Max Power Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) Hey guys! Although I just joined the community, I've been reading actively this forum for about 2 years. Like all of you, I'm a hardcore Fire Emblem fan and I've simply been overthrilled when I first saw the first pics of the translation patch of New Mystery! Keep up the good works guys, and no matter the translation choices you'll make, I'm 100% behind you guys! Anyway, I've recently discovered that on Wikipedia, when you type "Marth" in the search box, Wikipedia automatically redirects you to a one line stub article about a 350 people german town... forcing you to go through the disambiguation page to reach the well detailed and complete article about Marth from FE. Considering the one line stub article about the tiny town doesn't bring much to the Wikipedia community, I've proposed to move the Marth FE article as the primary Marth topic in the stead of the german town. At first, I thought it would be a no brainer and that the move would be approved very quickly, but after a few approvals, I've met a couple of opponents who argue that a "very little known character" such as Marth (quoted from the Marth discussion) is less interesting than the "primary topic" that is the relatively unknown german town. I think it would be nice to replace our Marth to his proper place. If some of you are also Wikipedia users, I think it'd be nice if you went to the Marth (the town) discussion page and approve the proposal I made. To do this, you simply have to log on your wikipedia account (or create one, it takes 30 seconds), type Marth in the search box (you'll be brought to the german town page), and click on "Discussion". You'll then have access to the proposals and vote for or against. Anyway, I'm really looking forward the FE 12 translation! Keep up the good work guys! :) Edit: Minor typos, sorry if there is still some mistakes, I'm from Québec and rarely get to speak/write in english. Edited August 8, 2011 by Max Power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilmik11 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 You're from Quebec? Me too! Well, I hope you enjoy your stay on this site :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I looked at the discussion, and i completely side against you. Firstly, is it really a big deal that marth has to go to a disambiguation page? I think 350 people are more important than marth. & The pop culture argument also made sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) Thanks Lilmik! I'm certain that I'll enjoy myself here! I'll take the time to introduce myself in the proper forum in the near future. Fenrir, I agree to disagree with you, but is a one line stub article about a 350 unknown town really more interesting than our Marth who's starred as the main character in 4 games and in 2 blockbuster games (Smash Bros.)? The town's article provides no interesting information and has only been updated 2 or 3 times in 3 years. The truth is Marth's cultural influence has been much more important than this town, or at the very least, the town's Wikipedia's article cannot support the opposite. And while I don't know if it is really important if a page is the main topic or not, the town's article is virtually of no interest in its actual state (and I doubt it will be in the near future). Edit: Minor typos once more... Edited August 8, 2011 by Max Power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 That "cultural influence" is a limited one, however, while the town can have a more universal significance--regardless of the attention given to it. The everyman would be more concerned with the town, and as such, is given priority. It's not about how much the content is relied upon--it's about the significance overall that means something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) I'm quite sure that in this situation, if one of the Marths had to virtually disappear while the other stays, the fictional character would not take priority over a real life village, no matter how small or insignificant it is. I agree with you that our fictional FE Marth is far more well known and popular than this little village of Marth; that's obvious. I'm finding it a bit difficult to put into words, but basically, real life village is more important than fictional Marth, and so takes priority. Also welcome to this forum. It's good to see some fresh, interesting members. Edited August 8, 2011 by V-Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 What would someone searching Wikipedia for 'Marth' likely be looking for? A village of 350 people, or a moderately famous video game character? I don't know how Wikipedia determines the first link for a page, but I'd think if likelihood of being searched is the criteria, FE Marth would win it by a landslide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) That "cultural influence" is a limited one, however, while the town can have a more universal significance--regardless of the attention given to it. The everyman would be more concerned with the town, and as such, is given priority. It's not about how much the content is relied upon--it's about the significance overall that means something. It's not like a non-lazy person can't click to the disambiguation page to find out about the video game character. In fact they really should have a "were you looking for the video game character" tag if they don't, since Marth is likely to be a common destination for wikipedia users. In my own best interest, Marth as the first result would be best. Most wikipedia users are likely to be looking for marth the video game character. But wikipedia is a NPOV encyclopedia. How is it to weigh what matters more between 350 people and a somewhat minor but still, among nerds, well known enough cultural icon? Mere "efficiency?" Is knowledge now an assembly line? Edited August 8, 2011 by Loki Laufeyjarson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Well, imo, the real debate is not "what is more important, the town or the character?" but rather "what article brings the most to Wikipedia, is more interesting and will be more sought by people". In this case, I think the answer is clear. If the town really brought something of interest to the Wikipedian community, it would have been updater more than 2 or 3 times in 3 years and it would be longer than one line. Regardless of this matter, thanks for the welcome guys. I've been reading your forum a lot, so I figure it was time I started participating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I'd have to say, I think the character should be first, being more well known and more likely to be searched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigadoog Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Why do you think SF users are your personal wikipedia army? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 He thought he would go to the center of the online Fire Emblem community given that this issue is about Marth, a Fire Emblem character? It would be weird if he started asking about things that had nothing to do with FE, but this one makes sense. I agree that FE Marth, on Wikipedia, is more important than real life Marth. If only because it is the bigger, more detailed article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Well, imo, the real debate is not "what is more important, the town or the character?" but rather "what article brings the most to Wikipedia, is more interesting and will be more sought by people". In this case, I think the answer is clear. If the town really brought something of interest to the Wikipedian community, it would have been updater more than 2 or 3 times in 3 years and it would be longer than one line. Regardless of this matter, thanks for the welcome guys. I've been reading your forum a lot, so I figure it was time I started participating! Who cares about the Wikipedian community. WIKIPEDIA IS NPOV, therefore the wikipedia community's interest in the subject is irrelevant to discussing which should be prioritized. The goal is not to create interest for those using wikipedia or support wikipedia's community, but to create a knowledge base for outsiders as well. I mean really, who do you think you are fooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Who cares about the Wikipedian community. WIKIPEDIA IS NPOV, therefore the wikipedia community's interest in the subject is irrelevant to discussing which should be prioritized. The goal is not to create interest for those using wikipedia or support wikipedia's community, but to create a knowledge base for outsiders as well. Right, and chances are far great that outsiders will be interested in Marth the computer game character than Marth the village. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Huh, I'm not using anyone as my "Wikipedian army" and I'm not trying to fool anyone. I'm just an hardcore FE fan sad to see that Marth is set behind some unknown town and thought the matter would interest some of you. That's all. There is nothing left to analyze besides that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I have to agree with TC. Wikipedia goes by what the user was most likely searching for as its main result, or at least it should. Now if people were really that interested in searching this town then wouldn't it be much more in depth? 350 people is infinitely more important than a fictitious character, but I have a hard time believing it is of more interest to people in Englsh speaking countries, at least, than a miniscule town in Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I have to agree with TC. Wikipedia goes by what the user was most likely searching for as its main result, or at least it should. Now if people were really that interested in searching this town then wouldn't it be much more in depth? 350 people is infinitely more important than a fictitious character, but I have a hard time believing it is of more interest to people in Englsh speaking countries, at least, than a miniscule town in Germany. Even more relevant, it's not as if the article about the town has any meaningful information about the people in the first place, or that would benefit any of those people. At the very least, the disambiguation page should be the redirect, although it's not as though anyone going to the redirect page would likely do so without the intent of immediately going to the Marth character page. There's just no point in not immediately sending people where they want to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salem Frost Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 All of the other articles on the disambiguation page have more information than the town's page. It seems like ANY other Marth article should take priority over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 And yet, it SEEMS like wikipedia, as a community, needs to take a point of view in order to actually put Marth the video game character first, despite having NPOV as one of their most major stated objectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 And yet, it SEEMS like wikipedia, as a community, needs to take a point of view in order to actually put Marth the video game character first, despite having NPOV as one of their most major stated objectives. What point of view? The point of view that directing people to the page they want to get to matters? That's the most neutral possible point of view they could use to decide which should be the main page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knife Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I think Marth should be used simply based on search likelyhood. That's how it works on the wiki I frequent at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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