc rate and damage output (3* strength instead of 3* damage).

[eharper256]

<puts hand up>

I use Astrid in RD. She capped STR & SPD and was very nice with DoubleBow. Though she needed hardcore babying and killer bow bought for her in the early chapters. Agree on cute in OA, but hot in doujinshi. That is all. LOL.

As for Astra, I've only rarely seen it activate, to be frank. It looks darn cool to activate, but nevertheless, it is probably lower tier than most of the ultimate skills simply because it hoovers up weapon durability. I suppose thats a non-issue once you get the invincible weapon blessing though.