Draft Minimafia

[Grace]

Something that came to my head while doing other stuff (like be lazy and not re-read): Proto said he was a vanilla yesterday: Why would you lynch an unknown (which could have been a PR, which Blitz was) instead? That's what concerns me. Because I doubt that Proto would be town trying to fakeclaim vanilla to go undercover as town, and a scum!Proto probably wouldn't fakeclaim vanilla anyway because it's too dangerous, particularly given the wagon that was on him yesterday.

This is what I wonder, because lynching a vanilla would hurt town less than lynch a town PR.

And since Prims seemed to convince BBM to vote Blitz (again, why) because they've said so recently, I'm beginning to wonder about Prims again. Prims, what is the value of lynching a possible (emphasis on possible) PR over someone who claimed vanilla? Actually, I pose that question to everyone. Particularly the ones that voted for Blitz in that last minute powerwagon (Prims, Bizz and BBM). IE: Why I think that Prims and BBM are buddies, and also why BBM is scummy to me as well. It was because of BBM's last minute vote change that got Blitz lynched instead of Proto.

(reminder: I didn't vote Blitz, I was absent for deadline and had unvoted)

in lieu of me reading the thread, you can have this instead. This is the reasonable thing I said I'd post, even though I had hoped for more. I'm still not quite feeling it.

[Grace]

Better yet, why lynch someone over just one bad post, when they made fairly (key word here) good contributions throughout the day? Seriously, come on now.

Even better, at a time when they couldn't defend themselves (hey, that sounds familiar, and that didn't end well). The lynch yesterday should have been either Proto or me, tbqh. Either would have been fine, because town wouldn't have lost as much.

But today, I do care about being lynched, because town cannot afford a mislynch that won't be worth it. Which, given my contributions, wouldn't be a good way to spend a mislynch that puts town at MYLO. ie: we need to find scum today, or town is fucked. And surprise: I'm not it.

[Grace]

It's also worth noting that I think his content has improved significantly since D1 and have found myself nodding along with his points here and there. Why is BBM scum?

this post irked the fuck out of me, and I need to address it.

Because, I don't know, he might be scum leading you along? Just because his points are good does not clear him in THE slightest. Heck, if you were buddies with him, I'd almost say you're trying to protect him from being lynched at this point.

And I've already pointed out the Blitz wagon problems, and since you provoked him into it, if he's town (for whatever reason), it reflects incredibly badly on you. Heck, if he flips scum, it still could be considered that you planned to tell him to go along with what appears to be in thread.

Not to mention would BBM did was effectively a quickhammer, which is pretty much scum territory.

[Grace]

so basically, Prims convinced someone onto the last minute powerwagon to lynch someone who could have possibly been a PR instead from a vanilla who wouldn't have had town lose as much for their lynch.

##Vote: Prims

while BBM looks scummy, I'm finding Prims scummier again. And he's buddying with BBM pretty hard, so a Prims lynch will tell us whether BBM is likely town or not.

[Kriemhild]

I still don't know if lynching Prims is a good idea, but I do agree that we can learn a whole lot from it. I don't wanna lynch Manix, though Elieson is looking much better now.

##Unvote

Also, I'm worried that Rothene might be scum, because I have trouble reading him and so does everyone else. BBM... idk atm. Bizz, not sure why but she looks Townish. Currently, I think it's either Prims+BBM or Bizz+Elieson, with Rothene being a joker card that can replace any of those.

[Grace]

I still don't know if lynching Prims is a good idea, but I do agree that we can learn a whole lot from it. I don't wanna lynch Manix, though Elieson is looking much better now.

##Unvote

Also, I'm worried that Rothene might be scum, because I have trouble reading him and so does everyone else. BBM... idk atm. Bizz, not sure why but she looks Townish. Currently, I think it's either Prims+BBM or Bizz+Elieson, with Rothene being a joker card that can replace any of those.

@bold: also, Rothene did spill that there was a Amnesiac in the game. That doesn't look great FMPOV for ~reasons, but considering that, we shouldn't lose whatever role Prims has if we lynch him.

@italics: That's my other concern, but the only way Rothene is scum is if Prims is his scumbuddy, again, because of ~reasons

[Kriemhild]

Manix, don't dismiss the possibility of a Mafia Amnesiac.

[Grace]

not at all. But that points towards only one thing FMPOV, which isn't very likely.

[BBM]

When we lynch someone, it should be someone we are at least 90% sure is mafia (unlikely, especially in a game with no Cop), or someone who has a decent chance of flipping scum, but more importantly, will give us information upon their flip. Like I said right after Blitz flipped town, it's unfortunate that we lynched a power role, but we still got something from that Blitz lynch that we wouldn't have from the Proto lynch. Speaking from an objective manner, the town now has reason to suspect Prims, Bizz, and I for starting a last-minute wagon on Blitz that mostly came from nowhere. What would we have gotten from Proto's lynch, other than saving a power role? We would have said, "Damn, we mislynched, but Proto behaved scummy so we can't be sure if the people who voted for him are town or bandwagoning scum", and that would have been it. I regret lynching a power role, but I don't regret the lynch on Blitz. And you guys are keen on voting for me because I was the hammer, but what about the other people who were part of that wagon? They were just as responsible for Blitz's lynch as I was.

[Percivalé]

I don't think that BBM is auto-scum for being the hammer on Blitz, but notice in his post above me how hes making sure that everyone on the wagon gets equal suspicion, which can be seen as attempting to slide some of the suspicion off of his back in a subtle manner, which bothers me a little bit.

Reading this thread over again makes me want to lynch Prims more and more. I really don't know how what we gain from it will be any less than what we lose.

[BBM]

And, also, Blitz's last post wasn't the only scummy thing he did. Look at his posts in iso.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&andor_type=&sid=1e6d070f49ae462c7188662752eb4a92&search_author=Cap%26%2339%3Bn+Flint&cType=topic&cId=33440&search_term=&search_app=forums&st=0

Early in the phase he's in RVS and is prodding people to talk, but he never posts anything of importance himself, other than beginning the discussion about what roles people could have picked. But that's not a discussion that's going to get anything. In the middle of the phase, he says what just about everyone said about Proto's NL vote, and says a bit about Prims. This is basically the only thing of value he contributes the whole day. And then near the end of the phase, he drops a vote on a person he hasn't said a single thing about all phase. In the post where he votes for a lynch on Elieson, he calls the scumteam as Prims + Elieson. But he chooses to vote for Elieson instead of Prims, who's pretty much the only person he really said anything about. I think he acted just as scummy as Proto did.

This will probably be my last post until tomorrow/late tonight.

[BBM]

I don't think that BBM is auto-scum for being the hammer on Blitz, but notice in his post above me how hes making sure that everyone on the wagon gets equal suspicion, which can be seen as attempting to slide some of the suspicion off of his back in a subtle manner, which bothers me a little bit.

Reading this thread over again makes me want to lynch Prims more and more. I really don't know how what we gain from it will be any less than what we lose.

You ninja, you. I guess I was trying to slide the attention off a bit, but my main intention was just to make sure that if people were suspicious of me were doing something, they were suspicious of everyone else who did the same thing. No double standards.

[Percivalé]

he calls the scumteam as Prims + Elieson.

Oh god watch him be right, too D:

Ugh, I really am seeing a lot of benefits to a Prims lynch. I want to get a bit more feedback on it before I go at it, but lynching anyone else (even BBM) just doesn't seem plausible enough to me right now, except maybe even Elieson.

And what I meant about how I thought at least one of the vanilla claims was scum was that we have three vanilla claims and four supposed PRs (although Manix kinda softclaimed vanilla, so make that three?). I'm not scum, so that leaves Prims and BBM. We're wary of them because they're unknown to us, barring Prims's incredibly vague hint at the beginning of the game. But what if we find out that one of them is town? I think it's likely that one of the vanilla claims is lying.

[Prims]

My lynch is a terrible idea and you guys need to rethink your dayplan if you are literally considering lynching for information over lynching scum. I don't have anything else to say, consenting to your own lynch isn't townie because lynching scum > information every single time.

Manix - People can defend other players without being buddies.

[Prims]

It's also worth noting that I don't want to have to claim until LYLO.

[Percivalé]

what if I think you're scum?

[Prims]

what if I think you're scum?

Post why and I'll respond. If you've actually been paying attention to the thread I should be obvtown imo but that might be PoV bias so whatever.

Also:

Reading this thread over again makes me want to lynch Prims more and more. I really don't know how what we gain from it will be any less than what we lose.

I don't know, because you lose somebody who's confirmed to be a PR and going to LYLO knowing "prims was town" isn't actually going to be better than lynching scum today and putting off LYLO until D4? Honestly I'm softclaiming all over the damn place and have an easy out of being lynched so you'll probably get my flip anyway when I turn up dead overnight.

If I sound irritated then it's because this "HURR DURR LET'S LYNCH PRIMS FOR INFORMATION" trend is terribad. Lynching for information is not a substitute for lynching people for being scum, ever. Which is another reason Manix needs to go because holy shit when's the last time you saw him vote somebody because he thought they were scum???? He's not playing the game the way a townie would and he's the one responsible for promoting this train of thought.

[Prims]

On second thought I see this heading toward my lynch.

Should I claim?

I can BASICALLY confirm somebody else as very, very likely to be town through doing so but it would inconvenience them in the process. Not sure it's worth it.

[Prims]

Again I would rather not do this until LYLO but if it gets derps to stop being derps then okay.

[Percivalé]

stop trying to make us feel guilty for suspecting you and I won't vote you. I haven't even voted you in the first place yet despite heavily considering it, but I really didn't like how you keep pointing out that it's a stupid idea to lynch you because imo that's a scumtell. I don't fucking care if from your pov it's a stupid idea to suspect you because there's a lot of reason to suspect you, and not everyone shares your train of thought. If you don't want to be lynched, fine, but I want your opinion on who, besides Manix, might be scum. I suppose I could go for an Elieson/Manix lynch but, again, I just feel really weird about Manix.

[Prims]

Thinking about it, it might be a good idea for me to do this anyway since it should narrow the lynch pool down to three players (four if you think Rothene isn't obvtown). I'm just worried it'll fuck things up for the person my psuedoclear is on. <_<

[Percivalé]

and who's obvtown to you isn't obvtown to everyone else, so stop talking like it's a straight objective fact that BBM is town and so on.'

[Percivalé]

If you want to claim, go ahead and claim. If you still don't feel comfortable claiming, don't claim. I don't want to push you into claiming if you still feel it isn't a good idea, but you're going to be a scum target tonight if what you say is true, so keep that in mind I guess.

[Prims]

If you don't want to be lynched, fine, but I want your opinion on who, besides Manix, might be scum.

His buddy is most likely between Elieson and Proto but I am damn sold on scum!Manix and will be sad if I have to settle on any other lynch today.

I think Elie is more likely to be scum than Proto because he's still pushing me for being secretive during early D1 in the middle of D2. Actively supporting both sides of Prims vs. Manix while also condemning them is scummy as well since a townie should have a clear opinion on which side of the argument is more likely to flip scum, BBM already pointed this out I believe. It's scummy to take Elie's position on the ordeal because if one of the two people involved in the scuffle is your buddy, you can easily switch to them if you need to bus, or if both are townies, you're basically egging them on and directing the lynch toward them. Also Proto has been a town read since his reaction to being wagoned yesterday.

Also getting frustrated at your lynch isn't a scumtell what the fuck. No if somebody is getting lynched for no reason they're gonna be pissed regardless of alignment. It's highly dependent on the vitriol of the player in question though.

I'm more irritated at the suggestions of "let's lynch Prims for INFORMATION" because that's bad play.

[Paperblade]

Prims (2): Levity, Elieson, Manix

Manix (2): Prims, Rothene

Elieson (1): BBM, Levity, Proto

BBM (0): Rothene, Manix, Levity

Voteless Scum: Proto, Levity