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Inui vs CATS


Inui

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Both of these units are adorable youngsters with blue hair. How typical of something made in Japan! Thany is a Pegasus Knight working for Dieck. Oujay is an Ostian Mercenary under the command of Barth. Oujay is the best unit in his merry little group by far. Thany is vastly outdone by Dieck and outdone by Lott. I guess she can be better than Ward maybe? Either way, she stands out as eh in her group while Oujay's the best.

Thany vs Fighter when she joins:

4x2 Dmg w/ 6 Crit and 68 Hit to its 28 HP

12 Dmg w/ 0 Crit and 59 Hit to her 17 HP

Uh...

A level 1 Loldier with a Javelin does 6 Dmg and has 31 Hit and she does 8x2 to its 27 HP. I guess she's okay against that one enemy! The level 3 Loldiers with Javelins are a tad more threatening. If she wants to counter the scr00b one, it gets to have 45 Hit on her. The Iron Lance Loldier does 9 Dmg with 48 Hit. The Steel Axe Fighter kills her in almost one hit. The Archers do kill her in one hit and have 66-68 Hit. She can't get bonuses from the forts like the other d00ds with her. She can't damage the boss at all.

That is horrible performance.

"BUT FLYING!"

That hardly matters due to many things:

-Bow users all one-shot her, making her mobility limited anyways.

-The Tactics rank is lenient enough to make flying utility not needed at all to get a perfect score. It's so lenient she doesn't even need to shave turns off to make up for anything later.

-She can't do much with that flying in the first place since she has poor durability and offense.

Do things get better for her? Nah, not really. Not for a while, anyways. The majority of enemies use axes all the way up to Chapter 13. Lol. She has WTDA and horrendous durability for that long. The amount of enemies that have axes or bows is rather large, meaning she can't do much at all. Supports can't give her much due to her horrible affinity. Dieck does NOT want her and her awful affinity when he can rape with Clarine, Lott, and Rutger's awesome bonuses. Even with supports, she can add only small amounts of durability at a time. Her Spd and Lck are great, but not for a while, and with WTDA and being weighed down and having no HP/Def to back up her Evd, her durability is always bad or questionable.

So she goes through a period of suck and having a few uses that don't matter much.

Then Oujay joins. Yeah, he ain't too strong when he joins, but at least his situation isn't as shitty as Thany's. He gets to feast upon axe users in 8x, 9, 10, 11, and 12. Oujay comes with an Armourslayer to wtfrape Knights when he joins and he doubles Loldiers.

HP: 24 (85%)

Str: 7 (40%)

Skl: 10 (30%)

Spd: 9 (45%)

Lck: 6 (55%)

Def: 4 (20%)

Res: 0 (15%)

Offensively, it's obvious he'll be a beast. His Skl growth isn't that good, but he has a nice base, swords, and then he gets +1 when he promotes. His Str is perfectly fine, especially since he gets fast enough to not care about being weighed down to use heavier things and he gets axes. His Spd is really good. His HP is downright incredible; it comes very close to capping. He gets a huge +4 Def when he promotes. His Lck growth is crazy.

Basically, it's clear this kid has some potential use. His offense is going to become good. His durability is going to get good based on huge HP and Evd and good Def after promotion. Hero = best class in terms of raw combat power. Unlike Thany, it's not hard to raise him up. He joins right before he can gain easy EXP raping axe users. They have horrible Hit on him and he doubles the weighed down ones easily and then all of them pretty soon.

For the Experience rank, he's awesome. He gains way more EXP than other units when he joins. More than Thany when she first joins, I'd wager.

After Oujay gets to pwn axe users and be awesome and Thany gets to run away from big ugly brutes that want to rape her little girl corpse after killing her, you get to pwn Narshen and his troops, and then move on to bigger and greater things. Like an outright invasion of either Sacae or Bern. In Sacae, Thany is instantly shit. The Nomads, and especially Nomad Troopers, destroy her. They do incredible damage and she can't double them sometimes despite her insane Spd. Delphi Sheild? She has to share that with Tate and Miledy. Even if she gets it 1/3 of the time, she's limited and horrible 2/3 of the time. Oujay doesn't care much about Nomads. They can't double him when he's using a Hand Axe and he gets to counter them. He has enough HP, Def, and Evd to not be in real danger of dying. Nomads have like 18-19 Atk or some shit, and he has 46 HP and 12 Def at 20/5. He needs to be hit 7-8 times in order to die and the enemies don't have amazing Hit on him at all. But, since we're using Thany (and probably Tate I guess), then we're probably going to Ilia most of the time these units are in play.

Thankfully, Oujay is a monster in Ilia. He rapes the weighed down Pegs with his axes and laughs at their nearly 0 Hit on him. It's 0 when he's on a forest. Javelin and Steel Lance ones have around single-digit hit on his 62.45 Evd with WTA and a Hand Axe killing his Spd by 3 vs their 55 Hit weapons. If they hit, his big HP and passable Def make him not care much. He's not in danger of dying. In terms of offense, he counters everything with a Hand Axe and has WTA while doing so and decent Hit in general, so he's not missing much. He's certainly doing much better than the axeless Thany and her loltastic Str.

In terms of supports, Oujay is clearly much worse off, but he also needs them much less due to his concrete stats being so much better. Oujay can build a slow one with Lalum eventually but his other options are the shitty Ostian units he comes with and Lilina, and we're using enough mediocre units already with Oujay and Thany in play. Thany can have Lott and Tate, although there use is also questionable. We need some good units to complete this game and get perfect ranks. We need room for those d00ds, so I don't know if we have room for Oujay, Thany, Tate, and Lott.

INEVITABLE CHAPTER 21 COMPARISON!!!:

20/8 Oujay

HP: 48.4

Str: 18.6

Skl: 18.2

Spd: 21.7

Lck: 19.2

Def: 12.8

Res: 5.6

C Lalum: +2 Hit, +5 Crit, +2 Evd, +5 Crit Evd

20/9 Thany

HP: 35.15

Str: 14.1

Skl: 22.85

Spd: 26.8

Lck: 21.2

Def: 10.7

Res: 13.75

A Lott/B Tate: +4 Atk, +17 Hit, +12 Crit, +12 Evd, +2 Def/Res, +25 Crit Evd

Offense: Even with all of her support bonuses in play, Oujay has 1.5 more Atk due to axes and then 2.5 vs all of those plentiful lance users. One critical and then another hit with a Killer Axe kills a 47 HP/17 Def Wyvern and one critical kills all of the bow and magic users. He OHKOs the Knights with a Hammer

(and almost does it with an Armourslayer) and the Paladins and Cavaliers with a Halberd, but he doesn't have a monopoly on those weapons at all. Let's just slap two Killer Axes, a Hand Axe, a Killing Edge, and an Armourslayer on him and call it a day. He owns the horsey units the same way he owns the Wyverns except they have way less Def so one critical can seal the deal easily without an additional hit being needed. Thany can get more Atk Spd, but the amount of enemies she doubles and he doesn't is literally 0, so who cares? The fastest enemy on the map has 16 Spd, and it's a Silver Lance Wyvern Lord, and the others have 15 Spd anyways, and Thany needs to stay the hell away from those because they can do way too much damage and they laugh at her Atk. Oujay's a baller with Killer Axes and good HP, so he'll just rape them. That same Wyvern that Oujay needs one critical and a hit to kill? Thany needs a double critical. Thany's critical doesn't instantly kill the Archers. Armourslayer Oujay = dead Murdock. If Thany's supporters aren't near her, which is very likely due to her Mov gap with Lott and Tate wanting to stick with her A a lot, which is probably Klein, Oujay is thrashing her mercilessly in offense instead of just normally.

Durability: Thany is one-shotted by the Aircalibur Sage without her supports, lol. The Archers also do very nice damage to her. Anyways, she can avoid those, but their existence hurts her mobility a bit. Both of them laugh at the Wyverns as they lolmiss almost every time, but Oujay's offense against them is significantly better. He can counter the Javelin ones with a Hand Axe and has a 2.5 Atk lead while doing so. Thany doesn't really get hit by the Steel Lance/Javelin guys, but neither does anyone else really, so who cares? A Silver Lance Wyvern Lord has around 26 Hit on her when she's using a Killer Lance. Thany will take 26 Damage in one hit to her 35 HP. These defensive parameters are with all of her supports. The same d00d has about 34 Hit on Oujay and does 25 Dmg to his 48 HP. Oujay can eat the hit and not care. Why? Everything else those guys have with them uses shitty weapons. They have about 18 Hit on Oujay and the Steel Lance ones do 17 Dmg, which still fails to kill them. If Thany is hit by the Silver Lance d00d, she can be sneezed on and die. If her supporters aren't with her, she's very much screwed, as she loses 12 Evd and 2 Def. The Killer Lance ones have about 28 Hit on her and will kill her. Without her supports, the 89 Hit Wyverns have about 22 Hit on her and still don't have 0 when she's supported. Oujay can actually eat that hit without dying, anyways. So, yeah, Oujay is stomping her in durability even without supports while she has them all.

Thany:

-Ass when she joins.

-Never has good offense due to horrendous Str and not getting h4x axes.

-Very bad concrete durability and Evd not even good enough to shoot the hit of the lowest Hit enemies to 0 when she's fully supported.

-Is the youngest and weakest of her group.

-Is Dieck's bitch.

Oujay:

-Not exceptional when he joins, but he gets to eat up axe users and gain a bajillion EXP while doing it.

-Gets solid offense rather quickly due to doubling axe d00ds with swords and then getting axes when he promotes and not having failure Str. He also has access to more and better slayer/effective weapons than Thany.

-Nice concrete durability due to passable Def and very good HP and the best WT control you could have without being a Paladin.

-Is a baller that rapes enemies and doesn't need supports to do it.

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Thany:

-Is the youngest and weakest of her group.

-Is Dieck's bitch.

I think Ward begs to differ with the first point. Regardless, let's compare the two groups. Oujay might be better than his group, but he's competing with a couple of failure armor knights one of whom is graveyard tier. Thany is competing with a god tier and a unit who is at least upper mid. The captain of Thany's group is ranked much, much, much higher than the captain of Oujay's group, and even the failure of Thany's group is still much better than the failure unit of Oujay's group (LOL, wendy, she makes amelia look usable). Thany could be worse than her group and Oujay better than his and it would still be entirely possible that Thany >>> Oujay, actually it would be probable, since Thany comes from a much more respectable background and the w1n of her comrades probably rubbed off on her a bit.

I like how you use "Dieck's bitch" like it's a point against her. Dieck is the manliest god tier unit by far. Notice that his incredibly manly, god tier, 15 CON self will choose Thany over any other woman in the game. Clarine is his only other support that's even female and it's rly slow, he obviously prefers Thany. I don't know about you, but I think that really says something about Thany. Being Dieck's bitch is still better than being the prize unit in a group whose other units consist of Barth and Wendy. I mean, who is Oujay's bitch? Let's look at his options. Lilina? lol, pedo. Lalum? lol, sho's a ho, 7 out of 7 of her supports are male, and her Oujay support is 1/+1 so he still has to try really hard for that shit. fail. Wendy? lol, massive fail. Oujay obviously has no game.

Supportz ftl

Yeah, Oujay sucks balls at this. 4 out of 5 units on his list are shitty. Lalum is 1/+1 and prefers to support Echidna by a mile and a half, so Oujay is stuck with a B at most and he's out of luck when Lalum has to decide whether to end next to him or Echidna. Also, the bonuses Oujay gives to her are shit. An offensive affinity which offers no defensive bonuses to a dancer. Ugh. Talk about useless stats. Plus Lalum is rarely if ever getting attacked in the first place, because Combat rank matters in this game and she doesn't have to go in enemy range to do her job. So that's a phail. Usually the disadvantage of support bonuses being unreliable is cancelled out by the fact that the unit is also giving out some stats to the other unit in addition to receiving. Here this isn't the case cause those stats Oujay gives to Lalum are worthless.

So Oujay has no advantage to cancel out the disadvantage of support stats being unreliable. I'm going to multiply his support bonuses by 0.75 to represent this. FE6 is pretty lenient on Tactics so I think that's a fair assessment of how often Oujay can stay in range of Lalum without any drawbacks. Be glad it's not FE7 or efficiency play, since then I'd probably come down really hard on this point.

But what about Thany? Thany, unlike Oujay, is pretty popular and it's not hard for her to get some supportz. Lot obviously wants her. Lot has two options that aren't bad for one reason or another and Thany is one of them. Ward sucks, Echidna is 1/+1 and a late joiner, Lance has better options. And Dieck totally wants her.

I notice you cited Klein in which case Clarine's two partners are Klein and Rutger undisputed, leaving Dieck free to pursue a much faster Thany support which is probably better for all parties involved. Clarine is an inferior option anyways. She can't attack for half the game and even after promotion her one flaw is offense and the support gives her no Atk, not to mention it's the dreaded 1/+1, so it's just like what's the point. If you’re going to try and argue that Thany can’t get Dieck because Clarine is a better option then I’m gonna argue that Oujay can’t get Lalum because Lalum would rather build a secondary C with Roy instead (he has a C slot open and at least he gives Avo).

Thany can viably get an A rank with either one of them since their supports are both the same Spd, 10/+2. Which one would be better for her is tough to determine, Crit and Atk are both good for her and that's the only difference between their affinities, so w/e.

I am going to divide further discussion into three epochs of time.

The Pre-Oujay Age

In the world of FE6, Thany was chilling. She was the only Pegasus Knight in Roy's army, or even the only flying unit at all for that matter, and she saw that this was good. She had useful abilities that no other unit had, and she was considered to be useful and well-liked. Thany was happy and all was well.

---

Thany's mobility is limited by archers? Perhaps. Yet her mobility is less limited than that of other units in many obvious ways. Look at all those forests on Ch 5. Your units can only go through them like 2-3 squares at a time and it's super crowded in there as a result; only a few units can attack at a time. Unless your name is Thany, in which case you can cover the same ground in 1 turn as a foot unit would in 3 turns for that section. Thany's better than atleast half your attackers there just because she can actually get to the front to attack. Getting forest defense bonuses doesn't seem so special anymore when you can't move up far enough to utilize them.

Check out all that impassable terrain. Rivers at the start of Ch 4 and a cliff near the middle of the map, which Thany can cross freely but other units have to go around the long way and waste move points. A huge fucking mountain in the middle of the map on Ch 5. Houses fucking everywhere in Ch 7. She can attack enemies from this impassable terrain and remove herself from the crowded land tiles while still putting damage down; your group is extremely squished together in many parts of these early chapters (start of Ch 4 & 5 ftl), so it's nice to have Thany not taking up a highly contested land tile. She frees up a tile for another foot unit to use while still being able to contribute damage. w1n.

This is pretty significant shit. Compare Thany to Random Foot Unit #10 at the start of Ch 5. If you use Thany here, she can attack from the peaks and lay down damage without crowding anyone else out of a space. But if RFU#10 tries to attack here, he's hogging a plains tile which another land unit could've been using instead, and that unit gets pushed back in order to make room for RFU#10. Whereas with Thany instead of RFU#10, that other land unit that RFU#10 squeezed out gets to move up and attack, and Thany can still attack as well. If you use Thany here you're getting Thany's Offense + Someone Else's Offense. If you use RFU#10 here you're getting RFU#10's Offense instead of Someone Else's Offense. fail. Even if Thany herself has bad offense, it doesn't matter cause she's letting an entire additional unit attack besides just contributing her own offense.

Well there goes her bow weakness or w/e. Is it a big weakness? Maybe. But Thany has some rly big advantages to counter it. But wait, there's more! Thany still has all sorts of awesome utility left over even after considering the above.

---

In Ch 2, maybe Thany sucks a massive dick and gets assraped if those soldiers even glance at her (not the case, btw), but it doesn't matter because she's still very useful here even if she never attacks. That stupid boss has 16 Def and 38 Avo and you've got no magic. How are you gonna get past that fucker? The best Lot + Hammer can do against him is 30 hit, maybe 32 if he proc'd Skl. Roy + Rapier does about 4 damage. ._.

But then voila, there's an Armorslayer from that village! Dieck can take it and kick Rude's ass. But how to get it? Sending someone backwards at the start is fail, since then they're behind for the rest of the chapter and can't help you out as much, plus foot units will have a hard time catching up anyways. Merlinus goes shopping for a while before he can even start moving towards the gate, so that's a no. Luckily, you have Thany, who can fly directly over the mountain, pick up the Armorslayer, and pop right back faster than anyone else can. w1n. She can also take some of the crap Merlinus bought while she's at it so that you can go ahead and start distributing it, instead of wasting time at the start of Ch 3 to trade it around and such. She can even take Lot with her to have him carry shit from Merlinus too and build support points. Thany puts forth a nice contribution here which can't be replicated by any other unit.

High Tactics rank requirements makes this not matter? Bullshat on a stick. FE6 has tons of late reinforcements, notably in Ch 4 and 5 (reinforcements go until turn 11 in Ch 4 and it takes a while for all the pirates to hit land, and in Ch 5 the reinforcements go up to turn 20 and possibly longer, I didn't check to see if they keep going), but there's none in Ch 2. Saving turns here lets you spend more time killing those late reinforcements for free Exp, or have more turns to set up those reinforcement kills for maximum efficiency, in future chapters. In Ch 2 there's no enemies left by the time you reach the boss so no reason to dawdle, and he's not going down anytime soon without that Armorslayer, so Thany makes herself quite helpful in minimizing turncount here.

Meanwhile what has Oujay done to help you so far? Jack shit.

Check out Ch 6. 8 locked rooms, 4 on each side of the map, and chests on both sides, and you have only one thief. How the fuck do you plan on getting all of that in a reasonable amount of time when it's spread out across the map like that? Logic would suggest rescue + drop trains involving mounts. Units like Thany help you to move in and out of those rooms ASAP. And reinforcements go til turn 16 on this chapter so you've got that to deal with as well. Plenty of shit going on here and Thany helps you move things along as efficiently as possible.

Ch 7 is absurd. 8 houses and 2 chests in top right corner and 3 shops? lol. How do you plan on getting all that shit? It's just like Ch 2 and Ch 6. Thany can fly right over those houses and walls, while other units have to go around them, so having her zip around and get them all and/or using her to drop Chad off at the treasure room is the fastest way to collect everything. No one else can get shit done as fast as she can here.

And what's up with Treck and Zealot? Those bastards need rescuing, but they're stuck in between two rows of houses with enemies on both sides. Thany can reach them before anyone else can. She can fly the houses, pop in there, pick up Treck, and pop right back out without you having to clear out all the enemies first, which can easily be the difference between Treck living or dying and can't be accomplished by any other unit. Getting Zealot rescued and recruited ASAP prevents him from killing enemies as an NPC and wasting those Exp opportunities, not to mention he’s a useful guy for weakening stuff/meatshielding so you want control of him ASAP, and he can die too if he’s not saved soon enough.

Meanwhile, I ask you, what has Oujay done to help you so far? Jack shit.

Rescuing is good shit in general, particularly since Thany has the most versatility in where she can move after rescuing and moving people around is useful in FE6's crowded early chapters. If you want to bring another unit's offense to bear on a given turn instead of having Thany attack, for example against those ass cavaliers in Ch 4 where there's only a couple bridges across the river and thus only a couple places where you can attack at melee, you can send Dude #1 in, have Thany rescue and run back, then send in Dude #2, then have someone worthless unit like Ward or Bors take/drop Dude #1. Nice.

Your healers can get one-rounded by ranged attacks in early chapters; Clarine and Ellen are OHKO'd by 17 and 16 Atk respectively at base and Ch 5 Hand Axe Fighters are hovering around 20 Atk. Healing Alan gonna put you in range of a hand axe that'll OHKO on enemy phase? Solution, easy, heal anyways, then have Thany rescue, run back, worthless unit take/drop. Beautiful.

lol, look at Ch 8. There's multiple 13-14 tile gaps from one group of enemies to the next. wtf? Rescue/drop is required for covering that empty ground ASAP and wasting as little time as possible and Thany can do this better than anyone else since she ignores pillars. Then there's a treasure room which is on past the throne on the left side of the map. Mounted units are once again ideal for carrying your two thieves up in there ASAP.

Meanwhile, what has Oujay done to help you so far? Jack shit.

Tactics lenience doesn’t make any of this insignificant. Finishing faster while still killing everything is always better and that’s what Thany helps you do. Having more turns available gives you more freedom to abuse reinforcements and set up your kills so that you maximize your Combat efficiency and Exp gains while building as many support points as possible, instead of having to play more aggressively and make sacrifices in the above areas. Thany saves turns for free and that’s clearly not irrelevant or insignificant.

---

That’s a lot of stuff Thany does without even attacking anything. Damn. This looks pretty bad for Oujay tbh, that I’m just now getting to Thany’s combat. Now, you put forth the proposition, that Thany’s combat sucks when she joins. To that I ask, does it matter? No, it doesn’t. Thany’s there and Oujay isn’t and that’s what matters. The cool thing about those early chapters is that PC count is still low and you haven’t gained access to the preparations screen yet. There’s no one better to be using in Thany’s place even if she’s bad, because you have all units on the field anyways. Even if she sucks she’s still helpful. So what if other units are better? Thany’s still capable of fighting and attacking, and therefore contributing positively. Oujay isn’t.

Now we finally get to the prep screen in Ch 6. You can’t field everyone anymore so the above point is gone now. How good is Thany now? Well let’s see.

L8 Thany C Lot C Dieck: 7.1 Atk, 29.2 Hit, 11.9 Crit, 16.2 Spd----20.2 Hp, 7.7 Def, 7.8 Res, 46.6 Avo

L8 Lance C Roy C Alan: 9.8 Atk, 25.65 Hit, 9.1 Crit, 11.5 Spd----25.6 Hp, 8.4 Def, 2 Res, 37.5 Avo

Not so shitty when you look at it this way, is she? I don’t need to remind you Lance is frequently considered the best unit in FE6. And yes, I know her CON sucks and she loses weight from every weapon evar. Look at her Spd and Avo leads. She’s still faster and she still has more Avo even after accounting for that.

Actually the CON gap is 5, so even when both are using the heaviest weapons, Lance’s AS lead is only 0.3. When Thany uses Iron, she wins AS by 0.7, and when she uses Slim, she wins by 4.7. Nice. Lance might have more Atk, but when those 11-12 AS mercs show up Thany’s doubling and Lance is not, and she wins slightly in Hit/Crit which contribute towards Combat in general by preventing random whiffs/causing random ORKOs respectively.

Look at that nice Hp lead Lance has. That’s pretty cool. He probably wins concrete defense against physical enemies. In exchange, Thany stomps him against all the mages in Ch 6. They have 11-12 Atk, so 3-4 damage against Thany (6-8RKO) but 9-10 against Lance (3RKO). Ouch. In Avo, they roughly equalize most of the time, except when Thany busts out the slim lance for overdrive Spd which gives her nearly a 10 Avo lead. Situational? Hell yes it is, but Thany has the option to randomly give herself +10 Avo and Lance doesn’t.

“but cats, axes are the most common enemy until chapter 13 and lance has swords and thany doesn’t, that’s +/- a shitload of hit/avo and some def”

Not in Ch 6-8 they aren’t. There’s not a single axe enemy to be found in those 3 chapters. Count ‘em. Thany is able to keep up with Lance in pure combat performance from Ch 6-8, i.e. the rest of the earlygame until Oujay joins. That’s pretty w1n. More positive contribution.

The Pre-Promotion Age

One day, Thany’s world was shattered. A new group of units had joined the army. One of them looked like he’d been hit in the face repeatedly with a load of bricks. The other one was an ugly girl who was horribly weak and useless. Worse than both of them was the third unit; Oujay. He was hideous and shitty, and he gave blue hair a bad name, and Thany hated him. The two immediately declared war on each other; but rather than a fight to the death, they battled by competing to see who could be the more useful unit in Roy’s army. It was a contest that would take great amounts of skill and determination. This is the tale of their epic struggle.

---

Base Oujay: 7 Atk, 23 Hit, 5 Crit, 9 Spd----24 Hp, 4 Def, 0 Res, 24 Avo

11 Thany B Lot B Dieck: 10 Atk, 38.5 Hit, 20.75 Crit, 17.9 Spd----21.5 Hp, 9 Def, 9.5 Res, 56.8 Avo (o_O)

Yeah. So.

It’s too bad for Oujay that his best period in terms of enemy composition has to be while he’s simultaneously trying to climb his way out of a humongous statistical massacre.

Let’s give Thany an iron lance and Oujay an iron sword and put them up against a random axe enemy. Ok, so Oujay wins Hit by about 20 points, I’ll give you that. But, Thany can switch to the slim lance, cut the Hit gap in half, and still tie in Atk, while doubling Oujay’s AS and quintupling his Crit. With iron lance she just quadruples his Crit and only wins AS by 5 points while winning in Atk by 3, that’s alot better for Oujay. Or not. He’s getting raped no matter what. And that’s against an axe enemy. Other enemies still exist and Thany really rips Oujay a new one against them. Magic enemies anyone?

On defense, Oujay wins in Hp, that is pretty cool. Thany has over double his Def and Avo. lol, Res. No need to say any more.

That’s a vigorous and brutal assraping that Oujay is taking there.

Even if Oujay manages to pull himself together towards the tail end of the Isles and start winning, it’s not going to give him an overall victory. He’ll be lucky if he can just even the score, since either way Thany’s keeping him bent over initially, and she still has all that earlygame stuff that Oujay needs to account for.

Thany also has one last big burst of unique flying utility on Ch 11, but I won’t talk about that yet. I’ll get to it in my next post since this one is already pretty tl;dr.

The Promotion Age

Now Thany and her comrades had discovered these wonderful magical objects that randomly gave them new stats and abilities. Transformed from simple soldiers into badasses by these promo items, all the PCs tore through most of the enemy forces with ease. Roy’s army was much stronger now and the battles were getting pretty easy. But Oujay and Thany still continued their contest.

---

You brought up Sacae, but the cool thing about it is Ilia >>> Sacae. We’re going to Ilia alot more often than Sacae, Thany’s getting used, Sacae rapes Combat, etc. Even if Oujay were better on Sacae, if Thany wins Ilia, then Thany >>> overall for this time period because Ilia has about 3 times as much weight as Sacae. Now I’m not saying Sacae doesn’t matter, but Ilia matters so much more that it’s not significant if Oujay wins Sacae and loses Ilia. I’ll also admit this argument is a total cop-out because I’ve never played Sacae, but it’s valid and true. I think so, at least.

INEVITABLE CHAPTER 21 COMPARISON

20/9 Thany A Dieck B Lot: 18.1 Atk, 67.8 Hit, 31.3 Crit, 26.6 Spd----35.2 Hp, 12.7 Def, 15.7 Res, 86.4 Avo

20/8 Oujay C Lalum: 18.6 Atk, 47.5 Hit, 12.85 Crit, 21.7 Spd----48.4 Hp, 12.8 Def, 5.6 Res, 64.1 Avo

Oujay: +0.5 Atk, +0.1 Def, +13.2 Hp

Thany: +20.3 Hit, +18.45 Crit, +4.9 Spd, +10.1 Res, +22.3 Avo

Lulz hp, Oujay can take that, I’ll be content with Thany’s wtfrape leads in 4 other stats.

Offense wall o’ text:

Even with all of her support bonuses in play, Oujay has 1.5 more Atk due to axes and then 2.5 vs all of those plentiful lance users. One critical and then another hit with a Killer Axe kills a 47 HP/17 Def Wyvern and one critical kills all of the bow and magic users. He OHKOs the Knights with a Hammer

(and almost does it with an Armourslayer) and the Paladins and Cavaliers with a Halberd, but he doesn't have a monopoly on those weapons at all. Let's just slap two Killer Axes, a Hand Axe, a Killing Edge, and an Armourslayer on him and call it a day. He owns the horsey units the same way he owns the Wyverns except they have way less Def so one critical can seal the deal easily without an additional hit being needed. Thany can get more Atk Spd, but the amount of enemies she doubles and he doesn't is literally 0, so who cares? The fastest enemy on the map has 16 Spd, and it's a Silver Lance Wyvern Lord, and the others have 15 Spd anyways, and Thany needs to stay the hell away from those because they can do way too much damage and they laugh at her Atk. Oujay's a baller with Killer Axes and good HP, so he'll just rape them. That same Wyvern that Oujay needs one critical and a hit to kill? Thany needs a double critical. Thany's critical doesn't instantly kill the Archers. Armourslayer Oujay = dead Murdock. If Thany's supporters aren't near her, which is very likely due to her Mov gap with Lott and Tate wanting to stick with her A a lot, which is probably Klein, Oujay is thrashing her mercilessly in offense instead of just normally.

2.5 more Atk vs all those wyverns is gay and mostly worthless. Their Hp is too high for a small damage lead to be significant. It’s unlikely that Oujay’s 5 more damage will be the difference between a second attacker finishing or not finishing (since you know Oujay/Thany aren’t gonna 2HKO on their own). Even if it did make a difference there, so what? It’s not hard to work around. Use one of your many high Atk units (Alan, any caster cept maybe Clarine, etc.) in conjunction with Thany and her slightly lower Atk doesn’t matter. Indeed it’s preferable and harmless to do so.

On the other hand, 18-19 more crit and +20 hit (Thany’s natural Hit lead is double Oujay’s WTA hit boost and killer lance is 10 more hit than killer axe) is quite significant. 15-16 AS wyvern lords? That means around 40 Avo, so Oujay has like 94% hit. He has ~12% chance to miss at least once, while Thany has 100%. Throw in the Crit lead on top of that and Thany’s odds of a double crit are only about 10% lower than Oujay’s odds of a single crit + a normal hit. Assuming 20 Def, Thany does more damage on a double crit than Oujay on a crit + hit. While her damage on a crit + hit is lower than Oujay’s, her odds of pulling one off are considerably higher; about 78% vs Oujay’s ~36%. While Oujay does have a small chance to double crit and ORKO, he also has a small chance to whiff completely on one of his hits, so that about evens out.

And that’s against an enemy with massive Def and lances. Other enemies exist and it’s obvious Thany will be winning against them if she can go toe-to-toe against this one which heavily favors Oujay.

Defense wall o’ text:

Durability: Thany is one-shotted by the Aircalibur Sage without her supports, lol. The Archers also do very nice damage to her. Anyways, she can avoid those, but their existence hurts her mobility a bit. Both of them laugh at the Wyverns as they lolmiss almost every time, but Oujay's offense against them is significantly better. He can counter the Javelin ones with a Hand Axe and has a 2.5 Atk lead while doing so. Thany doesn't really get hit by the Steel Lance/Javelin guys, but neither does anyone else really, so who cares? A Silver Lance Wyvern Lord has around 26 Hit on her when she's using a Killer Lance. Thany will take 26 Damage in one hit to her 35 HP. These defensive parameters are with all of her supports. The same d00d has about 34 Hit on Oujay and does 25 Dmg to his 48 HP. Oujay can eat the hit and not care. Why? Everything else those guys have with them uses shitty weapons. They have about 18 Hit on Oujay and the Steel Lance ones do 17 Dmg, which still fails to kill them. If Thany is hit by the Silver Lance d00d, she can be sneezed on and die. If her supporters aren't with her, she's very much screwed, as she loses 12 Evd and 2 Def. The Killer Lance ones have about 28 Hit on her and will kill her. Without her supports, the 89 Hit Wyverns have about 22 Hit on her and still don't have 0 when she's supported. Oujay can actually eat that hit without dying, anyways. So, yeah, Oujay is stomping her in durability even without supports while she has them all.

Hand axe’s bullshit accuracy makes Thany’s hit lead more relevant. Assuming like 28 Avo (11 AS + 6 Lck), Hand Axe Oujay’s odds of whiffing atleast once are close to 1/5 (around ~17%). Thany’s chance of missing at least once w/ javelin is roughly 0.9%. I’ll take Thany’s accuracy over Oujay’s significant chance to whiff. When Thany lays her reliable damage down on something, you can plan ahead for how much damage she’ll do and be ready to use a high offense unit to finish the job and avoid damage to Combat rank. If you attack with Oujay, you have to plan for him whiffing (in which case he does even less than Thany and you would need an even higher offense unit to come in and help him out) or else risk Combat damage, which is significantly more difficult.

Avo leads are very relevant at these low levels of enemy accuracy. That 8 Avo lead results in Oujay having nearly twice as much chance to get hit by the silver lance wyvern lord. 13.78% for Thany vs 23.46% for Oujay. Oujay can safely fight more of them at one time, but Thany will need healing less often, which is a considerable advantage here since your healers have good and useful offense against those massive Def wyverns. As a tiebreaker, there’s also magic enemies chilling in this chapter where Thany completely dominates. Oh, and those killer lance wyverns? Thany has nearly 50 CEV. She doesn’t give a shit. Oujay however has only around 20 CEV and can easily get crit’d. fail. There goes his advantage of safely fighting more of them at one time, lol. I guess Thany just outright wins after all.

I’ll probably talk about the last two sections more in the next post, because I already dropped a tl;dr nuke on the first section and I don’t want to rape the page too much.

tl;dr version is that Thany has alot of nice contributions before Oujay even joins and the rest of the game after he shows up is a close contest, at the very least, so those early contributions provide Thany with a strong tiebreaker.

In conclusion

Thany:

-Ass Has no opportunity cost when she joins.

-Never has good offense due to horrendous Str and not getting h4x axes……but has better offense than Oujay or at least equivalent.

-Very bad concrete durability and Evd not even good enough to shoot the hit of the lowest Hit enemies to 0 when she's fully supported…..but has better defense than Oujay any ways.

-Is the youngest and weakest of her group rly useful early on because of unique flying utility.

-Is Dieck's bitch woman of choice.

Oujay:

-Not exceptional when he joins, but he gets to eat up axe users and gain a bajillion EXP while doing it.

-Gets solid offense rather quickly due to doubling axe d00ds with swords and then getting axes when he promotes and not having failure Str. He also has access to more and better slayer/effective weapons than Thany.

-Nice concrete durability due to passable Def and very good HP and the best WT control you could have without being a Paladin.

-Is a baller that rapes enemies and doesn't need supports to do it.

-Is ugly

-Has no game

-Sucks at life

-Wishes he could be as hawt as Thany

-Should kill himself

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I think Ward begs to differ with the first point. Regardless, let's compare the two groups. Oujay might be better than his group, but he's competing with a couple of failure armor knights one of whom is graveyard tier. Thany is competing with a god tier and a unit who is at least upper mid. The captain of Thany's group is ranked much, much, much higher than the captain of Oujay's group, and even the failure of Thany's group is still much better than the failure unit of Oujay's group (LOL, wendy, she makes amelia look usable). Thany could be worse than her group and Oujay better than his and it would still be entirely possible that Thany >>> Oujay, actually it would be probable, since Thany comes from a much more respectable background and the w1n of her comrades probably rubbed off on her a bit.

I like how you use "Dieck's bitch" like it's a point against her. Dieck is the manliest god tier unit by far. Notice that his incredibly manly, god tier, 15 CON self will choose Thany over any other woman in the game. Clarine is his only other support that's even female and it's rly slow, he obviously prefers Thany. I don't know about you, but I think that really says something about Thany. Being Dieck's bitch is still better than being the prize unit in a group whose other units consist of Barth and Wendy. I mean, who is Oujay's bitch? Let's look at his options. Lilina? lol, pedo. Lalum? lol, sho's a ho, 7 out of 7 of her supports are male, and her Oujay support is 1/+1 so he still has to try really hard for that shit. fail. Wendy? lol, massive fail. Oujay obviously has no game.

I can't compete with your wit, but thankfully it's not relevant to proving which unit is better!

But what about Thany? Thany, unlike Oujay, is pretty popular and it's not hard for her to get some supportz. Lot obviously wants her. Lot has two options that aren't bad for one reason or another and Thany is one of them. Ward sucks, Echidna is 1/+1 and a late joiner, Lance has better options. And Dieck totally wants her.

I notice you cited Klein in which case Clarine's two partners are Klein and Rutger undisputed, leaving Dieck free to pursue a much faster Thany support which is probably better for all parties involved. Clarine is an inferior option anyways. She can't attack for half the game and even after promotion her one flaw is offense and the support gives her no Atk, not to mention it's the dreaded 1/+1, so it's just like what's the point. If you’re going to try and argue that Thany can’t get Dieck because Clarine is a better option then I’m gonna argue that Oujay can’t get Lalum because Lalum would rather build a secondary C with Roy instead (he has a C slot open and at least he gives Avo).

Thany can viably get an A rank with either one of them since their supports are both the same Spd, 10/+2. Which one would be better for her is tough to determine, Crit and Atk are both good for her and that's the only difference between their affinities, so w/e.

Clarine can start building her support with Dieck long before Klein joins and she prefers Crit over Hit by far. Dieck also gets Def/Res over Atk if he goes with Clarine. 1 Def/Res + 2.5 Evd > 1 Atk. Why does Dieck want Thany again? When he joins, his bases are so crazy he doesn't need supports yet and Thany's unable to stay near him since he's busy frontlining against axe users and bow users exist. Dieck should probably go for B Rutger/B Clarine and then Thany can get a C, I guess. I see no reason to not create the broken triangle of doom considering how great the bonuses are and how easy to build those supports are.

Thany's mobility is limited by archers? Perhaps. Yet her mobility is less limited than that of other units in many obvious ways. Look at all those forests on Ch 5. Your units can only go through them like 2-3 squares at a time and it's super crowded in there as a result; only a few units can attack at a time. Unless your name is Thany, in which case you can cover the same ground in 1 turn as a foot unit would in 3 turns for that section. Thany's better than atleast half your attackers there just because she can actually get to the front to attack. Getting forest defense bonuses doesn't seem so special anymore when you can't move up far enough to utilize them.

Unfortunately for both you and Thany, I just got done playing that chapter, so I can tell you a few things about it. First of all, there are several Nomads that one-shot her and they have ~100 Hit before counting her Evd, and she ain't rockin' no 50+ Evd right now, so... This chapter is also absolute teeming with axe users. There are many axe using reinforcements on top of the starting ones. How is Thany of any value here? One group can cut through the forests and use them to never be hit. One group can ignore the forests and go get that gate unlocked.

I will be generous to Thany and let her gain 1 level per chapter and even an additional level despite her horrible offense and defense.

Level 5: 19 HP, 6 Def, 35 Evd

No point in talking about her offense since that is horrible and her defense will show she can't even use her offense ever. We'll have her use a Slim Lance for maxed Evd.

13 Str/7 Skl/3 Lck Fighter with Iron: 55 Hit, 16 Dmg

with Steel: 40 Hit, 19 Dmg (LOL)

with Hand: 40 Hit, 15 Dmg

The Iron Sword Mercs have 12-14 AS, so no doubling for her.

So, what is she even doing with this mobility of hers?

Check out all that impassable terrain. Rivers at the start of Ch 4 and a cliff near the middle of the map, which Thany can cross freely but other units have to go around the long way and waste move points. A huge fucking mountain in the middle of the map on Ch 5. Houses fucking everywhere in Ch 7. She can attack enemies from this impassable terrain and remove herself from the crowded land tiles while still putting damage down; your group is extremely squished together in many parts of these early chapters (start of Ch 4 & 5 ftl), so it's nice to have Thany not taking up a highly contested land tile. She frees up a tile for another foot unit to use while still being able to contribute damage. w1n.

There is a Nomad right across those rivers, and then more nomads, and then archers, and then axe d00ds start coming from the south. What is she doing with that mobility? Moving out to go die?

All of the houses on the right are guarded by Archers and Knights. Things that one-shot her, and other things she can't damage.

This is pretty significant shit. Compare Thany to Random Foot Unit #10 at the start of Ch 5. If you use Thany here, she can attack from the peaks and lay down damage without crowding anyone else out of a space. But if RFU#10 tries to attack here, he's hogging a plains tile which another land unit could've been using instead, and that unit gets pushed back in order to make room for RFU#10. Whereas with Thany instead of RFU#10, that other land unit that RFU#10 squeezed out gets to move up and attack, and Thany can still attack as well. If you use Thany here you're getting Thany's Offense + Someone Else's Offense. If you use RFU#10 here you're getting RFU#10's Offense instead of Someone Else's Offense. fail. Even if Thany herself has bad offense, it doesn't matter cause she's letting an entire additional unit attack besides just contributing her own offense.

There are almost no enemies she can attack in Chapter 5 without getting owned, as shown. Almost every enemy is an axe user with stats like those.

In Ch 2, maybe Thany sucks a massive dick and gets assraped if those soldiers even glance at her (not the case, btw), but it doesn't matter because she's still very useful here even if she never attacks. That stupid boss has 16 Def and 38 Avo and you've got no magic. How are you gonna get past that fucker? The best Lot + Hammer can do against him is 30 hit, maybe 32 if he proc'd Skl. Roy + Rapier does about 4 damage. ._.

But then voila, there's an Armorslayer from that village! Dieck can take it and kick Rude's ass. But how to get it? Sending someone backwards at the start is fail, since then they're behind for the rest of the chapter and can't help you out as much, plus foot units will have a hard time catching up anyways. Merlinus goes shopping for a while before he can even start moving towards the gate, so that's a no. Luckily, you have Thany, who can fly directly over the mountain, pick up the Armorslayer, and pop right back faster than anyone else can. w1n. She can also take some of the crap Merlinus bought while she's at it so that you can go ahead and start distributing it, instead of wasting time at the start of Ch 3 to trade it around and such. She can even take Lot with her to have him carry shit from Merlinus too and build support points. Thany puts forth a nice contribution here which can't be replicated by any other unit

High Tactics rank requirements makes this not matter? Bullshat on a stick. FE6 has tons of late reinforcements, notably in Ch 4 and 5 (reinforcements go until turn 11 in Ch 4 and it takes a while for all the pirates to hit land, and in Ch 5 the reinforcements go up to turn 20 and possibly longer, I didn't check to see if they keep going), but there's none in Ch 2. Saving turns here lets you spend more time killing those late reinforcements for free Exp, or have more turns to set up those reinforcement kills for maximum efficiency, in future chapters. In Ch 2 there's no enemies left by the time you reach the boss so no reason to dawdle, and he's not going down anytime soon without that Armorslayer, so Thany makes herself quite helpful in minimizing turncount here.

Problem 1: Wolt and Bors are 100% worthless and can go do this shopping for you instead of Merlinus. Merlinus can get the Armourslayer himself and get to the second set of forts in a total of 8 turns. You're telling me you're clearing out all of those enemies and at Rude by then?

Problem 2: *loads save file*

I just blitzkreig'd with my best weapons and even abused Marcus and tried to progress as quickly as possible and Merlinus was ahead of Lance even after getting the Armourslayer and moving down since the enemies delayed Lance and everyone else even with Marcus using his Silver Lance. Dieck's group didn't clear out everyone over there in that time, either. What Thany does is pointless.

Problem 3: Carrying Lot hurts your team by not letting him fight and it hurts Lot by not letting him gain EXP.

Meanwhile what has Oujay done to help you so far? Jack shit.

He has refrained from adding Suck to your team, which Thany wasn't kind to do.

Check out Ch 6. 8 locked rooms, 4 on each side of the map, and chests on both sides, and you have only one thief. How the fuck do you plan on getting all of that in a reasonable amount of time when it's spread out across the map like that? Logic would suggest rescue + drop trains involving mounts. Units like Thany help you to move in and out of those rooms ASAP. And reinforcements go til turn 16 on this chapter so you've got that to deal with as well. Plenty of shit going on here and Thany helps you move things along as efficiently as possible.

Ch 7 is absurd. 8 houses and 2 chests in top right corner and 3 shops? lol. How do you plan on getting all that shit? It's just like Ch 2 and Ch 6. Thany can fly right over those houses and walls, while other units have to go around them, so having her zip around and get them all and/or using her to drop Chad off at the treasure room is the fastest way to collect everything. No one else can get shit done as fast as she can here.

Sadly, this game hates Thany. IS decided to put Archers near all of that shit and have Archers be with the reinforcements and Knights she can't damage that rape her be there and she dies in two hits to any of those things and one from the Archers.

I will concede that her carrying and stuff like that can save a few turns here and there, but she's not putting out any combat utility at all, and that's how you gain EXP, so is she ever gaining levels?

And what's up with Treck and Zealot? Those bastards need rescuing, but they're stuck in between two rows of houses with enemies on both sides. Thany can reach them before anyone else can. She can fly the houses, pop in there, pick up Treck, and pop right back out without you having to clear out all the enemies first, which can easily be the difference between Treck living or dying and can't be accomplished by any other unit. Getting Zealot rescued and recruited ASAP prevents him from killing enemies as an NPC and wasting those Exp opportunities, not to mention he’s a useful guy for weakening stuff/meatshielding so you want control of him ASAP, and he can die too if he’s not saved soon enough.

No, they don't. I just got done with that chapter. Sending Marcus and Dieck up the right quickly lets you clear a path to Zealot in one turn. Roy talks to Noah. Noah gets Zealot. Zealot gets Treck. All in one turn, baby. Then you can move Treck and Noah to forests and they're relatively safe and Zealot can go rape shit. Thany rescues them? That eats up three turns (hers, then hers and theirs) and she loses almost half her Evd and stuff in that chapter can one-shot her, so...

lol, look at Ch 8. There's multiple 13-14 tile gaps from one group of enemies to the next. wtf? Rescue/drop is required for covering that empty ground ASAP and wasting as little time as possible and Thany can do this better than anyone else since she ignores pillars. Then there's a treasure room which is on past the throne on the left side of the map. Mounted units are once again ideal for carrying your two thieves up in there ASAP.

The problem with this is that carrying any unit but Roy doesn't speed up the chapter. Roy must reach Leygance's throne and seize it. Are your mounted units carrying everyone instead of fighting or something? Also; Zealot, Marcus, Noah, Treck, Lance, and Alan can do that carrying and dropping stuff, except they have existing HP/Def stats and no weakness to bows.

Let's observe a level 7 Thany's offense against the weakest loldier I can find: 6 Str + 10 Mt Steel Lance vs 33 HP and 2 Def = 14x2. She can't even kill the shittiest enemy with a Steel Lance. Everyone else rapes these things. Oujay doesn't at first, but he can one-round the Knights with the Armorslayer he shows up with, and you know Oujay's offense will exist soon (already has more Str than Thany at 4 levels lower with a higher growth).

That’s a lot of stuff Thany does without even attacking anything. Damn. This looks pretty bad for Oujay tbh, that I’m just now getting to Thany’s combat. Now, you put forth the proposition, that Thany’s combat sucks when she joins. To that I ask, does it matter? No, it doesn’t. Thany’s there and Oujay isn’t and that’s what matters. The cool thing about those early chapters is that PC count is still low and you haven’t gained access to the preparations screen yet. There’s no one better to be using in Thany’s place even if she’s bad, because you have all units on the field anyways. Even if she sucks she’s still helpful. So what if other units are better? Thany’s still capable of fighting and attacking, and therefore contributing positively. Oujay isn’t.

Adding Suck to the team in terms of combat power is a bad thing regardless of Oujay being there or not. Being there and sucking is worse than not being there. Thany does some movement stuff and carrying. Okay. Let's see how that punishes Thany later...

Now we finally get to the prep screen in Ch 6. You can’t field everyone anymore so the above point is gone now. How good is Thany now? Well let’s see.

L8 Thany C Lot C Dieck: 7.1 Atk, 29.2 Hit, 11.9 Crit, 16.2 Spd----20.2 Hp, 7.7 Def, 7.8 Res, 46.6 Avo

L8 Lance C Roy C Alan: 9.8 Atk, 25.65 Hit, 9.1 Crit, 11.5 Spd----25.6 Hp, 8.4 Def, 2 Res, 37.5 Avo

Not so shitty when you look at it this way, is she? I don’t need to remind you Lance is frequently considered the best unit in FE6. And yes, I know her CON sucks and she loses weight from every weapon evar. Look at her Spd and Avo leads. She’s still faster and she still has more Avo even after accounting for that.

Actually the CON gap is 5, so even when both are using the heaviest weapons, Lance’s AS lead is only 0.3. When Thany uses Iron, she wins AS by 0.7, and when she uses Slim, she wins by 4.7. Nice. Lance might have more Atk, but when those 11-12 AS mercs show up Thany’s doubling and Lance is not, and she wins slightly in Hit/Crit which contribute towards Combat in general by preventing random whiffs/causing random ORKOs respectively.

Look at that nice Hp lead Lance has. That’s pretty cool. He probably wins concrete defense against physical enemies. In exchange, Thany stomps him against all the mages in Ch 6. They have 11-12 Atk, so 3-4 damage against Thany (6-8RKO) but 9-10 against Lance (3RKO). Ouch. In Avo, they roughly equalize most of the time, except when Thany busts out the slim lance for overdrive Spd which gives her nearly a 10 Avo lead. Situational? Hell yes it is, but Thany has the option to randomly give herself +10 Avo and Lance doesn’t.

“but cats, axes are the most common enemy until chapter 13 and lance has swords and thany doesn’t, that’s +/- a shitload of hit/avo and some def”

Not in Ch 6-8 they aren’t. There’s not a single axe enemy to be found in those 3 chapters. Count ‘em. Thany is able to keep up with Lance in pure combat performance from Ch 6-8, i.e. the rest of the earlygame until Oujay joins. That’s pretty w1n. More positive contribution.

All of the shit you just said would be cool if you didn't talk about Thany doing a bunch of carrying and shit instead of fighting. Her offense, as shown by me demontrating her performance against a basic enemy in Chapter 5 at level 5, is abysmal due to her durability being bottom tier to the point where many enemies kill her in one hit. How is she gaining enough EXP to shoot from level 1 to 8 in chapters 2, 3, 4, and 5 when there are so many bows and axes around and she's carrying people and performing other tasks instead of fighting?

Your levels for her and Lance are plain bullshit. Lance will have a significant level lead on her. Lance should be higher than 8 and she should be lower than 8. I can't really argue about a wrong comparison.

Base Oujay: 7 Atk, 23 Hit, 5 Crit, 9 Spd----24 Hp, 4 Def, 0 Res, 24 Avo

11 Thany B Lot B Dieck: 10 Atk, 38.5 Hit, 20.75 Crit, 17.9 Spd----21.5 Hp, 9 Def, 9.5 Res, 56.8 Avo (o_O)

How is this possible!? Where is she gaining 1,000 EXP from!? Her offense and durability are abysmal and you had her running around doing tons of shit. When was she fighting? What was she fighting to gain 1,000 EXP? Even if she gained a full 30 EXP per kill, she'd need 33.3 kills to reach that level. I can't debate if you just overinflate your unit's level for no reason. She's not getting ~40 kills before Oujay joins while performing those tasks you assigned to her.

You've provided no solid reasoning to break up the Rutger/Clarine/Dieck support triangle of d00m. Sure, Dieck supports Thany more quickly, but Thany is off flying and doing shit while Dieck is frontlining like a BAMF and getting healed by Clarine. Furthermore, a B with Thany provides 1 Atk, 5 Evd, and 1 Def/Res vs B Clarine's 2 Def/Res and 10 Evd and gives Clarine some much needed Crit and it doesn't force her to wait for Klein. Why are we shafting both Clarine and Dieck? To make Thany better for a debate? I think not. You're also telling me that Thany ended her turn next to Dieck and Lott 55 times each in the chapters before Oujay joins? Wasn't she trying to speed things up? If she's builing supports like that, you're taking your sweet time, thus negating this speeding up stuff you're talking about.

You brought up Sacae, but the cool thing about it is Ilia >>> Sacae. We’re going to Ilia alot more often than Sacae, Thany’s getting used, Sacae rapes Combat, etc. Even if Oujay were better on Sacae, if Thany wins Ilia, then Thany >>> overall for this time period because Ilia has about 3 times as much weight as Sacae. Now I’m not saying Sacae doesn’t matter, but Ilia matters so much more that it’s not significant if Oujay wins Sacae and loses Ilia. I’ll also admit this argument is a total cop-out because I’ve never played Sacae, but it’s valid and true. I think so, at least.

We did agree to count Ilia for more since Thany being in play makes your Peg levels exceed your Nomad levels in most cases.

<insert all of the Chapter 21 comparison stuff>

I really don't want to do the work to correct your statistical errors. I'll just summarize my problems with your comparisons. First of all, the support stuff, as I explained twice already I believe, so I won't repeat it all here. That A with Dieck should be dropped to a C at best. There's also a problem with her supporting Dieck in terms of actually using those bonuses. Dieck, Clarine, and Rutger can go frontline and stick together and be totally invincible, but Thany is going to break that up and go be with Dieck? Is she actually using her flight to do anything or is she sticking near foot units? Why don't you have her with Tate since that makes way more sense, especially since we both seem to have no objections to KIein existing?

Ah, and what you did for Oujay's supports is downright silly, good sir. Oujay had 14 chapters to build his support with Lalum. It takes 120 turns for them to have a B. 120 turns in 14 chapters that are longer than the ones Thany had with Dieck/Lott makes significantly more sense than Thany getting 55 turns in 7 much smaller chapters. Favortism much?

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I can't compete with your wit, but thankfully it's not relevant to proving which unit is better!

;_;

Supportz

Clarine can start building her support with Dieck long before Klein joins and she prefers Crit over Hit by far.

Perhaps she prefers crit after she promotes. Before then that +crit Dieck is giving her does nothing, and even after its still not a good idea to let her counter things all the time as she is still worse at one-rounding than the majority of your units. Changing her support over to Dieck wont make her offense on par with other high/top tier units and seriously worth utilizing alot.

Also, this is FE6 and getting +hit matters even on units that arent axe users. A 20/1 Clarine with Thunder has roughly 119 hit; if something has just 30 Avo (12 AS + 6 Lck) Clarine is reduced to a ~5% chance of missing at least once on a double, and there are enemies with more Avo than that and the possibility of enemies landing on defensive terrain for massive Avo boosts. A Klein support that eliminates or reduces that chance isnt giving significantly worse or less effective bonuses than a Dieck support which increases the chance to activate a crit.

Dieck also gets Def/Res over Atk if he goes with Clarine. 1 Def/Res + 2.5 Evd > 1 Atk. Why does Dieck want Thany again? When he joins, his bases are so crazy he doesn't need supports yet and Thany's unable to stay near him since he's busy frontlining against axe users and bow users exist. Dieck should probably go for B Rutger/B Clarine and then Thany can get a C, I guess. I see no reason to not create the broken triangle of doom considering how great the bonuses are and how easy to build those supports are.

1. He doesnt need supports yet? Is that seriously your argument? Ofcourse Dieck is good relative to your other units, but this is FE6 HM. Hes not one-rounding everything and hes not invincible, not even close. Theres plenty of room for improvement and additional stats will obviously help him. If anything hes closer to being invincible after promotion after hes gotten his absurd promo gains (+4 Hp/+4 Def wtf) and axes.

2. Again, getting +hit matters and is helpful. Loldiers in Ch 6 have 29-32 Hp and 1-2 Def; L10 Dieck w/ Iron Sword has only 15 Atk against them, so he needs the steel sword to one-round alot of them. That weapon only has 5 more hit than an iron axe and here its facing WTD so it actually has only 5 more hit than a javelin. Even with their 5-8 Avo, L10 steel sword Dieck is pulling like ~85% displayed on them which is 8-9% chance to miss atleast once and not one-round. And thats against loldiers who have less Avo than FE7 weighed down 0 Lck enemies. Is +hit better than +avo? Maybe not, but dont pretend that its worthless as that obviously isnt true.

3. Going back to the first paragraph here, dont pretend that Dieck getting the bonuses far, far earlier doesnt matter. Dieck x Thany is 10/+2 while Dieck x Clarine is 1/+1. It takes 55 turns for the former to get B rank and 60 for the latter to get C rank; it takes over twice as many turns for Clarine to get B rank as it does for Thany. For a short time, Dieck x Thany will be running around at a B and giving +1 Atk/+1 Def/+10 Crit/+5 Hit/+5 Avo while Dieck x Clarine hasnt even activated at all yet, then even after the C pops up, its giving no Atk or Hit, less Crit and the same amount of Def/Avo for however long it takes to build up another 60 turns. And thats without considering that Thany has Ch 2 and 3 and part of 4 during which to build support with Dieck before Clarine even joins.

4. And again, the bonuses arent even helpful to Clarine until she promotes. C rank on Dieck x Clarine is giving less helpful bonuses to a fighter and giving extra bonuses to a healer while another fighter gets no bonuses; B rank on Dieck x Thany is giving better bonuses to a fighter and giving extra bonuses to another fighter while a healer gets nothing, and still activates faster despite being a rank higher. The latter is the better choice.

Clarines support might have more of a case if it was alot more useful than Thanys during the lategame, but this isnt the case. +atk is not clearly worse than +def and if +hit is worse than +avo then its not by very much. This is FE6 where enemies actually have Avo and weapon hitrates are lower across the board; all stats are significant here except possibly CEV, which is still relevant in some cases since killer weapon enemies and zerkers/SMs with ridiculous +30 crit exist. At best the Clarine support is slightly better for Dieck later, while the Thany support is clearly significantly better earlier on due to actually activating over twice as fast, and giving bonuses to Thany > giving them to a unit that cant attack for a long period of time and will be guarded from the enemies when at all possible anyways.

5. If youre going to cite enemies that are a significant threat to Thany as hampering her flexibility, then acknowledge that the same applies to Clarine who is easily OHKOd for a significant period of time after she joins. She cant camp directly behind Dieck in the front if theres a hand axe brigand who can OHKO her from 2 range.

You've provided no solid reasoning to break up the Rutger/Clarine/Dieck support triangle of d00m. Sure, Dieck supports Thany more quickly, but Thany is off flying and doing shit while Dieck is frontlining like a BAMF and getting healed by Clarine. Furthermore, a B with Thany provides 1 Atk, 5 Evd, and 1 Def/Res vs B Clarine's 2 Def/Res and 10 Evd and gives Clarine some much needed Crit and it doesn't force her to wait for Klein. Why are we shafting both Clarine and Dieck? To make Thany better for a debate? I think not. You're also telling me that Thany ended her turn next to Dieck and Lott 55 times each in the chapters before Oujay joins? Wasn't she trying to speed things up? If she's builing supports like that, you're taking your sweet time, thus negating this speeding up stuff you're talking about.

1. Yeah, a B with Thany that wont exist because Dieck x Thany hits A rank 25 turns earlier than Dieck x Clarine hits B rank and Thany joins between 2 and 3 chapters earlier. They shouldnt both be B rank at the same time. A rank on Dieck x Thany gives only 3 less Avo but 5 more Crit and 7 more Hit than B Dieck x Clarine.

2. Off flying and doing shit? This might apply on Ch 6. Maybe on 7 if you use her to carry Chad up to that way out-of-the-way treasure room and on 2 for the armorslayer. Notice that cases of her flying off and doing shit arent even cited at all for Ch 3, 4 or 5, and her utility in Ch 8 doesnt preclude building support points, and even on chapters where it could apply shes still obviously not spending the entire chapter doing these errands rather than fighting. This hardly makes up for something around a 65 turn deficit in the sheer number of turns that is required for Clarine to reach the same support ranks (120 vs 55 for B rank). It probably just takes care of the extra turns Thany built up from the time before Clarine joins, if anything.

3. Making Clarine wait for Klein? This doesnt matter at all. Shell get a C with Dieck like 2 chapters before Klein joins and shes still an unpromoted healer during those two chapters. Her Klein support is 40/+3. It hits A rank in fewer turns than her Dieck support hits C rank. Itll be fully caught up by the time Clarine promotes and you have any reason to care about her support bonuses. On the other hand the gap in support speed between Dieck x Thany and Tate x Thany is much smaller and Thany can actually fight during the time period that having support bonuses earlier would matter for her, so making her wait for Tate is clearly undesirable.

4. Klein doesnt like having Clarine taken away from him as shes clearly his best option. If you dont have him supporting Clarine then his other alternatives for that second spot aside from Tate are all worse. Percival starts building considerably later and builds considerably slower. Dieck is already full with Clarine and Rutger using his slots. Elphin doesnt exist.

I dont see how your set-up is at all preferable.

Pre-Oujay

Adding Suck to the team in terms of combat power is a bad thing regardless of Oujay being there or not. Being there and sucking is worse than not being there.

No, if this is what you think, you dont understand the reasons why sucking is usually not better than not being there. In most cases there are better and more efficient units that couldve been used in the shitty units place. If Team A is using a shitty unit and Team B is using a late-joining pre-promo instead, Team B can use a better unit in the shitty units place instead of actually using that crappy guy up until the pre-promo joins. Team B is obviously better off. Canas vs Pent or something like that exemplifies this perfectly.

Here, that isnt the case. Chapters 2 through 5 are forced deployment and your entire team is on the map. Theres no one better thats being put on the bench in order for Thany to be put on the field. Shes there no matter what you do, and the fact that she can indeed contribute something during these chapters is therefore better than Oujay contributing nothing to them at all. Then you get to Ch 6 and axes disappear until Oujay joins, so that Thanys no longer sucking or any crap like that, as clearly shown by the fact that she competes with Lance (the top ranked unit or atleast always considered top tier) on even levels.

All of the shit you just said would be cool if you didn't talk about Thany doing a bunch of carrying and shit instead of fighting. Her offense, as shown by me demontrating her performance against a basic enemy in Chapter 5 at level 5, is abysmal due to her durability being bottom tier to the point where many enemies kill her in one hit. How is she gaining enough EXP to shoot from level 1 to 8 in chapters 2, 3, 4, and 5 when there are so many bows and axes around and she's carrying people and performing other tasks instead of fighting?

Your levels for her and Lance are plain bullshit. Lance will have a significant level lead on her. Lance should be higher than 8 and she should be lower than 8. I can't really argue about a wrong comparison.

Okay, so Lance, often considered the best unit and always, always considered to be top tier at the least, needs a level lead over Thany to have better combat than her? Thanks for pointing that out, its exactly what I was arguing in the first place. I dont see how that fact doesnt prove that her combat doesnt suck.

---

Ch 2:

Problem 1: Wolt and Bors are 100% worthless and can go do this shopping for you instead of Merlinus. Merlinus can get the Armourslayer himself and get to the second set of forts in a total of 8 turns. You're telling me you're clearing out all of those enemies and at Rude by then?

Wolt and Bors 100% worthless? No, thats not even close to being true.

A significant number of the enemies here are loldiers so that Bors doesnt fail at life, and Wolts free chip damage is undeniably useful. Wolt is actually better than someone like Roy against the loldiers since he can 2RKO without taking a counter. Bors isnt quite 2HKOing on loldiers, but everyone else takes out over half their Hp, so he might as well be. Bors + anyone else is enough to kill a loldier. Bors is actually arguable against someone like Lance when youre fighting them, since his Def is so much higher and hes not getting doubled. L3 Lance has 6-7 Def vs L1 Bors with 11. Bors takes 3-4 damage while Lance takes about twice as much.

Also, your unit count is still very low, so it cant be argued that these units wont attack due to getting crowded out by having a large number of PCs in a confined space, as is the case in Ch 4 and 5. Theyre obviously able to make combat contributions, and since theyre not even mounted, sending them backwards at the start will severely if not completely kill their ability to provide these contributions.

Merlinus is the only unit in the chapter who is actually worthless in combat and has nothing better to do. Thany allows you to use of all your available combat units while still getting the armorslayer where it needs to be ASAP. Sure, you can get shit done without her, but it doesnt change the fact that shes helpful and gets everything done faster. Not to mention distributing shopping supplies in general at the end of the Ch 2, where there's nothing better to do since everyone not named Dieck fails against the boss, as opposed to the start of Ch 3, where there's enemies to be killed and ground to be covered. This cant be replicated at all.

I just blitzkreig'd with my best weapons and even abused Marcus and tried to progress as quickly as possible and Merlinus was ahead of Lance even after getting the Armourslayer and moving down since the enemies delayed Lance and everyone else even with Marcus using his Silver Lance. Dieck's group didn't clear out everyone over there in that time, either. What Thany does is pointless.

The fact that youre taking a year and a half to advance on your game doesnt prove anything. This chapter has no reinforcements so its ideal to go ahead and clear it ASAP in the interest of saving turns for other chapters. Merlinus starts 7 spaces away from the armorslayer village, so even with canto, its 3 turns for him to go up, get it, and come back. Youre telling me that your main group was still camping at the start and hadnt advanced at all even on turn 4? lol. I guess if youre dragging the chapter out for no reason, what Thany does is useless, but if youre actually trying to finish quickly (as you should here) then thats not the case.

And dont bother trying to argue that Merlinus can get the armorslayer, visit the armory, then turn around and still keep up. Its nearly 8 turns just for him to reach the first fort with that. I assume you werent going to try and argue this, but just in case.

Problem 3: Carrying Lot hurts your team by not letting him fight and it hurts Lot by not letting him gain EXP.

He has nothing better to do at the end of the chapter. The last two enemies before the boss are just an archer and a fighter, he doesnt excel against them and they can easily be killed by others, and hes worthless against the boss. Indeed, the majority of your units are useless against the boss, so they dont have anything better to do than to focus on cleaning up those last two generics while Thany and Lot head over the mountain to Merlinus.

Youre not missing out on any Exp opportunities, and Lot gets to build extra support points and possibly pick up more supplies to distribute. How is it not a good idea?

---

Ch 5:

Unfortunately for both you and Thany, I just got done playing that chapter, so I can tell you a few things about it. First of all, there are several Nomads that one-shot her and they have ~100 Hit before counting her Evd, and she ain't rockin' no 50+ Evd right now, so... This chapter is also absolute teeming with axe users. There are many axe using reinforcements on top of the starting ones. How is Thany of any value here? One group can cut through the forests and use them to never be hit. One group can ignore the forests and go get that gate unlocked.

Yeah, there a couple nomads at the start that can be problematic for Thany. Again, she has similarly large advantages which other units have no answer to. Again, look at that section of the forests and the group of enemy mercs that are near it. How is someone like Lot doing compared to Thany in that part of the map when youre fighting those mercs?

L6 Lot w/ iron axe: 15.9 Atk, 80.25 Hit, 3.45 Crit, 8 AS----31.4 Hp, 5.2 Def, 18.9 Avo, 2.9 CEV

L6 Thany w/ slim/iron lance: 9.5/12.5 Atk, 101.6/91.6 Hit, 9.4/4.4 Crit, 15/11 AS----19.3 Hp, 6.5 Def, 38/30 Avo, 8 CEV

The mercs have 26-30 Avo so Lots hit against them is below 50, giving Thanys offense pretty much an auto-win here, and the lower leveled one can get 11 AS allowing Thany to double with the slim lance. They also have 6-7 crit and double Lot so he gets completely owned defensively. If he lets them attack him, he can get one-rounded. Its just as bad as Thany with the nomads earlier in the chapter.

Nope, actually it isnt, its worse. Thany still has use during that section since its possible for her to attack enemies without getting hit by the nomads on enemy phase. She can toss a javelin from a peak or behind other PCs at the one or two mercs near the start, or even at one of the steel axe fighters, their Avo is low and unlike Lot her Skl/Lck are decent so she still has over 50 hit on them even using the javelin at WTD.

She can even attack something at melee range, even one of the nomads after most of the melee enemies have been cleared out since they cant counter her. Afterwards it is possible to use rescue/drop to remove her from enemy range, or simply move units ahead of her to block spaces from which an enemy would be able to attack her. When theres only a few enemies left and the nomads wont survive to the enemy phase, you can obviously have her attack. Its entirely possible to have her attack and still prevent the nomads from hitting her on enemy phase. At very worst, she can use rescue + canto to move people around and be useful even without attacking.

In the case of Lot vs mercs he just gets totally assraped and its a bad idea to have him do anything at all. If he tries to use the hand axe from behind other units hell just miss and hurt Combat and gain no Exp, and if he attacks at melee range hes likely to whiff and can get one-rounded by the counterattack. And even if it were a good idea to have him attacking here, he cant get to the front to do it. That section of the map is crowded as hell due to it being a narrow passageway, filled with forests, and there being like 14 units on the field. Only a few units in the very front are getting to attack at a time. Thany however can fly directly over all the forests and attack from squares that none of your land units can even reach, contributing damage without taking up one of those valuable spots near the front of the group. And these are mercs which arent one-rounding her or anything stupid like that, so having her contribute damage is obviously helpful.

And dont complain that this is skewing things because I picked an axe user vs sword enemies. Youre harping on a flier against bow enemies, youre doing the exact same thing. And Thanys mobility advantage still applies regardless. Even if Lot didnt suck at fighting these enemies, hes still taking a tile which other units behind him couldve been using instead. Thany isnt. Shed still be better here.

Stating that Thany is worse than some of your other attackers is one thing, but dont pretend that her combat isnt useful or contributes nothing. Note that atleast half of the games undisputed god tiersAlan, Lance, Rutger, Dieckjoin early and hence Thany losing to them still doesnt prove that she isnt useful. Not that it matters since, as I posted above, Thany even existing in this part of the game is helpful.

---

Ch 4:

There is a Nomad right across those rivers, and then more nomads, and then archers, and then axe d00ds start coming from the south. What is she doing with that mobility? Moving out to go die?

Again, its perfectly possible to have her contributing damage using the strategies described above. Although honestly during this section, shes probably better put to use rescuing/dropping other units with better offense like Lugh or something, so that they dont get raped by nomads on enemy phase. Until most of the enemies are dead at which point youre going to surround and/or kill the remaining nomads before the end of the player phase; its safe and helpful for her to go across the river and attack nomads on that phase.

Either way, shes obviously helpful.

Then you get to other sections of the map which are much less gay since you dont have nomads with 7 move running around covering half the map. And she was clearly useful and able to contribute even with those faggots present.

---

Ch 7:

All of the houses on the right are guarded by Archers and Knights. Things that one-shot her, and other things she can't damage.

Yeah, she cant solo that side of the map, big surprise. Obviously shell have help in clearing out enemies that are too numerous to be handled by any single unit except like Marcus or something. The point is that either way, whenever you decide to grab houses, she can get them and still keep up with the action much better than anyone else can. She can get a house and then go directly upward over its roof and be able to attack a large number of enemies on the next turn. If someone like Dieck had to do it instead, hed be stuck wasting half his movement going around the house before he can even start to go up, and wouldnt even be able to get past the house 1 turn after visting it, while Thany can end her turn on the other side of the house on the same turn that she visits it.

No, they don't. I just got done with that chapter. Sending Marcus and Dieck up the right quickly lets you clear a path to Zealot in one turn. Roy talks to Noah. Noah gets Zealot. Zealot gets Treck. All in one turn, baby. Then you can move Treck and Noah to forests and they're relatively safe and Zealot can go rape shit. Thany rescues them? That eats up three turns (hers, then hers and theirs) and she loses almost half her Evd and stuff in that chapter can one-shot her, so...

You had to use the two highest level units to accomplish this strat. If Thany makes another strat viable which takes 1 or 2 turns longer to do it, but still results in saving Treck/Zealot, while getting more Exp due to not having to abuse Dieck and lolMarcus to get it done, then shes obviously still doing something useful for you here.

It's a case where the validity of the two options is difficult to weigh without a video or something, but at the very least your own personal experience hardly debunks Thanys potential to be useful here. If thats all youve got, then my counter is simply that I did indeed use Thany to rescue Zea1337 on my game. So what? Its possible to S Rank HHM without recruiting Raven. The fact that its possible to do it without Thany doesnt change anything. Theres probably like 20 different ways to accomplish it. This doesnt change the fact that she brings a unique option to the table, is clearly more helpful here than all but maybe 2 or 3 other units, and has the potential to help you out in this situation.

---

Ch 8:

The problem with this is that carrying any unit but Roy doesn't speed up the chapter. Roy must reach Leygance's throne and seize it. Are your mounted units carrying everyone instead of fighting or something? Also; Zealot, Marcus, Noah, Treck, Lance, and Alan can do that carrying and dropping stuff, except they have existing HP/Def stats and no weakness to bows.

So? You can and will carry Roy ofcourse, precisely because yes, he has to seize. Carrying other units helps them get to the enemies faster aswell, hence allowing you to kill the enemies sooner which allows you to move forward past the enemies sooner.

Have you seen Ch 8? Youre not carrying people instead of fighting here. Rather, youre carrying people during sections of the map where theres nothing to fight, and thus ferrying is obviously beneficial so that more units can keep up with your mounts. There are 13-14 tile gaps from one group of enemies to the next that are just totally empty and have nothing in them; even your mounts need 2 turns to cross that, so its obviously helpful to use rescue/move again/drop to help some foot units cross that empty space at the same rate as your mounts.

And since theres no enemies and no fighting during those sections, higher Hp/Def and no bow weakness or w/e else for those other mounts is irrelevant. Thany being able to ignore pillars on the other hand is still relevant since those exist here.

After Oujay Joins

Cool how most of the debaet doesn't even involve Oujay. I don't mind though. If this section were longer things would start to really get tl;dr.

---

Thanys level:

I will concede that her carrying and stuff like that can save a few turns here and there, but she's not putting out any combat utility at all, and that's how you gain EXP, so is she ever gaining levels?

You forget that the reason Thany is being used to get this shit done faster is to save turns for abusing late reinforcements or easily setting up kills however you want to due to having turn surpluses later, both of which Thany gets to participate in, especially considering that shes mostly the reason why its possible (or more possible than it would be without her).

This isnt FE7 where youre trying to 7 and 8 turn chapters alot of the time. FE6 Tactics having very high requirements means that Thany can do non-combat stuff for a significant portion of a chapter and still manage to fit in alot of fighting. Ch 6 has a 20 turn requirement; if she spends 5 turns rescuing and carrying and shit and saving turns, then spends the rest fighting, then she still gets a large amount of fighting in. She obviously still has opportunities to gain Exp while still saving some turns earlier in the chapter, and thus making it possible for the whole team to spend even more turns fighting and getting kills later.

Theres nearly 30 brigands that show up as reinforcements on Ch 5 from turn 12 through 20, and many of them are isolated and alone when they spawn, meaning that they pose no significant threat to a group of 3-4 PCs camping their spawn and waiting to gangrape them. Those kills can be set up for nearly anyone that you want them to go to. Those brigands have 8 AS at most and 28-30 Hp/3-5 Def. A level 7 Thany (11.8 Atk, 11.6 AS) can double nearly all of them with the iron lance and can 2RKO any of them that didnt get 5 Def, or even some of the ones that did if her Str is 6 or 7.

Loldiers in Ch 2 have no Spd and an awesome 1-2 Def. Base level Thany with an iron lance easily 2RKOs them and theres a significant number of them. In Ch 3 loldiers outnumber everything else on the map by far. Out of the number of enemies initially present on the map in Ch 3, theres more loldiers than there is everything else combined. 13 loldiers vs 2 cavs, 2 fighters, 2 archers, 3 knights.

Is she better than your other units at fighting these enemies? Maybe not, but its ridiculous to assert that she cant even gain Exp.

---

How is this possible!? Where is she gaining 1,000 EXP from!? Her offense and durability are abysmal and you had her running around doing tons of shit. When was she fighting? What was she fighting to gain 1,000 EXP? Even if she gained a full 30 EXP per kill, she'd need 33.3 kills to reach that level. I can't debate if you just overinflate your unit's level for no reason. She's not getting ~40 kills before Oujay joins while performing those tasks you assigned to her.

Not all of the tasks assigned are resulting in her not getting to fight or get kills. She has tons of flexibility in where she can move after getting a house in Ch 7; she can easily be positioned to still counter something on enemy phase after doing this. In Ch 8 youre using her to ferry during linear sections that dont even have enemies at all. She wouldnt be fighting anything while crossing those areas anyway. Etc.

You may not have considered just how many enemies FE6 throws at you. Ch 5 alone throws around 50 non-boss enemies at you including reinforcements. Ch 6 has 51 enemies including all reinforcements and not including Cath or the boss. And so forth, and so on. For her to get 40 kills from Ch 2 through most of Ch 8 is slightly more than 5 kills per chapter, which is reasonable or nearly so if kills are divided evenly between a ~10 man team. Especially since thats without accounting for additional Exp received from just injuring enemies, which adds up when no one is one-rounding. Theres also the possibility of a boss kill (yeah, I know a boss kill is only reasonable on Ch 6, but its still there).

Simply claiming that the levels given are ridiculous is not convincing on its own. Its cool to question ones premises, but you need to also explain why the premises are questionable. If all you do is question without actually showing why the other guy is wrong, then you havent presented any actual evidence to support your side of the argument. This argument I assume stems from the fact that you dont get levels like this when you play the game, but as is well known, even if thats the case its irrelevant on its own. This isnt a counter-argument.

You also failed at providing an accurate picture of what you think the situation should actually look like. I assume this is because you realized that even if you take a couple levels off of Thany, it doesnt matter. Oujays still getting the dick anyways.

Base Oujay: 7 Atk, 23 Hit, 5 Crit, 9 Spd----24 Hp, 4 Def, 0 Res, 24 Avo

9 Thany B Lot B Dieck: 9.4 Atk, 35.7 Hit, 20.2 Crit, 16.7 Spd----20.6 Hp, 8.8 Def, 9 Res, 53.2 Avo (o_O)

Thany: +2.4 Atk, +12.7 Hit, +15.2 Crit, +7.7 Spd, +4.8 Def, +9 Res, +29.2 Avo

Oujay: +3.4 Hp

Awesome. We took away a couple levels from Thany, and it went from Oujay getting raped with a buzzsaw to Oujay getting raped with a jackhammer.

You're also telling me that Thany ended her turn next to Dieck and Lott 55 times each in the chapters before Oujay joins? Wasn't she trying to speed things up? If she's builing supports like that, you're taking your sweet time, thus negating this speeding up stuff you're talking about.

Thany speeding shit up isnt reducing the total number of turns you spend during the game. Theres no reason to go under the S rank requirements. Its reducing the number of turns you spend doing errands and stuff on the side like moving ahead, getting chests, getting houses, etc.; this is done so that you can spend more turns concentrating on fighting (notably late reinforcements) and squeezing the most out of your kills. Thanys increasing your turncount flexibility just makes supports easier to build, since it gives you more room to slow down and focus on supports later in the chapter.

Anyways, its approximately 145 turns from Ch 2 through 8x for S rank. 55 turns is barely over 33% of the time. Even from Ch 2 through 8, its still less than half of the time. Why wouldn't this be viable? Its around the usual amount that people consider viable in general discussion. It seems pretty clear that this can happen in Ch 9 at worst, definitely in time for the Isles.

Ah, and what you did for Oujay's supports is downright silly, good sir. Oujay had 14 chapters to build his support with Lalum. It takes 120 turns for them to have a B. 120 turns in 14 chapters that are longer than the ones Thany had with Dieck/Lott makes significantly more sense than Thany getting 55 turns in 7 much smaller chapters. Favortism much?

I simply used the levels and support ranks that you gave in your comparison. Ofcourse if my opponent thinks his unit should receive only X amount of a resource, I will not advocate supplying the unit with a greater amount without the opponent first presenting an argument why or atleast pointing out the inconsistency. Its not my job to defend something until the opponent points it out.

Speaking of, I wont defend this. Its totally inconsistent. I was just hoping you wouldnt catch it.

I really don't want to do the work to correct your statistical errors. I'll just summarize my problems with your comparisons. First of all, the support stuff, as I explained twice already I believe, so I won't repeat it all here. That A with Dieck should be dropped to a C at best. There's also a problem with her supporting Dieck in terms of actually using those bonuses. Dieck, Clarine, and Rutger can go frontline and stick together and be totally invincible, but Thany is going to break that up and go be with Dieck? Is she actually using her flight to do anything or is she sticking near foot units? Why don't you have her with Tate since that makes way more sense, especially since we both seem to have no objections to KIein existing?

Youre not even going to try to dispute my combat comparisons, just because you dont agree with the support levels? That seems like a cop-out argument.

Flying away from her partners? Okay, sure. Lets consider this option. If you have Thany flying off to somewhere that foot units cant get to (or cant get to fast enough), and its so important for her to be doing this that you even separate her from her supports partners, then obviously Thany Flying Away is more useful than Thany Who Sticks Close To The Main Group. This seems pretty obvious; if it matters enough to take away supports, then TFA > TWSCTTMG.

Now, I showed that TWSCTTMG >= Oujay. So if TFA > TWSCTTMG, then it logically follows that TFA > Oujay. Its silly to take away supports because Thany is doing something so important that she leaves them, without considering that in this situation, two things are true: 1. Thany is obviously doing something important, and 2. Oujay cant do this since he doesnt fly.

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