FE4 character ratings

[Dat Nick]

You said that they have good durability. Cuan, Sigurd and Lex have good durability so comparing them to people with good offense and durability is showing why Alec and Noish have bad durability.

They're awful examples of attempting to prove that Alec and Noish suck because Cuan, Sigurd, and Lex are all ridiculously h4x. Also, if you'll recall? You even said they were similar defensively by saying that armors 3RKO Sigurd and 3-4RKO them.

So how in the hell is comparable durability to Sigurd a bad thing? Was I asleep or something?

While ppl like Cuan, Lex, and Sigurd 2RKO, Alec and Noish take like 4 rounds to KO armors.

Meaning not ORKOing doesn't stand out as much.

Alec and Noish take like 4 rounds to KO armors. This bad because now they take a lot more counters. Good swords have huge competition in the first generation where your characters don't completely rock.

...They aren't going to be fighting armors alone, you realize.

m not sure why you insist on getting through to the 5 arena round as good.

I don't know why you're disregarding it as any arena action at all, and remember that I'm sandbagging them here and wasn't even giving them levels on the map.

Even with the hero sword they still might not win to the faster enemies like Sword fighters.

???? Hero Sword attacks twice regardless of how high the enemy AS is.

[Salad Utensil]

They're awful examples of attempting to prove that Alec and Noish suck because Cuan, Sigurd, and Lex are all ridiculously h4x. Also, if you'll recall? You even said they were similar defensively by saying that armors 3RKO Sigurd and 3-4RKO them.

So how in the hell is comparable durability to Sigurd a bad thing? Was I asleep or something?

BTW stuff in bold silly me, I'm not sure why I typed blatantly obvious wrong information. I'll have to check numbers in the prolouge and chapter 1 and 2 later to see really how much they can actually handle. Dodge wasn't even factored, but whatever. Fine they have standard physical unit durability like Holyn and Beowulf and Fin not good durability like the rest unless that is your definition of good which is just as arbitrary as mine.

So who does have good durability besides them? do you want me to compare the cavaliers durability to Dew's? You made the claim they had good durability and offense, so I compared them to people with good durability. Do you want me to compare them to offense of Azel against an armor too?

ORKO isn't unique

<_< don't straw man my argument.

I'm going to have to check real numbers not ones I just estimating, but 4 RKO is really bad. When 2RKO>4RKO Counters are also bad too.

I think the only ones who can one round the armors in chapter 2 are Azel, Lex and Sigurd(if strength blessed), Jamka/Midir (with killer bow and skill activation), Holyn and Aira (with skill activation), Fin with hero lance (by than it doesn't matter), Cuan with continue (lol like that will happen), Steel sword Noish with his awesome ~10 skill MIGHT critical and kill if he has enough strength. The only thing Alec and Noish do is deal chip damage while incurring a strong counter from the armors.

...They aren't going to be fighting armors alone, you realize.

What's your point? I also agree there are other characters that are being deployed when they are too.

I don't know why you're disregarding it as any arena action at all, and remember that I'm sandbagging them here and wasn't even giving them levels on the map..

I'm not even sure they can get to 5 because the chapter 3 arena has a dark mage and the chapter 4 one has really strong stuff like wind mages. I'm also skeptical as to how much Exp the first 5 actually give without the elite ring, I'm fairly certain it is not enough for 1 level up depending on their level.

???? Hero Sword attacks twice regardless of how high the enemy AS is.

Yup that is true that is how hero sword works. They also might lose to armors, Dragon knights, anything that has good defense and decent dodge.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Brighton

[Dat Nick]

So who does have good durability besides them? do you want me to compare the cavaliers durability to Dew's? You made the claim they had good durability and offense, so I compared them to people with good durability. Do you want me to compare them to offense of Azel against an armor too?

That isn't what I'm saying, I'm saying "look these guys are worse than Sigurd" isn't a good way to illustrate how a character sucks. I could do the exact same thing in say, Sigurd vs Holyn to make Holyn look bad by this logic. Use Fin or something, iono, somebody around their level.

So who does have good durability besides them? do you want me to compare the cavaliers durability to Dew's? You made the claim they had good durability and offense, so I compared them to people with good durability.

"unkillable" fits Sigurd's durability better than "good".

don't straw man my argument.

...The hell? I didn't. I took your numbers directly and posted an accurate assessment from them, one that remains true. Not ORKOing is not as big of an issue against enemy types that freaking Sigurd cannot one round. If I were strawmanning you, I would say something like "Oh, but Alec and Noish never fight armors so that's irrelevant". Please understand what a debate term means before you use it.

When 2RKO>4RKO Counters are also bad too.

Again, one unit is not fighting these armors alone.

Steel sword Noish with his awesome ~10 skill MIGHT critical and kill if he has enough strength. The only thing Alec and Noish do is deal chip damage while incurring a strong counter from the armors.

....You don't even know what the term "chip damage" means, do you?

Second, at least Noish MIGHT kill the armor as opposed to Sigurd always not killing it. You also skipped over charge activation.

What's your point?

My point is you said that 4RKOing was bad for a unit's durability. This statement doesn't make any sense unless you're assuming only one unit fights one armor at a time and nobody aids another unit in weakening that armor so it can die in one turn.

I'm also skeptical as to how much Exp the first 5 actually give without the elite ring, I'm fairly certain it is not enough for 1 level up depending on their level.

wtf of course it is. It's enough for two or even three. Enemy levels might be low, their levels are low too. I don't know how the hell you can sandbag them this badly and not be aware of it but please stop.

Yup that is true that is how hero sword works. They also might lose to armors, Dragon knights, anything that has good defense and decent dodge.

...Um, then why the hell did you label "fast swordsmen" as a problem if they use the hero sword? Also, decent dodge? Wha...?

Edited October 3, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[NoNameAtAll]

Yup that is true that is how hero sword works. They also might lose to armors, Dragon knights, anything that has good defense and decent dodge.

Decent dodge. In a game with 1 RN.

Uh...what?

[Sasori]

I dissagree with azel being bad because he wont begin with a horse levin does not have a horse at all but he is considered god(well he is since he has lolsety but still) the only thing you have to do is let your mounted units move in a way so that azel can keep up with them same goes with ira edin jamka and everyone who does not have a horse.

But i do agree that azel has defence and evade problems

[Dat Nick]

Decent dodge. In a game with 1 RN.

High hit rates hit less often in 1 RN, remember.

Still, there's no way the hero sword would reliably miss regardless of who's using it.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[Rodykitty]

Having 5 Mov = insta-fail in FE4.

I don't even think I promoted Azel in my first playthrough due to his movement problems.

[Dat Nick]

speaking of Azel

He has basically no chance of even reaching combat, and he isn't even good at it.

This statement is not 100% correct. Azel is quite good at combat. He's like the only person ORKOing the armors and he kills axemen pretty consistently as well. Furthermore, a Thunder Tome buyable in C2 gets him out of the negative AS. His durability sucks, but not taking counters make that slightly less of an issue. Azel's unpromoted move is really the only reason why he sucks. Which is a shame, because promoted Azel is total beast since not only are his move issues solved, he has Canto to gtfo from stuff, which is another way for him to work around his durability issues.

I'm just nitpicking, but still.

[Salad Utensil]

That isn't what I'm saying, I'm saying "look these guys are worse than Sigurd" isn't a good way to illustrate how a character sucks. I could do the exact same thing in say, Sigurd vs Holyn to make Holyn look bad by this logic. Use Fin or something, iono, somebody around their level.

I see now...I guess we should compare them to Fin and Holyn, though I don't consider them to have good durability, but I'll try to post some numbers later or something

"unkillable" fits Sigurd's durability better than "good".

That isn't quite true. He just has good durability because he has good bases, high HP growth, and leadership evasion bonuses. Mages are still dangerous though, he isn't 'invincible' like Levn with Holsety and even he still has a chance of dying

...The hell? I didn't. I took your numbers directly and posted an accurate assessment from them, one that remains true. Not ORKOing is not as big of an issue against enemy types that freaking Sigurd cannot one round. If I were strawmanning you, I would say something like "Oh, but Alec and Noish never fight armors so that's irrelevant". Please understand what a debate term means before you use it.

I know what straw man means. I felt like you were misrepresenting my statement by saying that everyone who doesn't 1RKO is equal.

When 2RKO>4RKO Counters are also bad too.

Response: They aren't fighting enemies alone.

4RKO is not the definition of good offense you made in your original post, but I guess that is an opinion. BTW they aren't fighting enemies alone doesn't disprove my claim

....You don't even know what the term "chip damage" means, do you?

Second, at least Noish MIGHT kill the armor as opposed to Sigurd always not killing it. You also skipped over charge activation.

They deal 'chip damage' meaning somehow that equates to good offense and durability? Charge means Noish now takes 2 counters if he doesn't 2RKO. @bold: Please also don't patronize men

So now 4HKO (might not be accurate until I actually check) is good? did you ignore the fact they also might get hit with counters?

wtf of course it is. It's enough for two or even three. Enemy levels might be low, their levels are low too. I don't know how the hell you can sandbag them this badly and not be aware of it but please stop.

Maybe it is two level, but 3 is pushing it. But still the arena enemies aren't really a joke. Lets look at the arenas in Pseudo-depth:

Chapter 1:

The Axe fighter is so easy even Dew can beat him, but its only at level 1 so I'm not seeing much Exp gain

The mage has fire and bad defense so its Easy since I doesn't 2hit ko most PCs

The lance knight is doable for Alec easily, Noish too

The sword fighter will doable you so I guess it requires some RNG manipulation so its possible

The Axe armor is easy for both

No one except Sigurd, His wife, or Jamka/Midir with killer bow will likely beat the wind mage

The general has 17 defense and 59 HP its not going to be easy to beat.

Chapter 2:

A silly axefighter

A silly fire mage

A lance knight with a STEEL lance. Alec should win with pursuit, Noish needs to hit every hit and dodge once

This sword fighter is even stronger. Pray for a bunch of dodges with a lance

This armor knight is pretty tough because WTD isn't helping you this time

This thunder mage 2HKOs everyone and has a ring to make it hard to kill. Sigurd might even have problems

Holyn...Keimos...Fin, Cuan, Aira, Sigurd are the only ones that might make it.

Chapter 3:

A social knight this time...Alec and Noish need to be trained to beat it, but doable with pursuit or a lance

Easy Axe knight

The sword fight has a strong weapon, Alec MIGHT double it depending on its level or with a slim sword (never happened before)

Another steel lance armor, requires some lucky dodges

Everyone except some people die in 2 hits. It also has very high defense with its shield ring

They are not going to beath 6

Chapter 4:

I have never had them promoted by this chapter before the civilian level ups arrive I kid you not.

The enemies are really though here, but Wind is now buyable YAY

Chapter 5:

If they still aren't promoted and finally upgrade thier swords (still competition though) they are not making it past 3

...Um, then why the hell did you label "fast swordsmen" as a problem if they use the hero sword? Also, decent dodge? Wha...?

IDK because they do have pursuit too? Armor-based units have good defense. As do wyvern knights. Pegasus knights come with good weapons. Mages 2Hit KO like everyone, except maybe Azel and Diadora.

[Salad Utensil]

speaking of Azel

He has basically no chance of even reaching combat, and he isn't even good at it.

This statement is not 100% correct. Azel is quite good at combat. He's like the only person ORKOing the armors and he kills axemen pretty consistently as well. Furthermore, a Thunder Tome buyable in C2 gets him out of the negative AS. His durability sucks, but not taking counters make that slightly less of an issue. Azel's unpromoted move is really the only reason why he sucks. Which is a shame, because promoted Azel is total beast since not only are his move issues solved, he has Canto to gtfo from stuff, which is another way for him to work around his durability issues.

I'm just nitpicking, but still.

I agree. If given Levn's EL wind after promotion(temporarily, and returned by BOB) he rocks. He can actually make use of his good speed as well.

Azel's move issue can be mitigated slightly with good planning. In chapter 2 you can move him to the ledge and snipe at enemies. Chapter 3 forces your team to split up anyways. Chapter 4 Wind is buyable so he can actually beat the arena for once. He can easily be promoted by the start of chapter 4.

[_____]

This statement is not 100% correct. Azel is quite good at combat. He's like the only person ORKOing the armors

Except for Sigurd, Noish with a critical, Cuan with Continue, Midir with Charge, Jamka in general, Ayra with Meteor Sword, Holyn, Levin, Lex...

Well, mostly everyone.

and he kills axemen pretty consistently as well.

Considering how the axemen in Chapter 1 are grouped pretty close together everywhere and Azel's durability is pathetic, that's not really something to scream about.

Furthermore, a Thunder Tome buyable in C2 gets him out of the negative AS.

But that doesn't matter. His doubling was never contested, since he's pretty much restricted to Armors that are left behind by others.

His durability sucks, but not taking counters make that slightly less of an issue.

It is an issue if you want to have an enemy phase and actually gain some levels.

Azel's unpromoted move is really the only reason why he sucks.

And durability and AS in Chapter 1 and inability to complete the arena and...

Which is a shame, because promoted Azel is total beast since not only are his move issues solved, he has Canto to gtfo from stuff, which is another way for him to work around his durability issues.

Total beast? I'm pretty sure that guys like Alec and even Noish are still beating him, since of the whole enemy phase exposure deal. "Beast"? Not even close.

I agree. If given Levn's EL wind after promotion(temporarily, and returned by BOB) he rocks. He can actually make use of his good speed as well.

Why are we even bothering to give it to Azel? Levin doesn't want to blow all of his money using Holsety the entire time.

In chapter 2 you can move him to the ledge and snipe at enemies.

Which ledge? The ledge near the villages? He isn't getting even close to that before the chapter ends.

Chapter 3 forces your team to split up anyways.

And? Azel's doing badly both times. If he goes over to Eltshan, he'll be slaughtered by the Cross Knights (javelins, too, to throw salt in an open wound) and won't help against the pirates or the enemies that come near you.

If he goes to the pirates and that Jabarro recolor near the top, he can't get in range of the Ballistae, and he's sniping one pirate a turn. That's not helpful.

Chapter 4 Wind is buyable so he can actually beat the arena for once.

Being able to beat the arena? Hardly.

Even assuming Azel somehow got to level 15 and had Wind, Azel won't make it past the 4th combatant.

It's a Pegasus Knight with a Hero Lance, the ability to 2HKO Azel, and a 70% chance of hitting Azel. I'm fairly sure that Wind is not effective against flying units in this game, so Azel 4HKOs this particular unit, allowing for her to attack 4 times, greatly increasing her chance to hit. He's not going to make it through.

He can easily be promoted by the start of chapter 4.

Maybe if he's given the Elite Ring and five times the kills he's actually getting.

Also, a 2 point difference between Azel and Lex... Do you even realize the magnitude of Lex's win, luigi bros?

Edited October 4, 2009 by Ninji

[Dat Nick]

Except for Sigurd, Noish with a critical, Cuan with Continue, Midir with Charge, Jamka in general, Ayra with Meteor Sword, Holyn, Levin, Lex...

"nearly everybody" needing a skill activation to do it. Azel does it 100% of the time and he can't even miss.

And didn't we just settle that Sigurd isnt ORKOing armors?

Considering how the axemen in Chapter 1 are grouped pretty close together everywhere and Azel's durability is pathetic, that's not really something to scream about.

I'm not saying it is. You do realize what I'm arguing, right? I am fully aware Azel is a shit unit. I'm saying his problems stem from move, not stats.

And durability and AS in Chapter 1 and inability to complete the arena and...

hm? How is his AS in chapter 1 a problem? Yes he's weighed down, but so are the axemen. By a load.

That isn't quite true. He just has good durability because he has good bases, high HP growth, and leadership evasion bonuses. Mages are still dangerous though, he isn't 'invincible' like Levn with Holsety and even he still has a chance of dying

Sigurd has res and One shots mages up close. It's not that bad for him, and if it is, he can just pull out a jav.

I know what straw man means. I felt like you were misrepresenting my statement by saying that everyone who doesn't 1RKO is equal.

See, now YOU'RE strawmanning me, because this is not what I said at all. I said them not ORKOing makes the problem of them not ORKOing stand out less.

4RKO is not the definition of good offense you made in your original post

Just because they have bad offense against one enemy type doesn't mean they have bad offense overall.

BTW they aren't fighting enemies alone doesn't disprove my claim

It disproves that portion of it. Sigurd hits something with Silver, Alec/Noish finishes it. No counters at all.

They deal 'chip damage' meaning somehow that equates to good offense and durability?

...Chip damage means damage from a distance without a counter.

The Axe fighter is so easy even Dew can beat him, but its only at level 1 so I'm not seeing much Exp gain

They aren't much higher than level 1. That's something you keep ignoring.

IDK because they do have pursuit too?

...And? The Hero Sword will kill before they get a chance to attack on the player phase, anmd all they'll do is hit with 1 weak attack on the enemy phase.

[_____]

"nearly everybody" needing a skill activation to do it. Azel does it 100% of the time and he can't even miss.

Azel does kill these types of enemies more efficiently than others, admittedly, but, remember, armors aren't the most common enemy type in the game like they are in the 2nd Gen.

And didn't we just settle that Sigurd isnt ORKOing armors?

If it was established, I didn't notice it.

I'm not saying it is. You do realize what I'm arguing, right? I am fully aware Azel is a shit unit. I'm saying his problems stem from move, not stats.

I know. I'm saying his stats aren't exactly spectacular, either.

hm? How is his AS in chapter 1 a problem? Yes he's weighed down, but so are the axemen. By a load.

I forgot that Axes weighed that much. >_<;

[Salad Utensil]

See, now YOU'RE strawmanning me, because this is not what I said at all. I said them not ORKOing makes the problem of them not ORKOing stand out less.

So you're talking about mitigation...

Just because they have bad offense against one enemy type doesn't mean they have bad offense overall.

Sure we should examine how they fare on other enemies too. They do well against Axe users and mages with swords

It disproves that portion of it. Sigurd hits something with Silver, Alec/Noish finishes it. No counters at all.

I suppose...but Dew can do that too.

...Chip damage means damage from a distance without a counter.

Ok with the 2 javilins and the 3 magic swords? I guess.

They aren't much higher than level 1. That's something you keep ignoring.

For the first Arena...

...And? The Hero Sword will kill before they get a chance to attack on the player phase, anmd all they'll do is hit with 1 weak attack on the enemy phase.

I was talking about the arena not on map, but sure maybe. I'm pretty sure it can one round mages though, though not the rediculous dark mage in the chapter 3 Arena where not even Levn can beat without a bunch of lucky dodges.

BTW I'm not even that sure what we are arguing about anymore. I think 5.5 is fine for them, didn't we already agree? All this is making me want to play FE4 again.

[Dat Nick]

I suppose...but Dew can do that too.

DEW? Are you freaking serious? Dew can't do more than one damage to them and he doesn't even have pursuit.

Ok with the 2 javilins and the 3 magic swords? I guess.

...No? I never argued they were going to chip them, I was saying that your definition of what chip damage is was incorrect.

[Salad Utensil]

DEW? Are you freaking serious? Dew can't do more than one damage to them and he doesn't even have pursuit.

No, I wasn't serious like a lot of things I posted. IDK Lachesis with a steel blade or something can finish up an enemy early on >_>. I've just been "debating" (if you call it that) that Alec and Noish aren't great which we've established already. I really depends on the definition of good (quantitatively).

[Rodykitty]

I really depends on the definition of good (quantitatively).

-Broken

-Overpowered

-Great

-Good

-Average

-Poor

-Est

Characters that fall under broken or overpowered do not mean that characters that fall under good should be considered terrible.

[Salad Utensil]

I really depends on the definition of good (quantitatively).

-Broken

-Overpowered

-Great

-Good

-Average

-Poor

-Est

Characters that fall under broken or overpowered do not mean that characters that fall under good should be considered terrible.

I've just been using:

Good

Mediocre

Bad

Diadora without Circet while wielding Aura

[Rodykitty]

Yeah, that doesn't really work, because there's such thing as being more good than actually necessary.

[Renall]

Sigurd and Levin are anything but invincible. Sigurd only has 9/3 as his DEF/RES base and 35 HP. Alec has 32 HP and 7 DEF and Noish has 33 HP and 8 DEF. By 20ish, Sigurd's HP will be a little better than those guys have, but he ties DEF with Alec and loses to Noish. If Sigurd's durability is so great, why is he tying his cavaliers and a mere +2 DEF up on Midir in the end? Granted he crushes him in HP but Midir isn't exactly supposed to be a tank. Where durability is concerned, Cuan and Lex come closest in Gen 1. And their durability over Sigurd isn't huge. Certainly they're both killable.

Levin only gets durability with Holsety and promotion, whereupon he'll have 45 base Evade which is pretty good. He never gets double-digit DEF. His HP is never as good as a child's is (Sety has more HP at base than Levin has until 19 and ends with almost 10 more). And all of this happens at the end of ch4. Last I checked he's around longer than that. The children of Gen 2 can be "invincible," even given slightly harder generics. Nobody in Gen 1 is really "invincible." Except maybe Levin. At the end of the generation.

[Salad Utensil]

Sigurd and Levin are anything but invincible. Sigurd only has 9/3 as his DEF/RES base and 35 HP. Alec has 32 HP and 7 DEF and Noish has 33 HP and 8 DEF. By 20ish, Sigurd's HP will be a little better than those guys have, but he ties DEF with Alec and loses to Noish. If Sigurd's durability is so great, why is he tying his cavaliers and a mere +2 DEF up on Midir in the end? Granted he crushes him in HP but Midir isn't exactly supposed to be a tank. Where durability is concerned, Cuan and Lex come closest in Gen 1. And their durability over Sigurd isn't huge. Certainly they're both killable.

Levin only gets durability with Holsety and promotion, whereupon he'll have 45 base Evade which is pretty good. He never gets double-digit DEF. His HP is never as good as a child's is (Sety has more HP at base than Levin has until 19 and ends with almost 10 more). And all of this happens at the end of ch4. Last I checked he's around longer than that. The children of Gen 2 can be "invincible," even given slightly harder generics. Nobody in Gen 1 is really "invincible." Except maybe Levin. At the end of the generation.

Sigurd also has that 10 leadership bonus that he always has and an auto lover that can't die (for what it's worth) too. I'm not really sure, but it seems to me that good durability also stems from good offense in Gen 1. While Sigurd can PWn the Axe users in chapter 1 and 2, Alec and Noish have to take turns hitting with steel swords to get kills. It just seems characters that can kill easier seem to level better due to more ease in gaining Exp. I can't think of any instance in the entire 1 generation that Noish or Alec every one rounded anything.

Yes, PEMN and I realize it, but it seems that in order to kill, the cavaliers require them to be set up for them, or is it just me? Am I the only one who always has Sigurd at a way higher level than the knights due to him actually killing stuff? In prolouge in order to finish it in 14 turns I had to restrain Sigurd to prevent him from killing everything with his steel sword, he still ended up at level 9 whereas everyone except for Lex and Cuan were at level 2-3 because, Midir came late, Azel has 5 move, Arden..., Ethlin only has access to live at the moment, Alec and Noish tried their best...

Edited October 4, 2009 by Brighton

[Renall]

I usually have Alec and Noish attack the same guy on the player phase.

Yes, Sigurd is much better because of his offense, but offense doesn't necessarily always work in your favor. On the player phase, killing a guy means he can't attack next turn, but on the enemy phase, killing too many attackers can be bad news.

I'm just saying it's not his durability alone that's really all that godlike. And maligning some of the other characters' durability at the expense of pimping Sigurd or Levin is a bit disingenuous. Many of them are pretty good for durability, but none of them can't be killed.

[Salad Utensil]

I usually have Alec and Noish attack the same guy on the player phase.

I do that too, usually let Noish get the kill though so combined they only take one counter. The hand axe bandits require Fin/Lex/Cuan to be factor into the equation before it will die though.

*Sigh* fine I realize on paper their durability is comparable to Sigurd's however I find their bad offense leads to them being underleveled later on which may be why they have trouble being good (for me Yes I know PEMN).

For my next 4Ranks run does anyone have any advice on getting them to level 30? Arden usually ends up at level 15, Sylvia at level 20 usually causing EXP problems later if I can't max out Leen's, Hannibal's, Yulia's, and Johan's Level later in the game. Alec and Noish usually Promote at chapter 5 because apparently I suck at using them and they end up at level 22-23 after attacking those level 30 mountain thieves with iron swords.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Brighton

[Rodykitty]

Sigurd is still above and beyond your other units, regardless if you can prove he's not Zagaro-like or not.

All I am saying is that "hey, this character isn't as good as Sigurd, AUTO-FAIL" shouldn't be the mindset to have. Look at the characters versus the enemies.

[Salad Utensil]

Sigurd is still above and beyond your other units, regardless if you can prove he's not Zagaro-like or not.

All I am saying is that "hey, this character isn't as good as Sigurd, AUTO-FAIL" shouldn't be the mindset to have. Look at the characters versus the enemies.

That isn't my mindset, my problem with Alec and Noish is they have trouble improving. Especially offensively. They have B swords and C lances meaning that you could give them the javilin, the hero sword, the cutter, the clipper, the magic sword, in order for them to kill, but it seems that they still have to contend with bad offense without those nice things. Fin has enough speed to double other lancers and he can actually use good lances like Steel and silver later. Aira and Holyn can use the claymores to deal rediculous damage and a silver sword too if they want. Its just that they have so much trouble killing they end up underleveled once you start deploying 20+ characters and end up will problems gaining Exp. At least Dew has Bargain and Steal so he can actually afford things like elite rings and pursuit rings and magic swords to help improve him easier.

What tactics am I supposed to use to improve them so I can actually max their level later? Advice?