"I just want to know one thing!" - FE13 Edition

[Quick]

I posted this earlier, but I didn't get any responses. I hope it's okay if I repost it.

I'm aware that most DLC (with the exception of The Strongest One's Name) have different stats per difficulty, so how much of a difference do those changes make between Hard mode and Lunatic? For me it's go hard or go home, but at the same time Lunatic makes it a lot harder to create endgame sets easily and it's not worth it if the difference is minuscule.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Quick

[Othin]

I posted this earlier, but I didn't get any responses. I hope it's okay if I repost it.

I'm aware that most DLC (with the exception of The Strongest One's Name) have different stats per difficulty, so how much of a difference do those changes make between Hard mode and Lunatic? For me it's go hard or go home, but at the same time Lunatic makes it a lot harder to create endgame sets easily and it's not worth it if the difference is minuscule.

You've played the demo, right? And compared Lunatic to Hard?

Think that scale of difference. In other words, huge.

[Quick]

You've played the demo, right? And compared Lunatic to Hard?

Think that scale of difference. In other words, huge.

I see, well the internal cap of level 50 is going to suck for me. Oh well, I was just assuming that since the DLC is released after the actual game they might not make the difficulties matter as much, guess I was wrong.

[Crimsonis]

Exact breakdown: 1-4 and 17 are automatic from story progression. 5-16 are all children-based. 18-23 are SpotPass ones and post-Ch25 only.

Wait, do you have to BEAT the final chapter to unlock those side quests, or are they unlocked with the final chapter?

[Book of Ereshkigal]

With.

The game doesn't save after you beat final anyway.

[Othin]

I see, well the internal cap of level 50 is going to suck for me. Oh well, I was just assuming that since the DLC is released after the actual game they might not make the difficulties matter as much, guess I was wrong.

The low Exp gains at excessively grinded levels will hurt, but if you're planning on grinding that much to the point that you're probably filling Limit Breaker caps, you're not going to get much of a challenge from the non-final DLC regardless of the difficulty level. I've managed to have maxed Avatars solo other Ultimate Training maps even on Lunatic with basically no trouble. So while that'll make a difference for when you challenge DLC maps in the main story and how much you'll need to grind for them, ultimately, it's just the MAX DLC that'll matter at those levels, and as you know, it's uniform.

[Quick]

The low Exp gains at excessively grinded levels will hurt, but if you're planning on grinding that much to the point that you're probably filling Limit Breaker caps, you're not going to get much of a challenge from the non-final DLC regardless of the difficulty level. I've managed to have maxed Avatars solo other Ultimate Training maps even on Lunatic with basically no trouble. So while that'll make a difference for when you challenge DLC maps in the main story and how much you'll need to grind for them, ultimately, it's just the MAX DLC that'll matter at those levels, and as you know, it's uniform.

Not even the ones with Level 20 all? (Ephraim, Ike's, and maybe another one I'm not aware of) That seems a little hard to believe but I guess it is true.

Just for reference, what is the level cap for each mode? Since that is basically the main reason why I'm choosing between modes for my endgame file. (Still doing Lunatic during my "legit" run however for obvious reasons)

[Gold Vanguard]

Is the Merchant class NPC only?

[Othin]

Yep. Ultimate Training is even harder than the set you're thinking of.

Normal: 20

Hard: 30

Lunatic: 50

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Is the Merchant class NPC only?

Yes.

Edited January 24, 2013 by L95

[Othin]

Is the Merchant class NPC only?

Almost.

The Anna that acts as the final, secret boss of the hardest DLC also has the class, but with absolutely no regard for the class's parameters as seen in any other context.

[Quick]

Yep. Ultimate Training is even harder than the set you're thinking of.

Normal: 20

Hard: 30

Lunatic: 50

.....Lunatic Mode for me. I wonder how Lunatic Mode's level cap is higher than the others before major decay in EXP. I'm glad though at the same time, as I feel less bad for "going the easy way out."

[Othin]

.....Lunatic Mode for me. I wonder how Lunatic Mode's level cap is higher than the others before major decay in EXP. I'm glad though at the same time, as I feel less bad for "going the easy way out."

Hm?

To be clear, I'm talking about the internal level cap. Higher means worse, since it just means Exp gains take longer to stop dropping.

[Quick]

Hm?

To be clear, I'm talking about the internal level cap. Higher means worse, since it just means Exp gains take longer to stop dropping.

I am confused, how is it a bad thing to take longer to drop EXP? Am I merely misinterpreting it?

[Othin]

I am confused, how is it a bad thing to take longer to drop EXP? Am I merely misinterpreting it?

They both start decreasing Exp immediately as you gain levels. However, on Normal, that only keeps happening until your internal levels hit the "cap" of 20, at which point it stops counting. On higher difficulty levels, it counts for longer, so Exp gains end up dropping lower in the long run.

Say you level up Lon'qu to LV20 as a Swordmaster and then reclass him to Trickster. Swordmaster LV20 is counted as LV40 (since promoted means level +20), so the game stores 20 internal levels for him - half of what he had. He'll be a LV1 Trickster, which would ordinarily mean he'd gain Exp as a LV21 unit, but because of the 20 internal levels, he instead has the much lower Exp gains of a LV41 unit.

Now say you level him up to LV20 again as a Trickster and reclass him to Assassin. As another promoted class, Trickster LV20 is counted as LV40, so the game stores another 20 internal levels, for a total of 40. This means that as a LV1 Assassin, he gains Exp as a LV61 unit, which is just terrible. Fortunately, it only gets this bad on Lunatic (and Lunatic+). See, on Normal, the internal level "cap" means it stops counting at 20, so he'll still have just 20 internal levels and get counted as a LV41 unit again. On Hard, it stops counting at 30, so he'll be counted as a LV51 unit. On Lunatic, if you keep going and max out his internal levels, he'll start out any promoted class counting as a LV71 unit and LV20 in a promoted class will function as if he's reaching LV90. Obviously, this makes grinding to high levels much more difficult.

[Quick]

They both start decreasing Exp immediately as you gain levels. However, on Normal, that only keeps happening until your internal levels hit the "cap" of 20, at which point it stops counting. On higher difficulty levels, it counts for longer, so Exp gains end up dropping lower in the long run.

Say you level up Lon'qu to LV20 as a Swordmaster and then reclass him to Trickster. Swordmaster LV20 is counted as LV40 (since promoted means level +20), so the game stores 20 internal levels for him - half of what he had. He'll be a LV1 Trickster, which would ordinarily mean he'd gain Exp as a LV21 unit, but because of the 20 internal levels, he instead has the much lower Exp gains of a LV41 unit.

Now say you level him up to LV20 again as a Trickster and reclass him to Assassin. As another promoted class, Trickster LV20 is counted as LV40, so the game stores another 20 internal levels, for a total of 40. This means that as a LV1 Assassin, he gains Exp as a LV61 unit, which is just terrible. Fortunately, it only gets this bad on Lunatic (and Lunatic+). See, on Normal, the internal level "cap" means it stops counting at 20, so he'll still have just 20 internal levels and get counted as a LV41 unit again. On Hard, it stops counting at 30, so he'll be counted as a LV51 unit. On Lunatic, if you keep going and max out his internal levels, he'll start out any promoted class counting as a LV71 unit and LV20 in a promoted class will function as if he's reaching LV90. Obviously, this makes grinding to high levels much more difficult.

That explains it. It seems very punishing but I guess it's for those who don't play for the endgame. In that case, I might go to Hard Mode, but it's very difficult for me to decide yet, so I'm going to try a method that's probably gimmicky as all things. If a capped Ephraim as a Paladin with Limit Breaker can't tank entire armies in Lunatic but can in hard, then Lunatic. (As from what you've told me from how spiking the difficulty is although you also said it probably won't matter if you cap all the way), I believe this to be partially true) If not, the other way around. It's probably really stupid but whatever.

Thanks a lot for the help!

Edited January 25, 2013 by Quick

[Othin]

That explains it. It seems very punishing but I guess it's for those who don't play for the endgame. In that case, I might go to Hard Mode, but it's very difficult for me to decide yet, so I'm going to try a method that's probably gimmicky as all things. If a capped Ephraim as a Paladin with Limit Breaker and Resistance +10 can't tank entire armies in Lunatic but can in hard, then Lunatic. If not, the other way around. It's probably really stupid but whatever.

A capped Paladin with Limit Breaker can tank any entire map other than the MAX DLC on any difficulty level.

[Lord Raven]

That explains it. It seems very punishing but I guess it's for those who don't play for the endgame. In that case, I might go to Hard Mode, but it's very difficult for me to decide yet, so I'm going to try a method that's probably gimmicky as all things. If a capped Ephraim as a Paladin with Limit Breaker can't tank entire armies in Lunatic but can in hard, then Lunatic. (As from what you've told me from how spiking the difficulty is although you also said it probably won't matter if you cap all the way), I believe this to be partially true) If not, the other way around. It's probably really stupid but whatever.

Thanks a lot for the help!

You can't gain less than 8 EXP per kill btw, Veteran makes this minimum 12 and Paragon makes it 16.

[Quick]

A capped Paladin with Limit Breaker can tank any entire map other than the MAX DLC on any difficulty level.

Good point, I should probably test it on somebody more frail and somebody WITH a weakness. (Maybe a Dark Rider Sumia)

Anyways, I think I got my question cleared up and I shouldn't really be breaking too far off what this forum is supposed to be about. I really appreciated the help though. :)

[Othin]

You can't gain less than 8 EXP per kill btw, Veteran makes this minimum 12 and Paragon makes it 16.

And Veteran + Paragon makes the minimum 24, since they stack. Not too bad when you're one-rounding everything.

[Quick]

And Veteran + Paragon makes the minimum 24, since they stack. Not too bad when you're one-rounding everything.

So overall it doesn't change EXP all that much when you take that into account, right? (Every 6 battles you get a level up iirc.) If I replace Lyn's DLC with Seliph's DLC I can easily get Paragon and thus get the best of both worlds. I just hope that a Lon'qu fathered Jerome as a Wyvern Lord won't need Iote's Shield without Limit Breaker. (Sorry, but I guess I do have more I need to ask, I hope that's okay)

Edited January 25, 2013 by Quick

[pikajens]

Two questions: If one is to grind classes for skills, would it make more sense to class change at level 10/15 instead of 20? Or will this not contribute to anything since the game will think that because you class changed it is automatically 20 more levels. What about 1st tier classes.

Second: Which characters have no impact on the story at all? What I mean by this is which characters are introduced in the chapter they are recruited and never utter a peep again in the main story. (Except for scenes where everyone encouages the party before a boss) For example, Sumia is not an example because she gets a scene where she punches Chrom in the face. From what I've seen from shadowofchaos's playthrough, most of the shepard's are invisble save for Chrom, Lissa, Frederick and Mariabelle. (Introduced as Lissa's best friend two chapters before being kidnapped)

[Othin]

So overall it doesn't change EXP all that much when you take that into account, right? If I replace Lyn's DLC with Seliph's DLC I can easily get Paragon and thus get the best of both worlds. I just hope that a Lon'qu fathered Jerome won't need Iote's Shield without Limit Breaker. (Sorry, but I guess I do have more I need to ask, I hope that's okay)

Haha, ask away! I'm answering all these questions because I enjoy doing so.

It depends. If you're grinding an extremely high-leveled character, you're presumably having them fight LV20 promoted enemies, who count as LV40. A Hard Mode promoted character with maxed internal levels will range from LV51 to LV70, depending on how long it's been since their last Second Seal. Midway, at LV10 promoted, there's a 20-level difference, which going by the DS game formulas since they seem to fit equates to 11 Exp unboosted or 33 with both skills in place. So it's not that much more, and you'll get even less at higher levels, although you'll have faster gains at lower levels. So it's up to you whether or not that's a significant difference.

[Quick]

Haha, ask away! I'm answering all these questions because I enjoy doing so.

It depends. If you're grinding an extremely high-leveled character, you're presumably having them fight LV20 promoted enemies, who count as LV40. A Hard Mode promoted character with maxed internal levels will range from LV51 to LV70, depending on how long it's been since their last Second Seal. Midway, at LV10 promoted, there's a 20-level difference, which going by the DS game formulas since they seem to fit equates to 11 Exp unboosted or 33 with both skills in place. So it's not that much more, and you'll get even less at higher levels, although you'll have faster gains at lower levels. So it's up to you whether or not that's a significant difference.

Max I will need is probably level 65, which seems like it won't mean anything. It seems like 3 EXP isn't worth missing out on difficulty. At least I do not believe so. Now that I'm looking back at stats. A DLC like Lyn's would probably be more difficult by a reasonable margin in Lunatic than in Hard. Plus fighting against Streetpass teams might actually be fun because from what I've heard. The difficulty increases by how far you are and what difficulty the file is playing at.

[Flying Shogi]

Can skills that allow multiple hits activate said skill again(or other skill) within those times that unit attacks?

So say a unit activates Astra and gets to hit 5 times. During those 5 hits, I know that said unit can crit each time they strike but can they activate Astra again during, say, the second strike? How about a unit that also have Aether? Can that unit activate Aether during the second strike of Astra?