General Banzai Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Actually, I don;t like Luck being a "mystery stat", its uses should be listed just like the other seven primary stats. Also, the "who has good Luck?" issue would be solved by doing something IS should've done from day one: DISPLAYING THE GROWTH RATES! Uh... No. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Uh... No. Please. Which bit do you have a problem with? Hiding stuff like that from the player is always bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) I do kind of agree that there should be some indication of what growths are. It's always annoying to start a game and see a unit you think might be good because of past experience with FE and then use him or her just to find out he or she is terrible. EDIT: off topic, but at least part of my post was on topic. Dammit, my badge, or whatever it's called, changed. Is there any way to change it back? Renning >>>> Sothe Edited November 28, 2011 by bottlegnomes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I can't think of a single scenario where that would happen =/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I can't think of a single scenario where that would happen =/ I was actually trying to think of an example to use from the series, but I couldn't. But who knows, it might. One is kinda Palla. Most peggies have ridiculous speed, but her's is pretty bad. Her base speed and other growths make up for it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 And not to mention that they're literally no rational reason to hide growths WHATSOEVER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) I was actually trying to think of an example to use from the series, but I couldn't. But who knows, it might. One is kinda Palla. Most peggies have ridiculous speed, but her's is pretty bad. Her base speed and other growths make up for it though. Marcus in FE6 has shit growths. You realize that he's not that great once you get to the Western Isles. So what do you do? You drop him like any sane person since people like Echidna/Bartre/Gonzo/Klein/Tate have joined. You have an entire army to choose from. Why should the growth rates ever be displayed? And not to mention that they're literally no rational reason to hide growths WHATSOEVER! There's literally no rational reason to show growths either. In fact, if we're going to show the growth rates, why don't we just show the RNG Generator too? Edited November 28, 2011 by Bblader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 There's literally no rational reason to show growths either. In fact, if we're going to show the growth rates, why don't we just show the RNG Generator too? There's plenty of reason to show them! Hiding them makes no sense, and it's not even remotely like showing the RNGs. You just know the chances then, it's more like displaying the hit and crit percentages or bases. Seriously, it's blatantly obvious that it's a horrible, horrible idea with no beneficial purpose to hide them, don't defend it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Marcus in FE6 has shit growths. You realize that he's not that great once you get to the Western Isles. So what do you do? You drop him like any sane person since people like Echidna/Bartre/Gonzo/Klein/Tate have joined. You have an entire army to choose from. Why should the growth rates ever be displayed? There's literally no rational reason to show growths either. In fact, if we're going to show the growth rates, why don't we just show the RNG Generator too? But he's actually useful for a while. If someone like Kent had shit growths you could end up investing a fair bit of time into him before you found out he was useless in the long run. So you would have gained almost nothing and lost experience that could have gone to a better unit. Granted, this is from a more casual perspective. Plus, and this is more the reason I want it, it would save people hacking the game to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) There's plenty of reason to show them! Hiding them makes no sense, and it's not even remotely like showing the RNGs. You just know the chances then, it's more like displaying the hit and crit percentages or bases. Seriously, it's blatantly obvious that it's a horrible, horrible idea with no beneficial purpose to hide them, don't defend it! Crash, do you ever wonder why people flame you? Because I've never had a problem with you before but you're being silly. There's no reason to show the growths. It's the same reason why you're only given the chance that the attack will hit rather than a "Yes it will hit" answer. It's up to the player to decide if they want to use that unit (or attack) in the first place. You're trying and failing to defend a weak point, Crash. You're saying that we might as well just show the entire inner mechanics of the game. But he's actually useful for a while. If someone like Kent had shit growths you could end up investing a fair bit of time into him before you found out he was useless in the long run. So you would have gained almost nothing and lost experience that could have gone to a better unit. Granted, this is from a more casual perspective. No, a more casual perspective would be "I want to use Kent because I like his hair". You're looking from a numbers perspective and you're not considering the average player. The average player probably NEVER checks to see growth rates or anything of the sort because they don't care. Edited November 28, 2011 by Bblader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 There's no reason to show the growths. It's the same reason why you're only given the chance that the attack will hit rather than a "Yes it will hit" answer. It's up to the player to decide if they want to use that unit (or attack) in the first place. I'm not asking for a "yes they will grow the stat" answer, that's stupid and never what I asked for at any point. Showing the growth rates would NOT accomplish that on their own. And besides, there's still no reason to NOT show them either! Plus Vincent said that hiding them was a dumb idea on the main site anyway, you want to argue with him too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) I'm not asking for a "yes they will grow the stat" answer, that's stupid and never what I asked for at any point. Showing the growth rates would NOT accomplish that on their own. And besides, there's still no reason to NOT show them either! Plus Vincent said that hiding them was a dumb idea on the main site anyway, you want to argue with him too? Yes, I will argue with him. I'll argue with anyone who says that showing the growths is a good idea because they don't mean anything. If a growth unit sucks before the growths kick in, I'm not going to spend my time training them unless I WANT to. And I don't need to see growths to decide if I want to train that unit or not because I know that I'm still going to be lugging around their useless ass for a while (see Sophia on this one). Showing the growth rates is pointless. EDIT: This is at the bolded part. <@Life> Crash's argument: "Well, Vincent says this, are you going to argue against HIM?!" (assuming that I'll fold to that)<@Life> OH GOD, VINCENT SAYS THIS! THE WORLD'S GOING TO END IF I DON'T AGREE! Edited November 28, 2011 by Bblader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 No, a more casual perspective would be "I want to use Kent because I like his hair". You're looking from a numbers perspective and you're not considering the average player. The average player probably NEVER checks to see growth rates or anything of the sort because they don't care. This is just semantics, but I said more casual, not casual. Personally, I like to use characters who are actually good, besides the occasional exception where I just really like the character, but I don't particularly care for aiming for even remotely decent turn counts. It wasn't particularly clear what I meant, and really it's not important, so I won't go into it. I don't really care either way, but having the option would save people like Vince trouble in that they wouldn't have to find the growths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I don't really care either way, but having the option would save people like Vince trouble in that they wouldn't have to find the growths. He'd still have to look for the battle mechanics in the first place which means that he still has to hack the game wide open. Suffice to say that finding the growths at this point in time is trivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) He'd still have to look for the battle mechanics in the first place which means that he still has to hack the game wide open. Suffice to say that finding the growths at this point in time is trivial. Fair enough, then. Don't know much about hacking. EDIT: I feel like this is going to cause a shit storm, but whatever. Your comparison of showing growths to showing RNs isn't really true. The one shows the likelihood of something happening while the other shows whether something will happen or not. Showing the growths is more in line with showing hit rates. It could happen or it could not happen. It doesn't determine it, just gives you an idea of the event happening. I understand what you're saying, though, and I do kinda agree. I just felt like being a dick and pointing that out. Edited November 28, 2011 by bottlegnomes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Yes, I will argue with him. I'll argue with anyone who says that showing the growths is a good idea because they don't mean anything. If a growth unit sucks before the growths kick in, I'm not going to spend my time training them unless I WANT to. And I don't need to see growths to decide if I want to train that unit or not because I know that I'm still going to be lugging around their useless ass for a while (see Sophia on this one). Showing the growth rates is pointless. No it's not, maybe you don't think it's worth it, but other people might do (I sure as hell would fucking like to see those damn growth rates and decide for myself), and you say it's pointless but hiding is even more pointless. Tell me, what does hiding them actually accomplish, hm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Tell me, what does hiding them actually accomplish, hm? What does showing them accomplish? Are you going to give me a cock and bull argument about how a shitty growth unit now should be used because you can see their growths? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Because it's cool to get a rough idea of how people turn out, now answer my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Because it's cool to get a rough idea of how people turn out, now answer my question. They're still at the mercy of the RNG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Because it's cool to get a rough idea of how people turn out, now answer my question. I did. You're just too stupid to realize that it's possible to answer questions with other questions. And your reasoning is silly. That's just useless clutter on my screen. It's like wanting to see the numbers for how fast supports are. I don't NEED to see them so it's taking up room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 If every FE sans Lunatic/Reverse can be 0 growth'd on LTC anyway, why do you care so much? And Lunatic/Reverse really only have a small handful of people you can use to start with. Just play with characters you like. If you want the growths, go hack them yourself or wait for someone to do it. It's not like FE is unhackable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) Displaying growths in the game goes against the core idea of Fire Emblem that you're supposed to use who you think is good, or who you like. I mean, in a completely blind playthrough, if you pick Marcus in FE6, either you think "damn, this guy's a baller" or "damn, I like this guy." Then 13 chapters later when you realize that his stats aren't so hot, you either drop him, or you keep using him because he's fuckin' Marcus. Edited November 28, 2011 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Or in the case of FE5, load all scrolls on to characters you like. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 They're still at the mercy of the RNG. That changes nothing at all, there's nothing wrong with wanting to see these chances! Also, it IS necessary, it tells you how your character is likely to turn out. Displaying the growths would tell you this without any cost besides having another screen. A screen with USEFUL INFORMATION! People hack to find growths for a reason, these are all valid reasons and we shouldn't have to hack to find them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Then you can go make your own game where it shows the chances. Showing growths are not a necessary component of beating the game. IS doesn't need to waste its time making another screen that you can just hack to find out anyway instead of implementing things that'd actually make more fun mechanics. It's a game, for god sakes. Beyond people who enjoy debating about it, why do you need to see all these extra numbers? Unless a character has growths in multiples of 100 there are always chances they'll end up ridiculously blessed or screwed. Like my Echidna. 28 skill with 25% growth with a ??/20 average of 23.5. Things like this happen all the time. Oh come on, if you think not showing growths somehow make the game less enjoyable, go play something else. Or better yet, go do my math homework as I play FE. Also your shouting is irritating. Calm it down a notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.