Realistic SSB4 Roster vs. Your SSB4 Roster

[Randoman]

So, being completely realistic about this, what do you think the SSB4 character roster will consist of? How does it compare with the roster you'd want in SSB4?

The original 12 (Mario, Donkey King, Link, Samus, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Ness, Jigglypuff) and 8 melee veterans (Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Ice Climbers, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Falco, Ganondorf) I'm practically 100% sure are in. As for returning Brawl characters, I'm quite sure Wario, Olimar, Pit, Meta Knight (if they don't remove him for being too cheap, and good riddance if he is), King Dedede, Lucas, and Diddy Kong will return, seeing how they're quite iconic for their game series. As for Pokemon Trainer and Ike, I could see both of them getting the boot: Pokemon Trainer because there's too many 1st Generation Pokemon playable (and I see him as a representative for the 3rd Gen games, what with FireRed and LeafGreen at the time) and Ike because he's no longer from the most current Fire Emblem, similarly to Roy (I could see Sheeda or Hardin replacing him since FE11 and FE12 are the most current FEs). Lucario, is also not current and would probably get replaced with Zoroark. R.O.B. is likely staying, since like Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch, he's a retro character, and they stayed in Brawl. Wolf is likely staying as well. As for Toon Link, I'm hoping he gets removed (I don't see why Link should have two versions of himself as playable characters. Even if they are two different characters from different time periods, it's still Link), but he likely won't be seeing how he's in three games already. Or maybe different versions of all playable characters will be implemented in SSB4 and Link and Toon Link (as well as whatever versions of Link are added) will only take up one spot. Seeing how Sakurai wanted to make characters customisable, I think this is what he's leaning towards. I'd be okay with that. As for Sonic the Hedgehog and Snake, I'd personally want to see them removed since I'd rather keep Smash Bros. Nintendo only (you don't see Bomberman in Konami Crazy Racers or Crash Bandicoot in Sonic and Sega All Star Racing), but I doubt they'll be, seeing how Sakurai is interested in adding more 3rd Parties, specifically from Capcom. Megaman is likely going in as a result (I'm against it, though not nearly as much as Sonic or Snake, since at least he's much closer to a Nintendo character than the other two).

Newcomers aside from Zoroark and Sheeda/Hardin (one of the two) would probably include Max (from Kid Icarus Uprising. Also, seeing how Sakurai was making the game, I think he'll do it out of personal preference), Toad (following the pattern of polls asking which Mario character was wanted in Smash Bros, which was in order: Bowser, Peach, Wario, Toad, ...), a new retro character (I guessed Balloon Fighter/Urban Champion for Brawl, and I got that wrong), Bandanna Dee (no maybe not. Toad going from a special move to a character makes sense given his prevalence in the Mario series, but a Waddle Dee doesn't), and... I don't really know who else, seeing how quite a few characters who I thought would make it in Brawl weren't in it.

tl;dr (too long didn't read)? Here's a list to simplify:

Realistic SSB4 Roster:

Mario

Donkey Kong

Link

Samus (keeping Zero Suit Samus)

Yoshi

Kirby

Fox

Pikachu

Luigi

Captain Falcon

Ness

Jigglypuff

Bowser

Peach

Zelda (still with Sheik transformation)

Ice Climbers

Marth

Mr. Game & Watch

Falco

Ganondorf

Meta Knight

Pit

Wario

Lucas

Diddy Kong

King Dedede

Olimar

R.O.B.

Toon Link

Wolf

Snake

Sonic

Zoroark

Max

Sheeda/Hardin (only one of the two)

Toad

(New Retro Character)

I can't think of any other characters that I'm really sure are in.

As for my personal SSB4 roster:

Realistic SSB4 Roster:

Mario

Donkey Kong

Link

Samus (no Zero Suit Samus)

Yoshi

Kirby

Fox

Pikachu

Luigi

Captain Falcon

Ness

Jigglypuff

Bowser

Peach

Zelda (without Sheik transformation)

Ice Climbers

Marth

Mr. Game & Watch

Falco

Ganondorf

Meta Knight (ridiculously weakened to beyond bottom tier, to compensate for how annoying he was in Brawl)

Pit

Wario

Lucas

Diddy Kong

King Dedede

Olimar

R.O.B.

Max

Zoroark

Toad

Rosalina

Sheeda

Hardin

Gooey (from Kirby's Dream Land 2 and 3)

King K. Rool

Sylux

Balloon Fighter(s)

Samurai Goroh

Dr. Stewart

Starfy

Gwonam

Richard Simmons

Bill Cosby

Rowan Atkinson (a.k.a. Mr. Bean)

...okay, okay, so the last four are joke characters. Just trying to brighten the topic up.

How about the rest of you?

[Xander]

How are Caeda and Hardin realistic? No other characters in SSB have mounts

[shadowofchaos]

How are Caeda and Hardin realistic? No other characters in SSB have mounts

The US release of FE12 is totally being delayed to match up to the release of SSB4, just like how Melee was with FE6

Yea--no, I don't see either of them being FE representatives, realistically. AT. ALL.

[The Blind Archer]

I wouldn't put any money on Snake or Sonic returning, to be honest. They were guest fighters, much like Link/Heihachi/Spawn in Soul Calibur II. I'm not expecting them to return. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do, but I'm not expecting anything. As far as third party guests go, Niitsuma of Capcom mentioned the idea of a Nintendo and Capcom crossover to Iwata a few months ago. Could be saying we'll get a Capcom rep, but that'd be reading too deep between the lines.

Watch as it's Ryu/Ken instead of MegaMan

As far as "realistic" goes, I wouldn't be surprised if Marth was suddenly the only FE representative (I think it's very much possible that Magnus from KI: Uprising could replace Ike as a heavy swordsman, should they want one). Hell, I'd be even less surprised if FE was axed from the playable roster entirely. I could totally see someone like Takamaru (Nazo no Murasame Jo) replacing him, especially thanks to a recent playable appearance in Samurai Warriors 3. Outside of the "hardcore" Smash Bros. scene, Fire Emblem has lost its mainstream international appeal, and the mainstream audience is what fuels character choices in these games; we get the main character(s) first, then we get the ensemble darkhorse characters... as assists.

Now that I think about it, look at the roster before; it's all basically been built around current trends, nostalgia, and advertisements (intentional or no). Ike is a current trend example, ROB is a nostalgia example, Roy was an advertisement, and Pit is a mix of nostalgia and advertisement. Look at some recent Nintendo titles to come out in the past year/are coming out (Sin & Punishment: Star Successor, Kid Icarus Uprising, The Rolling Western), and THEN you'll have a realistic idea for newcomers/reskins. Crossover games are all about marketing. If it isn't composed of things most people will recognize, then they won't buy. Games like Fire Emblem are not things target audience gamers will recognize; they recognize Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and new/upcoming releases (Again, S&P, KI, et al).

I've stopped making up my own dream rosters because I prefer to be surprised ("Oh, that's an interesting choice") rather than disappointed ("Why couldn't they have given me this obscure character nobody else knows about?"). Give us some kinda StarTropics representation, Nintendo ;-;

Edited August 1, 2011 by The Blind Archer

[Blademaster!]

As of this moment, the only truly realistic characters you should expect to see added on are:

Saki, from Sin And Punishment (They wanted him to be playable in SSBB. He had a new game come out and he was an AT in Brawl.)

Samurai Goroh (He was an AT in Brawl, and we could use another F-Zero rep)

Issac/Matthew (One of the two will definitely be in. Nintendo knows GS's potential as a series, and adding him to the game would help boost sales for the next GS, if one is ever made. Issac was an AT in brawl.)

A new pokemon (Likely Zoroark as you said, but who knows?)

The only Fire Emblem character I would expect to see in Brawl (other than Marth and maybe Ike) would be Lyn, or Micaiah if they wanted someone who isn't a swordsmen. And based on what you said about Max, I wouldn't be surprised if he is playable either.

As far as "realistic" goes, I wouldn't be surprised if Marth was suddenly the only FE representative (I think it's very much possible that Magnus from KI: Uprising could replace Ike as a heavy swordsman, should they want one). Hell, I'd be even less surprised if FE was axed from the playable roster entirely. I could totally see someone like Takamaru (Nazo no Murasame Jo) replacing him, especially thanks to a recent playable appearance in Samurai Warriors 3. Outside of the "hardcore" Smash Bros. scene, Fire Emblem has lost its mainstream international appeal, and the mainstream audience is what fuels character choices in these games; we get the main character(s) first, then we get the ensemble darkhorse characters... as assists.

Marth has been one of the most mainstream characters in the series since Melee, and is one of the few characters that has remained Top tier in every game he has appeared in. I doubt they would remove him from the game.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Blademaster!

[The Blind Archer]

International mainstream appeal. Ask your neighbor if he knows about Mario. Most likely, they'll say yes. Then ask them about Marth. Don't expect a yes.

If a person knows Marth, then they should know about Mario. However, if they know about Mario, that doesn't mean they know about Marth.

[whase]

I feel like Roy is getting a FE remake, since people liked him in melee. if he would, that would mean a definite yes for him in SSB4.

Marth definitely stays, and though I hope he stays too, I think Ike will leave.

as for the Link/Toon Link thing, I'm okay with toon link leaving, as long as a new character with about the same move set joins. I agree with the OP about the fact link shouldn't have 2 entries, but Toon link is my best unit. Zelda and Ganondorf will most likely stay too, though I hope they change their move sets at least a bit.

also, I hope if they make megaman join, they'd give him an original moveset. because I can't think of a good, full move set they could give him.

that's pretty much all games I've played multiple games of. probably the only games I ever finished.

[Vicious Sal]

Go Black Knight for SSB4 8

Nephenee or Aran, I'd reaaly like, since it's FE but no sword. Boyd/Nolan is great too. Something like that.

Keep toon Link. He's the best.

Wario is repulsive imo, and should leave.

Meh, Zoroark probably indeed. The rest is... Care.

[Kaoz]

International mainstream appeal. Ask your neighbor if he knows about Mario. Most likely, they'll say yes. Then ask them about Marth. Don't expect a yes.

If a person knows Marth, then they should know about Mario. However, if they know about Mario, that doesn't mean they know about Marth.

And then you think about what you just said, and recognize that that's the reason the Mario series has 4 slots, will possibly get a 5th one and then all the spin offs with Yoshi and Wario, whereas FE has 2 slots at the moment.

Secondly, what you just said could be said about quite a few other series, Earthbound and F-Zero come to mind, maybe others.

Lastly, never in the history of smash bros did a franchise actually lose slots (sure, the reps changed but the slots for a franchise stayed the same at least), I don't see why FE should be the first one.

In conclusion, I agree with you that Ike might not return because of the KI guy, but the chances that Marth is cut are next to 0. Furthermore, in the case Ike is cut, I expect someone like Roy or Lyn (or a new lord) to get the slot.

[Randoman]

How are Caeda and Hardin realistic? No other characters in SSB have mounts

If Fox could fight hand to hand in Smash Bros. 64 without an airwing (and without Star Fox Adventures showing he's a good melee fighter), then I'm pretty sure that Sheeda and Hardin can fight with lances and/or swords without a pegasus/horse.

As for being reasonable characters representation wise, I know it seems a little unreasonable since it's mutiple characters from the same FE game, but FE11 and 12 are the most current FEs and based on the pattern Melee and Brawl followed (Roy in Melee since FE6 was coming out, Ike in Brawl since FE9 and 10 were the current FEs), it can only be deduced that an Akanean FE character will be in SSB4. Yeah, they could have Marth as the only FE character, but they've never had a Smash Bros game have less characters representing a game universe than the previous Smash Bros game before it (except for Dr. Mario and Brawl, but that's more than understandable). They might make an exception for Sonic and Metal Gear Solid as well given that they aren't Nintendo and are only guest characters.

I wouldn't put any money on Snake or Sonic returning, to be honest. They were guest fighters, much like Link/Heihachi/Spawn in Soul Calibur II. I'm not expecting them to return. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do, but I'm not expecting anything. As far as third party guests go, Niitsuma of Capcom mentioned the idea of a Nintendo and Capcom crossover to Iwata a few months ago. Could be saying we'll get a Capcom rep, but that'd be reading too deep between the lines.

Watch as it's Ryu/Ken instead of MegaMan

As far as "realistic" goes, I wouldn't be surprised if Marth was suddenly the only FE representative (I think it's very much possible that Magnus from KI: Uprising could replace Ike as a heavy swordsman, should they want one). Hell, I'd be even less surprised if FE was axed from the playable roster entirely. I could totally see someone like Takamaru (Nazo no Murasame Jo) replacing him, especially thanks to a recent playable appearance in Samurai Warriors 3. Outside of the "hardcore" Smash Bros. scene, Fire Emblem has lost its mainstream international appeal, and the mainstream audience is what fuels character choices in these games; we get the main character(s) first, then we get the ensemble darkhorse characters... as assists.

Now that I think about it, look at the roster before; it's all basically been built around current trends, nostalgia, and advertisements (intentional or no). Ike is a current trend example, ROB is a nostalgia example, Roy was an advertisement, and Pit is a mix of nostalgia and advertisement. Look at some recent Nintendo titles to come out in the past year/are coming out (Sin & Punishment: Star Successor, Kid Icarus Uprising, The Rolling Western), and THEN you'll have a realistic idea for newcomers/reskins. Crossover games are all about marketing. If it isn't composed of things most people will recognize, then they won't buy. Games like Fire Emblem are not things target audience gamers will recognize; they recognize Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and new/upcoming releases (Again, S&P, KI, et al).

I actually could see the Ryu thing happening (as a result of a Capcom head member's personal preference), but seeing how there's official polls that Nintendo holds for possible new characters, I doubt that Capcom would put Ryu over Megaman after seeing the results of those polls (especially seeing how Megaman was one of the most voted characters who didn't make it in Brawl).

And marketing and not-being-retro didn't stop the Earthbound series from being left out of Melee or Brawl. In fact, Earthbound is hardly as well known or prevalent as Fire Emblem (especially seeing how Earthbound only has 3 games and Fire Emblem has more than three times as many games). They were planning to add Lucas to Melee to replace Ness but didn't due to Mother 3 being delayed. Yet they still kept Ness in even though it didn't do anything for marketing the Mother series. Ness isn't even the original lead character of the Mother series (that was Ninten) like Marth is. Yet they kept him in both Melee and Brawl. Everyone thought that Ness would be removed for Lucas in Brawl before the game came out, but that turned out to be completely wrong. Having both of them in Brawl didn't help with marketing whatsoever, but both Ness and Lucas stayed. Seeing how Fire Emblem is much more popular and prevalent than Earthbound (even in Japan where Earthbound is highly praised) and Earthbound characters and representation was never removed from Melee and Brawl, it's safe to assume that Marth is staying. I can't say anything for certain about him being the only FE representative, but I'd literally be willing to bet my SF account that Marth is staying.

Also, Ness was added to Smash Bros. from personal preference from HAL staff while Japanese Polls themselves had Marth as the #1 requested character in Melee (and he's still very popular as a character in Melee and Brawl, and he even built up quite a fanbase in North America and Europe from being in Smash Bros. alone), so I really doubt Marth would be removed in SSB4.

International mainstream appeal. Ask your neighbor if he knows about Mario. Most likely, they'll say yes. Then ask them about Marth. Don't expect a yes.

If a person knows Marth, then they should know about Mario. However, if they know about Mario, that doesn't mean they know about Marth.

Even if many people don't know Marth from Fire Emblem, you'd be suprised how many people know and can identify Marth from Smash Bros. alone. If a character shows up in Smash Bros, they become really well known even if people didn't even know their game series existed, like Ness and Earthbound. Trust me, I know since I've dressed up as Marth twice for Halloween and around 40%-60% of people I talked to on Halloween knew who I was dressed up as (and most of the people that didn't know who Marth was didn't know because they weren't avid gamers). He's hardly as obscure of a character as you're making him out to be. Especially compared to other characters like Ness, Lucas, and Ice Climbers.

And uh, lighten up a bit huh? I know it's disappointing to see characters you wanted that didn't make it in (I wanted plenty of characters like King K. Rool and Urban Champion in, and they didn't make it in and even now for SSB4, I know in the back of my mind they likely won't make it in, despite being reasonable characters), but Smash Bros is a game after all, so have fun with it and don't let it get to you.

P.S. I don't mean any offense to Ice Climber or Earthbound fans. I like both of them (I actually played Ice Climber a lot as a kid, though I sucked at it then and still do now). I'm also a fan of Earthbound and its quirky humour (like all the moles proclaiming they're the 3rd best and how they break the 4th wall).

Edited August 1, 2011 by Randoman

[shadowofchaos]

You have to remember Nintendo of America has no say in the roster. As long as NoJ thinks that FE is alive, I'm sure they'll show up.

Be that as it may (i.e. as long as FE survives in Japan), it doesn't mean that relatively minor characters (i.e. non mains) have any chance whatsoever of showing up in SSB

I love how people still want Lyn playable.

Lack of importance to the plot aside, Elibe isn't even relevant to the series anymore.

I mean would anyone even want to play as Eliwood

So basically, your PEMN. Both for you and the Elibe fanboys. Nintendo of Japan has the final say in this.

But I digress. The only FE character that I expect is Marth. If there are STILL two slots for FE, then no I would NOT expect it to be Caeda or Hardin. The best shot they have is an Assist Trophy. Same with you Black Knight fans. Main charaters only. Final Destination.

Some of you sound like the Krystal fanboys that fangasm'd over her voice actor's leaking info that she voiced Krystal back when Brawl was still in development. Turns out it was just a stage feature, ha ha.

Don't expect anything. It's better to be pleasantly surprised over their choice of characters.

Sorry to shoot you down, but your "Realistic Roster" is basically the Brawl Roster, and a few characters that you happened to mention from your "own roster".

Edited August 2, 2011 by shadowofkitty

[Randoman]

Don't expect anything. It's better to be pleasantly surprised over their choice of characters.

I'm not really expecting or hoping for any specific new characters (which shows from my lack of new characters in the realistic roster). I just thought it would be fun to see how accurately I could guess which characters would be in SSB4 and what everyone else's guesses are, similar to what I did in this thread for Dissidia Duodecim (my name is Evastio on Eyes on Final Fantasy, and yes, I didn't finish the scores in that thread since that would be necro-posting). As for my personal roster, that's just that. I'm well aware that those characters aren't realistic and likely won't make it in, but that's why I have both the realistic and the personal roster. I already addressed the responses regarding Hardin and Sheeda so I'll just leave it as that (though I'm pretty sure that FE won't be losing any character slots, whether that happens with Ike staying or a new FE representative being added).

Sorry to shoot you down, but your "Realistic Roster" is basically the Brawl Roster, and a few characters that you happened to mention from your "own roster".

I don't see the problem with that. Melee's roster was 64's roster with a little over twice as many new characters. Brawl's roster was 4/5ths of Melee's roster with plenty of new characters. So I don't see what's wrong with my "realistic roster" being most of Brawl's roster with a few new characters. Also, as I said before, I don't really know who else would be likely additions to SSB4 based on who didn't make it in Brawl.

This is all just speculation. Nothing as drastic as "character x better make it in or else I'm going to die/not by the game/kill Sakurai/bomb Sora Ltd./etc."

[Rewjeo]

Hardin could actually be possible. FE3/12 Hardin, at least.

[Barbasol]

I just wanted to post this on here, it's a blend of my choices, and what I believe to be likely.

[Zanarkin]

I just wanted to post this on here, it's a blend of my choices, and what I believe to be likely.

Scratch Snake, Sonic, Andy, Starfy, tingle, Mewtwo, ridley.

Add Jigglypuff (she has been on 3 games, she will not go away), Lucas, Roy, Samurai Grotto/other F-zero representative, and add a space pirate

[NinjaMonkey]

I just wanted to post this on here, it's a blend of my choices, and what I believe to be likely.

I can't see a playable Black Knight as a possibility, I'm afraid (On the other hand, I can see him as a boss if they decide to do another SSE-style adventure mode).

Scratch Snake, Sonic, Andy, Starfy, tingle, Mewtwo, ridley.

And the Duck Hunt dog.

[Smiley Jim]

This is what I believe will be the SSB(IV) Roster:

45 Total, 33 Vets, 12 Newbs. Red and Luke were given the boot.

Veterans:

Mario

Luigi

Peach

Bowser

Yoshi

Donkey Kong

Diddy Kong

Link

Toon Link

Zelda+Sheik

Ganondorf

Samus+ZSS

Kirby

Meta Knight

King DeDeDe

Captain Falcon

Fox

Falco

Wolf

Ice Climbers

Olimar

Pit

Wario

Pikachu

Jigglypuff

Marth

Ike

Rob

Ness

Lucas

Mr. G&W

Snake

Sonic

Newbies:

Mega Man(Mega Man)

Cloud Strife(Final Fantasy)

Isaac(Golden Sun)

King K. Rool(DK Country)

Toad(Super Mario Bros.)

Zoroark(Pokemon B/W)

Hilbert(Servine+Emboar+Oshawott)(Pokemon B/W)

Krystal(Star Fox)

Bomber Man(Bomber Man)

Zant(Legend of Zelda)

Hector(Fire Emblem)

Dr. Eggman(Sonic)

[shadowofchaos]

Newbies:

Cloud Strife(Final Fantasy)

Ha... HA....

HA HA HA HA HA.... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Fanboys and their Smash Bros. Rosters.

Let me ask you this... realistically, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES of that?

I mean seriously... Hardin, Caeda, AND the Black Knight all making it into the roster has a better chance of happening.

[Agility]

Old players

you already know them.

Players i want to see

Greil

Roy (Bring him back)

Black Knight (as a boss)

Cloud Strife

Shadow the hedgehog (as a player not assist)

Knuckles

Megaman

Protoman

Raichu

Edited August 8, 2011 by agility

[rigadoog]

Old players

you already know them.

Players i want to see

Greil

Roy (Bring him back)

Black Knight (as a boss)

Cloud Strife

Shadow the hedgehog (as a player not assist)

Knuckles

Megaman

Protoman

Raichu

They will not add Greil or Raichu, that's a guarantee. I think BK as a boss is somewhat possible, but it would be weird if they made him super-sized like all the bosses of Brawl were. I doubt they will bring Roy back unless IS decides to remake FE6, Cloud will not make it in, Shadow would be a clone of Sonic (since he literally is a clone of Sonic) and I think Knuckles would just be stupid. I see Megaman as possible, and I don't know who Protoman is.

[Ercdouken]

All these rosters suck. My roster is better than any roster ever.

[shroudening]

All these rosters suck. My roster is better than any roster ever.

I love this.

Unrealistic, yet, not as bad as others...

Roy (Revived)

Mewtwo (Revived)

Isaac/Matthew

Lloyd Irving

Anthony Higgs REMEMBUH ME?

Professor Layton lol

Marx (Kirby Super Star)

New Fire Emblem Lord

Vanguard Ike with Ragnell and Urvan

[whase]

I just wanted to post this on here, it's a blend of my choices, and what I believe to be likely.

very cool,

though switch the black knight for the new lord (Krom/Chrome) or Roy (somehow, making Ike's sword use fire was a hint to actually wanting Roy back)

switch duck hunter for jigglypuff

and I don't know who king k rool, tingle, victini, starfy, isaac, ray and little mac are, though all except tingle look good enough to me.