Florete Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) If you don't believe my "story", then look in my first try in the Fe10 ranked characters draft, or the Fe10 Hard mode draft tournamentI realize now I even had Rolf thrown into that mix in the latter case. Good units like that bail out bad picks. As a response to how she makes up turns, I now have a unit with Canto, who doubles with a level of bexp, and has better move than my other units. In a different run using Titania and those three units, I managed to 7 turn. I believe your story. But I don't believe she saved you 7 turns. What I'm really wondering now is why this game is so special as to have this rule. I'm not even opposed to it existing more, I just want to know why it's only here. And no, none of your answers to this point suffice. Edited April 16, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 I wonder the same thing, I've honestly just been guessing and trying to make reason of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 It's on FE5 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) Unless I'm mistaken, this game has different penalties than the others because it was the first one to be drafted (On GameFAQs. FE7 was the original here, I believe). I haven't played FE 5 so I don't know about that one. Anyway, I'm just chiming in to say this: There should be nothing wrong with someone using an undrafted unit at the cost of a penalty to make a chapter easier/possible, since that's why penalties exist. Obviously we have to make sure that a player doesn't end up with a net gain of turns by using an undrafted unit (this happened in the FE6 HM draft). However, the argument 'Letting players deploy undrafted characters will let them off of the hook by making the chapter easier.' is wrong. Edited April 16, 2011 by Radiant Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) Unless I'm mistaken, this game has different penalties than the others because it was the first one to be drafted (On GameFAQs. FE7 was the original here, I believe). I haven't played FE 5 so I don't know about that one. Anyway, I'm just chiming in to say this: There should be nothing wrong with someone using an undrafted unit at the cost of a penalty to make a chapter easier/possible, since that's why penalties exist. Obviously we have to make sure that a player doesn't end up with a net gain of turns by using an undrafted unit (this happened in the FE6 HM draft). However, the argument 'Letting players deploy undrafted characters will let them off of the hook by making the chapter easier.' is wrong. That argument is actually correct. I think you meant an argument of letting players deploy undrafted characters for a set penalty equal to the amount of turns they would be save would be letting them off is wrong. Edited April 16, 2011 by Xander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 That argument is actually correct. I think you meant an argument of letting players deploy undrafted characters for a set penalty equal to the amount of turns they would be save would be letting them off is wrong. No, I mean it should be fine for a player to use undrafted units to make a chapter easier on themselves as long as they don't end up with a net gain of turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 But it is actually letting them off easy, in a way, by giving them an easier time then they would have had, so in that way, the argument is correct. I personally like this way of drafting better, as do Ulki and Yugloshi. Maybe in the future when someone tries to start another RD draft they can use those rules about deploying undrafted units, but it seems the general consensus is that this way of drafting is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) But it is actually letting them off easy, in a way, by giving them an easier time then they would have had, so in that way, the argument is correct. I personally like this way of drafting better, as do Ulki and Yugloshi. Maybe in the future when someone tries to start another RD draft they can use those rules about deploying undrafted units, but it seems the general consensus is that this way of drafting is fine. That's the point. Penalties exist for making a difficult chapter easier/possible for the player at the cost of taking more turns. Regardless, I'm not trying to say you should change the rules for this draft. Edited April 16, 2011 by Radiant Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Xander, point is not everyone is awesome enough to get that much benefit from those units. Case in point: 2-2. Do you really expect me to do that with a grand total of Lucia and Leanne? It's not 'poor drafting' if I sent in a list of picks, which would have been modified accordingly seeing as I got so few Part 2 units, but as I had a list I couldn't really do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) Xander, point is not everyone is awesome enough to get that much benefit from those units. Case in point: 2-2. Do you really expect me to do that with a grand total of Lucia and Leanne? It's not 'poor drafting' if I sent in a list of picks, which would have been modified accordingly seeing as I got so few Part 2 units, but as I had a list I couldn't really do so. You know in 2-2 you have a bunch of forced undrafted units, so why bring that chapter up? You can just take as many penalties as you want. I'm not insulting your picks by the way, so no need to get defensive. I said that there was no reason to have such a rule as it's unnecessary. I'm not awesome, so I know for a fact you don't have to be a good player to avoid using undrafted units. Edit: Heck, I don't know why you seem to want the rule instituted so badly. Part 2 is a joke anyway, and in every single chapter you have forced, undrafted units you can use to complete the chapters. Just ask me if you need help. Edited April 16, 2011 by Xander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Unless I'm remembering terribly, isn't Lucia the only forced person in 2-2? ;/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) You are remembering terribly. Look at the OP to see how many forced units there are.. Edited April 16, 2011 by Xander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 2 : Lucia (4) Everyone else (3) ... really helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 2 : Lucia (4) Everyone else (3) ... really helpful. Everyone else: Nephenee, Brom, Heather, Leanne, Nealuchi, Lethe, Mordecai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) Okay Rein, there is Lethe, Mordecai, Leanne, Nealuchi, Brom, Nephenee, and possibly Heather who are all forced in 2-2. Are you satisfied yet? If not what do you want? I'd advise you to actually play through the game and know it a bit better before you complain about the rules. Edited April 16, 2011 by Xander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 All them are forced? dear lord I haven't played this in forever :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuglyoshi Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 You don't get a battle prep screen in that chapter, so all the units you have are deployed automatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silith Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) The forced units are in almost any case enough to beat the chapters. ( I can't think of one that can't be done with forced off the top of my hat) If that means turtling for 30 turns in certain chapters so be it. That's the fun of drafting. Edited April 16, 2011 by Silith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 You don't get a battle prep screen in that chapter, so all the units you have are deployed automatically. Oh, right, no battle prep. That's 2-3. Whoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 I'd like to add that undrafted units can rescue other undrafted units, since it wasn't clear in the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) I, frankly, am in agreement with RF on this one. I don't see the point of not changing the rule. If you make every undrafted, unforced unit into a 4-5 turn penalty, you wouldn't have to worry about it be "unfair" if crappy units are on parity with good units (because the crappy units will never be used in that circumstance) and the loss in turncount is enough to deter the use of even good units. Furthermore, I'd contend that it adds a bit of strategy into drafting if you can actually minimize losses through using undrafted, unforced units. You can strategically draft around planning to use such a unit in a certain map, taking a penalty, while having a lower turncount than what you would get without using that character. Obviously, this is only going to be the case in a select few maps, but I think it would help the drafting metagame if the participants had more viable decisions to make rather than being confined unconditionally to a certain group of units. I don't know. I could just be preaching to the choir. But I definitely think that this is a viable consideration, especially since drafts currently only reward good decision making in the drafting process, and there is hardly any decision making to consider in the actual play process because this game has been dissected to the point where everyone knows the same low turn strategies for every map. Lastly, I find it exceedingly strange that penalties exist, yet there is a limit on how the penalties are applied. Edited April 17, 2011 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 Silith has already started and obviously she would not be too pleased, so I'm not changing the rule. Maybe in future drafts, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 My transfers Boyd -- Hp, Str, Skl, Spd Rolf -- STR, Spd Tauroneo -- HP, Str Haar -- STR, Skl, Spd, Def Tormod -- Mag, Spd Tanith -- Str, Spd, Skl Lucia -- Str Geoffrey -- Spd Ilyana -- Mag, Skl, Spd, Res Sothe -- 38 hp, 20 str, 20 skl, 20 spd, 21 lck, 17 def, 13 res Tormod and Sothe bond Lucia and Ilyana bond Tauroneo and Rolf bond Ike and soren bond (kind of overdue) My ike failed... he had str, skl, spd, res to transfer, however, he ended up with 18.73... Ii thought he'd level while figthing ashnard, but guess what, the turn after i hit, i decide i'd let ashnard heal... however Ike aethers when ashnard hits. I decided to just let it be. I might try again as i have another save where they are in base but i doubt it. I was planning to transfer neph too, but she died the chapter before ashnard, and she wouldn't have reached 20/20 anyway. I shall start my pt of RD, next weekend most likely, the week seems busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 I've also gotten my transfers done. I'll probably be using these for this run as well as my next efficiency playthrough. They are: Ike - Hp, Str, Skill, Sp, Def, Res Elincia - Mag, Skill Kieran - Hp, Str, Skill, Sp, Def Reyson - Mag, Skill, Sp Nephenee - Str, Skill, Sp, Def Callil - Mag, Sp Titania - Str, Skill, Sp Geoffrey - Sp, Def Oscar - Hp, Str, Skill, Sp, Def, Res Giffca - Str Soren - Mag, Skill, Sp, Res Sothe - 39, 20, 7, 20, 20, 21, 20, 15 Tanith - Skill, Sp Ulki - Str, Def Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 This is torture... 1-P 8 turns + 3 = 11 in a streak of luck, after many resets, eddy wraths boss, miccy hits, eddy kills. 1-1 9 turns + 3 = 12 I damn miccy's frailty, Nolan's lack of more speed, and overall bunch of enemies. I did get hand axe for whatever its worth. 1-2 8 turns + 3 = 11 Nolan goes west, and stays there blocking, miccy kills scraps from nolan. Turn 3 sothe goes down, and kills a figther, on turn four he goes up and clears the top. Afterwards he gets energy drop. Nolan and miccy team up and get thani. 1-3 9 turns + 2 = 11 Ily penalty. Yay aran [/sarcastic]. Anywho, kurth blocks on the top i go RHS. 1-4 comment Aran got the energy and draco, and an iron forge with max mt/crit. He still gets 2hko, by the tiger up north >_>, if he crits i'm dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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