SethxEirika

[StinDuh]

Found this on tumblr:

(Original Blog Post)

why I don’t like Seth/Eirika.

okay I said I’d do this. let’s go.

It’s by far the most popular FE8 pairing, and for a pretty clear reason: the game basically shoves it down your throat. Repeatedly. (Not that any of Eirika’s options lack attention, though - the game is just quite forward about Seth at the outset.)

As you’ve probably gathered by following my blog, I don’t like it. I used to! It used to be my favorite, actually. But then I looked at it some more, and well, not so much anymore. Why?

First off, Seth repeatedly kneecaps Eirika. Every time she takes a risk, every time she’s ready to make a decision, Seth steps in and blocks her. He’s outright disrespectful at times — leaving off her title, talking down to her, preventing her from fighting even when she’s clearly capable and ready for it.

Sure, you can say he’s “protecting” her. But he doesn’t show the same attitude toward Ephraim — Ephraim, who’s inexperienced in real combat and repeatedly shows cockiness and recklessness to a potentially destructive level. Cautious Eirika really doesn’t need a controlling babysitter to tell her what to do, but that’s exactly what she gets in Seth, rather than the professional support and advice he lends Ephraim.

I think it’s pretty telling that he’s constantly snarking at characters like Innes, and in the beta version, Saleh, too. It’s possessive more than protective, and frankly? More than a little creepy. But fandom constantly vilifies Innes to make Seth look shinier, when unlike Seth, he actually acknowledges that she’s more than a trophy princess.

Eirika herself is cowed by Seth, which is really unfortunate. She stands her ground with Ephraim, with Forde, with Innes, with even the intensely destructive Lyon. But get her and Seth together, and suddenly she’s a wishy washy ball of squish who needs a Big Strong Knight to protect her. Her entire character arc is her coming into her own and becoming ready to be queen, not priming to be a trophy wife for War Hero Seth — but that’s exactly what their supports read like, to me.

From what I’ve gathered, fandom finds these obnoxious tendencies “romantic”. They want poor helpless Princess Eirika, and her Knight In Shining Armor, Sir Seth. But I’ve no interest in Eirika as a damsel in distress, and Seth is hardly the perfect picture of chivalry. Eirika’s a kickass enough character that she deserves someone who’s going to respect her, rather than walk all over her decisions and position.

And that’s not something Seth, in-game, seems willing to avoid.

Discuss.

[chococoke]

You try having incredible bases and awesome growths out, and then tell me if you're not protective of your slam piece.

[Ϲharlie]

I don't have much to say to your post as a whole, but there is one issue I'd like to address.

Cautious Eirika really doesn’t need a controlling babysitter to tell her what to do, but that’s exactly what she gets in Seth, rather than the professional support and advice he lends Ephraim.

Eirika is anything but cautious. She blindly believes Orson and Lyon, even though they were both obviously deceiving her. The latter is a particularly careless mistake because not only did she run off on her own, she also handed the sacred stone over to Lyon without a second thought knowing he was possessed by the demon king. These are the acts of someone whose judgment is clouded by sentiment.

I'd say Eirika is a poorly written character on the whole. She is very naive and dependent. This would be acceptable, understandable even, but she never seems to grow out of it. I also vaguely remember one scene where Innes stepped in and stood up for Eirika, but I can't remember any specifics. A brief search through the script did not turn up much either.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Gustave

[Joerachi]

Sure, you can say he’s “protecting” her. But he doesn’t show the same attitude toward Ephraim — Ephraim, who’s inexperienced in real combat and repeatedly shows cockiness and recklessness to a potentially destructive level. Cautious Eirika really doesn’t need a controlling babysitter to tell her what to do, but that’s exactly what she gets in Seth, rather than the professional support and advice he lends Ephraim.

What? In Ephy shown that he can hold his own quite well, and only got caught once? Seth also tries to advise against Ephraim in reckless decisions. He treats Ephraim in the same light as Eirika, although to a lesser degree.

[Blitz]

I don't have much to say to your post as a whole, but there is one issue I'd like to address.

Eirika is anything but cautious. She blindly believes Orson and Lyon, even though they were both obviously deceiving her. The latter is a particularly careless mistake because not only did she run off on her own, she also handed the sacred stone over to Lyon without a second thought knowing he was possessed by the demon king. These are the acts of someone whose judgment is clouded by sentiment.

I'd say Eirika is a poorly written character on the whole. She is very naive and dependent. This would be acceptable, understandable even, but she never seems to grow out of it. I also vaguely remember one scene where Innes stepped in and stood up for Eirika, but I can't remember any specifics. A brief search through the script did not turn up much either.

Agreed

I also like to think Erika gave half(or more) of her brain to Ephraim

[Chalis]

It's not nice to focus the character faults on Seth. He might have a natural superiority complex or something which could make him a more interesting character than to what is actually given and shown. Eirika is not 'kickass' outside of player controlled actions involving battle, she lacks experience and is naive throughout the rest of the game with the one eventual development (the decision to mercy kill Lyon). I'll admit, ignoring Seth and letting Eirika run into bad end sounds fun and I would do it every time.

The reason why she acts differently with Seth when it comes to interaction is implied unresolved sexual tension, misattribution of arousal from escaping Renais. This is pretty interesting considering Seth often acts like a mentor or even a father trying to guide her to the correct decisions in becoming a queen. It's understandable she doesn't feel nervous around Ephraim or Forde, in Forde's case he's just easygoing. Lyon shouldn't even enter the picture of potential love interests in her mind as even Eirika found it a surprise when he revealed his love for her.

It would be awesome if Seth were overly possessive because upfront he's bland as cardboard. Some convos would be able to support this like Natasha's. Maybe Seth's wish is escapism; it seems if there's a small chance he can break from his precious duty/honor/knighthood, he'd take it. Or he's a masochist. Or maybe two people fell in love and someone needs to baw because knights in shinning armor aren't fresh anymore and something about shippers projecting themselves onto characters.

[Thor Odinson]

Without Seth Eirika'd be dead three times over. Just saying.

Chapter 8. Orson with the dagger under his doublet. No Seth there to guide her? Game over.

If I was in that army, I'd not trust Eirika making her own decisions either. She's not exactly bright, definitely inexperienced, and naive as fuck.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[CrashGordon94]

I'm not a huge fan of SethXEirika, but that's mainly because I like TanaXEirika for shallow and probably dumb reasons.

[Swordsalmon]

Eirika is anything but cautious. She blindly believes Orson and Lyon, even though they were both obviously deceiving her. The latter is a particularly careless mistake because not only did she run off on her own, she also handed the sacred stone over to Lyon without a second thought knowing he was possessed by the demon king. These are the acts of someone whose judgment is clouded by sentiment.

And Novala. She almost surrendered to him, and those civilians would've been eaten by spiders. :(

[Ansem]

FE on Tumblr

wut

[StinDuh]

FE on Tumblr

wut

Follow the right people, its all over the place.

[Rapier]

This is also true for for almost every single character in FE8

Unfortunately, it's a fact.

[zahlman]

I'm not a huge fan of SethXEirika, but that's mainly because I like TanaXEirika for shallow and probably dumb reasons.

... because yuri is pwnsome? :/

[CrashGordon94]

... because yuri is pwnsome? :/

Yup, not everyone seems to find that an okay reason.

[Thor Odinson]

I dunno, I personally don't care what you ship as long as you don't try to pass a noncanon pair as canon and then shove it up my face. I guess some people make a bigger deal than necessary on silly things like crack pairings.

After all, I ship OgmaxNavarre and it's full of crack.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Cautious Eirika really doesn't need a controlling babysitter to tell her what to do

But I've no interest in Eirika as a damsel in distress

Eirika's a kickass enough character

I think this guy's "analysis" is nothing but a silly rant where his perception of a character, possibly based on his personal in-game experience, clashes with what Eirika is like as set in stone through the story. Seth may or may not be overprotective, but this isn't the right approach for sure.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Sirius

[Anouleth]

Sounds pretty dumb to me. I think that Innes/Eirika is more prominent than Seth/Eirika. And Seth never struck me as being creepy or controlling.

[Bryan]

I'm still a fan of Eirika/Lyon. It always seemed right.

The only other pairing I ever consider is Innes/ Eirika.

Seth is like her father. Ewww.

[Thor Odinson]

WTF Seth is not that old >|

[Integrity]

I'm going to stop avoiding this thread like the plague to point out that Seth is, canonically, notably younger than his station suggests. It's even in his R-Info.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Integrity

[Parrhesia]

I seem to recall Seth being 27 and I have absolutely no idea how I think this.

[Raven]

I'd say Seth's around 25 years old. Seems reasonable for a Paladin with such bases, at least.

[sumerian99]

Seth might indeed seem rude at certain moments when it comes to protect Eirika and talk to her.

You criticize his obsession to defend her, BubbleTea. Yes, it is due to his love for her, partly. But most of all, it is due to his duty that he is overly protective.

Objectively speaking, Eirika doesn't nearly have as much combat experience as Ephraim, her constitution is relatively fragile and she is quite vulnerable to her own emotions. Ephraim keeps his emotions in check, has advanced combat experience comparatively to his sister lore wise and is well built to endure the physical turmoils of war. Remember it is him who taught Eirika how to use a sword. Ephraim learned the lance from General Duessel far before he taught Eirika anything in combat, implying he takes fighting far more at heart than his sister, who harbors violence. Cutscenes support the statements I just made about that.

I am not saying Eirika is weak, nor am I criticizing her for what she is. She is a brave, elegant and kind hearted woman who is willing to learn and to get stronger in order to be a better queen. I am simply saying that while she learns, Seth and Ephraim must make sure she survives to see the day Renais rises as the proeminent power over Grado and the rest of the countries. Plus, the responsibility is mutual. Ephraim cares for his sister, he wants to protect her. But Eirika also cares for him and wants to protect him. She rode to Grado in order to help him, which could be deemed as reckless as what Ephraim did, yet it was admirably noble and brave from her part.

Seth is here to guide her and to make sure she doesn't make fatal mistakes along the road, with Ephraim's assistance. Ephraim isn't perfect either by the way, yes he is cocky to a certain extent, but not that much. The tactical warfare he waged in Grado before his sister arrived was quite brilliant, given his numbers and limited means. Preferably, I would have retreated to Frelia. So yes, Ephraim was taking a fairly huge risk by charging into Grado like that, but he wasn't helpless or devoid of experience. Seth is here to advise him to avoid being overly reckless. Yet, the ultimate decisions are taken by the Twins, no matter what he advises. He is no regent lord, he is a Knight, period. A vassal. A vassal does not dictate authority to their lord(s) : he or she advises, protects and serves.

Coming back to Seth's overprotectiveness.

When you are named by your king as General of Renais's Royal Knights, when you are given the secret of the Twin Bracelets, when you are ENTRUSTED by your king to protect his daughter and son, you do NOT mess around with SECURITY.

You have ONE chance, PERIOD. You make ONE mistake, she DIES. She dies means you FAILED at upholding the responsibility you took in the name of your king, country and nation. This is not a matter of ego or ''oh my god she's a responsible woman who can take care of herself'', it's a matter of, you ARENT SUPPOSED TO MAKE MISTAKES and no she is not invincible, despite how kickass you might think she is.

Seth is doing fine. He gives her a lot flexibility in decision making. I mean, isn't it her who wanted to rescue her brother Ephraim by charging into Grado? When you think about it, Eirika has the political authority over her vassals, who obey her truly and with almost no question (questioning arising only when it comes to her security), so I would hardly call her a damsel in distress. I would rather call her a queen in the making, with her flaws and her strong points.

Edited January 25, 2012 by sumerian99