Dark Sage Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 None of that makes me think he doesn't suck, to be blunt... Because axes suck massively in FE6. And Halberds and Hammers on someone who has enough trouble hitting already? *Tidus laugh* And early promotion is something I generally look down on. Plus, the Secret Book won't help Gonzo much anyhow. The same list that has Fir>Lot has Gonzlaes in High Tier. On both routes. If you want to dispute that on the tier list, feel free, but Gonzales doesn't suck at all. At the very least, his doubling ability and joining on chapters with either weighted down enemies and then lance heavy chapters means he's going to be hitting more than you're giving him credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The same list that has Fir>Lot has Gonzlaes in High Tier. On both routes. If you want to dispute that on the tier list, feel free, but Gonzales doesn't suck at all. At the very least, his doubling ability and joining on chapters with either weighted down enemies and then lance heavy chapters means he's going to be hitting more than you're giving him credit for. I don't really care about FE6's tier list. And screw whiffing twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Doubling increases true hit. Gonzales's hit rates should increase therefore, and his hit shouldn't be that inaccurate because of weighted down enemies, or WTA or both. Honestly, you've yet to convince me that Gonzales sucks. Oh, and Geese isn't very good. Not content to be stuck with inaccurate axes, he also has to have meh strength to go along with it, not enough speed to double (at least early on), little support options, and no early game utility that Lot has. And inferior durability to other axers. Edited January 8, 2011 by Dark Sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) And likewise, you've yet to convince me that Gonzales isn't the waste of oxygen I make him out to be. You may be willing to sweep his hit problems under the rug, but no chance in hell I will. Edited January 8, 2011 by Malik Maxwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Doubling increases true hit. You're referring to the fact that doubling increases his chance to hit at least once, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Right. @Max: The "hit problems" while existent, are nowhere near bad as you make them out to be. Gonzales also makes a good meatshield too with his overkill HP and passable defense. He also has good support options AND a good affinity to boost along with it. His two best options Lilina and Echidna, shock and surprise, boosts hit. If Echidna is too slow a support, Lilina will do, and he still gets a boost to both hit and durability thanks to his Thunder affinity. Even if he hits only once, he still does a big chunk of damage. And while you may like to ignore his join chapters and situation and leveling and supports and possibly a Secret Book (seriously, there's pretty much no competition for it, so Gonzales grabbing that and his hit boosting supports should help mitigate the hit issues). At worst, he can just sit on a peak and toss a handaxe/use a killer, iron. It's still something he can do that others can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) @Max: The "hit problems" while existent, are nowhere near bad as you make them out to be. Gonzales also makes a good meatshield too with his overkill HP and passable defense. He also has good support options AND a good affinity to boost along with it. His two best options Lilina and Echidna, shock and surprise, boosts hit. If Echidna is too slow a support, Lilina will do, and he still gets a boost to both hit and durability thanks to his Thunder affinity. Even if he hits only once, he still does a big chunk of damage. And while you may like to ignore his join chapters and situation and leveling and supports and possibly a Secret Book (seriously, there's pretty much no competition for it, so Gonzales grabbing that and his hit boosting supports should help mitigate the hit issues). At worst, he can just sit on a peak and toss a handaxe/use a killer, iron. It's still something he can do that others can't. Echidna and Lilina both give half hit... Yay? I am not impressed. And the Secret Book? I feel someone who's more borderline on reliability would benefit, or just sell it for 4 grand. In addition, him missing means I either have to have someone else clean up the mess he made, or I'll be paying for it, maybe with another unit dying. Edited January 8, 2011 by Malik Maxwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrhesia Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) I disagree with the bold - I think that axes weren't all that great until Tellius. As has doubtless been reiterated, the axes were great. The bearers were the problem, if anything...even then, guys like Dart? Geitz? Harken? Gerik? And either Garcia or Ross? (I seem to be the only man in the world who likes using both, as Heroes specifically.) The game's about uncertainty, man. Learn to laugh at those 92% misses and just keep going. Edited January 8, 2011 by Furetchen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 As has doubtless been reiterated, the axes were great. The bearers were the problem, if anything...even then, guys like Dart? Geitz? Harken? Gerik? And either Garcia or Ross? (I seem to be the only man in the world who likes using both, as Heroes specifically.) The game's about uncertainty, man. Learn to laugh at those 92% misses and just keep going. Dart - I wouldn't touch the likes of him with a 1001 foot pole. And promoting him gets me nothing that promoting anyone else wouldn't get me. In addition, he costs 50k to promote. DO NOT WANT. Garcia - Can't double a snail on depressants. I'm not commenting on Ross, but Geitz was all right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Echidna and Lilina both give half hit... Yay? I am not impressed. And the Secret Book? I feel someone who's more borderline on reliability would benefit, or just sell it for 4 grand. In addition, him missing means I either have to have someone else clean up the mess he made, or I'll be paying for it, maybe with another unit dying. Selling a statbooster for a character that actually uses it well is plane out sandbagging the guy. Edited January 8, 2011 by Soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Selling a statbooster for a character that actually uses it well is plane out sandbagging the guy. Which doesn't even help him much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 That doesn't make any sense with the context of what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 That doesn't make any sense with the context of what I said. I was saying that the Secret Book isn't much help for Gonzales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Along with the Lilina/Echidna supports, it is. It also much depends at what the heck do you aim at. Alot people complain about axe users that "Don't ever hit anything" even though they are hitting sword-enemies in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Along with the Lilina/Echidna supports, it is. It also much depends at what the heck do you aim at. Alot people complain about axe users that "Don't ever hit anything" even though they are hitting sword-enemies in the first place. Never mind the fact that the Echidna support has the speed of molasses and Lilina's... kinda iffy, to say the least. And I think Gonzales would struggle to hit even lancers, and that pisses me off. Edited January 8, 2011 by Malik Maxwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Dart - I wouldn't touch the likes of him with a 1001 foot pole. And promoting him gets me nothing that promoting anyone else wouldn't get me. In addition, he costs 50k to promote. DO NOT WANT. Unless you're ranking, it's only 25k you lose. Other than that, you get someone who can both double and kill more reliably than just about anyone else you're going to get. Support him with someone like Rebecca and Hit chance won't even be an issue anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Unless you're ranking, it's only 25k you lose. Other than that, you get someone who can both double and kill more reliably than just about anyone else you're going to get. Support him with someone like Rebecca and Hit chance won't even be an issue anymore. FE7 enemies fail hard, meaning that he fails to stand out, really. And Dart's issue support wise is that his early options are archers, and you know that they aren't well-liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 FE7 enemies fail hard, meaning that he fails to stand out, really. And Dart's issue support wise is that his early options are archers, and you know that they aren't well-liked. I wasn't really talking in a tier sense. While Rebecca's far from great, she's no Wendy or Lyre, so I figured bringing her up shouldn't be too big of a deal. FE7 enemies suck, but there are those that can resist a good amount of your units, like Generals and Heroes, enemies a trained Dart can possibly just be laughing at. With Iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I wasn't really talking in a tier sense. While Rebecca's far from great, she's no Wendy or Lyre, so I figured bringing her up shouldn't be too big of a deal. FE7 enemies suck, but there are those that can resist a good amount of your units, like Generals and Heroes, enemies a trained Dart can possibly just be laughing at. With Iron. Ehh... I don't think either of those clases are all that common, and even then, I'd prefer to use a mage to knock them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ehh... I don't think either of those clases are all that common, and even then, I'd prefer to use a mage to knock them out. I'm just sayin'. He's not as bad as you make him out to be. He also has water and peak walk, especially useful on Night of Farewells and possible on Cog of Destiny as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I'm just sayin'. He's not as bad as you make him out to be. He also has water and peak walk, especially useful on Night of Farewells and possible on Cog of Destiny as well. Except for the fact that he ruined my opinion of berserkers for good, pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Except for the fact that he ruined my opinion of berserkers for good, pretty much. Then perhaps your opinion of Berserkers is in need of re-evaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Then perhaps your opinion of Berserkers is in need of re-evaluation. He's practically the reason why I revile the GBA berserkers... And it doesn't help that axes are my least favorite weapon type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) WKs and WLs, too. That's one annoying enemy type. You don't really have a choice most of the time, either. FE7 mages don't have horses and can't take hits well. Anyway, axes got better starting in FE7, but I wouldn't call them the best weapon class until FE9 where accuracy forges started coming into the picture. Lances are better in FE7 and FE8 because of higher hit, lower WT, and better distribution. It's the base weapon type for cavaliers and fliers. FE9 and FE10 gave axes to mounted knights and DKs, which turned the tables. EDIT: Wow, I got interrupted by like 5 posts. Edited January 8, 2011 by dondon151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 He's practically the reason why I revile the GBA berserkers... And it doesn't help that axes are my least favorite weapon type. Then...re-read everything I've been saying. And yeah, Wyverns too, as dondon said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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