How Hard is it to Learn Japanese?

[luigi bros]

I need to pick a foreign language for my high school.

I'm strongly considering Japanese as my language.

I know nothing of Japanese, but I'm curious, and I'd love to be able to understand imported games. On top of that, one day I hope to be a programmer, and Japanese is most likely going to be of great value.

So as there are a lot of Japanese speakers here, how hard is it to learn for a native English speaker?

[Galenforcer]

Not much, as long as you pay attention and you try hard.

I picked up pretty quickly because of constant repetition through certain words and phrases.

[dondon151]

It's pretty damn hard if you want to learn it seriously. And if you're primary purpose for learning Japanese is to read manga, watch anime, play games etc. in their native language, you're much better off putting your effort elsewhere.

EDIT: Oh wait, high school. Do whatever you want; high school language classes are a joke.

[Celice]

It may not be as easy as other languages which stem from the same root as your language, but if you put the effort into it, that's all that's really asked.

You should strongly consider whether learning Japanese will be worthwhile though. If you are sure that it will be helpful in your future plans, then by all means, go for it. Actually, even if you aren't--you can dick around in high-school without much reprimands. Should you change your mind, your undergrad years are available, as well as your own learning in your own free time.

[Blademaster!]

Japanese is the hardest language for native English speakers to learn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Difficulty_of_learning_languages

Of the 63 languages analyzed, the five most difficult languages to reach proficiency in speaking and reading, requiring 88 weeks (2200 class hours), are Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, and Korean. The Foreign Service Institute notes that Japanese is typically more difficult to learn than other languages in this group.[5]

[Bryan]

Japanese sucks because of how many different styles of writing y

ou have to learn.

[Esau of Isaac]

The grammar structure of Japanese is not difficult to learn, and in fact is simple to gain a grasp of over a period of time. What is more difficult is gaining aptitude in the writing system, specifically kanji. The fact that there are 2-3,000 needed to be capable of reading at an adult level will hold your studies back immensely when you're trying to concentrate on learning other portions of the language.

That said, as with learning any language, what you need most is interest and a strong drive. If you want to learn it badly enough you'll learn, regardless of how difficult it may seem.

Japanese sucks because of how many different styles of writing y

ou have to learn.

Do you mean styles as in styles of actually writing characters, as in cursive, short-hand etc? Or do you mean having to learn hiragana, katakana, and kanji? If the latter, that's not much of a complaint. Students can easily learn the first two within the first couple months with daily practice.

[dondon151]

The grammar structure of Japanese is not difficult to learn, and in fact is simple to gain a grasp of over a period of time. What is more difficult is gaining aptitude in the writing system, specifically kanji. The fact that there are 2-3,000 needed to be capable of reading at an adult level will hold your studies back immensely when you're trying to concentrate on learning other portions of the language.

While Japanese grammar is easy enough, actually learning the numerous expressions that exist within those grammar structures and learning to naturally apply them is also difficult.

I can imagine that kanji is difficult for non-Chinese speakers, but the requirement for kanji study in Japanese is far less rigorous than that for memorizing characters in Chinese. I feel like that kanji recognition is truly a secondary component in Japanese whereas it's absolutely essential in Chinese.

[Esau of Isaac]

While Japanese grammar is easy enough, actually learning the numerous expressions that exist within those grammar structures and learning to naturally apply them is also difficult.

I can imagine that kanji is difficult for non-Chinese speakers, but the requirement for kanji study in Japanese is far less rigorous than that for memorizing characters in Chinese. I feel like that kanji recognition is truly a secondary component in Japanese whereas it's absolutely essential in Chinese.

That's true. I heard a figure once that Chinese are expected to know 10,000, and some nightmares about several possible interpretations of similar sounds. Though I guess that sounds somewhat similar to Japanese in that regard, with the huge number of homonyms.

I suppose the grammar has some difficulty and learning applications in some areas. I'll admit that actually looking for sources to learn some of what I hear is difficulty, since it seems areas made for learning languages these days seem built around the people that pick the language up for a month like a fad and then drop it without learning anything. So everything's...I don't know how to say it...casualized?

[dondon151]

Well, from my experiences of taking Japanese at university, we hardly spend any class time learning kanji. We're expected to learn how to write maybe 10 characters every week, learn how to read maybe 60 new compounds every 2 weeks, and get tested on them, but 95% of class time is spent discussing grammar notes, doing conversational practice, and analyzing reading material.

And really, writing is the hard part of kanji - reading, not so much. You'll see a certain character often enough to recall it from memory without having to devote extra effort to memorizing it.

[Vorena]

I guess the another question is how does one learn without having a class to take. Learning a language on your own seems to be a nightmare.

[dondon151]

I don't personally think that learning a language on your own is a good idea unless you already have a good background in that language.

[Esau of Isaac]

Well, from my experiences of taking Japanese at university, we hardly spend any class time learning kanji. We're expected to learn how to write maybe 10 characters every week, learn how to read maybe 60 new compounds every 2 weeks, and get tested on them, but 95% of class time is spent discussing grammar notes, doing conversational practice, and analyzing reading material.

And really, writing is the hard part of kanji - reading, not so much. You'll see a certain character often enough to recall it from memory without having to devote extra effort to memorizing it.

The same was true of my courses (about 15 instead of 10 though), however that is because of the nature of memorizing kanji. It requires rote memorization. It makes sense to do conversational practice and grammar, because that is the major part of Japanese of course.

I actually found the writing to be quite simple. Once you've written a few, you've really written them all. I never understood why so many people had trouble with stroke count and general composition. For me, remembering possible pronunciations of each individual kanji is a nightmare, especially when places that I find will include a note for one specific way to say it but no example that includes it, thus making me inevitably forget it in short order. Example, 雨 can be pronounced "ame" (occasionally "same") or "Uu", but it's also noted as "ama", though I have never in any reference materials that state this been given a term that actually uses "ama." At this point I've only remembered that form of pronunciation because it's just so weird for them to give it without anything to go on.

Edit: I decided to google 雨 and found its entry here. Found some like 雨傘. I suppose I should start writing my flashcards from here.

Oh, that reminds me, for individuals learning the language, check out Anki. It's a memorization programs with essentially digital flashcards that is based on repetition over time to learn terms. If you get a good deck of words, it can be a real help.

[Celice]

I guess the another question is how does one learn without having a class to take. Learning a language on your own seems to be a nightmare.

Learning to read another language can be very simple. Learning to express yourself through that language is a bit more of a challenge, because you may not have the necessary feedback to show when you're doing something wrong.

In all of my language courses, you self-teach from your studies, and come to class to polish what you learned and have questions answered. The classes don't teach you--your studies do. All the class does is function to proctor your pacing and to clarify.

Just don't go thinking you can download Rosetta Stone and be good.

[Thor Odinson]

Also, if you want to retain a language in general, you'll have to practice lots and make sure it's still fresh. I'm a native-born Chinese, and after nearly 10 years in America, I can only write a very small percentage of the Chinese characters I used to know. Though I was still able to read Chinese fluently due to how often I read things in Chinese, many people I know that are similar to me in "born in China but came to America at a fairly young age but one that should have an okay grasp of the language" who don't read Chinese as much as I do have forgotten how to read it as well.

Now, if you just want to pass a high school course, that's different, but if you want to continue to pursue it later on, it's something to think about.

[shadowofchaos]

Now, if you just want to pass a high school course, that's different, but if you want to continue to pursue it later on, it's something to think about.

^That

If you have a second language already, you'll have a HUGE advantage over those who don't. However, that pretty much fades away if you just get into it and start learning.

Passing high school courses for a language will help you, but you need to immerse yourself in other media than just games, anime, manga, etc.

Pretty much what Celice said:

Just don't go thinking you can download Rosetta Stone and be good.

Not trying to scare you or anything, but there's a difference between seriously learning a language and passing a high school course. It's definitely a nice starting point though.

One last note, just like Celice said, there's a difference between technical knowledge, and practicality. Just like how I'm able to speak Tagalog fluently, and not able to read that efficiently AT ALL, AND how I'm able to translate random crap like subtitling my Vesperia LP, random little skits for people wondering what an image/short video is saying, and yet have to think about what I'm saying when someone is actually speaking Japanese to me. Those two languages are reversed for me in "translation speed" in my mind.

Also a funny thing about knowing more than one language... you won't realize that you'll be thinking in your head in pretty much any of the languages you know without realizing it. XD

[TheEnd]

It's pretty damn hard if you want to learn it seriously. And if you're primary purpose for learning Japanese is to read manga, watch anime, play games etc. in their native language, you're much better off putting your effort elsewhere.

But I learned Japanese for that.

Though in all fairness, most people who start studying with that as motivation give up really fast. And even in my case, it means I have no motive to go beyond an intermediary level - which makes it professionally useless.

[shadowofchaos]

But I learned Japanese for that.

Though in all fairness, most people who start studying with that as motivation give up really fast. And even in my case, it means I have no motive to go beyond an intermediary level - which makes it professionally useless.

Actually, I don't remember why I started learning Japanese ._.

I just know... I somehow kept going on intermediate level... despite having "no motivation".

All the other people that had anime and manga as their primary reason, pretty much left long ago.

[mmKALLL]

I've been practising several months now. I can fluently read/write hiragana/katakana and have several dozens of kanji memorized. (although I can't recall very many yet - it's harder to write one than just see it and remember what it means) My motivation is anime/manga, but I have long-term goals as well, to have survival capability and ability to strike some conversation if I were to throw all my other languages away. Currently I'm able to play and nearly-fully understand some of the more simple imported games/manga I have (FE is too difficult to even grasp yet, but, like, yeah), but expressing is obviously a million times harder.

To learn the language fluently in both directions without having to rely on Finnish/English as a base, that will take years of hard study and I'm not sure if I'm up to it. If possible, I will try, but I also think that I'll evolve past this weeaboo phase before that too lol.