FE4 Gen. 1 Efficiency Tier List

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

Well, well. I just started a efficiency playthrough of sorts, although I really didn't plan on it until I realized that, holy moly, I took Marpha in 11 turns and could have taken the entire first chapter in 24 turns?

First of all. ALL THE MOUNTS you get in prolouge and chapter 1 should go into high tier. There is no excuse for their current placement. There is no way that the footsoldiers are contributing more than all of them for a SIGNIFICANT portion of the playthrough.

Fin should be the highest among them. Yes, it's actually possible to have him use Prayer in the first chapter, right there against Kinobis's men. He can kill all four Brigands and an Archer, although he'll need the Speed Ring to reliably double the Archer. A trained Fin, along with Siggy, Lex, and Cuan, can team up to kill Zyne no sweat, and I get Fin up to promotion so he can bait Eltshan while I try to take Silvail in 24 or so turns.

Cuan is amazing. He turns every enemy into a bite-size morsel that anyone besdies Ethlin can gobble up, not hog EXP the in the first two chapters and he helps you protect Eve from getting ass-kicked by Elliot and co. However, if you don't raise him, he won't have the durability for you to implement the strategy.

Alec and Noish are often your main cleanup dudes after your primary hitters deal damage in Chapter 2 and they will often be the primary offense after you're primary damage guys(Sigurd, Lex, Cuan early, Lachesis late) put enemies into near death range.

Also, Ethlin should be assumed that she purchases the Relive staff in chapter 2. Aideen is not reaching your main army until the middle portion, and the guys you're facing hit hard. Ethlin heals 36 HP with Relive, which is plenty enough to restore you're main mounts to full HP.

[Aquilae]

There shouldn't be a tier gap between Fin and Cuan. Fin is pretty much on par with Cuan in every way, and has better offense due to Pursuit.

Fin beats Cuan in offense unless Cuan gets the Pursuit Ring, and even then the gap between them is minimal. Even if you give the Hero Lance to Fury, Fin still beats Cuan in offense unless the latter gets the Pursuit Ring. Considering that there is competition for it (Jamka, Noish, Dew to some extent), Cuan may not get the Pursuit Ring all the time, while Fin doesn't need as many resources to beat / tie Cuan in offense (Even with the Steel Lance, Fin does comparable numbers to Silver Lance Cuan as he has Pursuit)

Fin also has Prayer and marginally better Avoid then Cuan, although Cuan beats him in durability, and has 1 extra Move. I'm not seeing a tier gap, Fin should at least move up to Upper Mid below Fury.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

Fin beats Cuan in offense unless Cuan gets the Pursuit Ring, and even then the gap between them is minimal. Even if you give the Hero Lance to Fury, Fin still beats Cuan in offense unless the latter gets the Pursuit Ring. Considering that there is competition for it (Jamka, Noish, Dew to some extent), Cuan may not get the Pursuit Ring all the time, while Fin doesn't need as many resources to beat / tie Cuan in offense (Even with the Steel Lance, Fin does comparable numbers to Silver Lance Cuan as he has Pursuit)

Jamka has Pursuit by default. He doesn't need to buy it until the Epilogue or a similarly appropriate time in which he has the funds to spend like it's Monopoly.

[Aquilae]

I forgot about the Bowfighter innates ~_~

[_____]

So Beowulf can be allowed to use a magic sword too...right?

There are four of them. Beowulf is probably around the 5th best user of one when you consider there's Fury, Dew (Before you jump on this, it is not for combat reasons.), Holyn, and Ayra. Beowulf isn't banned from having a Magic Sword, of course, but you have to consider he's pretty bad with it.

There are times where he might want one, for instance even Sigurd gets 2-3HKOed by some of those bosses that have silvers (lances).

Silver Sword -> Heal. There's no real reason for him to hog a Javelin just for boss chipping purposes.

They are? I must be playing incorrectly then.

They aren't hard.

They just suck less than everybody else.

Even Sigurd can't 1RKO some things with just a silver and pursuit, he might actually want it too.

Such as? Armors? He can carry around a blade if he's that worried.

Noish improves significantly with a hero lance as now he can finally double and kill things sometimes.

Alec quadding > Noish doubling.

For instance:

Level 15 Noish

w/ Hero Lance - 30 MT

w/ Hero Sword - 27 MT

Level 15 Alec

w/ Hero Lance - 27 MT

w/ Hero Sword - 24 MT

Madino

- Armoured charging knights, start near Madino castle

- Axearmour L10, 50/12/1/8/6/0/13/1, Steel Axe, -12 (4)

Assumed weapon being the Hero Sword, Alec deals 44 Damage; Noish deals 28.

Madino

- Archknight army, right next to the armours above

- Archknight L8, 38/9/0/8/8/0/8/0, Steel Bow, 0 (4)

Hero Lance, both ORKO.

Madino

- Another batch of armoured knights, to the east of Augusty

- Armour L10, 50/12/1/8/6/0/13/1, Javelin, -12 (4)

Hero Lance; Alec does 56 damage (ORKO), Noish does 34.

Madino

- Lanceknights to the west of Augusty that start moving a little later

- Lanceknight L8, 38/9/0/8/8/0/8/0, Steel Lance, -4 (4)

Hero Lance; Both ORKO.

Madino

- Group of mages in the bushbush near Madino castle

- Mage L8, 34/0/9/8/8/0/1/7, Fire, -4 (4)

Both obviously ORKO with Hero weapons.

Alec can ORKO them with a Javelin, which is cool, but we're discussing Hero Weapons.

Madino

- Madino's castle guards

- Swordarmour L12, 52/12/1/8/6/0/13/1, Steel Sword, 3 (3)

- Lancearmour L13, 53/12/1/8/6/0/13/1, Steel Lance, -6 (2)

- Bowarmour L11, 51/12/1/8/6/0/13/1, Steel Bow, -2 (2)

- Mage L15, 41/1/11/10/10/0/2/9, Fire, -2 (2)

- Bishop L18, 53/1/15/13/10/0/4/13, Reserve, 10 (1)

Hero Lance for all; Alec deals 56, 56, 56, 100(!), and 92 damage respectively (all ORKOs), whiles Noish deals 34, 34, 34, 56, and 52 damage respectively.

I can continue if you'd like, but it seems pretty obvious to me that Alec quadding is much better than Noish doubling.

Fury has the greatest chance to quadruple things with it too and she can go from 2-3HKOs to guaranteed 1RKOs on any generic except for bosses.

Indeed, Fury is better with it, but she does not have exclusive rights to it.

So I disagree here. Even so Fin and Cuan don't leave until chapter 3's end so they may want to use it too which only limits say Alec's time with it meaning he's stuck being bad at combat.

2-3RKOing is not bad. A majority of your units, Cuan and Levin included, are 2RKOing.

Below stuff stopped becoming relevant, but I'll address it anyway in case you want to continue arguing it.

I disagree. Proving that Alec is actually good in the earlygame is very relevant.

He gets hit twice by Aira and gets put to like 3 HP then runs away, this doesn't make him the second best character in this chapter.

That was the extra note at the end, not why he was good in Chapter 1.

Noish can too, which says how bad these enemies are. So can Fin, Cuan, Lex, Ethlin (with light sword), Sigurd, and any foot unit except Arden, Deu, and Adean.

How high/top tier units like Fin, Cuan, Lex, and Sigurd fare against enemies has no bearing on how well Alec does against them.

For the record, Noish's offense is rather bad against these enemies, and foot soldiers can't reach them in time.

Fin has high 90 hit rates against those Axe fighters and he is able to 1RKO the 36 HP ones and 2RKO those 45HP ones.

Finn has 21 MT with his Iron Lance. He 2RKOs both types of Axe Fighters.

Fin has better offense against everything except he archers (hunters?) where he can't double, but can with the speed ring.

Alec 2RKOs the 36 HP Axe Fighters, though he does 4~RKO the 45 HP ones, admittedly.

However, Alec's durability is much better.

Don't believe me? play chapter 1 and the prologue again. Those Axes weigh the enemies down a lot.

Finn can double. I realize this.

Fin can switch to a Steel lance in chapter 1 since Cuan goes from 2RKOing with a steel to 2RKOing with an iron. While Fin goes from 2RKOing to 1RKOing from the switch.

Actually, with Iron, Cuan 3RKOs 45 HP Axers. Finn can probably still grab his Steel Lance, but it does gimp Cuan's offense a bit.

With steel Lex can 2HKO most things provided he's at a reasonable level and he is at better durability.

Even with Elite, Lex is gaining maybe one level in the Prologue. In Chapter 1, he then has the same MT as Cuan. He can 2RKO the weaker enemies, but he's 3RKOing until he gains a few levels.

You mention that Lex is more durable but forget to mention that Alec has WTA, higher avoid, and the ability to use the forests to his advantage. Alec is nearly invincible, while Lex takes axes to the face.

I'm pretty sure that Azel is actually better in the arena than Alec due to being able to get past those armor units if he gets 1 lucky dodge. In the arena offense is more important than durability.

The Armors in Chapters 1 and 2 appear after the Swordfighters, who slaughter Azel.

Of course, outside of the Arena, Azel loses easily.

Jamuka is good because he has good player phase and decent durability outside of that

No mount and no enemy phase. His player phase can be as good as he'd like, but it won't make up for his shortcomings.

Midir is decent even without the killer bow and is at least as good player phase as Alec with Iron

I hate to be redundant, but no enemy phase.

his arena time is also much easier to manage (and charge lets him 1RKo sometimes).

The ranged arena is easier than the normal arena for the most part, sure. It doesn't have much bearing on Midir vs. Alec.

Ethlin gains 35EXP a pop from Return

We have no need to Return anyone until Levin in Chapter 2.

has access to all of Cuan's money (since Cuan gets his weapons for free and is actually good in the arena)

This is true.

can access the arena

And be absolutely awful at it. Worse than Azel, mind you.

and is basically useless once you have to pass that forest in chapter 1, this means he has like ~20 turns of being useless so you might as well gain her 7 levels during this time.

You're kidding, right?

Forests in chapter 1 make Foot units better to get to that army at the final castle and Jamka easier than horses.

Forests give Foot Soldiers and unmounted units the same move; it does not make foot soldiers better.

Chapter 2 is only rushing at the beginning and at some point your units will need to meet back at Nodian when the last 2 castles stop being neutral.

This is an efficiency tier list. If rushing is possible, we will rush. The Free Knights are easy enough that rushing towards them to shave off turns is probably our best bet.

Chapter 2 is not the whole game too.

We've covered everything prior to Chapter 2, Chapter 2, and Chapter 3. We can go into Chapter 4 and 5 next.

Prologue: Alec is decent, but unremarkable(better than Azel, Arden, and Noish. About as good as Midir. Worse than Fin, Lex, Cuan, Sigurd, Ethlin)

Alec is better than Fin, Midir, Lex, and Ethlin if you don't count her healing, which I guess is a pretty stupid thing to do. He's still one of the better units you have. We've been over this.

Chapter 1: Alec is decent until Gandalf dies and then becomes pretty useless for the last castle

He becomes as "useless" as every other character you have, which means his "uselessness" is not a negative.

Chapter 2: Alec>Beowulf (due to being there longer)

Among other reasons.

Chapter 3: Beowulf>Alec

I'm inclined to disagree. Alec has access to both Hero Weapons at this point, while Beo has to try to grab the Sword from the grubby paws of 9 other units, and Alec has his Horseslayer duty with the Cross Knights. Beo's probably better against the Orgahill pirates, but they're jokes.

Chapter 4: Beowulf promotes and is>>than Alec, Then Alec promotes and Beowulf is just >Alec

Beo promoting any time much earlier than Alec is ridiculous. Even if your claim of better combat turns out to be true, it will gives Beowulf maybe around a one or two level lead.

Chapter 5: Both are promoted and Beowulf is still>than Alec

More mounted units rush you, and both are useless in the desert.

Your turn.

[chrysalid]

6 move foot units move 3 tiles per turn in forest.

Unpromoted 8 move mounted units move 2 tiles per turn in forest.

If you try to move more than 1-2 mounted units that aren't Sigurd or Cuan through Jamka's forest you'll just cause a traffic jam.

[_____]

The only 6 move units in Chapter 1 are Ayra and Jamka, though. Jamka is half-way through already and Ayra is probably way behind all of your other units.

[chrysalid]

Yup, but that doesn't mean having the whole unpromoted mounted unit herd trying to squeeze through that 1-tile aperture at 2 tiles per turn speed is gonna accomplish anything. Lex has to get the hero axe and getting more mounted units up into the thicket gets increasingly difficult, and they're only going to get to the fight when there are only a couple of archers left. Ethlin might as well ride a Warp back home. I think Dew is unhittable by those archers when he's in Sigurd's leadership zone so he's OK for walling off their access to Deirdre, and for stealing.

[Salad Utensil]

I'm not even going to bother arguing to that giant wall of text nor a single point directly.

Ok look half the thing we've been arguing lost relevance when we've been comparing Alec to units that had not point to be there. Lets start afresh these are my arguments against Alec>Beowulf.

+Beowulf has a marginal statistical advantage over Alec before promotion.

-Alec has ACCESS to C ranked lances before promotion, but is not guaranteed to get them and to me seems like sandbagging if you let him have the Knight killer and the Javelin while Beowulf gets nothing. If you want to make this fairer Beowulf gets the armor cutter and a magic sword. There is no best candidate for a weapon since this is almost opinion based, unless you prove distinctly that Alec with 141434 awesome weapons>>>>>>> Someone else with those weapons too. Noish improves significantly with Hero lance, Knight Killer, Hero sword, power ring, pursuit ring, and light sword. Even he is better than Beowulf when he is just limited to his steel sword.

-Alec is better than Beowulf in Chapter 1 and Prologue, but don't make it seem like he better than he actually is.

+Beowulf wins statistically and skillz wise chapter 2 onward, Chapter 2,3,4,5 are harder than chapter 1 and P

+Beowulf promotes and gains A swords. Any blade and Continue>>>>B lances and B swords (except hero lance)

I'm going to assume normal weapons for both of them and that is how I made my opinion on this comparison because trading works vastly differently in this game compared to others. Having access to weapons means that getting them means you incur the opportunity cost of taking them away from other characters (damn I used an Econ reference). Treat them like stat boosters since they are more similar to that than actually weapons in other games. Herolance!Alec means that he is awesome and Noish is completely useless. Hero lance Noish! means both of them are usable and your team will benefit more overall.

Being decent in 2 easier shorter chapters < being better in 4 harder chapters

-even if it is marginally.

-Its not like Beowulf has FE5 Galzus availability so don't think that it is a large enough issue to warrant Alec having the higher position.

BTW this is my last post on this issue since I have to do my homework now and work on my college essays, so just consider the possible change and if you don't want to make the change its OK since I didn't argue very well. If someone else agrees they will just continue the argument someday later if its not changed now. You don't have to waste time making a response as I won't push the issue beyond this post. It was fun arguing with you :P

[_____]

Yup, but that doesn't mean having the whole unpromoted mounted unit herd trying to squeeze through that 1-tile aperture at 2 tiles per turn speed is gonna accomplish anything. Lex has to get the hero axe and getting more mounted units up into the thicket gets increasingly difficult, and they're only going to get to the fight when there are only a couple of archers left. Ethlin might as well ride a Warp back home. I think Dew is unhittable by those archers when he's in Sigurd's leadership zone so he's OK for walling off their access to Deirdre, and for stealing.

Oh, I certainly wouldn't send everyone through that one-space corridor.

Ok look half the thing we've been arguing lost relevance when we've been comparing Alec to units that had not point to be there.

It wasn't irrelevant. I was quantifying my claim of Alec being one of your better units in the Prologue and Chapter 1, which matters greatly.

+Beowulf has a marginal statistical advantage over Alec before promotion.

Which were never proven to matter.

-Alec has ACCESS to C ranked lances before promotion, but is not guaranteed to get them and to me seems like sandbagging if you let him have the Knight killer and the Javelin while Beowulf gets nothing. If you want to make this fairer Beowulf gets the armor cutter and a magic sword. There is no best candidate for a weapon since this is almost opinion based, unless you prove distinctly that Alec with 141434 awesome weapons>>>>>>> Someone else with those weapons too. Noish improves significantly with Hero lance, Knight Killer, Hero sword, power ring, pursuit ring, and light sword. Even he is better than Beowulf when he is just limited to his steel sword.

We aren't looking at being fair here. If we were arguing Ardan vs. Tiltyu, we wouldn't assume that Ardan gets the Armor Cutter, the Hero Sword, and a Prayer Sword using that glitch just because Tiltyu has Tron. I'm not assuming that Alec can get any crazy amount of rings, or anything like that. He has access to both the Hero Sword and the Hero Lance, unlike Beo, and he also has access to the Javelin and the Knight Killer, the latter of which nobody really cares about. C and B lances matter more than you made it seem.

-Alec is better than Beowulf in Chapter 1 and Prologue, but don't make it seem like he better than he actually is.

I haven't made anybody seem better than they actually are. Alec is one of the better units you have in the Chapters prior to 2, which I've proven.

+Beowulf wins statistically and skillz wise chapter 2 onward, Chapter 2,3,4,5 are harder than chapter 1 and P

The difficulty of a chapter has no bearing on this.

Alec wins Chapter 2 for existing the entire time.

Alec has ways to catch up to Beowulf's marginally better combat, such as the Knight Killer for the Cross Knights and other assorted mounted units.

Alec has Javelin access in Chapter 4, which is great even if he doesn't double with it. Beo could have a Magic Sword, but against Mages, it loses to the Javelin. Beo is probably better against Pegasi, but Pamela's sqaud has Javelins, so...

Chapter 5 has more mounted units and then the second half is a desert.

If Beowulf does have a lead in any of these chapters, it is not significant enough to matter.

+Beowulf promotes and gains A swords. Any blade and Continue>>>>B lances and B swords (except hero lance)

But, you see, B Lances basically is the Hero Lance. One could argue that the extra 4 MT from a Steel Lance is helpful, but the Hero Lance is the main point of B lances, and the Hero Lance > Any blade with Charge.

I'm going to assume normal weapons for both of them and that is how I made my opinion on this comparison because trading works vastly differently in this game compared to others. Having access to weapons means that getting them means you incur the opportunity cost of taking them away from other characters (damn I used an Econ reference). Treat them like stat boosters since they are more similar to that than actually weapons in other games. Herolance!Alec means that he is awesome and Noish is completely useless. Hero lance Noish! means both of them are usable and your team will benefit more overall.

I believe that I've already shown how a Hero Weapon for Alec is not unlikely, and how his quadding > Noish's doubling.

Being decent in 2 easier shorter chapters < being better in 4 harder chapters

-even if it is marginally.

-Its not like Beowulf has FE5 Galzus availability so don't think that it is a large enough issue to warrant Alec having the higher position.

Being good in 2 chapters and then comparing to Beowulf in the chapters that follow > Beo.

BTW this is my last post on this issue since I have to do my homework now and work on my college essays, so just consider the possible change and if you don't want to make the change its OK since I didn't argue very well. If someone else agrees they will just continue the argument someday later if its not changed now. You don't have to waste time making a response as I won't push the issue beyond this post. It was fun arguing with you :P

Fair enough.

[Jaybee]

Just checking, why is Holyn so high when he doesn't have a horse nor a holy weapon?

[Salad Utensil]

Just checking, why is Holyn so high when he doesn't have a horse nor a holy weapon?

He is very durable, has good offense, comes with good bases, uses swords, has good skillz, his main weakness is probably not having a horse nor holy weapon.

[_____]

For reference purposes, I've put all of the arguments mentioned so far in the first post. ~_~

[grandjackal]

The old one is long dead, so this might as well be posted again. I'll just Copy-Paste from Genesis. By the way, let's keep the squabbling about efficiency out of this topic, alright? I'm tired of reading it in every other tier topic.

[spoiler="The Tier List]

Sigurd Tier

Sigurd

Hero Axe Tier

Lex

High Tier

Holyn

Sylvia

Levin

Midir

Jamka

Ayra

Briggid

Ethlin

Upper Mid Tier

Lachesis

Cuan

Fury

Lower Mid Tier

Fin

Alec

Beowulf

Noish

Adeen

Dew

Claude

Azel

Low Tier

Tiltyu

Deidre

Arden

Spoiler tag'd for your convenience.

OK, let's go this one by one.

-Why's Midir under Levin? Horse, brave and/or killer bow with Duel, a great big availability win...Levin has a lot of things going for him, but big deal. No horse and Midir's possible weapons make him quite versatile with them thanks to hit and run tactics. It's great that Levin can counter more often, but you need to be on the front lines to do that, and guess who's not there so often? So Levin can tear up the arena better, big deal. Levin's one trademark is probably Holsety on Leptor and Langbalt, but otherwise I wouldn't be readily able enough to declare that better than Midir basically doing more to get us there in the first place.

-Is the only reason Fury not in high due to availability?

-Why are Cuan and Fin a tier apart?

-Dual+Utility weapon availability (Wing Clipper, Armorslayer)>Alec's availability, because Beowulf can actually do something other than mopping up.

-Diedre Silencing Sandima and Clement (no having to deal with Fenrir or Sleep)>Tiltyu failing.

-Arden actually being able to do something in Prologue or chapter 3 (Cross Knights, I doubt anyone who wants the pursuit ring quite has the dough for it, Arden wields swords and is decently durable while they wield javelins, he's of SOME use here)>Tiltyu failing.

[_____]

-Is the only reason Fury not in high due to availability?

That's certainly the main reason, but I'm sure there are others. For instance, her Chapter 3 performance is a bit lacking.

-Why are Cuan and Fin a tier apart?

Someone already brought that up. I'll switch them around.

-Dual+Utility weapon availability (Wing Clipper, Armorslayer)>Alec's availability, because Beowulf can actually do something other than mopping up.

Alec can use those two and the Knight Killer. I don't see your point.

-Diedre Silencing Sandima and Clement (no having to deal with Fenrir or Sleep)>Tiltyu failing.

Another thing I was about to change.

-Arden actually being able to do something in Prologue or chapter 3 (Cross Knights, I doubt anyone who wants the pursuit ring quite has the dough for it, Arden wields swords and is decently durable while they wield javelins, he's of SOME use here)>Tiltyu failing.

Ardan is useless in Chapter 3. Everyone and their mother wants the Pursuit Ring and he's probably still around base level since he's gained almost nothing. However, I'm inclined to raise him just because of his Prologue performance. Tiltyu has nothing to counter it.

[grandjackal]

That's certainly the main reason, but I'm sure there are others. For instance, her Chapter 3 performance is a bit lacking.

Can bypass terrain to get around enemies the easiest (notably, the armor knights guarding Silvail), can hit and run the wyvern knights after Sivail falls, and is the reason Claude isnt' depending on Tiltyu's fail to get by. It's nothing on the levels of great performance right after, but it's not quite lacking.

Alec can use those two and the Knight Killer. I don't see your point.

I really do need to double check things...

Ardan is useless in Chapter 3. Everyone and their mother wants the Pursuit Ring and he's probably still around base level since he's gained almost nothing. However, I'm inclined to raise him just because of his Prologue performance. Tiltyu has nothing to counter it.

True that everyone wants the pursuit ring, question is do they have the 40k required to take it off him? If no one has the money, why take it off him? It improves his arena performance vastly (because swords are light enough even HE can double quite often there), which shows he won't exactly be around base level by chapter 3. Unless someone has the money to buy it off him by then, he has no reason to sell the ring. Which case, he would be of some use against the Cross Knights in chapter 3.

Let's review who wants the ring.

-Cuan vanishes like right after

-As does Ethlin

-Lex doesn't give a shit, he's already got the Hero Axe

-Noish blows worse than Arden in the arena due to worse durability, as both are sort of in the same situation offensively (outside of Berserk, which he needs a lot of luck to pull off thanks to his shitty Skill).

-Lachesis can't possibly have the money by now.

-lolDew

-Again, Levin probably doesn't have the money quite yet

-Upon arrival, Tiltyu's now in the same class as Arden, that being the "I will never get in range to hit anything ever again". At least Arden was around where the maps were SOMEWHAT nice to footsoldiers.

[chrysalid]

What's the "rule set" for using the arena in this tier list? I find Noish does pretty well, but then I don't mind letting him fight from 1 hp while holding down a turbo button and a frameskip key until he crit-OHKOs a few low-HP units (like the various swordfighters and mages).

[Aquilae]

Pursuit Ring lets Cuan ORKO stuff with the Silver Lance, which vastly improves his performance, and he can sell it off before the end of the chapter.

@chrysalid That's perfectly fine.

[_____]

Can bypass terrain to get around enemies the easiest (notably, the armor knights guarding Silvail), can hit and run the wyvern knights after Sivail falls, and is the reason Claude isnt' depending on Tiltyu's fail to get by. It's nothing on the levels of great performance right after, but it's not quite lacking.

Forgot about those Wyverns, but the rest is pretty bland. She reaches Silvail much faster than everyone else. That's a better reason than attacking the Armor Knights.

-Cuan vanishes like right after

Cuan has enough money to buy it, and it means he doesn't have to rely on Continue for half of Chapter 2 and Chapter 3.

-As does Ethlin

-Lex doesn't give a shit, he's already got the Hero Axe

True.

-Noish blows worse than Arden in the arena due to worse durability, as both are sort of in the same situation offensively (outside of Berserk, which he needs a lot of luck to pull off thanks to his shitty Skill).

Level 13 Noish - 41 HP, 12 Defense, 0 Res

w/ Steel Sword - 25 MT, 80 Hit, 7 AS, 40 Avoid

w/ Iron Lance - 27 MT, 80 Hit, -2 AS, 22 Avoid

w/ Slim Sword - 23 MT, 90 Hit, 9 AS, 44 Avoid

Level 6 Ardan - 38 HP, 14 Defense, 0 Res

w/ Steel Sword - 24 MT, 70 Hit, 1 AS, 25 Avoid

w/ Slim Sword - 22 MT, 80 Hit, 3 AS, 29 Avoid

I added the +20 arena avoid bonuses to their Avoid/Hit.

Against the Chapter 3 Arena with the Pursuit Ring:

- Ardan 3HKOs the first opponent without doubling at 60 hit. He is 8HKO'd in return at 71 hit. Noish 3HKOs with doubling at 70 hit. He is 6HKO'd in return at 56 hit.

- Ardan 3HKOs the second opponent with doubling at 100 hit. He is 3HKO'd in return at 43 hit. Noish 3HKOs at 100 hit. He is 3HKO'd in return at 28 hit.

- Ardan 3HKOs the third opponent without doubling at 34 hit. He is 3HKO'd while being doubled at 63 hit. Noish, with a Slim Sword, 4HKOs with doubling. He is 3HKO'd at 48 hit.

Past this point doesn't matter. Ardan will not be beating this third opponent, while Noish has a very real chance to. Couple this with Noish's better performance outside of the arena (lolhorse), and it's easy to see why Noish is a better candidate for the Pursuit Ring.

-Lachesis can't possibly have the money by now.

She wants the Elite Ring before the Pursuit Ring.

-lolDew

Yes.

-Again, Levin probably doesn't have the money quite yet

He starts with 8000 gold. If he clears both arenas, he has enough money to buy it.

-Upon arrival, Tiltyu's now in the same class as Arden, that being the "I will never get in range to hit anything ever again". At least Arden was around where the maps were SOMEWHAT nice to footsoldiers.

Yeah.

What's the "rule set" for using the arena in this tier list? I find Noish does pretty well, but then I don't mind letting him fight from 1 hp while holding down a turbo button and a frameskip key until he crit-OHKOs a few low-HP units (like the various swordfighters and mages).

Something like that is fine, I'm sure. Someone said on one of the other lists before that we could abuse the in-game saves to arena abuse everyone, but I don't think this is a proper guildline for this list.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Ok, I'll start with these statements:

-Fin for bottom of High

-Beowulf, Alec, and Noish all in the bottom of Upper-Mid tier.

My reason for Fin is simple, he has Pursuit and gets a free Brave Lance. With a speed ring he is easily 1RKOing most things in sight and has Prayer in case shit hits the fan for one turn.

And for Alec, Noish, and Beowulf well, they have horses, they shouldn't be in the same tier as failures such as Azel and Dew. A mounted unit in FE4 means A LOT even if they have many flaws.

[grandjackal]

My reason for Fin is simple, he has Pursuit

So do a lot of people who aren't high tier, including Alec

and gets a free Brave Lance.

That he has no exclusive rights to, especially when Fury uses it better

With a speed ring he is easily 1RKOing most things in sight

1. Who wants to name off all the people who would like the speed ring?

2. If he needs the speed ring to double despite having pursuit, wouldn't that mean pursuit is that that much an advantage for him?

and has Prayer in case shit hits the fan for one turn.

Under an incredibly specific and unlikely condition of being below 5 HP.

Also, nice addressing the availability issue, where he disappears after chapter 3.

And for Alec, Noish, and Beowulf well, they have horses, they shouldn't be in the same tier as failures such as Azel and Dew. A mounted unit in FE4 means A LOT even if they have many flaws.

I would rather have foot soldiers who are decent during foot soldier segments than those guys being of ever so minor benefit of being mop-up for our horsemen, of which consist mostly of royally badass units like Sigurd, Lex, Midir, Pursuit Cuan, Fin (when those two are around anyways), and Fury (when she's not out and about flying where others can't follow). Mobility is nice, but being characters specifically existing just to eat scraps/the occasional slayer weapon kill is still not exactly helpful.

[Dat Nick]

1. Who wants to name off all the people who would like the speed ring?

You mean, people actually want it? Maybe Midir, I can't imagine anybody else.

[_____]

Not even Midir. He can double everything in Chapter 1, and Chapters 2-3 are filled with armors. He gets the Brave Bow in Chapter 4.

[grandjackal]

You mean, people actually want it? Maybe Midir, I can't imagine anybody else.

I'm sure Noish with pursuit ring could double without having to use pissweak swords, which allows him more damage potential through berserk both with letting him use a stronger weapon of which to crit with, and doubling to have two chances to activate it, along with increasing Duel's activation rate to significantly boost his killing abilities.

Azel could use it to boost his capabilities in the arena with +5 AS and +10 Avoid, so he could get to level 20 faster, which rewards us with a magical horseman, which is badass.

I would like to have it on someone who exists for longer than Fin does.

I would like it to be around at the start of gen 2, and unless Fin is the father of a starting gen 2 kid, he has little claim to keep it when he leaves.

If he wants it, he best wait till Gen 2...When he's finally slow enough for it to be a big deal.

[_____]

I'm sure Noish with pursuit ring could double without having to use pissweak swords, which allows him more damage potential through berserk both with letting him use a stronger weapon of which to crit with, and doubling to have two chances to activate it, along with increasing Duel's activation rate to significantly boost his killing abilities.

Noish can't even use a generic weapon stronger than Steel even post promotion. 2 MT for more doubling is not a bad trade-off.

Azel could use it to boost his capabilities in the arena with +5 AS and +10 Avoid, so he could get to level 20 faster, which rewards us with a magical horseman, which is badass.

Fire weighing way too much is only one of Azel's problems. His durability hinders him in the arena, and there's no reason to waste a perfectly good ring on someone for the Arena only. It's the same as Noish vs. Ardan for the Pursuit Ring.

I would like to have it on someone who exists for longer than Fin does.

I would like it to be around at the start of gen 2, and unless Fin is the father of a starting gen 2 kid, he has little claim to keep it when he leaves.

If he wants it, he best wait till Gen 2...When he's finally slow enough for it to be a big deal.

Selling is impossible?

Fin's lances weigh 12. If he wants to start quadding sooner, that Speed Ring helps him out a lot.