Thracia 776 AI

[chococoke]

So I would consider myself relatively new to the Fire Emblem series, seeing as I started with Fire Emblem 7 (and have played all of them that have come out since, aside from Shadow Dragon.)

Now, I've read a few times about the brilliant AI of Thracia 776. First of all, I had never even heard of this game before joining SF, so I have no clue about this game. Anyway, since all I've had to deal with is the retardo-AI of FE 7, 8, 9, and 10, can anyone give me any examples of why/how Thracia's AI is so superior to all other games'?

EDIT: Okay, just realized it's ThRAcia. Great.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Chococoke

[Tables]

The basic understanding I have (and I've never played it so I may be wrong, but...) is that they buy weapons from shops and move in groups a lot more.

[Krad]

The enemies tend to move on groups, they will use any staffs they have, the will trade with each other if they lose their weapons, they will always attempt to capture unarmed units, etc.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Krad

[Dr. Tarrasque]

The enemies tend to move on groups, they will use any staffs they have, the will trade with each other if they lose their weapons, they will always attempt to capture unarmed units, etc.

This bit here can be exploited to make some enemies easier if needed. Just remember that the enemy has the advantage when it comes to capturing since they can take all but character specific items right away as opposed to requiring some other unit to step in and take the captured enemy's items like how the player has to.

In addition, they won't suicide against overpowered units as often.

[chococoke]

This bit here can be exploited to make some enemies easier if needed. Just remember that the enemy has the advantage when it comes to capturing since they can take all but character specific items right away as opposed to requiring some other unit to step in and take the captured enemy's items like how the player has to.

In addition, they won't suicide against overpowered units as often.

I figured the last part would be as such. However, what exactly is this "capturing" bit?

[Salad Utensil]

If an enemy has Canto it WILL exploit it to the best of its ability. IE in chapter 9, wyvern riders will attack your units with their killer lances and then canto to a mountain out of reach to your units making them difficult to kill.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I figured the last part would be as such. However, what exactly is this "capturing" bit?

The "Rescue" command but used on enemies. Refer to this:

http://serenesforest.net/fe5/faq.html

Q) How do you capture enemies?

A) You can capture enemies as long as your character's Build exceeds theirs. If the enemy is mounted, you cannot capture them (although you force them to dismount by using a Sleep staff). To start capturing, you must choose the Capture command before attempting to fight an enemy. Your character's major stats will be temporarily halved and a battle will follow. If you successfully KO the enemy in this battle, you will capture them. You can automatically capture enemies without fighting them if they are unarmed or cannot fight.

Q) What's the point of capturing?

A) The main reason is to take the enemy's weapons and items, which you can do by using the Trade command when you're holding onto an enemy. Also, some characters can only be recruited by capturing them (Lifis, Salem, Misha).

Q) Is there any point in releasing captured enemies?

A) No, not really. Although it is pointless holding onto enemies after you've taken their items. However, bear in mind that releasing recruitable enemies counts as killing them. So, for example, if you want to snatch Shiva's Kill Sword in Chapter 2x, you can do so, but if you want to recruit him later you'll need to hold onto him until the chapter's end.

It's pretty essential in this game since this is where most of your items and funds will come from unless you're arena abusing in this game.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Speedwagon

[chococoke]

0_0

after reading that FAQ, this game now seems rather crazy

[Shimmachi]

The chapters with a red-haired High Priest in there with 10 Authority Stars will kill you, that's for sure. Never played 776, but I read it on a bunch of places.

[Mekkah]

That chapter only kills you if you play it poorly. You can 1-turn the chapter with Warp, or you can just wait until the guy leaves.

[Salad Utensil]

You can also always just attack Cyas (Cyrus?) with any unit. Irrelevant whether it hits or not and Cyas (Cyrus?) will just leave the next turn.

[Scarlet]

You can also always just attack Cyas (Cyrus?) with any unit. Irrelevant whether it hits or not and Cyas (Cyrus?) will just leave the next turn.

That only works in chapter 22 though. In that other chapter he appears in he won't leave even if you attack him, I tried it.

Though of course, just waiting it out or warp-skipping always works.

[Salad Utensil]

That only works in chapter 22 though. In that other chapter he appears in he won't leave even if you attack him, I tried it.

Though of course, just waiting it out or warp-skipping always works.

He also appears in 17A too right? Cyas isn't inherent to that chapter though since he is a reinforcement...so you can probably beat that chapter before he even arrives or at least get far enough that his bonuses stop mattering...much...or like you said warp-skipping...

Edited May 27, 2010 by Brighton

[Biabarr]

He also appears in 17A too right? Cyas isn't inherent to that chapter though since he is a reinforcement...so you can probably beat that chapter before he even arrives or at least get far enough that his bonuses stop mattering...much...or like you said warp-skipping...

In ch 17A I remember the enemies being much easier. I actually think that for some wierd reason, Cyas did not have his leadership bonus in those chapters.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

In ch 17A I remember the enemies being much easier. I actually think that for some wierd reason, Cyas did not have his leadership bonus in those chapters.

No, he does have it. It's just less noticeable since the main enemies that take advantage of it are Armors you can easily deal with as all they really have is just a lot more HP than the rest.

[Renall]

Thracia's AI is actually not all that smart. It just actually has some AI, as opposed to many other FE games. Really, a lot of AI behavior is just scripted; the moving with groups for example is just because their AI is programmed to have everybody move a certain way in a set formation unless a player unit is in range. Whereupon their actions are fairly predictable. FE4 works the same way, it's very impressive as long as it doesn't have to contend with your characters. Though I think FE4 horse units make smarter canto decisions.

They take stats into account, but not things like skills or (I suspect) weapon quality, so they will often suicide on Ambush Olwen or bash up against Asvel thinking his low defense will let them kill him (and it might, had they any hope of hitting him or surviving). They're capture fanatics, which makes them quite easy to bait. They are not afraid of effective weapons. They DO at least tend to avoid brilliant displays of GBA-and-on era idiocy (or FE4 idiocy) and always attack at range if targeting a unit that has no ranged ability itself. Seeing Javelin guys suicide into Sigurd is just a wall-banger.

And, like most FE enemies, they love attacking things that can't hurt them back, even if they have no chance of dealing any damage, so defensive lures work well. Of course you could just lure everyone with Asvel and KILL them, but that's neither here nor there.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I was wondering something too. In FE3, the enemies seem a lot more ruthless, and if they can, they'll throw as many attacks as possible at the most vulnerable person in range. In FE4, even if they could kill a unit by swarming him or her, they'll spread out instead and attack multiple people (sometimes totally ignoring very weak units). What do FE5 enemies do?

[Renall]

Most FE enemies have roughly the following attack selection AI:

• Is anyone in range? If yes, move toward them and attack unless programmed to stand still. If multiple choices...
  
• Is anyone in range incapable of fighting back? If yes, attack them. In FE5, if they're unarmed and it's possible, capture them instead. This is the basis of the Unequipped Wall strategy, as the AI loves to swarm people that can't hit it back. If everyone in range can retaliate...
  
• Can anyone in range be killed in a round of combat? Move and attack them. Note that factors like evasion or Ambush seem to be ignored in most FE games, so enemies will suicide rush a Resolve/Ambush/high-dodge character and die. If no one can be killed...
  
• Who will I do the most damage to? Move and attack them. If there's a tie...
  
• Who will do the least damage to me? Move and attack them. Sometimes advantageous terrain is factored into this (and the AI will move to the most favorable terrain that allows it to attack).

There are a great many things the AI doesn't consider and should, such as:

• Is it easier for me to cover this area? Is there better terrain or a chokepoint nearby?
  
• Does the enemy have allies who will be in range of me if I move in range of it? Do I have allies in range of me who will not be able to attack the unit I'm moving to attack?
  
• Will I be moving out of range of a healer?
  
• If I move, am I abandoning an important area?
  
• If I can deal little or no damage by moving and will probably be attacked by multiple enemies, is it better to stay put?
  
• If I'm slightly injured, is it better to just camp out, equip a 1~2 range weapon, and use a Vulnerary?

My limited experience with Shadow Dragon is that "can I kill someone?" takes precedent over "can I attack someone who can't counterattack?" So it's possible 1-3 use different considerations.

[General Spoon]

Oh hey guys! Don't forget about that one bishop that opens a chest and takes out Meteor, and starts to blast your guys with said Meteor.

[Icon of Sin]

Oh hey guys! Don't forget about that one bishop that opens a chest and takes out Meteor, and starts to blast your guys with said Meteor.

Granted he doesn't do that unless you're slow. If you get a few movement stars and put keys on units with high move like Eyvel, there should be no problems about getting bombarded.

[Renall]

I think FE5 is the only game where ballistas and siege tomes are an actual credible threat, ever. Part of that is probably the other FE games having three siege tomes total in the entire game, though.

Not that I'm objecting. I love those Meteor/Physic Bishops. They're like pinatas full of easily-capturable goodies.