Whitefang Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Welcome, friends, to what I believe to be the very first Auction Draft Challenge! I've been thinking about this idea for a while, and I hope it works. I found a thread kicking the idea around, and it confirmed a few concerns that I had about the format. I believe that I have a way to make this work. If you don't want to play FE7, don't worry, I might consider running a similar challenge for another game (if you have a request, let it be heard). Why normal mode? It's an untested concept. I want to see if the results are close and if this is worthwhile as a continuing format. Why a Vickrey auction? This will provide incentive for everyone to bid a unit's true value, and it should also ensure that everyone has some virtual money to play with every round. This also doesn't require everyone to be present at the same time as in an English or Dutch auction. Why is Marcus available? He should cost more money, so the question is what is his value? Is he worth grabbing even though you'll have a smaller team than the other players? Before we get to the fun stuff, here are the rules: Your objective is to get the lowest turn count. Should two players tie, the player with the most auction points remaining will be the winner. If still tied, the player with the fewest drafted units will be victorious. Free characters and allowed actions Hector and Athos are free for all players. And Merlinus, obviously. Marcus is free to use up to and including Chapter 16. He is banned in Chapter 17 and onward. Lyn, Wil, Kent, and Sain are free to use in Chapter 16. Thieves may obtain necessary promotion items if undrafted. They may search for treasure in the desert like other undrafted units. Undrafted characters may trade with drafted characters and recruit other characters. They may help find hidden treasure in the desert. They may also shop, and they can rescue each other. And they can move, but hopefully that's obvious. (They specifically cannot visit villages, except to recruit) Any other actions taken by undrafted characters results in a 4 turn penalty for each character (maximum once per map per character). Gaidens 23x is prohibited (19xx is impossible) 28x is optional and will not affect your turncount if completed in 20 turns or less. All others are forced NO LYN MODE The draft! The draft format will be a sealed-bid second-price auction (I'm linking it again in case you missed it earler). A group of characters will be presented for auction, and you will PM me with your bids for each character. The total of your bids may not exceed your current total auction points. The player who presents the highest bid for a character will win the character, and will pay a number of auction points equal to the value of the second highest bid. Ties will be decided randomly, unless one player has won more ties than the other, in which case the other player will win the tie. You begin with 100 auction points. To keep you on your toes, I will not reveal the results of each auction, so you will not know how many auction points are available to each other player, nor will you know who has won the character. I will let you know if you won, and how much you spent, so that you can plan for subsequent characters. I will try to avoid having like characters in the same auction, so expect the Paladins to be split up, as well as the fliers, etc. Auction is done When you sign up, please state whether or not you think that multiple units should be put up for auction at the same time. There will be 5 teams for this challenge. (as it is a sealed auction format, I cannot participate) 1. Radiant Kitty - Farina, Erk, Fiora, Raven, Serra, Matthew 2. Janissary - Priscilla, Dorcas, Lowen, Louise, Oswin, Legault, Renault 3. Quintessence - Lucius, Dart, Rebecca, Florina, Wallace 4. Shibeebaba - Harken, Sain, Rath, Jaffar, Bartre, Karla, Canas, Lyn, Heath, Nino 5. General_Horace- Ninian, Nils, Kent, Eliwood, Isadora, Hawkeye, Pent Edited August 7, 2011 by Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Radiant Dragon (Kitty) Chapter 11 Chapter 12 Chapter 13 Chapter 13x Chapter 14 Chapter 15 Chapter 16 Chapter 17 Chapter 17x Chapter 18 Chapter 19 Chapter 19x Chapter 20 Chapter 21 Chapter 22 Chapter 23 Chapter 24A/B Chapter 25 Chapter 26 Chapter 27A/B Chapter 28 Chapter 28x Chapter 29 Chapter 30 Chapter 31 Chapter 31x Chapter 32 Chapter 32x Final Janissary Chapter 11 Chapter 12 Chapter 13 Chapter 13x Chapter 14 Chapter 15 Chapter 16 Chapter 17 Chapter 17x Chapter 18 Chapter 19 Chapter 19x Chapter 20 Chapter 21 Chapter 22 Chapter 23 Chapter 24A/B Chapter 25 Chapter 26 Chapter 27A/B Chapter 28 Chapter 28x Chapter 29 Chapter 30 Chapter 31 Chapter 31x Chapter 32 Chapter 32x Final Quintessence (22 turns at Chapter 13x) Chapter 11 - 8 turns Chapter 12 - 5 turns Chapter 13 - 9 turns Chapter 13x Chapter 14 Chapter 15 Chapter 16 Chapter 17 Chapter 17x Chapter 18 Chapter 19 Chapter 19x Chapter 20 Chapter 21 Chapter 22 Chapter 23 Chapter 24A/B Chapter 25 Chapter 26 Chapter 27A/B Chapter 28 Chapter 28x Chapter 29 Chapter 30 Chapter 31 Chapter 31x Chapter 32 Chapter 32x Final Shibeebaba Chapter 11 Chapter 12 Chapter 13 Chapter 13x Chapter 14 Chapter 15 Chapter 16 Chapter 17 Chapter 17x Chapter 18 Chapter 19 Chapter 19x Chapter 20 Chapter 21 Chapter 22 Chapter 23 Chapter 24A/B Chapter 25 Chapter 26 Chapter 27A/B Chapter 28 Chapter 28x Chapter 29 Chapter 30 Chapter 31 Chapter 31x Chapter 32 Chapter 32x Final General Horace (16 turns at Chapter 13x) Chapter 11 - 7 turns Chapter 12 - 4 turns Chapter 13 - 5 turns Chapter 13x - Chapter 14 Chapter 15 Chapter 16 Chapter 17 Chapter 17x Chapter 18 Chapter 19 Chapter 19x Chapter 20 Chapter 21 Chapter 22 Chapter 23 Chapter 24A/B Chapter 25 Chapter 26 Chapter 27A/B Chapter 28 Chapter 28x Chapter 29 Chapter 30 Chapter 31 Chapter 31x Chapter 32 Chapter 32x Final Edited August 15, 2011 by Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) 1. Whoever gets Marcus wins. The likelihood of the person who drafts Marcus to have a team so anemic that drafting him isn't worth it is almost nil. Make him free for all, and banned after a certain point like he should be. You may not deploy undrafted characters unless required in order to recruit a new character.Deployed characters may not interact with drafted characters in any way (this includes trading to change an equipped weapon on a drafted character). 2. I disagree with these rules; There's no point whatsoever for them. Why shouldn't I be allowed to trade Guy's Killing Edge to Eliwood? Why shouldn't I be allowed to deploy Matthew in a FoW map so I can get a jump on the enemies on the first turn? It's not like either of these are gamebreaking, massive turn saving actions. 3. Why are forced characters free? That massively devalues quite a few of them. 4. Why are the Thieves allowed to steal and open Doors/Chests if undrafted? Why would I want to draft a Thief, then? Just let them be free to steal/open the chests with necessary (by necessary, I mean stealing Oleg's Hero Crest just to sell it because you have no one that can use it shouldn't be allowed) promotion items, if that's your worry. 5. Why are multiple characters up for auction at the same time? Wouldn't it make more sense just to auction one at a time as usual? 6. Have you considered making Lyn, Kent, Sain and Wil free for Chapter 16? It's not like they'll be saving you any turns there, and it prevents people from having to take penalties to meatshield. 7. I want to join, once everything gets straightened out. I've be meaning to set something like this up for a while now. Edited July 23, 2011 by Radiant Kitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) 1. Whoever gets Marcus wins. The likelihood of the person who drafts Marcus to have a team so anemic that drafting him isn't worth it is almost nil. Make him free for all, and banned after a certain point like he should be. I'm not so sure. I understand the concern and I will take this into consideration. It is part of the reason why force-deploy characters are free to use. 2. I disagree with these rules; There's no point whatsoever for them. Why shouldn't I be allowed to trade Guy's Killing Edge to Eliwood? Why shouldn't I be allowed to deploy Matthew in a FoW map so I can get a jump on the enemies on the first turn? It's not like either of these are gamebreaking, massive turn saving actions. You are allowed to do all the things you mentioned in the current rules and you would be allowed to do them if we made the rules more conventional as well. I could make this clearer, but I'll probably just go back to the more clear-cut standard draft rules, per your suggestion. 3. Why are forced characters free? That massively devalues quite a few of them. Mainly because of the first 3 chapters 4. Why are the Thieves allowed to steal and open Doors/Chests if undrafted? Why would I want to draft a Thief, then? Just let them be free to steal/open the chests with necessary (by necessary, I mean stealing Oleg's Hero Crest just to sell it because you have no one that can use it shouldn't be allowed) promotion items, if that's your worry. Eh, I guess it's so that they can counter and be attacked without penalty. But you are right, they have more value if they are allowed to do fewer things if undrafted. I will probably change this. 5. Why are multiple characters up for auction at the same time? Wouldn't it make more sense just to auction one at a time as usual? I have a feeling the draft would take forever if we did this one unit at a time. There are up to 40 draft-able characters. My current vision is either 5 blocks of 8 characters or 8 blocks of 5 characters. 6. Have you considered making Lyn, Kent, Sain and Wil free for Chapter 16? It's not like they'll be saving you any turns there, and it prevents people from having to take penalties to meatshield. They would be allowed under the current rules (they are considered force deployed). If I changed that, I would allow them to be used. 7. I want to join, once everything gets straightened out. I've be meaning to set something like this up for a while now. Cool, I will definitely make sure that the players have the rules that they want to play under. There's no point otherwise. Edited July 23, 2011 by Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) You are allowed to do all the things you mentioned in the current rules and you would be allowed to do them if we made the rules more conventional as well. I could make this clearer, but I'll probably just go back to the more clear-cut standard draft rules, per your suggestion. How does 'not interact with drafted characters' let Guy (if undrafted) trade his stuff to Eliwood (if drafted)? How does 'you may not deploy undrafted characters' let me deploy Matthew (if undrafted)? Mainly because of the first 3 chapters This is one of the many reasons Marcus is (should be...) free for all. Also, if someone doesn't draft any of the starting characters, they probably deserve to take penalties early on (there are more than enough of them). Eh, I guess it's so that they can counter and be attacked without penalty. But you are right, they have more value if they are allowed to do fewer things if undrafted. I will probably change this. Wait, they would even be allowed to fight too? So they would essentially be free if even one enemy had a stealable Vulnerary? I have a feeling the draft would take forever if we did this one unit at a time. There are up to 40 draft-able characters. It wouldn't take that much longer than usual, and you can combine Bartre and Karla to make it 38 (with Marcus free). And if someone doesn't get Eliwood and Lyn, we can skip Geitz. Edited July 23, 2011 by Radiant Kitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 How does 'not interact with drafted characters' let Guy (if undrafted) trade his stuff to Eliwood (if drafted)? How does 'you may not deploy undrafted characters' let me deploy Matthew (if undrafted)? Because Guy is free the chapter you recruit him per the current rules. However, you make some valid points, and I will just use the standard draft rules. This is one of the many reasons Marcus is (should be...) free for all. Also, if someone doesn't draft any of the starting characters, they probably deserve to take penalties early on (there are more than enough of them). Fair enough. Wait, they would even be allowed to fight too? So they would essentially be free if even one enemy had a stealable Vulnerary? No, it seems I'm not being clear. In my original ruleset, a thief being engaged in combat while undrafted would result in a 4 turn penalty. It wouldn't take that much longer than usual, and you can combine Bartre and Karla to make it 38 (with Marcus free). And if someone doesn't get Eliwood and Lyn, we can skip Geitz. Well, I'm willing to give it a shot, I just thought that some people might have this concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 Ok, draft rules are changed. Hopefully this addresses the concerns that have been brought up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Marcus is free to use up to and including Chapter 19x. Since this is Normal Mode, Marcus being free up to the end of Chapter 16 should be fine, since almost half of the characters are available at that point (Canas is the 50% point, if I recall correctly), and reduces the number of chapters that are trivialized by him. This should be left to public opinion, though. Thieves may open chests. I still think it's best to allow them to obtain only necessary promotion items if undrafted, since I can't think of anything else that would be worth making them free for (not even the Member Card). Undrafted characters may trade with drafted characters and recruit other characters. They may help find hidden treasure in the desert. (Did I miss anything? Will you allow them to shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 I will let the other drafters weigh in on when the Marcus cutoff point should be. I will allow thieves to only obtain necessary promotion items. (I thought about it, and there are a lot of items that make drafting thieves valuable). Though they may search for treasure in the desert even if it is unnecessary. Undrafteds may shop, but may not visit villages (except to recruit). They may also rescue each other, which helps with 13x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Yeah, I agree Thieves should be allowed for the desert (I'm not sure why though... I just feel that that should be allowed...). I had forgotten about rescuing, so thanks for clarifying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) I vote for no Marcus after chapter 20 and I will join. Multiple characters of varying tier placement at once would be nice. Edited July 23, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I vote for no Marcus after chapter 20 Why does he need to be free that long? Just because it's the 'half-way' point? I suppose Uhai is a pain without him, but he shouldn't be that bad. Multiple characters of varying tier placement at once would be nice. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I thought this auction would be different, so now I've an Idea. 8D Thank you! (Not starting a draft with that idea and nor participating here btw) Just a regular auction, and you can bid with Turns. 8D LEt's say one wants to have Pent, person A bids 1 turn, person B 2, etc etc. PEnt is sold for 8 Turns, the person who has PEnt has a starting Turncount of 8. 8D How many turns are you willing to start with for a better character? Anywaaaaay, have fun here. ;o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 The idea of bidding with turns is really good, indeed. I want to join, it sounds nice. I vote for no Marcus after Ch. 16, Lyn and her comrades come by that chapter and the respective teams should be bold enough. I go for a character at a time, but if this option is excluded, then 8 blocks of 5 as it appears in the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 I thought about bidding with turns, but then you have to have a mechanism where people aren't throwing out huge numbers just to draft all the characters. I mean, even if you have a million turn handicap, that doesn't matter if no one else has any units... 2 votes for 1 character at a time 1 vote for multiple characters at a time 2 votes for Marcus banned after Ch. 16 1 vote for Marcus banned after Ch. 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I thought about bidding with turns, but then you have to have a mechanism where people aren't throwing out huge numbers just to draft all the characters. I mean, even if you have a million turn handicap, that doesn't matter if no one else has any units... 2 votes for 1 character at a time 1 vote for multiple characters at a time 2 votes for Marcus banned after Ch. 16 1 vote for Marcus banned after Ch. 20. I would be cool with Marcus banned entirely, but if he's going to be played, I think he should be played far enough so that Aion and Uhai don't piss us all off. I would prefer multiple units because that would move the draft a little faster + create more choices about how to bid IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I thought about bidding with turns, but then you have to have a mechanism where people aren't throwing out huge numbers just to draft all the characters. I mean, even if you have a million turn handicap, that doesn't matter if no one else has any units... 2 votes for 1 character at a time 1 vote for multiple characters at a time 2 votes for Marcus banned after Ch. 16 1 vote for Marcus banned after Ch. 20. That is easily prevented by a maximum amount of units one can draft. One can bid one the characters he wants, once he has had his 11 units or w/e, he can no longer draft units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) They are 8 for each drafter, indeed. By the way, you're right VS, as soon as someone has drafted his/her characters, he/she is forced to retreat and let the other drafters continue, I assume. Whether points or turns...ummm, let's buy characters with credit card then. Bidding with turns is a double-edged blade, and no cav or peg, pal or wyvern isn't worth 10 turns or so, because then, each drafter must prudently calculate if that unit saves x quantity of turns that the winner has bid for him/her. For example, if "Flowerina and Makar" is the next character in the auction, then I bid 11 turns for her. Previously, I must have calculated, slightly, if Flory and Makar saves those 11 turns you had bade for her. All in all, I take back what I said, and I vote for bidding with points$$$ . What is thy bidding, Whitefang? Edited July 23, 2011 by Quintessence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 I don't think we need to impose a character limit in this draft. I'll let RD and Janissary weigh in, though, as well as whoever signs up in the future. And yes, the plan is to use 100 points with which to draft your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I don't think we need to impose a character limit in this draft. I'll let RD and Janissary weigh in, though, as well as whoever signs up in the future. And yes, the plan is to use 100 points with which to draft your team. Well I guess $points$ also limit our choices. I assume LHM is a must, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 I don't think Lyn's mode should be necessary. The main competition is Hector's Normal Mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I don't think Lyn's mode should be necessary. The main competition is Hector's Normal Mode. Ok. This changes the situation a bit. I was starting to have some units in mind, and...hmmm...Pent is before the last one, this auction will be REALLY interesting. I must manage my funds wisely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 There should be no need to put a cap on the number of character you buy since points do that for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I would be cool with Marcus banned entirely, but if he's going to be played, I think he should be played far enough so that Aion and Uhai don't piss us all off. Marcus banned entirely would only make earlygame more frustrating than it needs to be, while banning him after Chapter 16 makes sure that each drafter has a large enough team to handle themselves. I don't think Aion and Uhai are so annoying in NM that having him free that long would be beneficial, and it would only serve to devalue some of the early joining units. I agree on Points > Turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Aion is ORKO by an average-blessed Hector, if need, equip Silver Axe and "Thunder, hear my cry" is stricken by Boah's Thoron, lol... Uhai is a bit tougher than Aion, but by that time, the units in play must be strong enough to defeat him...unless you have a team with Hector, Serra, Lucy, Priscy, Canas, maybe Erk and Flowerina...lulz. However HNM is not hard, even HHM isn't extremely tough, just need to be RNG blessed and have good strategies. Last time, I was in HHM chapter 29, a battlefield full of spellcasters, but I deleted it because Priscy was ridiculously RNG screwed with a 16 spd and res. Now I'm renewing my play through. Edited July 24, 2011 by Quintessence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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