FE3 Efficiency Tier List Book 2

[grandjackal]

Last topic is long dead I'm sure. Besides, now things to be considered that there are probably plenty of errors in that one, now that we have a different idea on how to play things.

One thing I wish to note however is that Star Orbs will not be considered, otherwise I'd just put up the character list and call it a day, save a couple prepromotes like Arran. Star Orbs just turn you into gods, so I don't really care to measure it when the only factor then would just be when the hell you show up.

Not sure how to feel about stat boosters. Of course they're good, but they give INSANE boosts as opposed to the +2 of later years. It's almost the same as star orbs. Consider or no?

Stats can be found here- http://www.serenesforest.net/fe3/enemy_data.html

Couple things to note.

-Avoid is unreliable. You're never gonna get it to high enough levels to reliable, and the 1 RN system is quite a bit more erradic than 2.

-There is no useful 1-2 range outside of magic, which comes with the fact that most mages are not exactly durable. Javelins are garunteed 0 AS, only other options are the weak Thunder Swords and the Gradius. It's nice to have, but they aren't ultimatums.

-Obvious things will be considered, flight, move, durability, offense, use of ranged combat, the likes. It will be quite standard till we start figuring things out again, you can blame my shitty memory.

-Top-

Paula

Sirius

Ogma

Marth

Katua

-High-

Xane

Feena

Cecile

Navarre

Luke

Roddy

Linde

Minerva

Wendel

Yumina

-Mid-

Kain

Julian

Kashim

Shiida

Yubello

Doga

Maric

Elren

George

Gordon

Malissa

Tiki

Abel

-Low-

Arran

Banut

Warren

Matthis

Ryan

Rickard

Samuto

Astram

-Bottom-

Midia

Samson

Est

Roshe

Sheema

Obviously inaccurate, but I think we had to start over now having a new mindset of how to play the game. So, without further ado, let's tear this thing apart.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Galactica Leader Cyrus

[Blademaster!]

Katua up. She is essentially a flying Marth who uses lances and can't use the rapier. Also, she receives a support bonus from him.

Xane down only due to his availability.

Navarre should probably go up too.

I imagine Abel and Tiki could go up to. Abel has pretty nice stats and he supports Paola. I can't remember how dragon transformations are calculated at the moment (stats), so I can't make a good argument for Tiki.

Those are the only preliminary suggestions I can think of.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Blademaster!

[Fei Mao]

Tiki should go up considering her transformation last for 5 turns, and can take out enemies better than Astram can and more durable also than Astram. (probably possible above Abel)

@Blademaster Divine Stone gives tiki: STR+10 Skil+10 Spd-3 Def+9 Res+0 Mov+2

I think Wendell above Minerva, considering he has good chip damage and good weapon level so he can use a good amount of staffs, though is flying utility and supports for the whitewings from Minerva>than Wendell's good weapon level and chip damage?

Katua should move up also

Edited October 17, 2009 by Generic Officer

[Mekkah]

So basically this is a list of how good character's stats and everything are if you ignore all the orbs? That doesn't really reflect anything, but...

Kashim is more pro than this, particularly in indoor maps where over half your team is locked to swords.

[grandjackal]

Katua up. She is essentially a flying Marth who uses lances and can't use the rapier. Also, she receives a support bonus from him.

Marth has plenty of advantages himself, those being clear rights to the Boots, Rapier, basically giving supports to several people, and the fact he's forced, along with not having a bow weakness.

Xane down only due to his availability.

With all the things he can do? Not happening. He's quite literally able to do ANYTHING on any map, given your team is fitted as such.

Navarre should probably go up too.

Yeah, probably.

I imagine Abel and Tiki could go up to. Abel has pretty nice stats and he supports Paola. I can't remember how dragon transformations are calculated at the moment (stats), so I can't make a good argument for Tiki.

Those are the only preliminary suggestions I can think of.

My only issue with Abel is his 5 luck, which is noticeably bad in a game where skill=crit, and enemies aren't skilless in this game.

Tiki should go up considering her transformation last for 5 turns, and can take out enemies better than Astram can and more durable also than Astram. (probably possible above Abel)

@Blademaster Divine Stone gives tiki: STR+10 Skil+10 Spd-3 Def+9 Res+0 Mov+2

All fine and dandy, but hte problem is she gets doubled by anything with 3 AS, of which there are plenty in this game. This isn't book 2, where it's laughable to think enemies ever get that sort of speed. This is especially a problem later when silvers enter the equation.

Those boosts also do not pass through caps, so if the boosts reach 20 Str, that's the best it's ever gonna get, as it's not like GBA dragon stones.

I think Wendell above Minerva, considering he has good chip damage and good weapon level so he can use a good amount of staffs, though is flying utility and supports for the whitewings from Minerva>than Wendell's good weapon level and chip damage?

Certainly a possibility, but another thing she has going for her is durability and the ability to take a healing attempt away from Medius. What Wendel does is great and all, but there are other factors to think over.

I will wait to see what others say though.

As for Katua, how high you guys want her?

EDIT: Bleh, no stats to your knowledg then, Mekkah? Perhaps I should have held on this then...

Edited October 17, 2009 by Galactica Leader Cyrus

[Blademaster!]

What about other dragon stones?

Also, I forgot to mention this, but I think Sheema should be above Roshe. Considering that Roshe only has 2 chapters where he can use his mount and without it his stats are barely higher than hers (except HP where he has a decent lead and luk where Sheema has 1 point more luk than him) with a 7 level lead is just terrible, along with the fact she is one of your only two units who can use the Gradivus on the last 4 chapters (aka final). Also, although this would be favoritism, Sheema joins you on a chapter where you have easy access towards gaining levels and can easily level her. I only bring this up since Roshe doesn't have access to such favoritism, but I guess you can say the same about the star-orb shards in a sense.

I imagine Katua would just be in high under Marth.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Blademaster!

[Dr. Tarrasque]

What about other dragon stones?

Use.the.site. It won't kill you.

Katua should be right below Sirius.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Vergil

[Fei Mao]

I don't think Sheema has a chance to move up considering the fact she needs a lot of stat boosters poured into her before she can handle herself and get some exp.

Sure she can use Gravadius but what makes her better user of it when someone like Doga who starts out earlier and can match Sheema by the time you recruit her? (considering for the final indoor maps)

Edited October 17, 2009 by Generic Officer

[grandjackal]

What about other dragon stones?

Also, I forgot to mention this, but I think Sheema should be above Roshe. Considering that Roshe only has 2 chapters where he can use his mount and without it his stats are barely higher than hers (except HP where he has a decent lead and luk where Sheema has 1 point more luk than him) with a 7 level lead is just terrible, along with the fact she is one of your only two units who can use the Gradivus on the last 4 chapters (aka final). Also, although this would be favoritism, Sheema joins you on a chapter where you have easy access towards gaining levels and can easily level her. I only bring this up since Roshe doesn't have access to such favoritism, but I guess you can say the same about the star-orb shards in a sense.

I imagine Katua would just be in high under Marth.

Other dragonstones are head-explodingly expensive. This game has pretty tight purse strings. 18,000 to buy a stone. About 72,000 gold you get naturally. That's a rather huge chunk taken out of the bill. In fact, that's the first 3 chapter's worth of gold just yanked out of your hand. It's a questionable purchase.

As for Sheema, the problem is her recruitment. It denies several people experience, and these Gra soldiers in their retreat possible slow the team down, as the chapter is rather cramped. In exchange, we get someone who is basically never good. Gradius is fine and all, but Roshe shows up already able to be usable at least in the final throws of the game. He's not fantastic by any means, but he's at least capable. Wyrmslayers as well, something Sheema doesn't have.

Sounds fine to me with Katua.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Other dragonstones are head-explodingly expensive. This game has pretty tight purse strings. 18,000 to buy a stone. About 72,000 gold you get naturally. That's a rather huge chunk taken out of the bill. In fact, that's the first 3 chapter's worth of gold just yanked out of your hand. It's a questionable purchase.

It's funny how you advocated Demon Dragonstone for Chiki in the previous tier list (where it was proven that funds is not an issue for Chiki but rather her offense) and now you're saying it's questionable? Silver Card makes it 9k. Flying and Demon Dragonstone are definitely affordable.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Vergil

[grandjackal]

Other dragonstones are head-explodingly expensive. This game has pretty tight purse strings. 18,000 to buy a stone. About 72,000 gold you get naturally. That's a rather huge chunk taken out of the bill. In fact, that's the first 3 chapter's worth of gold just yanked out of your hand. It's a questionable purchase.

It's funny how you advocated Demon Dragonstone for Chiki in the previous tier list (where it was proven that funds is not an issue for Chiki but rather her offense) and now you're saying it's questionable? Silver Card makes it 9k. Flying and Demon Dragonstone are definitely affordable.

Aaaaaand I forgot about the silver card. *stabs self* As for back then, I was a bigger noob than I am now.

Well, if you can show it's not a huge impact on our funds, or that we don't need a lot of money to get by, I'll rethink my stance. Flying and demon is definitely a nice thought. At least show it for now, because my memory has me drawing a blank on that fact.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Galactica Leader Cyrus

[Dat Nick]

Luke>Cecil. She's better for like one chapter, then her speed win becomes irrelevant and Luke starts stomping her in durability.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Other dragonstones are head-explodingly expensive. This game has pretty tight purse strings. 18,000 to buy a stone. About 72,000 gold you get naturally. That's a rather huge chunk taken out of the bill. In fact, that's the first 3 chapter's worth of gold just yanked out of your hand. It's a questionable purchase.

It's funny how you advocated Demon Dragonstone for Chiki in the previous tier list (where it was proven that funds is not an issue for Chiki but rather her offense) and now you're saying it's questionable? Silver Card makes it 9k. Flying and Demon Dragonstone are definitely affordable.

Aaaaaand I forgot about the silver card. *stabs self* As for back then, I was a bigger noob than I am now.

Well, if you can show it's not a huge impact on our funds, or that we don't need a lot of money to get by, I'll rethink my stance. Flying and demon is definitely a nice thought. At least show it for now, because my memory has me drawing a blank on that fact.

2 Fire Dragonstones obtainable. Sell each for 9k.

It's you who has to show if it really is a huge impact on the funds seeing as how it was agreed on the previous list that it isn't and right now you're claiming that it is with what proof?

Edited October 17, 2009 by Vergil

[grandjackal]

Luke>Cecil. She's better for like one chapter, then her speed win becomes irrelevant and Luke starts stomping her in durability.

Luke gets 3 levels in 1 chapter? And somehow makes up for her bond with Roddy?

His only win over her is HP, while Cecile basically has whatever her bases are over him forever. 1 more speed, 20% more growth. The sooner you get to doubling with lances, the better. 2 levels she has the ability to do so with iron lances (8 base speed, iron lances are 6 weight), Luke won't be doing this for 5 levels. In that time, Cecile could have 11 speed, Steel Lance weight is 8 so she now can double with steel when he has iron.

She has the lead basically forever until he gets the ability to use the same weapons while doubling, and when he has a noticeable HP and Def lead, as he has 40% better HP growth, and 10% more Def.

In fact, she has the starting rank of 7 WLV as opposed to Luke's 5. She can already use the Silver Lance, for 21 Mt. Unlike Arran, she won't double with it, so she has this sort of Jeigen utility as well, since starting axers have 13 mt, which is a 4RKO with her 19 HP and 7 Def.

Then consider that once she gets 2 speed (4 levels), she'll be able to double with it whereas Luke needs 5 levels just to use it (and he won't be doubling with it either).

@Vergil: Seems fine to me, I'd gladly turn in two inferior stones for 2 clearly superior ones.

Very well then, should she rise then?

Edited October 17, 2009 by Galactica Leader Cyrus

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Above Banut seems definite. Probably bottom of Mid.

[grandjackal]

Above Banut seems definite. Probably bottom of Mid.

Sounds good to me, though feel free to make a case against Arran, as I'm not quite convinced she outdoes the important dragon-slaying aspects of earlygame. Basically not quite convinced she's above him, much less into mid, to put it that way.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Above Banut seems definite. Probably bottom of Mid.

Sounds good to me, though feel free to make a case against Arran, as I'm not quite convinced she outdoes the important dragon-slaying aspects of earlygame. Basically not quite convinced she's above him, much less into mid, to put it that way.

Better tank as a Demon Dragon (19 DEF at base and since this list doesn't take into account Orbs...), HUGE chip range (22 ATK base and only Dragons can defend against it, 12 MOV and 1-2 range), as Flying Dragon and a nuclear bomb to anything that has HP equal to or less than her ATK (which is 26 to begin with, 40% growth, effective against lategame Demon Dragons) as a Divine Dragon

What's Alan again?

Edited October 17, 2009 by Vergil

[grandjackal]

Above Banut seems definite. Probably bottom of Mid.

Sounds good to me, though feel free to make a case against Arran, as I'm not quite convinced she outdoes the important dragon-slaying aspects of earlygame. Basically not quite convinced she's above him, much less into mid, to put it that way.

Better tank as a Demon Dragon (19 DEF at base and since this list doesn't take into account Orbs...), HUGE chip range (22 ATK base and only Dragons can defend against it, 12 MOV and 1-2 range), as Flying Dragon and a nuclear bomb to anything that has HP equal to or less than her ATK (which is 26 to begin with, 40% growth) as a Divine Dragon.

What's Alan again?

He's nowhere near that good. 19 def is pretty huge, dragonblasting with the divine, the ability to fly, able to basically switch between them is pretty excellent. Arran's cool at his time, but...He's not exactly necessary for some chapters. Hell, Cecile performs pretty similarly already.

[Blademaster!]

What about other dragon stones?

Use.the.site. It won't kill you.

Katua should be right below Sirius.

I did use the site and couldn't find it somehow. I can't believe I missed that though since I went to that page to see Roshe's stats when he is unmounted to compare them to Sheema.

[grandjackal]

Wait a minute, how the hell did I miss this? Enemy stats are already on the sight. Right here http://www.serenesforest.net/fe3/enemy_data.html

Will be adding this to the original post.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Galactica Leader Cyrus

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Katua up. She is essentially a flying Marth who uses lances and can't use the rapier. Also, she receives a support bonus from him.

Marth has plenty of advantages himself, those being clear rights to the Boots, Rapier, basically giving supports to several people, and the fact he's forced, along with not having a bow weakness.

I don't see how that puts Marth above Katua. She has more MOV than him for a longer period, the WLV to use Silver Lance right away.

Then there's also the Ladysword which is useful at any time there's bandits and the lategame ones aren't 1RKOed by Silver Swords unless you critical.

Wait a minute, how the hell did I miss this? Enemy stats are already on the sight. Right here http://www.serenesfo...enemy_data.html

They were also available in the previous list

Edited October 18, 2009 by Vergil

[grandjackal]

I don't see how that puts Marth above Katua. She has more MOV than him for a longer period, the WLV to use Silver Lance right away (btw, Silver Lance can be purchased starting in C7. Silver Sword won't be in any armory until C11 so she'll have greater ATK for some time.

Then there's also the Ladysword which is useful at any time there's bandits and the lategame ones aren't 1RKOed by Silver Swords unless you critical.

Ok, you have a point there.

Considering Ogma is just Marth witht he ability to promote early, perhaps over him too...as you suggested?

They were also available in the previous list

Yes, I've been failing pretty hard lately x.x

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I don't see how that puts Marth above Katua. She has more MOV than him for a longer period, the WLV to use Silver Lance right away (btw, Silver Lance can be purchased starting in C7. Silver Sword won't be in any armory until C11 so she'll have greater ATK for some time.

Then there's also the Ladysword which is useful at any time there's bandits and the lategame ones aren't 1RKOed by Silver Swords unless you critical.

Ok, you have a point there.

Considering Ogma is just Marth witht he ability to promote early, perhaps over him too...as you suggested?

Yes.

Abel below Ryan... why?

[grandjackal]

I don't see how that puts Marth above Katua. She has more MOV than him for a longer period, the WLV to use Silver Lance right away (btw, Silver Lance can be purchased starting in C7. Silver Sword won't be in any armory until C11 so she'll have greater ATK for some time.

Then there's also the Ladysword which is useful at any time there's bandits and the lategame ones aren't 1RKOed by Silver Swords unless you critical.

Ok, you have a point there.

Considering Ogma is just Marth witht he ability to promote early, perhaps over him too...as you suggested?

Yes.

Abel below Ryan... why?

No idea why now than you put it that way. I just realized how insane his bases are. Hs luck blows, but that's the only complaint. I'd take that over..Ryan...Any day. Just put him there because...Well, no reason other than availability I guess.

Hmmm, seems the site doesn't show what HP bonuses the dragon stones give. If they don't, then the defense isn't gonna mater, since 18 HP is fail. I'm aware that it isn't that, I just can't seem to find how much.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Galactica Leader Cyrus

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Hmmm, seems the site doesn't show what HP bonuses the dragon stones give. If they don't, then the defense isn't gonna mater, since 18 HP is fail. I'm aware that it isn't that, I just can't seem to find how much.

With 19 HP she went up to 38 after transforming to Fire, Divine and Flying. Gave her an HP robe (thus 26 base) and she went up to 52 after transformation. Seems to be her MaxHP x 2.