Return of the Emblem: Chat

[Snike]

No, negative as in "violence."

Listen, punk. Violence is my area. Watch out, or it'll be YOU on the end of a blade.

In other news, my trip is awesome.

[Kanami]

Nyeee~ more violence! Then I can mount an argument that the group are more ruffian thugs then nooble mercenaries.

I don't mind violent characters :/ Though I prefer aggressive characters. (The difference being that the later doesn't try to maul you physically every time they get a chance)

I wonder how much of stat combat Damian will see considering the times I've seen you online :/ Ah well, seems like your stepping in now, so good luck, and try to have as much fun as possible At the expense of everyones sanity.

[13th]

I was thinking of aggressive. Not violence. Couldn't think of the word.

[Phoenix]

Nyeh, if that's your "bad" part, I'm expecting some decent leveled RP'ing from you mister XD Though the fact that you mentioned your "interactions" being your strong point is already a plus in my books.

I think it's funny how the roleplay section's version of a cluster bomb is holding some kind of rping standard for others. Don't get me wrong, I consider you a good writer, but all that says is "It'll be a well written carpet bombing!"

@Phoenix

What was Shadraks reasoning? You're all stupid so I'll organize your silly group and implement strategy? Or was it Woo~ FE fragment-like thingie! I want to research it despite not having the right equipment or chances to study it.

It began as the latter, but adopted some elements of the former.

I only see three legit ways into this group currently ... and by legit, I mean reasons that won't seem too shoehorned.

1: "The Fire Emblem! Can I haz turn with it?"

2: "I need hirez so I'mma go with U."

3: "One of the people you conned into helping you is here so I think I'll tag along for awhile. Look after them maybe. Eventually convince them to come home or something."

-------

1: Safe bet, though really ought to be a bit of a rarity.

2: Safer bet. Most common and most likely.

3: Not yet utilized

NEWS:

-Added Naoki (Chie's raven) to the archive. Little guy's even been stat'd :D

Edited March 2, 2011 by Phoenix

[Mercakete]

3: "One of the people you conned into helping you is here so I think I'll tag along for awhile. Look after them maybe. Eventually convince them to come home or something."

Raemond XD Not this rp, but you get the idea.

Also, I have a different strategy for joining but that'll be implemented later. Also, two other reasons for joining, both of which I used for Gytha:

4: "Just felt like it."

5: "It's the right thing to do."

[Kanami]

I think it's funny how the roleplay section's version of a cluster bomb is holding some kind of rping standard for others. Don't get me wrong, I consider you a good writer, but all that says is "It'll be a well written carpet bombing!"

I've always held an rping standard from others. :/ Hell I've probably ranted more times about plausibility then I have set fires :/ And I'm sure you've noticed that my bitching/whining about things is as frequent as my flaming tendencies (if not more).

I know you can't be bothered arguing so I'll make this brief. Early LoAF was filled with stupid incomprehensible rubbish. Mainly cause most of you all had "faith" in Snowy and ignored every problem or contradiction to hurry the plot along. I generally made those small problems explode so that people would stop ignoring their surroundings and situations. I admit I had fun destroying things, but if you don't acknowledge the crappy plot structure, you're still the idiot you were back then.

A good writer isn't at all necessary for Rping. Not unless you're the GM, or you're constantly setting up new plot devices for the enemy. As long as your sentence structure is clear enough and you're relatively active. You can pretty much go the entire way just be reacting to other characters and events that occur.

[-Cynthia-]

Raemond XD Not this rp, but you get the idea.

Also, I have a different strategy for joining but that'll be implemented later. Also, two other reasons for joining, both of which I used for Gytha:

4: "Just felt like it."

5: "It's the right thing to do."

A few more:

6- Looking for someone related to Fire Emblem in some way (already used more than once)

7- Same enemies as the group, ally against common foe

[Phoenix]

@ Cuddles

Oh right, I keep forgetting that your references never go beyond chapter 7 or so. Not really concerned with "early LoAF"(and I'm not really sure why you still are XD). Everything useful from that era has already been learned and applied. I keep my attentions on more recent events. Like "past three to four months" at the most.

@ Gytha

Well some might consider Gytha to be hyper and almost insane XD

[roymbrog]

8- To stay with your one true love

[Kanami]

1: "The Fire Emblem! Can I haz turn with it?"

2: "I need hirez so I'mma go with U."

3: "One of the people you conned into helping you is here so I think I'll tag along for awhile. Look after them maybe. Eventually convince them to come home or something."

1: Well there's actually seldom (if any) dialogue regarding the FE, and I doubt Raquel will hand it over to people to study, and "getting a turn" with it.... well it's not even clear if it really is the FE, and if people can actually have several turns with it. So it seems like a week reason. Though I do think joining the group for personal gain (eg stealing the valuable) is a pretty good reason. If anything seems awkward it can be placed down as the character being uneasy :/

2: The most common and typical reason, but Raquel isn't exactly a wealthy noble who's able to hire a legion of mercenaries. Hell she's admitted her payment is crap and that the main pro for joining is discounts. Just as bargain sales aren't a reason to actually buy crappy products, a discount really isn't that much of an initiative to be employed. It's a nice addition on the side but isn't a good "main payment"

3: It worked better in LoAF with the crimson weapons. In RoTE, the only person who "needs" to stay with the group is Raquel, everyone else is expendable. And many character (Gytha, Nanahm, Domovoi etc) desperately trying to stay with the group is silly. Maybe for awhile, but wanting to stay with the group at LoAF level (Iso/Irina) would be abnormal at this stage.

4: "Just felt like it."

5: "It's the right thing to do."

4: That's really just people closing their eyes and accepting it cause there's either no good alternatives, or they don't care. "Just felt like it" isn't a reason, it's a feeling. "Why did you smash that window?" it's not because you felt like it, well it is, but that's how you felt, why you did it could be a number of reasons. But feelings of wanting (or not wanting) to do something come from a separate reason.

5: Justice and morals are something I hate using, but I agree that this is a valid reasoning. There could be many reasons for staying with the group based on morals, such as repaying a member within a group (favor/money). Wanting to make sure the emblem doesn't fall into evils hands. There are others like wanting to help Raquel (or someone else) out of kindness, but unless you're trying to get in their pants or something, "I feel like being nice" isn't really a reason to stick with and help someone for an unknown period of time. (The ordeal might take several years)

6- Looking for someone related to Fire Emblem in some way (already used more than once)

7- Same enemies as the group, ally against common foe

6: Again with the FE, it seems pretty solidified in the minds of the GM that the shiny object Raquel holds is part of the FE or at least closely linked to it. That's fine in IRC and chat, but like the CWeapons in LoAF, It's odd that so many people are recognizing it as the FE. Wasn't the FE thought to be a myth? Either way it's been missing from human knowledge for many years.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like this much more then "hire me!" but the way you guys are treating it lately, I wouldn't be surprised if your next village sprung you and try to rob you of the FE.

7: This combined with a hint of 6 is what I'm planning to do with my character, despite, "Hey, you hate X too? Lets kill him together!" being a dodgy/corny post XD

8: I can live with, the difference from 3 is that it hasn't got this negative feeling of a "con artist" and trying to convince someone to leave. Though lovers flying around everywhere is creepy (personally). And I've seen too much of Ethers softcore porn as is. Wouldn't mind it so much if the lovers were controlled by separate RP'ers :/ Either way, it works

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EDIT

@Phoenix: Yeah, of course, since all the problems were solved and dealt with in chapter 7 <_< Plot stupidity has been continuing for as long as Snowy's been GM. (As much as I hate to say it, LoAF makes alot more sense with you putting the rails down).

And the only reason I mentioned early LoAF is because you're knowledge of me in RP's comes from early LoAF as well :/ So I'm not the only one pulling out "things gone by" to make points :/

Edited March 2, 2011 by Kanami

[roymbrog]

I was mostly joking about that last one XD

[Mercakete]

I'd catagorize "just felt like it" also as "nothing better to do." In Gytha's case, she'd be shipping out after exploring the new port anyway and she has something somewhat in common with Raquel (close father-daughter relationships and loss of contact with said relationship, but it's a bit more complex with Gytha, so I'll leave that for in-rp). Hence the "moral obligation" or "it's the right thing to do" reason, too. Some people have strong consciences and if they feel they're doing the right thing, it's enough to keep them to an ideal. Though Gytha's conscience isn't as strong as others' might be, this is still a valid reason imo.

[Kanami]

"moral obligation" or "it's the right thing to do" reason, too. Some people have strong consciences and if they feel they're doing the right thing, it's enough to keep them to an ideal.

Like religion?

But I still stand by my earlier comment.

Relax, sleep, enjoy a few luxuries. There's plenty to do that doesn't involve traveling with a group and constantly swaying between life and death.... well, unless you're a battle-holic :/

Plenty of other reasons you've listed about anyway. Sympathy, Self-comparison, possible frienship, even simply interest.

[Phoenix]

@Phoenix: Yeah, of course, since all the problems were solved and dealt with in chapter 7 <_< Plot stupidity has been continuing for as long as Snowy's been GM. (As much as I hate to say it, LoAF makes alot more sense with you putting the rails down).

And the only reason I mentioned early LoAF is because you're knowledge of me in RP's comes from early LoAF as well :/ So I'm not the only one pulling out "things gone by" to make points :/

@ rails:

Well that's what happens when you llisten to what other people are saying instead of immediately making a decision and tuning out everything else :/

@ Mentions

Fair enough. I'll start focusing on other things like Reika-->Kamilla/Seina-->Eriya parallels, and your inability to finish things you start

@ Reasons for joining

Separately rp'd lovers to date has been kind of dull and uninteresting IMO.

Lovers rp'd by the same person have also been pretty dull and uninteresting IMO.

No idea what would make the former more interesting, but I don't think it's going to be any different in RoTE. (Luckily the Phoenix already has his romance fix in this rp ^_^ )

What I'd really like to see more of is intertwined backstories, and if you don't know what I mean, Shadrak is a good example though it's not being touched on yet. Shadrak's past with Chelsea and also backstory characters controlled by someone besides him. Things like this are pretty engaging and fun to read and/or work with.

The fire emblem is a myth so most people should just be passing the thing Raquel's carrying off as a shiny piece of metal(majority) while a rare few bother considering the possibility, etc.

[Dark Sage]

I think only one last thing should be related to early LoAF, or just LoAF at all. This is pretty much my reaction:

That said, joining up with a group is pretty much one of the hardest aspects I've come across. The other is how to get into interacting with everyone. It's pretty easy to just stick to talking to one or two people only, and that's not always a good thing, especially when the character is meant to be extroverted. Just something to keep in mind here.

Dah! Just brought up LoAF again. Nuts...

@Intertwined Backstories: Purg, CATS and Cocytus in Gods of Atonement had that actually. It was somewhat interesting, but I don't quite remember what their collective backstory was XD

Edited March 2, 2011 by Laughing Unicorn

[Kanami]

@Rails

Well, in all honesty? Snowy didn't have the logical brains to direct a plot. That's all there is to it really.

@Mentions

Nyeh, fine, though regarding finishing things. I finish things, it's just that I reserve that for things I think are worth my time. Sadly internet Rp'ing isn't one of them, and never will be. Since I'd honestly not try and enjoy something I find is boring me to tears. I could be like others and post once every two-three days I suppose, but it becomes more of a chore then entertainment at that stage.

Love is boring in general, it's a mental disease somewhere between Alzheimers and Trichotillomania :/

I don't actually understand why love in RP's need to included half naked men and girls constantly being saved. A close friendship feel works just as well to illustrate :/

Intertwined stories are nice if they can be brought into the RP. But in many cases I find that the intertwined stories become irrelevant, and frequently only get a mention in the signup, never to be mentioned again. (Besides a "Hi, we meet again" during recruitment)

Though I do understand what you're trying to get at, I personally would prefer to see people making "subplots" that involve more then just their own character/s.

[roymbrog]

Why is everyone assuming I was talking about badly written sex and mushy romance...

[Dark Sage]

Love is boring in general, it's a mental disease somewhere between Alzheimers and Trichotillomania :/

I don't actually understand why love in RP's need to included half naked men and girls constantly being saved. A close friendship feel works just as well to illustrate :/

Bringing up LoAF again (>_<) , the close friendship rather than a romance is what I'm aiming at now.

Not everyone is Snowy or Ether Kanami. Just because they're pretty loud about it doesn't mean the rest of us are.

BTW, go look up CAFE on the Wonderstadium '99 boards on Gamefaqs. It'll make you laugh and want kill yourself.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Laughing Unicorn

[Kanami]

Cause that's the only type of love I've seen on the SF RP forums for the last year or so.

Think they're all from LoAF, other RP's don't stick around long enough for things like love and stuff to develop.

@Sage

Coming from my former stalker, that's not too convincing, in Snowy's case Phoenix was also strongly mixed in :/ And you people seem to forget that LoAF wasn't my first RP, and that I've been to other forums before. Small obsessive minds like yours can only think within confined spaces I see. :/

Edited March 2, 2011 by Kanami

[roymbrog]

@ CAFE

I second that

[roymbrog]

I've seen love handled well on some other forums, so rest assured that it's not always like that.

EDIT: I swear, I didn't mean to double post. It just sort of... happened.

Edited March 2, 2011 by roymbrog

[Dark Sage]

@Sage

Coming from my former stalker, that's not too convincing, in Snowy's case Phoenix was also strongly mixed in :/ And you people seem to forget that LoAF wasn't my first RP, and that I've been to other forums before. Small obsessive minds like yours can only think within confined spaces I see. :/

Well LoAF actually was my first RP and I pretty much RP exclusively here. But yeah, you would've seen something like that before :/. Ah well, here we have people like Cynthia to try to combat it.

[Kanami]

It's late, and I have nothing to do so I figure I might as well write up my thoughts on PP's action limit.

At the moment PP end and switches to EP at 6 actions. And I assume the current system would be to simply raise the 6 actions to something higher as more characters join the group. And while that would possibly work, I've been entertaining the idea of alternatives.

~The Complication~

A major concern of mine is that there'll be group that get little exp, while others will start raking it in. A current team would be Amon/Gytha/Synthia. Arguably the most active/successful characters in term of stat combat at the moment. While a supposed team of Axel/Chelsea/Nanahm would get very little due to their activity and/or timezones. Nanahm being the most active of the trio would be competing against the former 3 characters. And as time passes the discrepancy between a low activity party and a high active party would only worsen.

-Kanami plan~

My suggestion/idea comes in two parts.

＊To limit actions to 2 per squad. So in Group A (see above)＊

Amon and Gytha could attack, (or)

Gytha could attack and Synthia heal (or)

Amon could attack and Synthia heal

But all three making an action wouldn't be allowed

＊A team leader would be voted upon to control the others who aren't around＊

Obviously, this would be optional, and people could refuse to hand control over at all.

But the aim is to prevent "dead team mates" who simply aren't around for the battle. An example being (Group B) Nanahm (SlaveBlade) having the ability to use Chelsea (after receiving GoD's permission) to heal.

~Objectives~

-More selective team member choices.

The present model encourages RP'ers to choose other RP'ers who are highly active to be in their team for maximum gain. By allowing only two characters to "Act", the third member becomes more important. As groups like Domovoi/Amon/Gytha would render one team mate obsolete. (Though still a back up).

-Thinking and team discussion playing a more important role.

At present, the team which rolls the most dice or makes the most actions is easily going to be the strongest team (if they don't die). And there's nothing strategic about rushing into grab an "Action" before another team does. By making people think about which character gets priority and is more vital to the group excelling.

-Being left out sucks

It's kind of dull jumping in at the end and saying that your character was killing generics. (Non statted imaginary enemies) the whole time. And while you may still get the average, it's not really a good idea to attack anyone if the enemy's nearly been defeated. This leads onto the next point.

-0Exp and attacking seeming like a silly idea.

As explained above, a group which only has one active member isn't going to get far. If you log on and find that other teams have got 25exp, and your team is still on 0. Would you attack the last enemy for 5 exp, or would you rather remain silent and get the average?

This scenario is likely in the event that one guy attacks, but has to wait for his team mates to log on to complete the enemies death. By adding the second part (Voting on a leader) it significantly decreases the likelihood of this happening since someone should usually be around. And the first part (2 Action limit) would encourage the "active" people to spread out a bit more and not cluster up into one group.

-A team of two, versus a team of three (Equal potential, equal opportunity)

A team of two shouldn't be more disadvantaged then a group of three if fairness is to be considered. A group of two in the proposed idea would both be able to act, and hence has the same chances as a team of three. However a team of three retains its ability to make a choice (3rd team member) and they also have a reserve in the case of one of the characters being decapitated.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do acknowledge that there may be some complications with the above suggestion, and would like to discuss any issues people may have with it. And I'll add/remove/edit the idea to solve any issues. I'll start by raising a problem I just thought of XD

-Third member becoming obsolete, and hanging around with nothing to do.

Well Roy, Phoenix, (and maybe Slave) we were trying to work out a use for LUCK before. I think this would be a chance to give it a use besides items.

Using the same concept as a revive, the third character can roll (must be the RP controller, not an allocated leader) their Lck against an enemy targets Lck.

CLck - ELck = X

And if X is 1~6, then a role of a single dice may be used to determine whether a third action may be taken by the group. (Equal to, or more then X would result in a successive third strike)

Perhaps throw in that this is only available every other turn if it seems too over-powered?

Though if you don't think the third character becoming obsolete will be an issues, this point can be ignored....... and now it's my bed time :P I wonder how many people will actually read this and leave a response.

[-Cynthia-]

I would prefer allowing other team members to control each other rather than limiting actions, because limiting it to two actions per team isn't fun at all for the third person, as they're essentially being banned from stat combat by virtue of teammates existing. Sure, it works out well when only 2/3 of the people are around, but in other cases eh. I will admit that 2 combat teams being weaker than 3 combat teams would still be a problem, unless we only enter combat with a number of PCs divisible by 3. Also, the third person being unable to act would come off as pretty silly if they're the only team left.

Don't like the Lck idea really, since it's still a situational chance to not get an action (and relies upon the person with the highest Lck being left out the most, which is somewhat ironic). Lck could be more useful though. I wouldn't mind it negating crits (if Lck> attackers skill, cannot be criticaled or lethaled).

One team cannot dominate an entire PP because it's 6 actions, although I guess that just means that two teams can do all the fighting rather than just one. The number of PP posts could be increased, make it 7-8 so that at least 3 teams have to be involved (this # could be decreased in the case of lots of characters getting knocked down to 0). It's not a perfect solution, but it seems better to me than someone being forced to sit on the sidleines the whole fight because their allies are active.

Edited March 2, 2011 by -Cynthia-

[Kanami]

The thing regarding the above though is I don't actually think "All" Rp'ers are active :/ They aren't now, and I doubt they ever will be. So the last point about having someone sit out isn't really going to be as problematic as you seem to think as long as people don't cluster into groups of solely active people. I honestly doubt that Snike and GoD could be considered bad luck by anyones standards. (No offense but I wouldn't want them on my team either)Actually, I guess that was offensive, nyeh :/

I would prefer allowing other team members to control each other rather than limiting actions,

But going back to the first point now, that option is pretty silly :/ Giving people the option to control the characters of others doesn't work in RPing (since they'd rather make the character fade into the background out of fear of doing something wrong). And in the stat part it's silly for 1 person being able to use up 1/2 (or if increased 1/3) of the PP turns up because he/she has been given control of 2 other characters.

because limiting it to two actions per team isn't fun at all for the third person, as they're essentially being banned from stat combat by virtue of teammates existing. Sure, it works out well when only 2/3 of the people are around, but in other cases eh.

I'm not sure that being deprived of a roll is that big a deal. You're still getting the exp for any successful kills. (+heals/defs) and characters can still post their RP posts.

Furthermore, if the person is really that desperate to roll dice and calculate damage, creating a team of two is an open alternative. Since there's no "loss" in being a team of two in comparison to a team of three as long as you don't die. Which is sort of encouraged you know? Not reaching 0hp you know? :/

I will admit that 2 combat teams being weaker than 3 combat teams would still be a problem, unless we only enter combat with a number of PCs divisible by 3.

I'm not sure what you're saying at here, since the first part is regarding an issue with the current system,

Also, the third person being unable to act would come off as pretty silly if they're the only team left.

Again, the proposed model doesn't require you to be in a group of three to gain the best results. So if it seems silly to be the third wheel, pairing up might be the better alternative.

Don't like the Lck idea really, since it's still a situational chance to not get an action (and relies upon the person with the highest Lck being left out the most, which is somewhat ironic).

This isn't a new point, as it's mentioned above, so I'm just assuming this is here to illustrate that it's not much of a fix. Though situational is still motive to try.

Lck could be more useful though. I wouldn't mind it negating crits (if Lck> attackers skill, cannot be criticaled or lethaled).

I have suggested that, didn't get much of a reaction though from Phoenix and others present :/

One team cannot dominate an entire PP because it's 6 actions, although I guess that just means that two teams can do all the fighting rather than just one. The number of PP posts could be increased, make it 7-8 so that at least 3 teams have to be involved (this # could be decreased in the case of lots of characters getting knocked down to 0). It's not a perfect solution, but it seems better to me than someone being forced to sit on the side lines the whole fight because their allies are active.

Your entire argument is centered around someone having to sit out, this isn't true unless they opt to go into a group of three willingly. And sitting on the sidelines is already an existing problem with late come'ers. Furthermore, and increase to 7-8 PP turns, only addresses a fraction of the points listed. I'd also mention Phoenix asking the group if he can skip a PP turn because it'd been an hour or two and there was only 4~5 turns used up.

You're the GM (along with Phoenix) so if you don't like it, that's fine, but the "sitting out" statement just isn't true unless you want it to be.