Gatrie Vs. Oswin

[nabvfgsyeahuwdefgfue7huiwr]

Most actually would get that impression, because it is more likely to compare their perfomance and not who would win in an improbably match.

I know, we aren't talking about an Gatrie and Oswin fighting, just comparing their performance. Is anyone confused about that?

[Inui]

lol @ people talking about caps and saying Gatrie's higher numbers somehow matter when it's his higher number facing much higher numbers than Oswin has to

[nabvfgsyeahuwdefgfue7huiwr]

lol @ people talking about caps and saying Gatrie's higher numbers somehow matter when it's his higher number facing much higher numbers than Oswin has to

Are you trying to say that Gatrie faces tougher enemies? If so, that is true. We are debating about whether or not that cancels out his higher caps.

[Junkhead]

I know, we aren't talking about an Gatrie and Oswin fighting, just comparing their performance. Is anyone confused about that?

Didn't really seem like it in this post:

Oswin with capped speed and a rex hasta won't be doubled by a swordmaster with capped speed and the regal blade. Oswin does have much better resistance. Hitting a cap just symbolizes a character that is especially good in a certain area. As I said earlier, that depends on a class's stat caps. Take Rave, for example, he has insane base speed and speed growth, but caps at a mere 26 spd.

Because, like me and Inui said: In this case, judging by caps proves to be unnecesary when the enemies vary as well.

[Rewjeo]

Depending on whether or not someone has good stat caps.

No, it doesn't. Whether the cap is 20 and they reach it as soon as they promote or it's 25 and they reach it at 20/10, it still prevents the stat from getting any better.

[nabvfgsyeahuwdefgfue7huiwr]

Didn't really seem like it in this post:

Because, like me and Inui said: In this case, judging by caps proves to be unnecesary when the enemies vary as well.

Yes, factors such as caps and the difficulty of enemies influence who performs better in their respective games.

[nabvfgsyeahuwdefgfue7huiwr]

No, it doesn't. Whether the cap is 20 and they reach it as soon as they promote or it's 25 and they reach it at 20/10, it still prevents the stat from getting any better.

But capping a stat does symbolise a character's performance.

[Mekkah]

FE10 Oscar might cap speed earlier than Titania, Nephenee, Mia, Ike, etc. Does this symbolize his performance in any way?

[Integrity]

Tormod caps Strength very early. Debate settled.

[Anouleth]

Sothe caps his strength early too. FEAR his 30ATK with a Steel Dagger!

[Inui]

Hey, let's all make sarcastic comments to show he's an idiot instead of fixing the fact that he's acting like an idiot!

Basically, caps don't matter. Performance does. Gatrie has bigger numbers, but he's facing enemies with bigger numbers and his comrades have bigger numbers. Oswin is facing pathetic ass Bishops with like 34 HP and 7 Def that he can kill in one hit with a silver weapon and supports, while Gatrie is facing enemies with like...+10-15 HP and +4-5 Def without having like 20 more Atk than Oswin.

Make sense?

[nabvfgsyeahuwdefgfue7huiwr]

FE10 Oscar might cap speed earlier than Titania, Nephenee, Mia, Ike, etc. Does this symbolize his performance in any way?

When he caps speed doesn't symbolize anything, but the fact that he does cap speed symbolizes his performance. How does sharing my opinion make me an idiot? Someone might disagree with your views, that doesn't make you an idiot.

[Junkhead]

When he caps speed doesn't symbolize anything, but the fact that he does cap speed symbolizes his performance. How does sharing my opinion make me an idiot? Someone might disagree with your views, that doesn't make you an idiot.

I love it how you're contradicting yourself.

Think of it, performance is judged in HARD MODE. How does Gatrie get to cap his Spd in the first place? By leveling, and he isn't exactly doubling anything that isn't a Bishop before that, even with capped Spd, there are barely thing he'll get to double there. Oswin is barely getting scratched when he starts off, Gatrie isn't exactly getting lots of damage done by physical units, but he is sure getting some by magic users, Oswin is dealing more damage against both, he also 2RKOs every enemy aside the bosses or some Knights, whom he's still borderline of doing so.

[nabvfgsyeahuwdefgfue7huiwr]

I love it how you're contradicting yourself.

Think of it, performance is judged in HARD MODE. How does Gatrie get to cap his Spd in the first place? By leveling, and he isn't exactly doubling anything that isn't a Bishop before that, even with capped Spd, there are barely thing he'll get to double there. Oswin is barely getting scratched when he starts off, Gatrie isn't exactly getting lots of damage done by physical units, but he is sure getting some by magic users, Oswin is dealing more damage against both, he also 2RKOs every enemy aside the bosses or some Knights, whom he's still borderline of doing so.

I'm not contradicting myself. I don't care when someone caps a stat, it isn't significant as long as they cap said stat. That is significant.

[Junkhead]

We were only mentioning Spd here. What importance does it have when you can't put it to good use? Or do you just enjoy looking at that pretty, glowy green?

[Narga_Rocks]

Gatrie takes 3-3 crown. Gatrie destroys remainder of part 3. You don't have very many units ORKOing everything they encounter. Can Oswin say the same about what he is doing to enemies? Also, from various comments in the fe7 tier list it doesn't seem like Oswin is untouchable by magic. Especially when he's getting doubled by Valkyries. Gatrie doesn't fear any mages except thunder mages, and only until that crown. Even before, though, at least Gatrie isn't 3HKOd by elthunder (I think). Ike is, however. Ike can be crit-killed by elthunder mages and Gatrie can't. When your two best units (Ike + Haar) are both crit-killed by elthunder mages (even with Nullify Haar is 3HKOd), makes you not care as much if Gatrie is damaged a bit by them, doesn't it?

[Junkhead]

Gatrie takes 3-3 crown.

Oswin is the best candidate to the first Knight Crest, it's about the same thing, then again, you get Haar, who is an even better option due to mobility as well as masive Atk.

You don't have very many units ORKOing everything they encounter.

As I stated, Haar is a better option, you might as well have leveled him up a bit during Part 2, one or two levels at least. The only way Gatrie is ORKO is by getting an early promotion, he's only at level 10, you might as well want to train him a bit since it is exactly worth it thanks to those growths, it's great for BEXP.

Can Oswin say the same about what he is doing to enemies?

He's 2RKO'ing before promotion, and upon promotion, he will double quite a few things actually, and he is garanteed to start 1-2RKO'ing everything in sight aside from bosses, which I actually doubt if he isn't 2RKO'ing them. Unlike Gatrie, Oswin proves to be more helpful in HHM where enemies don't actually come as strong, but they do come in bigger numbers, so he's doing just great blocking entries of any Mercenary, Myrmidon and just about everything.

Also, from various comments in the fe7 tier list it doesn't seem like Oswin is untouchable by magic. Especially when he's getting doubled by Valkyries.

It's because Mages don't spawn until at least Chapter 15, but there's like one in that Chapter, and it's not like Mages have high Atk in this FE.

Yeah, Valkyries. These are actually the most fastest generic enemy magic users, what else do you get when comparing a slow unit like Oswin to those? They have like 18 AS IRC, fielding Oswin in a place filled with magic users isn't the most ideal of things. And some of them have Elfire, so he's not exactly getting doubled by every one of them.

Gatrie doesn't fear any mages except thunder mages, and only until that crown.

Gatrie would fear just about every mage, you know, since Thunder is probably the worst magic of the anima triangle in FE10, it's not like that critical exceeds 10% on him. But he's almost around the same situation as Oswin here, except they actually have reliable Atk, mages in FE7 have laughable Atk seeing as not most wield a Thunder tome.

When your two best units (Ike + Haar) are both crit-killed by elthunder mages (even with Nullify Haar is 3HKOd), makes you not care as much if Gatrie is damaged a bit by them, doesn't it?

Well, with that excuse Haar wouldn't even be as high on tiers or scoreboards as he is, now would he? Haar's Luck isn't great, but neither is it crap, same goes with Ike, they are rarely being criticled when they have 13 (Haar) and 14 (Ike) Luck, the enemy doesn't exceed 20% Critical, even if a Thunder Sage caps Skill, it's still doesn't bear exactly reliable critical as to get them killed often.

[Ether]

Gatrie can grab a crown as soon as he hits 23 Spd,and with a 60% growth,it doesn't take him very long.For the remainder of part 3,he decimates everything with a hand axe or something,and probably can't physically die unless the player is a complete retard.

Compare to Oswin,who has similar durability,but much worse offense than Gatrie,as well,Oswin's teamates have generally much better offense than Gatrie's teamates.

[Junkhead]

Much worse offense? Yeah, if you go by comparing their stats, but if we put them in context to the enemies around them Oswin has a good advantage, mainly because enemies in FE7 don't have actually reliable Avo as they do in FE10 thanks to the fact many bear decent Spd and Luck, in FE7, there are no such things as enemies with Luck, at least the ones that do have a teeny tiny bit are bosses.

[Ether]

15/1 Gatrie has the following hit values with B Boyd(Boyd likes the Def/Hit,Gatrie doesn't care too much about who he supports)

Hand Axe:155

Steel Poleax:145

Steel Axe:160

Killer Axe:160

Javelin:150

Steel lance:165

Steel GreatLance:155

Silver lance:165

Killer Lance:165

Around chapter,say...3-5,enemies have around 50-60 Avo.AKA,Gatrie doesn't care about hit.Even losing 5 hit from supporting someone else,he isn't having trouble

[Narga_Rocks]

Oswin is the best candidate to the first Knight Crest, it's about the same thing, then again, you get Haar, who is an even better option due to mobility as well as masive Atk.

Except his tier 2 cap is 24 letting you have 24 AS and 25 AS rather than 23 AS and 26 AS. 26 vs. 25 is meaningless until 3-10, by the way.

As I stated, Haar is a better option, you might as well have leveled him up a bit during Part 2, one or two levels at least. The only way Gatrie is ORKO is by getting an early promotion, he's only at level 10, you might as well want to train him a bit since it is exactly worth it thanks to those growths, it's great for BEXP.

Except Haar needs a speedwing and 7 levels before it is worth crowning him. Gatrie needs 5 levels only. Gatrie will be ready sooner than Haar. Hence, Gatrie goes first. You can steal another crown in chapter 3-7 anyway so Haar only suffers in chapter 3-5, maybe, because of a few 21 AS enemies. Most in 3-7 are 20 AS anyway so 24 AS doubles.

He's 2RKO'ing before promotion, and upon promotion, he will double quite a few things actually, and he is garanteed to start 1-2RKO'ing everything in sight aside from bosses, which I actually doubt if he isn't 2RKO'ing them. Unlike Gatrie, Oswin proves to be more helpful in HHM where enemies don't actually come as strong, but they do come in bigger numbers, so he's doing just great blocking entries of any Mercenary, Myrmidon and just about everything.

Oh wow! Except you know what? Gatrie doubles everything after promotion but swordmasters. Don't see Oswin saying that, do you? And Gatrie 2 rounds or 1 rounds most things before promotion. You know how you said Oswin doubles "quite a few things" after promotion? Well, that's Gatrie before promotion because 20 speed base and 60% growth against mages/paladins/generals means he gets a fair amount of things to double even before he promotes.

It's because Mages don't spawn until at least Chapter 15, but there's like one in that Chapter, and it's not like Mages have high Atk in this FE.

Yeah, Valkyries. These are actually the most fastest generic enemy magic users, what else do you get when comparing a slow unit like Oswin to those? They have like 18 AS IRC, fielding Oswin in a place filled with magic users isn't the most ideal of things. And some of them have Elfire, so he's not exactly getting doubled by every one of them.

And yet Gatrie can be fielded everywhere and go anywhere. Seems like a win for Gatrie to me, eh?

Gatrie would fear just about every mage, you know, since Thunder is probably the worst magic of the anima triangle in FE10, it's not like that critical exceeds 10% on him. But he's almost around the same situation as Oswin here, except they actually have reliable Atk, mages in FE7 have laughable Atk seeing as not most wield a Thunder tome.

Crit is the entire point! Gatrie laughs at the other mages because they 3RKO him before promotion at best (many 4RKO) and 6 or 7 RKO him after promotion. Elthunder mages are quite literally the only mage feared by Haar/Ike/Gatrie because of that crit. Unless you don't care about randomly having to reset. But I guess if you don't care about that it might explain why you don't value Gatrie as much. That says something, don't you think? And of the 3 units I mentioned, Gatrie is the least worried.

Well, with that excuse Haar wouldn't even be as high on tiers or scoreboards as he is, now would he? Haar's Luck isn't great, but neither is it crap, same goes with Ike, they are rarely being criticled when they have 13 (Haar) and 14 (Ike) Luck, the enemy doesn't exceed 20% Critical, even if a Thunder Sage caps Skill, it's still doesn't bear exactly reliable critical as to get them killed often.

That's why you keep Ike/Haar away from them. Do you seriously not see why even a 3% chance to be crit-killed is a problem? Ike and Haar are so good because you don't have to always face the things. Or in chapter 3-3 Haar is so important at taking out the supplies that you just deal with the 3% chance to die.

Tell me something, if you don't care that Haar and Ike randomly die from mages, what does it matter if Gatrie takes some damage? The two best units are worse against mages (all mages) than Gatrie is. If it doesn't hurt them (in your mind), why do you act like it hurts Gatrie? Hello double standard?

Much worse offense? Yeah, if you go by comparing their stats, but if we put them in context to the enemies around them Oswin has a good advantage, mainly because enemies in FE7 don't have actually reliable Avo as they do in FE10 thanks to the fact many bear decent Spd and Luck, in FE7, there are no such things as enemies with Luck, at least the ones that do have a teeny tiny bit are bosses.

Fail to read everything much?

"Oswin's teamates have generally much better offense than Gatrie's teamates."

Gatrie's teammates? 2RKO or 3RKO most things. Even Ike can fail to double. Aside from Shinon and Mia and blessed versions of Ike and Haar and Titania Gatrie has the best offence on your team by far. Can Oswin say that? And did you look at Gatrie's stats compared to enemy avo? Everything is on this site. Gatrie doesn't have miss issues. Even before promotion, forge him something. Steel Axes are incredibly cheap to forge +3 mt +15 hit onto. He'll 2HKO everything but generals with that and have 100% hitrates even when bio is against him. Well, maybe not when it's all the way against him, but near enough.

Gatrie: kills everything on a team that isn't killing everything. Never dies on a team that has good durability but not as much as Gatrie.

Oswin: does he kill everything? Even if he has good durability, even if it is the best, is it even by a larger margin than Gatrie's durability advantage over units not named Haar or transfer Ike?

[Anouleth]

Oswin suffers from greater movement issues than Gatrie anyway. Gatrie has 6 move to everyone else's 7 move, so he's only got about 6/7ths of their movement speed. Oswin has 4 move to everyone else's 5 move, so he's only got 4/5ths of their movement speed. 6/7 > 4/5.

In addition, Oswin is in a game where 4 of the best units in the whole game have 7-8 move. Gatrie is in a game where Paladins aren't so strong, so even though Titania/Haar/Oscar exist, they're not quite so important as Kent/Sain/Lowen/Marcus (and maybe Florina) are in FE7. Haar is often busy on errands like in 3-2 and 3-3, Titania and Oscar are frequently limited by ledges and swamp that still limit Gatrie but not as much, and there are several chapters where movement isn't a big issue, like 3-5 and 3-7. So Gatrie's poor movement is less of a problem for him.

[Junkhead]

Well, I don't mind Gatrie being better than Oswin, much better than the cap arguement.

[nabvfgsyeahuwdefgfue7huiwr]

Well, I don't mind Gatrie being better than Oswin, much better than the cap arguement.

Yeah... we wasted a lot of time on that one. Gatrie has higher stats but faces harder enemies. Also, Oswin has 30 levels to grow and Gatrie has 29, so not much difference there. Oswin comes earlier and at a much higher level than other competent units in Blazing Sword. The same can't be said about Gatrie, he is around the same base level as Ike/Shinon/Oscar. It is difficult to compare caps and stats due to the difference in enemy stats.

[Junkhead]

Yep...I voted for who I thought was more useful, not who is the strongest one, even if it means taking down armours and like all the enemies in the map. Now, why would you even do that with Gatrie when his usefulness would fully exist on taking out those thrash cans?

I feel Oswin helps you out more for being a wall, Mov shouldn't prove to be too much of a problem, I mean, it's not exactly stoping him from being high on tiers.