Snowy_One Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Topic title. We all know and are highly familiar with the square-grid based system currently present in FE games. Would the series benefit by changing the familiar squares into a series of hexagons instead (as seen in Civ V)? My personal answer is yes. I believe that it would benefit greatly by changing. Firstly, it would allow for increased options for both the player and the enemy. More spaces too move, more openings, and more chances to employ strategy than with the current system. Also, it would increase the value of ranged attackers. Currently, if we have a choke point that is being blockaded by a defensive unit, only one ranged unit can stand behind him and can target only one square in front of the blocker. With hexes, it would be possible for two ranged units to stand behind a blocker and they would be capable of targeting two hexes in front of the blocker. A huge improvement. Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mousefire Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 eh, for some reason I don't see it working well with the mechanics Fire Emblem currently has. Maybe with it's mechanics overhauled, but I don't thin that's what you're going for. On the other hand, Berwick Saga apparently works well, but I don't know how much it's like Fire Emblem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I've never been a fan of hex-grids... hm. I probably wouldn't be interested in the game. Most hex-grid games just play and look funky :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I've thought of this before, actually. I never really came to a conclusion. For one, hexes would be weird for indoor maps. Sure it works for Civ V's continents and islands, but a straight hallway seems harder. Octagon makes more sense to me, personally. Didn't Berwick Saga have hexes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Octagon makes more sense to me, personally. You can't tile octagons by themselves. If you tiled octagons with squares and gave each octagon and square a movement cost of 1, the end result is the same as a square tile grid. Edited January 31, 2011 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 It could work well for indoor maps actually. Just designate a row of hexes 'walls' that travel in a straight line *more or less*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 hex grids are too puzzly, squares are easier to count and measure but other than that I see no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike-Mike Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I don't know, ask Berwick Saga. FE's sister series, Advance Wars, had hex grids in its Gameboy (Color) iterations too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YayMarsha Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Personally, I think switching to a hexagon grid would be a horrible idea. I've completed Berwick Saga twice, and while it is a good game, that grid just makes movement more complicated than it needs to be. Honestly, I think one of the reasons Fire Emblem is still going strong after all these years is because it has kept the same basic mechanics all series long ("If it isn't broken, don't fix it"). I've said it before, but the Langrisser series is a great example of messing with mechanics and then watching the series go downhill. :( (Not saying it couldn't work, by the way. Just saying I wouldn't like the change at all.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think a lot of fans would say the same. Fire Emblem seems to be a lot like Dragon Quest in that its the formula people get drawn into, more than anything else. It's like a reliable series :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiff Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 We've had about 20 years and 12 games with the same basic mechanics. I wouldn't be too angry about them trying something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordsalmon Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I've always detested hex grids. The square system works out very well; why change it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 The square grid has some advantages. The hex grid has some advantages. I just feel that the advantages offered by the hex-grid outweigh those offered by the square grid system if done properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thief Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Copying Berwick Saga now? No, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Watching a couple videos from the Berwick Saga, the square-grid system just looks much simpler and to the point than a hex-based system. Maybe if the had movement ranges for the enemies (I dunno if they do in Berwick) like in FE10-12, then I would probably be apathetic about it. Then again, if it ain't broke don't bother fixing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) While it'd be in interesting change, you would also have to change a lot of the core game mechanics, essentially giving you a completely different game. Edited February 1, 2011 by Saloma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 On the other hand, ranged users would at least appear more dangerous, with their range "increased" to compensate for the extra sides. Like in the GameBoy Wars, the hex grid seems a tad bit more realistic, but I never had fun with it in those games either--it felt awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashpoint_1230 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I don't think that FE would work as well with a hex-grid system, either. It would definitely mess up ranged units. Plus, squares are easier to deal with on lower-res screens like that of the DS. And Nintendo could take all of the development staff who'd be in charge of updating the control scheme and put their effort into LOCALIZING FE3DS! Of course, they're all too busy worrying about the 3DS, I bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Glenn Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) While hex-grids might seem more realistic in some scenarios (like the increased productivity of ranged attackers), they also have the downside that most structures and such naturally have right angles in them. (Which basically just says that they don't work for buildings.) What might work better might be a radius-based or free-movement movement system (a la Breath of Fire V, Valkyria Chronicles, Sakura Wars (3, 4, 5), etc.). Though, then the game would seem less Fire Emblem, I suppose... EDIT - And Nintendo could take all of the development staff who'd be in charge of updating the control scheme and put their effort into LOCALIZING FE3DS! Completely different teams. IS is based in Japan, while NoA handles the localization. There's absolutely no overlap. EDIT2 - Remembered something I was going to mention about the hex-grid system. If IS decided to be wildly different and produce a Fire Emblem title that was in some kind of underdeveloped nation/world with lots of open battlefields (think pre-colonized America, maybe?), then the hex-grid system might work nicely. Edited February 1, 2011 by Lord Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiff Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 EDIT2 - Remembered something I was going to mention about the hex-grid system. If IS decided to be wildly different and produce a Fire Emblem title that was in some kind of underdeveloped nation/world with lots of open battlefields (think pre-colonized America, maybe?), then the hex-grid system might work nicely. Most major battles of medieval Europe took place on open battlefields, right? I don't see why they'd even need to change the setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darros Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Most major battles of medieval Europe took place on open battlefields, right? I don't see why they'd even need to change the setting. But not in FE games. Only a few maps are completely open. Most have varied terrain, like water and forests, and some maps are even indoors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlylegato Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 gotta get in line with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" crowd. Breath of Fire Dragon quarter is what I'll site. BoF has long been one of my favorite series, and dragon quarter is the only RPG game that I've bought and never finished. Don't mess with a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 What if the hex grid was implemented with proper 3D models? 2D hex just seems bulky and awkward, but yet, it doesn't seem so out of place when the perspective can be toggled around six axes--or when the camera isn't essentially locked to an over-head view completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Glenn Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) Hex-grids and 3-D map space would likely work much better than in 2-D (though, that's only because of the camera as you mentioned, since they're fundamentally identical), but I think you'd still run into issues with buildings and such, because of all of the right angles. In order for a building to work with hex-grids, I'd wager that one would almost need to map out the grid of tiles first and then create the map around it (think of Yggdra Union's map structure, maybe). I still think that something like a free-movement system where you either have a radius to move around in or some kind of counter that keeps track of how far you can move on the map (again, see Valkyria Chronicles) might be the best way to change up the series. (At the very least, it changes how one might think about strategy, since some tactical formations that work with square grids would become invalid.) Edited February 3, 2011 by Lord Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geriba Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 The square grid has some advantages. The hex grid has some advantages. I just feel that the advantages offered by the hex-grid outweigh those offered by the square grid system if done properly. Could you explain the advantages of a hex system? A square-grid setup seems to carry the following benefits compared to the alternative: -Easier to visualize attack ranges -Easier to map out strategies several turns in advance What does the hex system offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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