Socialism is superior

[BK-201]

It demonstrates your inability to win a fair fight, something which, if you had payed attention to this discussion and your own Pokemon's hearts and minds, Pokemon clearly respect. Pokemon themselves work in levels, it only makes sense they would wish for you to do something similar.

Besides, cheating is cheating. How would YOU appreciate someone maliciously raping your laws of reality?

If they were able to, I would believe they were god. If someone was able to manipulate the laws of reality I would have respect.

Pokemon can be corrupt and evil. You can't generalize all pokemon like that, saying they don't use shortcuts.

Clearly some Pokemon are evil. I am just demonstrating how Pokemon fight with their own will.

Regardless, cheating is, according to the game, impossible, and thus non canon. It requires an external and unintended device and it should be discounted.

Not all pokemon fight of their own will. Just look at the numerous gadgets that exsist to enslave them.

Except there is no evidence to suggest that.

No evidence?! Just look. Team Rocket. Team Aqua. Team Magma. Team Galactic. Just look at those and what they've done. They forced pokemon to fight, of course there is evidence.

They're also all criminals. In addition, they are never demonstrated to actually force Pokemon to fight.

Team Galactic fashioned the Red Chain(?) to capture Palkia/Dialga.

I do not recall this happening in my Sinnoh adventures, but perhaps I am mistaken. Extrapolate.

They capture Azelf, Uxie, and Mespirit in an attempt to create the Red Chain to capture the pokemon that lies in spear pillar.

I must have been asleep.

Anyway, again, that is incredibly difficult, requires OTHER Pokemon, and then can only capture, not control the Pokemon.

Plus, again, they are CRIMINALS!

It forces them into obedience. It's obvious the pokemon government is defunct as they aren't even aware of what is happening and leave everything to a professor of a village.

How do you know the Government is not moving against them? Clearly you and the professor alone could not single handedly defeat all of Team Galactic. Unless the Professor really is a secret undercover Government Agent.

The galactic goons are so dumb that it only takes 3 competent people to undermine the whole organization.

Well then, clearly at least one of you is working for the Government.

Nope. The government comes AFTER you defeat things.

I have to go soon.....

[Defeatist Elitist]

It demonstrates your inability to win a fair fight, something which, if you had payed attention to this discussion and your own Pokemon's hearts and minds, Pokemon clearly respect. Pokemon themselves work in levels, it only makes sense they would wish for you to do something similar.

Besides, cheating is cheating. How would YOU appreciate someone maliciously raping your laws of reality?

If they were able to, I would believe they were god. If someone was able to manipulate the laws of reality I would have respect.

Pokemon can be corrupt and evil. You can't generalize all pokemon like that, saying they don't use shortcuts.

Clearly some Pokemon are evil. I am just demonstrating how Pokemon fight with their own will.

Regardless, cheating is, according to the game, impossible, and thus non canon. It requires an external and unintended device and it should be discounted.

Not all pokemon fight of their own will. Just look at the numerous gadgets that exsist to enslave them.

Except there is no evidence to suggest that.

No evidence?! Just look. Team Rocket. Team Aqua. Team Magma. Team Galactic. Just look at those and what they've done. They forced pokemon to fight, of course there is evidence.

They're also all criminals. In addition, they are never demonstrated to actually force Pokemon to fight.

Team Galactic fashioned the Red Chain(?) to capture Palkia/Dialga.

I do not recall this happening in my Sinnoh adventures, but perhaps I am mistaken. Extrapolate.

They capture Azelf, Uxie, and Mespirit in an attempt to create the Red Chain to capture the pokemon that lies in spear pillar.

I must have been asleep.

Anyway, again, that is incredibly difficult, requires OTHER Pokemon, and then can only capture, not control the Pokemon.

Plus, again, they are CRIMINALS!

It forces them into obedience. It's obvious the pokemon government is defunct as they aren't even aware of what is happening and leave everything to a professor of a village.

How do you know the Government is not moving against them? Clearly you and the professor alone could not single handedly defeat all of Team Galactic. Unless the Professor really is a secret undercover Government Agent.

The galactic goons are so dumb that it only takes 3 competent people to undermine the whole organization.

Well then, clearly at least one of you is working for the Government.

Nope. The government comes AFTER you defeat things.

I have to go soon.....

Why did none of this happen to me?

[BK-201]

It demonstrates your inability to win a fair fight, something which, if you had payed attention to this discussion and your own Pokemon's hearts and minds, Pokemon clearly respect. Pokemon themselves work in levels, it only makes sense they would wish for you to do something similar.

Besides, cheating is cheating. How would YOU appreciate someone maliciously raping your laws of reality?

If they were able to, I would believe they were god. If someone was able to manipulate the laws of reality I would have respect.

Pokemon can be corrupt and evil. You can't generalize all pokemon like that, saying they don't use shortcuts.

Clearly some Pokemon are evil. I am just demonstrating how Pokemon fight with their own will.

Regardless, cheating is, according to the game, impossible, and thus non canon. It requires an external and unintended device and it should be discounted.

Not all pokemon fight of their own will. Just look at the numerous gadgets that exsist to enslave them.

Except there is no evidence to suggest that.

No evidence?! Just look. Team Rocket. Team Aqua. Team Magma. Team Galactic. Just look at those and what they've done. They forced pokemon to fight, of course there is evidence.

They're also all criminals. In addition, they are never demonstrated to actually force Pokemon to fight.

Team Galactic fashioned the Red Chain(?) to capture Palkia/Dialga.

I do not recall this happening in my Sinnoh adventures, but perhaps I am mistaken. Extrapolate.

They capture Azelf, Uxie, and Mespirit in an attempt to create the Red Chain to capture the pokemon that lies in spear pillar.

I must have been asleep.

Anyway, again, that is incredibly difficult, requires OTHER Pokemon, and then can only capture, not control the Pokemon.

Plus, again, they are CRIMINALS!

It forces them into obedience. It's obvious the pokemon government is defunct as they aren't even aware of what is happening and leave everything to a professor of a village.

How do you know the Government is not moving against them? Clearly you and the professor alone could not single handedly defeat all of Team Galactic. Unless the Professor really is a secret undercover Government Agent.

The galactic goons are so dumb that it only takes 3 competent people to undermine the whole organization.

Well then, clearly at least one of you is working for the Government.

Nope. The government comes AFTER you defeat things.

I have to go soon.....

Why did none of this happen to me?

You were sleeping.

[Defeatist Elitist]

It demonstrates your inability to win a fair fight, something which, if you had payed attention to this discussion and your own Pokemon's hearts and minds, Pokemon clearly respect. Pokemon themselves work in levels, it only makes sense they would wish for you to do something similar.

Besides, cheating is cheating. How would YOU appreciate someone maliciously raping your laws of reality?

If they were able to, I would believe they were god. If someone was able to manipulate the laws of reality I would have respect.

Pokemon can be corrupt and evil. You can't generalize all pokemon like that, saying they don't use shortcuts.

Clearly some Pokemon are evil. I am just demonstrating how Pokemon fight with their own will.

Regardless, cheating is, according to the game, impossible, and thus non canon. It requires an external and unintended device and it should be discounted.

Not all pokemon fight of their own will. Just look at the numerous gadgets that exsist to enslave them.

Except there is no evidence to suggest that.

No evidence?! Just look. Team Rocket. Team Aqua. Team Magma. Team Galactic. Just look at those and what they've done. They forced pokemon to fight, of course there is evidence.

They're also all criminals. In addition, they are never demonstrated to actually force Pokemon to fight.

Team Galactic fashioned the Red Chain(?) to capture Palkia/Dialga.

I do not recall this happening in my Sinnoh adventures, but perhaps I am mistaken. Extrapolate.

They capture Azelf, Uxie, and Mespirit in an attempt to create the Red Chain to capture the pokemon that lies in spear pillar.

I must have been asleep.

Anyway, again, that is incredibly difficult, requires OTHER Pokemon, and then can only capture, not control the Pokemon.

Plus, again, they are CRIMINALS!

It forces them into obedience. It's obvious the pokemon government is defunct as they aren't even aware of what is happening and leave everything to a professor of a village.

How do you know the Government is not moving against them? Clearly you and the professor alone could not single handedly defeat all of Team Galactic. Unless the Professor really is a secret undercover Government Agent.

The galactic goons are so dumb that it only takes 3 competent people to undermine the whole organization.

Well then, clearly at least one of you is working for the Government.

Nope. The government comes AFTER you defeat things.

I have to go soon.....

Why did none of this happen to me?

You were sleeping.

Must have been the drugs.

[Altera the Hun]

...How ironic...

First. Goddamn. Post.

You people aren't particularly quick in the head, are you?

Points 1 and 6 are currently contradictory, mate. Thus, Irony.

I fail to see how these points are contradictory, considering you are clearly not a socialist, and the world of Pokemon clearly follows socialist tenets. Unless you would like to admit you have finally seen the light and stopped being such a pox on all working people everywhere, and have finally joined the ranks of Socialism?

It isn't a socialist society. People are forced to attack others with animals for money and the animals aren't paid for their work even though they obviously have enough intellect. Instead it goes to the masters who treat them like slaves.

What the fuck are you talking about? How is that relevant. Regardless, no one is forced to attack anyone, it is mainly done for recreational or enjoyment purposes, and the Pokemon themselves seem to enjoy it. In addition, the Pokemon seem to have no need for money.

You will also note that none of the money expended is used for essentials of living, further cementing the idea that their society is a Socialist one.

Yet somehow I manage to see the words "If you look at someone you have to challenge them". Of course the pokemon enjoy getting the crap beat out of them.

It is not a legal restriction, merely a Trainer's Code of Honor. There are few recreational circumstances where a battle is not enjoyable for the participants. The Pokemon do indeed enjoy getting the crap beaten out of them, as can be observed by their happiness increasing when they are used in battle and show attention by you.

That happens when they win, it goes down when they faint. Also, pokemon are treated as slaves and the heads(gym leaders and champions) leave it to the trainers showing up right after the battle. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Well, clearly their happiness goes down when you lose. You can see this in sports events throughout the world. Would you proclaim that all sports players are somehow slaves?

Pokemon never attempt to rebel in force, only against certain specific trainers, and only then because those trainers do not have sufficient skill to gain the respect of the Pokemon. Clearly if they were intelligent as you proclaim, and felt they were enslaved by humanity, they would have little difficulty.

Let's be honest, how can you possibly believe that defenseless 12 year old children are managing to force massive, dangerous, creatures to do their bidding against their will?

The Badges, actually. According to the Manga at any rate, the Badges allow you to control more powerful Pokemon as you collect them. No, no one bothers explaining how they work.

Also, wasting Potions on fully-healed Pokemon will make them ADORE you. Frivoulus spending on such things seems more capitalist to me.

The badges earn you the respect of the Pokemon and prove you have the necessary skills as clearly stated in the games, which are most definitely the greatest canon source.

In addition, frivolous spending does not make a society Capitalist. As I have stated many times, the fact that essentials of living are provided free of charge should be proof enough of a Socialist society.

If a pokemon was like you said earlier, unintelligent, then the need to earn their respect would not exist.

I never claimed they were unintelligent, I claimed they liked humans. I was not contesting the intelligence point.

Which explains why many pokemon(ie. Ghost) haunt people until captured.

Never mind several Legendaries, beginning with Mewtwo, attempted exterminating humanity.

Except that is in the shitty ass Pokemon movies which are incredibly unrealistic and clearly not Canon to the games world.

Deoxys attempts it in the games, which IS Canon.

[uguu]

Deoxys is an alien

[Altera the Hun]

Deoxys is an alien

So are Cleffy, Clefairy, and Clefable. Your point?

[uguu]

It's an alien that recently arrived on the planet. Of course it would be confused about how shit works. And besides, after catching it it doesn't try to kill you

[Altera the Hun]

It's an alien that recently arrived on the planet. Of course it would be confused about how shit works. And besides, after catching it it doesn't try to kill you

Heel Face turns are common in Pokemon. The Elite Four (Well, Lance and Bruno. Agatha is an unrepentant bitch.) and most versions of Sabrina are some of the most well-known examples.

[Original Alear]

Heyhey, READ THE FIRST POST AND COUNTER THOSE POINTS. Otherwise nobody is going to take you seriously!

Why would I counter those points? Those are absolutely 100% correct. I am simply dismissing other flawed arguments which are either inessential, contingent or damaging to socialism's superiority.

Those drinks are drinks from vending machines, and are only occasionally seen consumed by human beings, and then more as a delicacy or privilege than a necessity.

A true socialist society does not allow privileges. The world is imperfect; another revolution must occur.

Do you not outgrow teachings? In addition, it is not difficult to train a Pokemon. One can simply defeat low leveled and weak Pokemon over and over again. It does not demonstrate skill.

WATCH THIS. It's called cutting off the quote pyramid.

No, it's called capitalist censorship.

It demonstrates your inability to win a fair fight, something which, if you had payed attention to this discussion and your own Pokemon's hearts and minds, Pokemon clearly respect. Pokemon themselves work in levels, it only makes sense they would wish for you to do something similar.

Besides, cheating is cheating. How would YOU appreciate someone maliciously raping your laws of reality?

If they were able to, I would believe they were god. If someone was able to manipulate the laws of reality I would have respect.

Pokemon can be corrupt and evil. You can't generalize all pokemon like that, saying they don't use shortcuts.

Clearly some Pokemon are evil. I am just demonstrating how Pokemon fight with their own will.

Regardless, cheating is, according to the game, impossible, and thus non canon. It requires an external and unintended device and it should be discounted.

Not all pokemon fight of their own will. Just look at the numerous gadgets that exsist to enslave them.

Except there is no evidence to suggest that.

No evidence?! Just look. Team Rocket. Team Aqua. Team Magma. Team Galactic. Just look at those and what they've done. They forced pokemon to fight, of course there is evidence.

They're also all criminals. In addition, they are never demonstrated to actually force Pokemon to fight.

Team Galactic fashioned the Red Chain(?) to capture Palkia/Dialga.

I do not recall this happening in my Sinnoh adventures, but perhaps I am mistaken. Extrapolate.

They capture Azelf, Uxie, and Mespirit in an attempt to create the Red Chain to capture the pokemon that lies in spear pillar.

I must have been asleep.

Anyway, again, that is incredibly difficult, requires OTHER Pokemon, and then can only capture, not control the Pokemon.

Plus, again, they are CRIMINALS!

It forces them into obedience. It's obvious the pokemon government is defunct as they aren't even aware of what is happening and leave everything to a professor of a village.

How do you know the Government is not moving against them? Clearly you and the professor alone could not single handedly defeat all of Team Galactic. Unless the Professor really is a secret undercover Government Agent.

The galactic goons are so dumb that it only takes 3 competent people to undermine the whole organization.

Well then, clearly at least one of you is working for the Government.

Nope. The government comes AFTER you defeat things.

I have to go soon.....

"There are four boys walking on some train tracks, guess I better get going."

Also, Cynthia comes to help in poke plat, and as far as I can tell poke league = govt.

[Hero]

A true socialist society does not allow privileges. The world [of Pokemon] is imperfect; another revolution must occur.

Really? I never knew that, you might be on to something. Say, you should write a book about this. You might be the next person to revolutionize the concept of socialism. Just think about it, they'll be putting your head on banners next to Marx, Engels and Lenin!

"There are four boys walking on some train tracks, guess I better get going."

Also, Cynthia comes to help in poke plat, and as far as I can tell poke league = govt.

I always thought what we saw in the world of Pokemon was the absence of government, according to Marx the natural ultimate result of good socialist government. As far as we can tell, all the services in that world are owned and operated communally, with a few exceptions that seem to go against the grain in general.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Hero

[Parrhesia]

Some ad I just saw floating above FFtF.

Sarah for 2012?

Now that's comedy.

[Mousefire]

Some ad I just saw floating above FFtF.

Sarah for 2012?

Now that's comedy.

[Altera the Hun]

A true socialist society does not allow privileges. The world [of Pokemon] is imperfect; another revolution must occur.

Really? I never knew that, you might be on to something. Say, you should write a book about this. You might be the next person to revolutionize the concept of socialism. Just think about it, they'll be putting your head on banners next to Marx, Engels and Lenin!

"There are four boys walking on some train tracks, guess I better get going."

Also, Cynthia comes to help in poke plat, and as far as I can tell poke league = govt.

I always thought what we saw in the world of Pokemon was the absence of government, according to Marx the natural ultimate result of good socialist government. As far as we can tell, all the services in that world are owned and operated communally, with a few exceptions that seem to go against the grain in general.

The Elite Four are the governing body of Kanto and Johto. Thing is, they don't care about anyone not a Pokemon, so they tend to ignore most of Team Rocket's crap. Apparently by G/S/C Lance heard about the Pokemon in Lavender's Pokemon tower and finally went after Rocket, but other than that and Cynthia's involvment in one of the later generations, that's about all the Government intervention you'll get.

Speaking of the Elite Four, since when did a communist/socialist society have an Elite?

[Original Alear]

A true socialist society does not allow privileges. The world [of Pokemon] is imperfect; another revolution must occur.

Really? I never knew that, you might be on to something. Say, you should write a book about this. You might be the next person to revolutionize the concept of socialism. Just think about it, they'll be putting your head on banners next to Marx, Engels and Lenin!

My face is not so simplistic that it can be depicted on a banner, or visualized by the eyes of a lowly human.

"There are four boys walking on some train tracks, guess I better get going."

Also, Cynthia comes to help in poke plat, and as far as I can tell poke league = govt.

I always thought what we saw in the world of Pokemon was the absence of government, according to Marx the natural ultimate result of good socialist government. As far as we can tell, all the services in that world are owned and operated communally, with a few exceptions that seem to go against the grain in general.

I'm not sure. Isn't the presence of Nurse Joy (cloned nurses trained and then placed in all pokemon centers) the signs of some centralized authority that controls all pokemon centers? Same w/ the cloned officer jenny corps which police the state.

[uguu]

Since when was the elite four the government

[James Bond]

Liberalism FTW!!!

[uguu]

Hey look Soul has an alt

[James Bond]

Soul is for liberalism too?:o

Way to go!!!B)

[uguu]

No, I mean he bumps old threads for the hell of it and it's stupid and irritating, very much like you

[James Bond]

looks like you don't mind to respond...

Edited February 27, 2010 by Sask

[CrashGordon94]

Sask, pay Hika no mind, he's just a troll.

[Altera the Hun]

The Elite Four are the governing body of Kanto and Johto. Thing is, they don't care about anyone not a Pokemon, so they tend to ignore most of Team Rocket's crap. Apparently by G/S/C Lance heard about the Pokemon in Lavender's Pokemon tower and finally went after Rocket, but other than that and Cynthia's involvment in one of the later generations, that's about all the Government intervention you'll get.

Speaking of the Elite Four, since when did a communist/socialist society have an Elite?

Reposting since Sask kinda revived the topic.

[bunny: spider bitten]

Actually, more recent games(Heart Gold, Soul Silver) would suggest that Gym Leaders are asked to tone down their teams based on the most likely order of badges obtained. I mean, you can get a rematch with some of these gym Leaders whose teams make absolutely ridiculous improvements.

Look at Bugsy's team. Then there's Koga's random upgrade in 6 years, Gary's/Blue's technical downgrade, Agatha's death(more than likely, lol), random addition Will, Faulkner sucking, and so on.

They probably have meetings to determine who they'd like to have where, with all the gym leaders having the chance to be anywhere.

[Altera the Hun]

Actually, more recent games(Heart Gold, Soul Silver) would suggest that Gym Leaders are asked to tone down their teams based on the most likely order of badges obtained. I mean, you can get a rematch with some of these gym Leaders whose teams make absolutely ridiculous improvements.

Look at Bugsy's team. Then there's Koga's random upgrade in 6 years, Gary's/Blue's technical downgrade, Agatha's death(more than likely, lol), random addition Will, Faulkner sucking, and so on.

They probably have meetings to determine who they'd like to have where, with all the gym leaders having the chance to be anywhere.

It's actually implied in both versions that Agatha did croak. :/

That said, Brock is still a shitty trainer. Ha, only two Pokemon. I don't think he even ends up getting more when you fight him again.

Koga joined the Elite Four after Lance and Lorelei left and Agatha croaked. Koga, Karen, and Will replaced them on the Elite 4, although Lance takes over as the Champion since Red, the CURRENT Champion, is technically MIA (He's screwing around in/on Mount Silver). Green/Blue took Giovanni's place after he left because it's a more permanent occupation while being Champion, while more prestigious, is harder to keep. And since he actually lost the tile to Red (Who had it Hijacked by Lance), he kinda more like lost his job and found a new one.

Technically, Green and Giovanni are supposed to be first, but Giovanni is rarely at his Gym and... I don't know why Green is such a pain in the ass to get to. :/

Also, Gary isn't Green, like Ash isn't Red. He'd be considered more of a Captain Ersatz to the Green from the games. And he's called Green because his eyes are Green (At least in Special, where the Name Change makes no fucking sense), rather than that's the other game in the pair (America Blue is actually Japan's Green, thus the change of his name in the English release of R/B/Y his name was changed to Blue- The lack of a US Green title. This way they could explain why Blue/Leaf is "Green" in the manga: Green Version doesn't exist in America).

...And I just ranted on the Name Changing again. Damnit.