Tales of Symphonia?

[Racer]

Firs off, please don't hate me if this thread was done 8739728752 times before. So I'm looking for a new game 'cause I am getting tired of replaying Fire Emblem over and over again and I sometimes see Tales of Symphonia floating around the internet when I type in Fire Emblem. I made a quick stop to Gamestop (lol) and I saw the game over there. is it worth it or not?

[Peppy]

I liked the game when i got it. I say that you should get it and try it out!

[eclipse]

Yes, it is, even if I don't like Lloyd.

[Scarlet]

Tales of Symphonia is one of the few ARPGs for the CG, and it's without a doubt the best, too. The story is interesting, the characters are likable, the gameplay is awesome and you'll get a lot of playtime out of it. If you like the game at all, it'll almost definitely be worth it.

[Cain Magnus]

Being a HUGE Tales Series fan, I'd definitely recommend getting Symphonia if you can get your hands on it. The game is nice and long and the battle system is truly unique. The game also has amazing replay value (So do the others). So yeah, I think you'll really enjoy it. I would say more on it, but it'll end up being a large wall o' text in this post. XD

I'd also recommend Tales of the Abyss for the PS2 to you, which that one is my favorite. Just in case if you get the game and beat it and desire more from the series.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Magnus Blade

[shadowofchaos]

I too, think you should pick it up.

The only complaint I have is the same thing Tales of the Abyss suffers from, no voiced skits D:

[Lord Raven]

Eh, Tales games tend to be poor when it comes to writing, but I love symphonia simply because I beat it like 10 or 15 times in middle school. It's a good story, but don't expect a very good presentation...

I think the parallels to FFX make the story a lot better though.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Mercenary Raven

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Tales of Symphonia is just a fun game, imo. Not without flaws, but you have a very easy mode, a normal mode, and a very hard mode; as for the story, it's like FFX's without the suck and over-the-top allegory.

The best part of Tales of Symphonia is like the special Lloyd soulmate cutscene towards the end of the game. It determines who dies at the end of the game, how Lloyd is saved from a trap (very minor spoiler), and they're some of the best cutscenes I've ever seen. Zelos' cutscene is just a combination of shock value and pure sadness, Sheena's is cute, Colette's is annoying, Genus' is enlightening, and so on...

It's just one of those games you should pick up ASAP and be glad you found.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[TheEnd]

I really should find a way of playing ToS sometime. Dolphin doesn't emulate the bgms, so that'd be no good. Maybe the PS2 version...

I too, think you should pick it up.

The only complaint I have is the same thing Tales of the Abyss suffers from, no voiced skits D:

That's funny when you remember that even the PSX Tales of Phantasia had them.

[Lord Raven]

Tales of Symphonia is just a fun game, imo. Not without flaws, but you have a very easy mode, a normal mode, and a very hard mode; as for the story, it's like FFX's without the suck and over-the-top allegory.

To each their own, but FFX was way better than Tales of Symphonia in the plot department. Tales games suffer from this thing of "trying to hard to be in your face about the fact that they fuck standard cliches in the ass," whereas Final Fantasy is a lot more subtle and emotional about it. And FFX vs Tales of Symphonia is pretty much indicative of the difference.

The first thirds of Tales and the first half or two-thirds of FFX were very similar in structure, except the romance was touched upon in much better detail (and pretty much became a major contributor to the plot- I'm 99% sure that the events in the game were planned by the Fayth and Auron, in fact) and FFX felt more realistic (in emotion) and sorrowful as a result. Tales of Symphonia is just filled with "Racism is wrong" and "everyone should have free will" constantly being jammed down your throat after this nonsense about "WORLD REGENERATION!!!!!" And the way FFX builds up and as a whole tells its story is far superior to Tales of Symphonia.

The battle system's fun though. Gotta give it that.

[Momo]

To each their own, but FFX was way better than Tales of Symphonia in the plot department. Tales games suffer from this thing of "trying to hard to be in your face about the fact that they fuck standard cliches in the ass," whereas Final Fantasy is a lot more subtle and emotional about it. And FFX vs Tales of Symphonia is pretty much indicative of the difference.

Yeah, Namco fucking loves cliches. In fact, Symphonia is probably the most cliche game I have ever played, no joke. It was a fucking travesty in the story department and is a terrible game...

Or I would say that if the battle system wasn't fantastic and some of the best fun I've had in a game. It really pisses me off that such lazy writing accompanied such a damn fun game to play.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

To each their own, but FFX was way better than Tales of Symphonia in the plot department. Tales games suffer from this thing of "trying to hard to be in your face about the fact that they fuck standard cliches in the ass," whereas Final Fantasy is a lot more subtle and emotional about it. And FFX vs Tales of Symphonia is pretty much indicative of the difference.

The first thirds of Tales and the first half or two-thirds of FFX were very similar in structure, except the romance was touched upon in much better detail (and pretty much became a major contributor to the plot- I'm 99% sure that the events in the game were planned by the Fayth and Auron, in fact) and FFX felt more realistic (in emotion) and sorrowful as a result. Tales of Symphonia is just filled with "Racism is wrong" and "everyone should have free will" constantly being jammed down your throat after this nonsense about "WORLD REGENERATION!!!!!" And the way FFX builds up and as a whole tells its story is far superior to Tales of Symphonia.

The battle system's fun though. Gotta give it that.

I'm not saying that ToS had a great plot (although I think the characterization was decent enough), it's just that FFX is SO bad in the plot department that ToS manages to win. At least with ToS, I couldn't predict everything that was going to happen.

- Oh hey, awkward silence when Tidus mentions returning. Yuna's obviously a human sacrifice.

- Oh hey, Seymour! Obviously the villain here with the whole weirdness and creepy face. He's helping? Bullshit, he's probably going to backstab them. What's this? They all died? Derp.

- Oh hey, cutscene with Fayth with big Tidus reveal? This obviously means Tidus is going to sacrifice himself for Yuna since he obviously loves her, which means she's not going to die. But we kind of figured that.

Etc.

It's like FFX took the bible and made some weird sci-fi/fantasy hybrid of it, and the plot SUCKED. I hated it, but at least the gameplay wasn't also terrible like FVIII's. At least (most of) ToS's cliches aren't over 2,000 years old.

So saying ToS's plot is better isn't saying it's good; it's more like saying getting slapped in the face is better than getting kicked in the balls and then beat within an inch of your life.

EDIT: At least ToS's romance is meant to be taken with some comedy (esp. after Sheena's arrival brings the whole love triangle dynamic into play), whereas I think FFX is supposed to be all serious about YunaxTidus, which was just...sad, somehow. It felt like an after-school special relationship rather than genuine (I can't explain why, it just came off that way to me).

Edited January 5, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Momo]

You could say the exact same thing about Symphonia for those first two. Hell, I could go much further but that would obviously be spoilers.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Momo

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

You could say the exact same thing about Symphonia for those first two. Hell, I could go much further but that would obviously be spoilers.

SPOILERS IF YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY TOS

Fair enough on first point.

Kratos isn't actually a villain. He's more of a "I'm doing this my way and using Colette as a tool to an end." Unlike with Seymour (who's characterization is three annoying boss battles, one of which is actually somewhat difficult, and the whole "Death is salvation" mantra), Kratos actually has some depth and reasoning to his actions.

END SPOILERS

Edited January 5, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Momo]

There's a spoiler tag, y'know.

Kratos essentially blurts out his biggest plot twist (he is lloyd's father) in like his first fucking line of dialogue. When I heard "YOU'RE Lloyd?" I couldn't even believe the game did that and spent the entire time hoping it was just fucking with me. "He couldn't really be his dad, right? They wouldn't blow their load that quickly, would they?" and yet they did. This also goes for like every other plot twist.

[shadowofchaos]

There's a spoiler tag, y'know.

Kratos essentially blurts out his biggest plot twist (he is lloyd's father) in like his first fucking line of dialogue. When I heard "YOU'RE Lloyd?" I couldn't even believe the game did that and spent the entire time hoping it was just fucking with me. "He couldn't really be his dad, right? They wouldn't blow their load that quickly, would they?" and yet they did. This also goes for like every other plot twist.

Better than Ranulf blurting out that

Zelgius is the Black Knight

OH WAIT. That's the same thing. XD

Edited January 5, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Kratos essentially blurts out his biggest plot twist (he is lloyd's father) in like his first fucking line of dialogue. When I heard "YOU'RE Lloyd?" I couldn't even believe the game did that and spent the entire time hoping it was just fucking with me. "He couldn't really be his dad, right? They wouldn't blow their load that quickly, would they?" and yet they did. This also goes for like every other plot twist.

About 5 seconds after learning Yuna was going on a "pilgrimage" to defeat Sin, I'm thinking "She's totally going to sacrifice herself." And I sit there through the game thinking "There's no fucking way they'd do something that obvious. No way. NOOOOO way." But then the writers trolled me when they managed to wrap THAT cliche in with the whole "religion establishment is evil" cliche. It's like getting dumped only to find out somebody did a hit-and-run with your car.

I feel your pain. But worse.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Momo]

FFX's story is all about how Spira revolves around death and sacrifice though, and Yuna's pilgrimage is only the first part of that. With Symphonia it was pretty much "How many plot twists can we dump on Kratos" He's the badass swordsman traitor and he's 4000 years old and he's actually a good guy and he's the key to getting the super special blade (I forget the name) and he's Lloyd's father. I'd feel sorry for the guy being so badly handled, if he wasn't so damn boring.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

FFX's story is all about how Spira revolves around death and sacrifice though, and Yuna's pilgrimage is only the first part of that. With Symphonia it was pretty much "How many plot twists can we dump on Kratos" He's the badass swordsman traitor and he's 4000 years old and he's actually a good guy and he's the key to getting the super special blade (I forget the name) and he's Lloyd's father. I'd feel sorry for the guy being so badly handled, if he wasn't so damn boring.

And just how many spoilers are dumped on Auron? I'm a hipster badass swordsman who kicks ass with one arm in a sling who's friends with your daddy, who's the shell of Sin. Did I mention I traveled with Yuna's father, rebelled (BETRAYing the tried and true tradition of Sin's sacrifice), DIED, resurrected as a ghost but I actually have a physical form. I also traveled through dimensions into a dream world of a Fayth to retrieve you, Tidus. This sounds...familiar...somehow. Oh right.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Momo]

Auron's plot developments are never used as a plot device though, while Kratos' do multiple times. I will admit I never saw the Auron = Kratos connection, though. Wow, Symphonia ripped that game off more than I realized.

[Racer]

woohoo! spoilers should I touch these?

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Auron's plot developments are never used as a plot device though, while Kratos' do multiple times. I will admit I never saw the Auron = Kratos connection, though. Wow, Symphonia ripped that game off more than I realized.

Fair enough, but it's not like Kratos is as integral to the plot as you say. I mean, he's gone half (or more) of the game, unlike Auron. Auron is the reason why Tidus even comes in the first place, which is a HUGE driver of the plot (at least later on down the road), practically guides and leads the group, and carries their asses combat-wise too; he's like God incarnate for 90% of the game, until the writers try to make him have faults with his whole "I couldn't stop Sin single-handedly and I died" -- however, this means that his one fault is that he isn't SO powerful as to stop a 1,000 year old "god" by himself, and the whole "I drove the entire plot after I died" makes him seem even more badass.

What we learn as plot spoilers from Kratos (mostly) is really just explainations of WHY he bretrayed Lloyd & Company, similar to Auron. But Auron, unlike Kratos, is like "Everybody's sucking on my tit to succeed and I'm the only source of backstory most of the time".

Edited January 6, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[deuxhero]

I didn't really like it. It was passable and I've sure played worse, but the story is VERY predictable and the battles, when only controlling one person, are pretty systematic use the same "combo" over and over because you can only map 4 attacks and except for one character with a skill you'll never discover without a guide, have very restrictive chaining rules (you can only link an attack to something the same level or higher and you can't use any attack from the same "series" twice and the enemies never adapt.

With at least one or two (it supports 4 people, but the game is balanced around keeping the dedicated healer in your party) friends, the battles do get a lot better (multiple people can co-operate to keep a combo going, which helps a LOT with the restrictions, the problem is the AI never bothers), and if you and the friend(s) are fans of MST3K and the like, it's pretty easy to have some hilarious snark over the cutscenes.

Edited January 6, 2012 by deuxhero

[Lord Raven]

I'm not saying that ToS had a great plot (although I think the characterization was decent enough), it's just that FFX is SO bad in the plot department that ToS manages to win. At least with ToS, I couldn't predict everything that was going to happen.

I couldn't either on account of being in middle school. FFX isn't meant to be unpredictable; predictability does not make a story bad, it just removes suspense. FFX didn't try for suspense, anyway, since suspense isn't apart of quality either.

- Oh hey, awkward silence when Tidus mentions returning. Yuna's obviously a human sacrifice.

Tidus didn't know she was a human sacrifice. Tidus has no clue what the fuck is going on and in his position I'd be doing almost the same thing. He's a human being, not a superhuman JRPG protagonist.

- Oh hey, Seymour! Obviously the villain here with the whole weirdness and creepy face. He's helping? Bullshit, he's probably going to backstab them. What's this? They all died? Derp.

He is a bad guy, but he's not the villain. On top of that, many of the party wasn't that fond of him starting out, not even die-hard conservative Wakka, and it only got worse from there. Of course he's obviously a villain anyway, since apart of the plot was the conspiracy behind the corrupt Yevon church.

- Oh hey, cutscene with Fayth with big Tidus reveal? This obviously means Tidus is going to sacrifice himself for Yuna since he obviously loves her, which means she's not going to die. But we kind of figured that.

Of course you did, that's the entire point. That's pretty much where the love story part kicks in, and FFX doesn't try for suspense and surprising plot twists; it just tries to tell a story and more power to the player if you can see them coming. The entire point is that Tidus is your avatar and you're like "wtf?" when Auron tells you these weird things about your father is Sin... and then only you end up knowing that you're going to want to sacrifice yourself to save the world (not necessarily Yuna, but their love more or less made Yuna resist the Final Summoning and kill Yunalesca).

It's like FFX took the bible and made some weird sci-fi/fantasy hybrid of it, and the plot SUCKED. I hated it, but at least the gameplay wasn't also terrible like FVIII's. At least (most of) ToS's cliches aren't over 2,000 years old.

The bible didn't say anything about Jesus' dad doing the same thing 10 years prior, nor did it say anything about a random dude from another world assisting the person that was going to sacrifice themselves. Nor did it say Jesus had two close friends helping him at all times, as well as his father's guardian. Seriously, why does everyone think a "sacrificial pilgrimage" always is the same as the Bible? FFX and the Bible have little in common other than that.

So saying ToS's plot is better isn't saying it's good; it's more like saying getting slapped in the face is better than getting kicked in the balls and then beat within an inch of your life.

Except you liked TOS' plot (you changed your stance many times- "It's like FFX without the suck" was your original point and you seem to think TOS has a shitty plot now).

EDIT: At least ToS's romance is meant to be taken with some comedy (esp. after Sheena's arrival brings the whole love triangle dynamic into play), whereas I think FFX is supposed to be all serious about YunaxTidus, which was just...sad, somehow. It felt like an after-school special relationship rather than genuine (I can't explain why, it just came off that way to me).

Not all romance is meant to be taken with comedy. FFX's romance was played into the plot. And their relationship seemed perfectly genuine- not nearly as nuanced as Squall/Rinoa) but you could definitely see from the start that they were in love and everything was built off of that.

Fair enough on first point.

Kratos isn't actually a villain. He's more of a "I'm doing this my way and using Colette as a tool to an end." Unlike with Seymour (who's characterization is three annoying boss battles, one of which is actually somewhat difficult, and the whole "Death is salvation" mantra), Kratos actually has some depth and reasoning to his actions.

Seymour's motive is no different from Mithos'; he wants to become Sin so he could destroy and recreate humanity and make it free of the racism that destroyed his family and his childhood. And to be honest, they didn't even intend Seymour to be that deep a villain; by the third or fourth battle the party was like "what the fuck, are you dead yet." Pretty much everything after the wedding scene, Seymour was not taken seriously at all. It doesn't matter what Seymour's motive is; he was driven insane by seeing his mother turn into Anima (quite possibly one of the most disturbing summons in the history of the FF series). Ergo, the point is that Seymour is not the main villain so much an obstacle and a pawn in the playings of the corrupt church (or he's trying to make them their pawns, it works both ways). And frankly, I think Seymour draws more of a parallel to Mithos if anything, but I feel as if Seymour's characterization is more realistic than Mithos' (you don't turn nihilistic because your sister dies, you turn nihilistic because you go through your entire childhood abused due to your race and before you're even in the double digits watch your mother turn into a horrendous beast in the middle of the ruins of Zanarkand trying to protect you and remain sane).

Also Seymour Flux was a bitch to fight, I don't really like every one of my characters taking 4000 damage every other turn.

Fair enough, but it's not like Kratos is as integral to the plot as you say. I mean, he's gone half (or more) of the game, unlike Auron. Auron is the reason why Tidus even comes in the first place, which is a HUGE driver of the plot (at least later on down the road), practically guides and leads the group, and carries their asses combat-wise too; he's like God incarnate for 90% of the game, until the writers try to make him have faults with his whole "I couldn't stop Sin single-handedly and I died" -- however, this means that his one fault is that he isn't SO powerful as to stop a 1,000 year old "god" by himself, and the whole "I drove the entire plot after I died" makes him seem even more badass.

Kratos is pretty integral to the plot despite being gone for half of the game- it's like saying Yu Yevon had nothing to do with the plot just because he was the (fake) Final Boss of the game. He gave birth to Lloyd, thought they were dead and then continued to live out his part in Mithos' goals until a ray of light (in the form of Lloyd) shone on him. He was integral to finding out just how the hell to make the Eternal Sword wieldable by a human, he kept track of Derris-Kharlan and as a whole pushed the party to the Tower of Salvation. He's also Origin's Seal which was a massive part of the goals of MANY people; he was a pretty big driver in the plot.

Auron is not the reason Tidus comes over. If Auron weren't there, then Tidus would merely not be able to defend himself as well; the fayth more or less wouldn't made damn sure themselves that Tidus would come to Spira simply because they wanted to "end their dreaming."

Anyways, Auron isn't "God incarnate" so much as the legendary warrior who helped defeat Sin 10 years prior. Except that the writers indeed made him have faults- he couldn't stop his friends and he could not control his own fury which caused him to be killed. One of the sadder scenes in the game is where he slashes the hologram of himself repeatedly. They paint him as an atoner that will find a way to make sure Sin is forever killed and that his friends' sacrifices didn't go to waste. The "badass" portion I felt was a little bit inadvertent, because I would think not preventing your friends from dying and becoming Sin would leave a nice scar in your mind too.

(Auron's slow as shit btw, I thought the only thing good about him were his abilities to break enemy's defenses and the fact that he plays out like a Sentinel. FFX doesn't have a single broken/Godly character; everyone save Kimahri is generally balanced throughout the game and you need a little of everyone's power to get through).

What we learn as plot spoilers from Kratos (mostly) is really just explainations of WHY he bretrayed Lloyd & Company, similar to Auron. But Auron, unlike Kratos, is like "Everybody's sucking on my tit to succeed and I'm the only source of backstory most of the time".

He's not the only source of backstory. He explains everything to Tidus because Auron knew Jecht through the previous adventure. People suck on his tits at times but he resents that heavily because of what that means to him.

And just how many spoilers are dumped on Auron? I'm a hipster badass swordsman who kicks ass with one arm in a sling who's friends with your daddy, who's the shell of Sin. Did I mention I traveled with Yuna's father, rebelled (BETRAYing the tried and true tradition of Sin's sacrifice), DIED, resurrected as a ghost but I actually have a physical form. I also traveled through dimensions into a dream world of a Fayth to retrieve you, Tidus. This sounds...familiar...somehow. Oh right.

What's your point, exactly?

Overall you have no clue what you're talking about. My other problem with ToS is something that was a retroactive problem in my eyes; the jokes and the traditions are the same. There's the fight at the beginning of the game that starts to go into this "let's kill all cliches!" mode that Tales games seem to go in (and they're generally impossible boss fights), there's the one on one duel, the girl that is picked on for having tits, the idiot hero and the ditzy/clueless girl, and then the guy who betrays you. It's one of the most formulaic game series ever, and it does it in such a way where it tries but ultimately fails at not seeming like it is.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Mercenary Raven

[Narga_Rocks]

Entertaining though this is, could we stick to the topic and not derail? If you'd like to continue (I vote please), make a new topic. "FFX vs ToS. Which is worse?"