Rate the Unit, Day 36: Harken

[eclipse]

Hmmm. . .dunno why everyone thinks Harken looks good (I prefer Rath). His story is silly, but his stats are not. HHM means he gets a boost, and he's recruitable by someone that you have to have (Hector), and someone that has a pretty good reason to be in your party anyway (Marcus). He can chuck stuff, he can cross rivers, and unless you're stupid about it, he's probably not gonna die. Raven beats Harken in Speed and maybe HP. Raven will reach Harken's base defensive parameters approximately never, so unless Raven's fully supported or something, he's getting booted off the team for CoD.

9/10, since I think those two are interchangable.

[Junkhead]

8.

He has amazing stats for a prepromote. Now, if only he came a little earlier...

[Geriba]

8/10 for reasons already echoed by others: bases, WRs, etc.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

8.5/10

He's probably tied than a very well-trained Raven with bonus CON and weapon rank. He's an amazing filler and comes with a brave sword to boot. The only reason why I don't tie him with Raven at 9/10 is he comes just a couple chapters too late...

Edited January 25, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Raven]

Harken's a good unit, but Raven outshines him in the stats that matter the most (Str, HP, Speed and Skill). However I'm not planning to rate a unit based on comparisons, so that doesn't really matter.

What does matter is: How much is Harken worth from the time he joins?

His growths aren't really all that fantastic in any particular area, but his HHM bases are pretty well up there in comparison to other prepromoted units, matched or only slightly beaten by other units that have joined earlier.

However, it is very hard to not take join time into consideration so late into the game, so I do believe lowering the score based on join time and availability of other units is reasonable.

Raven's rating: 65%

[Renall]

7.5/10. A great prepromote, good stats on HHM, brings a useful Brave Sword that he doesn't need to keep if you want to pass it around. He's not Raven, but he makes a decent complement to him, mostly as a better-CON unit who can be slightly faster with heavier weapons like Axes and Blades and effective weapons when that matters, while Raven uses whatever is situationally appropriate.

Availability hurts and no horse and his growths aren't great, so if Raven got blessed enough to be basically superior then he's only going to stay that way over time. But he's real nice for what he is, and he doesn't really appreciably fail in any specific area.

[Ansem]

10/10 He has something Raven doesnt have, Axe rank. An A in sword rank would have been nice tho...

[Esaka]

fffffffffffffffffffffff yeah Blond Raven!!!!

9/10

[dondon151]

solid unit 5/10

Harken's a good unit, but Raven outshines him in the stats that matter the most (Str, HP, Speed and Skill).

uh no he doesn't

raven doesn't reach harken's base str until 20/10

raven doesn't tie harken's base skl until 20/4 (not like skl is an important stat anyway)

harken is about as physically durable and much more magically durable than 20/6 raven

raven's only win is spd, and it's not an important win.

[Renall]

raven's only win is spd, and it's not an important win.

Well, that and availability by a lot.

EDIT: Why did I say Raven had more CON when I already said Harken had more CON?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Renall

[Aran613]

THOSE BASES.

And that sword.

But no horse or wyvern. :(

8/10

[Raven]

solid unit 5/10

uh no he doesn't

raven doesn't reach harken's base str until 20/10

raven doesn't tie harken's base skl until 20/4 (not like skl is an important stat anyway)

harken is about as physically durable and much more magically durable than 20/6 raven

raven's only win is spd, and it's not an important win.

Let's see.

HHM base stats are assumed, since we are discussing HHM here:

Harken's base Str is 23.

Raven reaches 23 Str by Lv 20/6 (23.20)

Not 20/10 like you claim. For HNM bases, you're correct. But here, you're wrong.

You are still correct about the Skl, which is 20/4. But I'll agree that doesn't matter so much.

Edit: Sorry, got my data wrong/mixed up here in regards to Skl:

Raven reaches 22 Skl on promotion. Which is nice, but unimportant, as stated.

You did however disregard HP so I'll just throw that in:

Harken's base HP is 42.

Raven reaches 42 HP by Lv 17 (42.60)

So, Raven's Spd is most certainly not his "only" win.

A 20/5 Raven has a full 10.55 HP over Harken. This certainly adds to his durability, despite Harken having +2.25 defense and +3.55 Res over a 20/5 Raven. Raven's also avoiding a lot more hits with his 27.35 Spd at 20/5 over Harken's 18 Spd (Even with the -2 Con Hero Raven has, he's still doubling more enemies despite the -3 Spd brought on by the Hand axe. Even Harken's losing 1 Spd to a Hand axe), as well as the supports he's worked up throughout the chapters he's been present in chipping his stats up.

I did not factor this stuff into my score I gave to harken (that was 65%), but if I did I'd give Harken only 30% because he's outshined by earlier joining units, such as Raven.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Railgunz

[Smiley Jim]

Harken is leagues better than Karel. By a lot.

But that's not enough to give out a rating, so let's look at his stats. This guy has some really beastly offense. 23 str/18 spd gives him 31 atk/17AS with a hand axe, which easily ORKO's the toughest unpromoted enemies in the game at his join point(armors and wyverns). Against durable promoted enemies like wyvern lords, he can pick up the killer axe for 34 atk/18AS and 41% crit at base, which 3HKO's even 50HP/16def wyvern lords and 43HP/20def generals in NoF with a 65% overall chance of a ORKO, though he could use the brave sword he comes with(31atk w/ WTD)and one round wyvern lords with it. Obviously hammer ORKO's gens. He doesn't have the ranks fro silvers, but with enough atk to ORKO most shit with hand axe with killer taking care of the rest, like who cares. His offensive growths are lame(35str/40spd), but 18 spd is still more than enough to double most things, and he's 2 away from capping str anyway.

His durability is very impressive. 42HP/16def can take 3 hits or more from most enemies, and is 3HKO'd by the toughest enemies, which he usually has WTA on anyway. His resistance is also beastly for his class; 11 res takes lol from monks, and with a pure water, is virtually indestructible against unpromoted magi. And even against promoted magi, he takes like 10 damage from sages and 15 from druids. For reference, Raven would need to be 20/16 and have used a talisman to match Harken's base res. Unlike his offensive growths, Harken's durability growths are actually slightly better than Raven's, so he can maintain a durability lead.

Supports for a unit joining this late are lol but he has a fast support with Isadorable(like 40 base and +4 per turn together), so you might want to check it out.

In any case, the only gripes about him are that he joins late, which means that he isn't as useful as Raven has been for the past 10 maps despite needing exp to get to ~14/1, and also that he doesn't have a pony or a wyvern(men can't ride Pegasi, so FalconKnight is out). So he's not bad overall.

7

[dondon151]

Harken's base Str is 23.

Raven reaches 23 Str by Lv 20/6 (23.20)

Not 20/10 like you claim. For HNM bases, you're correct. But here, you're wrong.

guy who always uses obnoxious red text does not know how to do math

raven reaches 21.2 str at 20/10 under his HNM bases, gets +2 str from HHM bonus. 23.2 str. i'm right and you're wrong.

Raven reaches 22 Skl on promotion. Which is nice, but unimportant, as stated.

raven reaches 21 skl at 20/1. add ~3 levels (so 20/4) for 22 skl.

You did however disregard HP so I'll just throw that in:

Harken's base HP is 42.

Raven reaches 42 HP by Lv 17 (42.60)

So, Raven's Spd is most certainly not his "only" win.

i don't know what the hell you're smoking, but raven only averages 39.2 HP at 17/0.

A 20/5 Raven has a full 10.55 HP over Harken. This certainly adds to his durability, despite Harken having +2.25 defense and +3.55 Res over a 20/5 Raven. Raven's also avoiding a lot more hits with his 27.35 Spd at 20/5 over Harken's 18 Spd (Even with the -2 Con Hero Raven has, he's still doubling more enemies despite the -3 Spd brought on by the Hand axe. Even Harken's losing 1 Spd to a Hand axe), as well as the supports he's worked up throughout the chapters he's been present in chipping his stats up.

i don't know how you are making these numbers up. raven at 20/6 has 8 HP over harken. that's great, but he also loses 3 def and 4 res. unless they're both exactly 2hko'd or worse (i.e. almost never), harken wins the durability parameter. raven's avo lead is mostly irrelevant (harken's avo is already excellent, and good concrete durability means that he doesn't care about getting hit a few times anyway), and he certainly doesn't have 27.35 spd even at 20/6 because it's impossible due to the tier 1 spd cap (oops, another math fail on your part!). if you factor in AS loss from weapons as heavy as 11 WT, raven only wins avo by ~5.

supports don't exist and are stupid anyway, moving on

I did not factor this stuff into my score I gave to harken (that was 65%), but if I did I'd give Harken only 30% because he's outshined by earlier joining units, such as Raven.

i think this post pretty adequately indicates that raven is the one outclassed by harken.

[Anouleth]

Hahaha, 27.35 speed at 20/5. Raven would have to break his speed cap twice in order to reach that, once in first tier, once in second tier.

It looks to me like he counted Raven's HHM bonuses twice.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Anouleth

[Geriba]

guy who always uses obnoxious red text does not know how to do math

Oh snap, Emperor Donny laying down the law and firing off bullets ITT. Jaffar approves

EDIT: sorry, forgot DAT red text

Edited January 26, 2012 by God Brady

[Raven]

guy who always uses obnoxious red text does not know how to do math

raven reaches 21.2 str at 20/10 under his HNM bases, gets +2 str from HHM bonus. 23.2 str. i'm right and you're wrong.

raven reaches 21 skl at 20/1. add ~3 levels (so 20/4) for 22 skl.

i don't know what the hell you're smoking, but raven only averages 39.2 HP at 17/0.

i don't know how you are making these numbers up. raven at 20/6 has 8 HP over harken. that's great, but he also loses 3 def and 4 res. unless they're both exactly 2hko'd or worse (i.e. almost never), harken wins the durability parameter. raven's avo lead is mostly irrelevant (harken's avo is already excellent, and good concrete durability means that he doesn't care about getting hit a few times anyway), and he certainly doesn't have 27.35 spd even at 20/6 because it's impossible due to the tier 1 spd cap (oops, another math fail on your part!). if you factor in AS loss from weapons as heavy as 11 WT, raven only wins avo by ~5.

supports don't exist and are stupid anyway, moving on

i think this post pretty adequately indicates that raven is the one outclassed by harken.

I was wrong. If you would give me an opportunity to explain why I was wrong that would be greatly appreciated. The problem lies with the fact I was using my Excel stat calculator, and I forgot to 'cap' the stats at 20, instead they overflowed to other such higher numbers that would have been impossible to reach before promotion. Another large thing is the fact that I had Raven's Lv5 bases set at Lv1, another error on my part. So you are in fact correct. Well done.

You think my red text is 'obnoxious'? I've used it ever since I registered, so you're going to have to continue to deal with it because I like posting in red. Or there is always the option of setting my posts to 'ignore'. Up to you what you do, but bear in mind I don't really give a shit about what you think or do.