Ike VS. Marth

[Higgins Von Higgings]

You have a point about counter, I forgot about that when I mentioned his moves with recovery. That's a mistake on my part. I did say his UB though, and his UAir doesn't have much recovery time at all. Trust me, I use it frequently to juggle.

I never said he was slower than the others, I just said he was slow. I even said he wasn't HELLISHLY slow, but slow nonetheless.

Yes, you can get out, but it's not easy, because once you get out of one set of FAirs, Marth can dodge your break out move and slam you some more. It's not that difficult really.

And if you're facing a spammy Pit, you can't just block one and jump over, because coming out of the shield you'll have no time to jump, and I don't recall if you can jump out of your shield anymore.

Doesn't matter about the range, it's easy to block or side step, end of story. It's too slow to guarantee a hit all the time. The only time someone will run head on into it is if they're not good, or they're experiencing some mad input lag.

Quick Draw IS easy to counter, because you can't charge it too long when you're falling to your death to fake out the opponent, otherwise you'll kill yourself. The only way it's impossible to stop them is if you send them to the other side, but that's a given. Most of the time people aim to kill anyway, so they wouldn't hit to the other side unless it randomly happens due to the placement of their attack OR they're toying with their foe and sending them back and forth.

When I say you're pitting someone against a certain character I'm referring to the Kirby comment.

Half the time people DON'T charge smash attacks, that's the thing. They use them right out of the can to link them to combos quickly either as finishers or to get someone into the air to juggle, so that's not really an issue. And normally smashes can be charged long enough to wait out Ike's counter anyways. So he'll either get smashed right away, or they can wait it out and slam him. Marth isn't really an issue for half of that, as his counter goes up in less than half a second, whereas Ike's takes about a full second to go up. And because of Ike's weight, he CAN be juggled more easily as he doesn't go as far as others from most attacks. Ike's got no sweet spot on his sword, so it doesn't matter if he hits with the tip or not. Marth can rush in and hit at a decent distance, smashing with the tip for extra damage and knock back, and his counter is faster compared to Ike's, so Ike really can't attack in the same fashion. Another thing putting down Ike's ability to "strike in the same fashion", his aerials are far too slow to chain together like Marth's can, so Marth can get more hits in before Ike can get one shot out.

I've gotten over Ike's FS. Once the player grabs it, stay as far as you can. The flames can still get you at a certain point, but as soon as the camera shifts in an odd manner, smash UB and you should be over it. Or you can jump and air dodge right away, which is guaranteed to dodge 90% of the time. That's why I've only been hit by an Ike FS using Marth about four times when I'm not against my friend Peter, and I fight A LOT of Ike players. My friend Peter only gets me because he knows how my mind works (he ought to, been friends for 11 years), otherwise I'd only get hit if I was knocked into it by someone else. One on one he can't get me with it.

Also, if Ike gets knocked too far from FD and is level with it, he won't make it under and then up due to the crap ass horizontal distance of Aether. He'll get close, but he'll fall to his death in the end.

Double jump with Marth and Use his Up A, then try to land another blow before you hit the ground, just hitting A alone at best will give you half the hit before he lands (as in he only slashes one side).

When it comes to Pit. Just sheild and Roll to your opponent.. you can roll across the stage no problem... Also you can dunk and walk right to him with most people, if he is spamming he won't be able to direct the arrows well.

If we are talking about Blocking and sidesteping, it's just the same with Marth or any other character, but most people tend to try and Jump so they can land a quick hit, and that's where Ike gets them.

I have never fallen to my Death as Ike (well that's not true, more of I haven't because Quick Draw failed), nore have I seen someone. I request a match in a few days and if you can cancel out every one of my quick Draws that are close to your side, I'll give you that.

No, you really can't get over his FS. If you hit Marth's or someone's B up BEFORE he launches it, yah sure. But if he launches it whiel your infront of him, you lose, because he does the slash BEFORE the camera zoms in.

Almost anyone knocked Eye level with the stage and far away are not able to get back up. And it's pretty hard to get someone far and eye level..

Serene: I'm not using my regular net browser, Fire fox, so I can't detect my spelling errors as much as usually, and I don't use Word because THis keyboard never seems to pick up CTR+C and I end up erasing my post by hitting CTR+V.

[Serene]

alright then Copain, that's understandable

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Honestly, WTF is wrong with you guys? This is NOT up for debates. Weren't you guys listening to me at all? This debate ain't getting us no where number one. And number two, you guys aren't helping. While you guys continue ripping yourselves up with your long BORING post of failures how about I'll just sit on my cpu chair and laugh at how ridiculous you guys are trying to prove. >_<

Plus, you guys have any idea how much room you took up from you post of fails?

[Serene]

Honestly, WTF is wrong with you guys? This is NOT up for debates. Weren't you guys listening to me at all? This debate ain't getting us no where number one. And number two, you guys aren't helping. While you guys continue ripping yourselves up with your long BORING post of failures how about I'll just sit on my cpu chair and laugh at how ridiculous you guys are trying to prove. >_<

Plus, you guys have any idea how much room you took up from you post of fails?

A Logic, this technically counts as a fail. You are ranting about ranting right now. I don't even think that is a good idea.

Don't get me wrong I believe in what you're saying here. Ask a mod or something to move this

[Higgins Von Higgings]

If you don't like it, ignore the post. This topic is ABOUT who's better. And thus what the faults of each are. IT's not about you posting one word and leaving the topic for good. That's foolish.

I find your post contains much more fail since you don't get this.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

This topic is about who's better by opinions. You guys talk as if Ike is without a doubt better or Marth is without a doubt better or what ever. This debate is a joke. I'm obviously not going to read it because I have much better things to do unlike you guys who spent your time making long posts.

[Higgins Von Higgings]

And these are OUR thoughts on the characters, and what WE think about the moves. I know this might be hard for you to understand, but people at times can think they know something, and say it as if that's how it is, it's human Nature.

Also it's funny how your saying you have better things to do then read our post or argue, yet here you are saying we fail and responding to my post, it seems you care quite a bit.

[Serene]

Copain, don't start anything

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

This debate ain't proving anything at all. So theres no way that can be convince. What are you trying to prove in this debate?

I still have things to do, its just that you guys constantly talking to me. >_<

[Higgins Von Higgings]

Actualy we HAVE agree'd on points and such, meaning we are both learning things. We are trying to see who is better... as I said that's the topic's subject.

Sorry, I'm just responding to the post you make..if you truly have something beter, then just leave the topic..?

[Zanryu]

Double jump with Marth and Use his Up A, then try to land another blow before you hit the ground, just hitting A alone at best will give you half the hit before he lands (as in he only slashes one side).

When it comes to Pit. Just sheild and Roll to your opponent.. you can roll across the stage no problem... Also you can dunk and walk right to him with most people, if he is spamming he won't be able to direct the arrows well.

If we are talking about Blocking and sidesteping, it's just the same with Marth or any other character, but most people tend to try and Jump so they can land a quick hit, and that's where Ike gets them.

I have never fallen to my Death as Ike (well that's not true, more of I haven't because Quick Draw failed), nore have I seen someone. I request a match in a few days and if you can cancel out every one of my quick Draws that are close to your side, I'll give you that.

No, you really can't get over his FS. If you hit Marth's or someone's B up BEFORE he launches it, yah sure. But if he launches it whiel your infront of him, you lose, because he does the slash BEFORE the camera zoms in.

Almost anyone knocked Eye level with the stage and far away are not able to get back up. And it's pretty hard to get someone far and eye level.

It depends how high you jump for that, really. I've gotten the full NAir out and his UA in the same jump, so yeah.

When you roll you can't roll right away again, so you'll roll, get hit, roll, get hit, roll get hit, etc. Sure you'll make it eventually, but if you keep getting smacked around while moving in, once you get close they'll smack you and run, or hit you with a smash and spam again.

Even when jumping it isn't hard to dodge his FSmash, ESPECIALLY if he's charging it up. Then you know to air dodge past him and smack him with the tip of your sword from behind, thus keeping distance to avoid harm AND doing maximum damage.

I would accept this, but I'm not going to be playing Brawl in the slightest this week (gotta pack for vacation, and I take years to pack), AND I get some serious lag more than half the time, so you'll be back on the stage before my game can adjust to you being OFF the stage. If you lived near me and we could play offline, I would be able to stop all of your quick draws near by, just some I'd pass up because if high percentage risks (I'm a more defensive player when I'm at high percentages, I wouldn't risk getting sent off the top of the stage trying to stop your recovery).

The camera doesn't zoom in all the way, but it still zooms. It'll shift ever so slightly towards the Ike, then you GTFO.

Sure it may be difficult, but if you're too far to get back without a charge, you'll start charging, and if it's not full yet and you're level, you're done.

[Higgins Von Higgings]

It depends how high you jump for that, really. I've gotten the full NAir out and his UA in the same jump, so yeah.

When you roll you can't roll right away again, so you'll roll, get hit, roll, get hit, roll get hit, etc. Sure you'll make it eventually, but if you keep getting smacked around while moving in, once you get close they'll smack you and run, or hit you with a smash and spam again.

Even when jumping it isn't hard to dodge his FSmash, ESPECIALLY if he's charging it up. Then you know to air dodge past him and smack him with the tip of your sword from behind, thus keeping distance to avoid harm AND doing maximum damage.

I would accept this, but I'm not going to be playing Brawl in the slightest this week (gotta pack for vacation, and I take years to pack), AND I get some serious lag more than half the time, so you'll be back on the stage before my game can adjust to you being OFF the stage. If you lived near me and we could play offline, I would be able to stop all of your quick draws near by, just some I'd pass up because if high percentage risks (I'm a more defensive player when I'm at high percentages, I wouldn't risk getting sent off the top of the stage trying to stop your recovery).

The camera doesn't zoom in all the way, but it still zooms. It'll shift ever so slightly towards the Ike, then you GTFO.

Sure it may be difficult, but if you're too far to get back without a charge, you'll start charging, and if it's not full yet and you're level, you're done.

...N air?

DurinG the Roll time you are invulnerable, and the time when you go back to normal (Which isn't even a split secoend) you have your sheild up, and if Pit is spamming it you're more likely to avoid it during the dodge.

ANY attack is dodgeable and stuff if you can time it exactly like your saying, but you can't all the time, and when Ike hits you'll hate it more than when Marth smash hits you.

>_>.. We see the same thing, it's always the same for both people. If that was the case then you'd be in the game after if finished which can't happen.

The attack swings faster than you can react just juding by the zoom in (Considering it isn't Zoom then attack, It's during, and instant), and even if you use Marth's UP B you can still get owned since it isn't like an instant teleport, it's him going all the way up, and he won't get all the way out of the way of someone launching a giant range instant FS.

Edited June 16, 2008 by Copain