Vorena Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I sort of see this trend of flyers exist in some country that is in pretty bad condition. FE9/10 - Wyvern riders in the cold reaches of Daein FE6/7 - Wyvern riders in the mountains while the Pegasus units take up mercenary work from the cold reaches of Ilia FE 4/5 - Wyvern riders in a land apparently too arid/mountainous to support themselves in Thracia while you see Pegasus knights in Silesia (which is again really cold) I want to say that FE1/3/11/13 take up some similar role, but I am drawing a complete blank on it at the moment. FE8 does not really fit either scenario, so I suppose it could be considered an outlier. Never played FE2 yet, so no comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 They're the only military units besides goat cavalry that could function in their homes reliably? Just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) In Akaneia, flyers are found in Macedonia (Peg/Dragon Knights), which is a mountainous country with healthy amounts of forests/rivers, or the frontier lands (Flying Dragons) where there's always a hazard potentially slowing you down, like sand or rivers. Otherwise, like Integrity said, they're the best units in their home terrains. Have to use what you can use best, right? Edited November 11, 2011 by Bender B. RodrÃguez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I like to think they're just assholes. "Living in a bunch of mountains? Pfft, I have a dragon to fly me around." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whase Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 the wyverns in Tellius come from Begnion, not Daein. Shiharam took his troops to Daein, but came from Begnion originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 They're the only military units besides goat cavalry that could function in their homes reliably? Just a guess. Yeah but why wouldn't everybody want air cavalry? It's less that it makes sense that these countries have them and more that it doesn't seem to make sense that other countries wouldn't. In Tellius at least it didn't seem to be a problem to care for pegasi in Crimea or wyverns in Daein so why not breed and train a force of your own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) But...but...think about the game balance! Edited November 11, 2011 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darros Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Yeah but why wouldn't everybody want air cavalry? It's less that it makes sense that these countries have them and more that it doesn't seem to make sense that other countries wouldn't. In Tellius at least it didn't seem to be a problem to care for pegasi in Crimea or wyverns in Daein so why not breed and train a force of your own? FE laws say you can't weild bows while flying, and they want bows so the flyers will die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Yeah but why wouldn't everybody want air cavalry? It's less that it makes sense that these countries have them and more that it doesn't seem to make sense that other countries wouldn't. In Tellius at least it didn't seem to be a problem to care for pegasi in Crimea or wyverns in Daein so why not breed and train a force of your own? Pegasi and Wyverns might have to be caught in the wild. It might not be possible or practical to train them in captivity. As a result, it would make sense that only certain countries would be able to train them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) The FE world in general does not make a whole lot of sense in some situations. One person defending an entire castle seems a bit ridiculous, but ignoring scaling issues... I thought this little observation got at the behaviors of the pegasi and dragon mounts. If you typically only find them in those mountainous and cold places, I would sort of expect them to adapt to it in some way. It can make sense for the pegasi which would have these hairs which keep the heat in and block out the cold. But, as far as I can tell they are vegetarian and mountainous and cold places do not offer a whole lot of green stuff to eat. Unless they are unexpectedly omnivores which would lap up any rabbit that comes their way. Dragon's sort of make sense with a diet you might expect to find, but I do not know too many reptilian animals (typically cold blooded, needing some source to give heat) that exist in cold weather. Then, again, the FE world does not make too much sense :) Edited November 12, 2011 by Coconut&Lime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Yeah but why wouldn't everybody want air cavalry? It's less that it makes sense that these countries have them and more that it doesn't seem to make sense that other countries wouldn't. In Tellius at least it didn't seem to be a problem to care for pegasi in Crimea or wyverns in Daein so why not breed and train a force of your own? Everybody DOES want air cavalry. Elibe, at least, had Ilians be great mercenaries because their services were in extreme demand. But if Pegasi are resistant to captivity, as somebody said, and they live in the mountainous regions, only the mountainous regions would be able to (reliably) train new air cavalry. As such, they'd have a monopoly on the business of air cav. Could be I'm reading too far into it, but that's my gut. Edited November 12, 2011 by Integrity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 They're the only military units besides goat cavalry that could function in their homes reliably? Just a guess. That's what I was thinking. Ilia and Thracia both seem to be pretty poor, and people like hiring them out as mercenaries. It always amazed me that Lenster never had an archer division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Pegasi and wyverns do fine in harsh terrain while other things don't, meaning those places are where they can compete best for resources. Makes sense for them to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 the wyverns in Tellius come from Begnion, not Daein. Shiharam took his troops to Daein, but came from Begnion originally. Not really, play Fe9 again and read tanith's dialogues, she tells about how a group of Wyvern riders, which she states Daein is famous for (SO LIVE UP TO IT IN FE10 WHEN I WANT MORE THAN TWO YELLOW RIDERS), conquers some begnion land. And yes, they were led by ashnard. Also, Bar Ilia, Those countries are pretty badass IMO. Just as wyverns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Not really, play Fe9 again and read tanith's dialogues, she tells about how a group of Wyvern riders, which she states Daein is famous for (SO LIVE UP TO IT IN FE10 WHEN I WANT MORE THAN TWO YELLOW RIDERS), conquers some begnion land. And yes, they were led by ashnard. Also, Bar Ilia, Those countries are pretty badass IMO. Just as wyverns. Does it? Her dialogue does mention Ashnard, yes, but never do they mention that wyverns were involved in that fight. On the battlefield. As you know, Daein is home to many brave warriors. At the time, then-prince Ashnard was said to have been a match for an entire troop of pegasus knights. Begnion and Daein both keep close watch over their borders, and their patrols fought in many skirmishes. Although there was no war to speak of, these land disputes did end with Daein claiming a small portion of Begnion soil. It would be no exaggeration to say this was soley due to the strength of one man: Ashnard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Does it? Her dialogue does mention Ashnard, yes, but never do they mention that wyverns were involved in that fight. Hmm, my bad, but I'm sure that she says something about wyvern riders... I'll check Hmmm. It does, True wyvern riders, but that's about Shiharam, yet I'm sure that soemwhere it is stated... I have only limited time... Gromell: A Begnion pegasus knight, eh? I'll prove that Daein's aerial prowess is more than equal to yours! Meh, not convincing, I know, but I am sure it was somewhere about Daein in Fe9/10... Oh well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Flyers seem to enjoy horrible terrain You would too if you were the only units who could fly over them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 That's what I was thinking. Ilia and Thracia both seem to be pretty poor, and people like hiring them out as mercenaries. It always amazed me that Lenster never had an archer division. There seems to be at least a few Arch Knights like Selphina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Flying units aren't as amazing as they sound. Both offer a lot of challenges. For example, all of them use mainly melee weapons (yes, lances can be thrown, but that would require a lot of lances), meaning that they have to swoop down close and get into melee range to land a blow on any ground forces in the first place. They can't wear true heavy armor (it would impede the mount and, even if it didn't, the rider would have difficulty with plate armor due to weight distribution). They're weaker than mounted units (since they have to divert energy to flight instead of leg-power). They probably eat much more (flight uses a lot of energy). Pegasus only accept female riders it seems and wyverns/dragons are mainly carnivores. They require a lot of additional training (you not only need to teach them to ride on the ground, but to ride and fight in the air). Seems to me that they're pretty cost-inefficient. For the amount of training and effort it takes to get one pegasus knight you could probably get 2-3 normal mounted knights who would be stronger in actual combat on their own anyways and you wouldn't have to seek out adventurous women/could feed them plants instead making them cheaper as well. The only advantage that flight offers is the ability to bypass terrain defenses and walls. While that is valuable, it is not something realistically affordable unless you have a sizable amount of resources to use to maintain them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) Flying units aren't as amazing as they sound. Both offer a lot of challenges. For example, all of them use mainly melee weapons (yes, lances can be thrown, but that would require a lot of lances), meaning that they have to swoop down close and get into melee range to land a blow on any ground forces in the first place. They can't wear true heavy armor (it would impede the mount and, even if it didn't, the rider would have difficulty with plate armor due to weight distribution). They're weaker than mounted units (since they have to divert energy to flight instead of leg-power). They probably eat much more (flight uses a lot of energy). Pegasus only accept female riders it seems and wyverns/dragons are mainly carnivores. They require a lot of additional training (you not only need to teach them to ride on the ground, but to ride and fight in the air). Seems to me that they're pretty cost-inefficient. For the amount of training and effort it takes to get one pegasus knight you could probably get 2-3 normal mounted knights who would be stronger in actual combat on their own anyways and you wouldn't have to seek out adventurous women/could feed them plants instead making them cheaper as well. The only advantage that flight offers is the ability to bypass terrain defenses and walls. While that is valuable, it is not something realistically affordable unless you have a sizable amount of resources to use to maintain them. There's nothing to say that Begnion, for example, wouldn't have those sizable amount of resources, but this could create suspension of disbelief problems for Thracia, Ilia, Silesia and other such smaller countries with winged platoons. Especially Thracia, whose poverty is hammered in pretty heavily. That being said, having creatures that large, with wingspans relatively small compared to the size of their bodies, which can fly is already pretty unrealistic. There's nothing that says, however, that a grounded pegasus wouldn't be almost as fast as a horse at galloping on non-stable ground, it would probably get a bit of wing drag though when galloping. Also, in terms of armor, one assumes that the dragons have fairly effective natural armor in the form of scales. But this post does remind me of a stalled RP I was in quite some time ago where I had the not so hard to thunk of idea of attacking another PC's pegasus when we were in an RP fight. And if we're actually getting into realism arguments, there's nothing that says that mages (lol mages, realism) wouldn't be able to ride on pegasi or wyverns. Edited November 13, 2011 by BlueMartianKitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Not all of the wyvern riders in FE9 were from Begnion. I have no way of judging the ones we see here, but I know another unit, one that was attached to Begnion's temple guard. They had their reasons for leaving... But the important thing to remember is that they are exceedingly powerful. Only Shiharam's platoon came from Begnion; the rest are Daein natives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Seems to me that they're pretty cost-inefficient. For the amount of training and effort it takes to get one pegasus knight you could probably get 2-3 normal mounted knights who would be stronger in actual combat on their own anyways and you wouldn't have to seek out adventurous women/could feed them plants instead making them cheaper as well. The only advantage that flight offers is the ability to bypass terrain defenses and walls. While that is valuable, it is not something realistically affordable unless you have a sizable amount of resources to use to maintain them. Obviously ground cavalry is more efficient, but any nation would want a small unit at the very least to do commando-type jobs or accomplish encirclements other units wouldn't dream of or... y'know, countering enemy flying troops. This could prove problematic if they're all Ilian mercenaries as I suspect mercenaries told to go kill each other for profit are going to tell the two sides engaged in the fight to go sit and spin, or at least to not try very hard to kill each other. Sure, you can also have archers and ballistae, but you can't really do much with them offensively. You'd think maintaining your monopoly on them as a country like Thracia or Ilia would be a huge priority, but I sort of wonder how they'd pull that off unless you simply can't domesticate the creatures in the standard fashion... something I don't recall ever coming up, at least not with wyverns (Tellius makes at least the implication that the pegasi have to be personally acclimated to their rider). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 They wouldn't be as fast/able to run as long as normal horses. Normal horses spend a lot of time running about which allows them to build up speed and stamina. Pegasi, meanwhile, can fly. Most of their muscle-build will be in their wings. While flying is probably better than walking, if forced to walk, the normal horse would be better. And yea, I know it's still useful even though a normal mounted unit would be better resource-wise. It's how things happen. Even if it's 'better' to buy a bunch of common troops, the extra flexability is well worthit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Maybe it's because their maps only have Bases but no Airports, thus preventing them from constructing flying units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Fail Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Yeah, Temporary Airports can only get you so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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