Mapping Voting

[Chocolate Kitty]

Requirements:

contestants have to remake either chapter 5 map or chapter 18 map from fe5 using any indoor tileset, customs allowed.

links to pictures of those chapters

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/fe/fe5/info/map05.gif

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/fe/fe5/info/map18.gif

uh

oppai

wow these maps take up a lot of space

massive derp

#1 - Kenshi

#2 - Celice

#3 - Mariokirby

#4 - Ninja Caterpie

#5 - Jubbs

#6 - Primefusion

Edited July 10, 2012 by Kitty of Time

[Klokinator]

Critique:

Map 1: The water tiles look very out of place and need better transitions with the castle tiles. Left side is spammed with a lot of green tiles. Could use maybe a pillar to break up the monotony.

Map 2: I voted for this map. Meeeega tilespam, but a really good recreation and also remake of the FE5 map, not to mention the only remake of my favorite map, chapter 5. The actual chapter design is interesting, but some of that tilespam could stand to be broken up a bit.

Map 3: Something about this whole map irked me. I also didn't like the use of pillars next to the chests, looks really out of place. What's with the room to the left that has a room inside a room inside a room? It's not like there's any point to it, unless it contained a bolting mage or something but that would be annoying to get rid of.

Map 4: Feaw map? Very tilespammy, looks like a lot of open space, and something about it reminds me more of an FE6 map than anything else.

Map 5: Accurate, if nothing else. The water tiles are sooooo ugly, no joke.

Map 6: Too mazelike for my tastes, but a pretty damn good map. The water tiles seem a little blocky but it's better than 3/4 of the other competitors xD

I'm interested to see which of these is Prime's map, if any. He didn't tell me if he was joining this comp or if he'd put in his entry yet.

Also, map 1 is the most accurate of all the maps to the original's design, I would have voted for it if not for those ugly bottom water tiles.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Adolf Klokler

[Chocolate Kitty]

kloki try not to insult people with your "critique", there's a reason names were left out

[Celice]

I see two names, neither of which have any negative insults attached Who's being insulted?

Edited July 8, 2012 by Celice

[Feaw]

@Klok; I didn't enter this round so that map isn't mine (that being said, my maps never look like this (at least I don't tile-spam the floors since I always innovate patterns in them if necessary)). And the shading style is off, and not my style.

Anyways, I voted for map 2. I don't really like any of these maps, they're all way too messy. But I felt 2 was the most original, innovative and least messy. Map 3 is also pretty clean, but it's almost a direct copy of the FE 5 map, so not much originality there.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Feawture

[Klokinator]

One of the reasons I like this way of the comp is that if I critique a map, I'm not going to have any favoritism towards the mapmaker. I'll just see them as maps.

As for the Feaw comment, I was just making a guess xP

[Celice]

Map 2: I voted for this map. Meeeega tilespam, but a really good recreation and also remake of the FE5 map, not to mention the only remake of my favorite map, chapter 5. The actual chapter design is interesting, but some of that tilespam could stand to be broken up a bit.

Something missing from the competition is enemy layouts. No map has bothered to include them, most likely out of lack of interest or lack of capability (which there is, but it's not "here, do it" accessible). But the enemy layouts serve to balance out maps--when someone makes cramped, yet varied maps, then when you add in enemy layouts, it becomes overly-cramped and busied, which detracts from the maps; yet if a map is created with enemy units in mind and they're left-out, the map can seem lacking, although that lack was precisely filled with player and enemy characters. There's a balance to strike--without a common viewpoint on the matter, some people may look at the map from a singular point of view (tilespam without regards to player or enemy units) rather than the more encompassed view, and make a half-relevant judgement.

How the maps are being voted on are a bit varied actually. Some people are caring only about the aesthetics, some the playability, some, the functionality. Of course, the above extends to all maps, not only Map 2 of this vote.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Celice

[Chocolate Kitty]

but you note map 2 because it's your own lololol

anyway, celice won, closed

jubbs y u no vote, dat means 1 round ban D:

Edited July 10, 2012 by Kitty of Time

[Celice]

I noted Map 2 because it was brought up. Had it been with another map I would've said the same thing, as it's about the map, not the author, remember?

[AstraLunaSol]

jubbs y u no vote, dat means 1 round ban D:

He's away, he left for a trip on the 6th, won't be back for a while.

[Chocolate Kitty]

He's away, he left for a trip on the 6th, won't be back for a while.

okie dokie then i just will throw him in the pit of fire when he returns :D

er not ban him, that's what I meant

[Lord Glenn]

Something missing from the competition is enemy layouts. No map has bothered to include them, most likely out of lack of interest or lack of capability (which there is, but it's not "here, do it" accessible). But the enemy layouts serve to balance out maps--when someone makes cramped, yet varied maps, then when you add in enemy layouts, it becomes overly-cramped and busied, which detracts from the maps; yet if a map is created with enemy units in mind and they're left-out, the map can seem lacking, although that lack was precisely filled with player and enemy characters. There's a balance to strike--without a common viewpoint on the matter, some people may look at the map from a singular point of view (tilespam without regards to player or enemy units) rather than the more encompassed view, and make a half-relevant judgement.

How the maps are being voted on are a bit varied actually. Some people are caring only about the aesthetics, some the playability, some, the functionality. Of course, the above extends to all maps, not only Map 2 of this vote.

Don't forget, this is also, by its title, a mapping competition not a "Make a custom chapter" competition. While adding units might balance out the maps, they also distract from the actual focus of the competition, that being the aforementioned, underlying maps. You could conceivably place enemy units over top of tiles that you feel you may have used improperly, etc. to cover that fact up. Adding units also adds a certain implication to the map; if you have a castle map with a throne, you have three or four main possibilities for the map's overall playing style and objective. If you place a boss-type unit on the throne, that severely influences how the map is received since the viewer is given extra information (most likely that it's a Defeat Boss or Seize-style map). Leaving that information out helps narrow the focus to the actual map's design, flow, etc. Not to mention, taking the time to add and position all of the required map sprites would be a PAIN, given that you'd have to manually go in to your preferred photo editing program or a ROM and add the units by hand. Honestly, I feel that that's a large inconvenience for contestants to have to tack on in addition to designing the map. (Plus, tilespam is tilespam regardless of whether there are units on the map or not. It might just become less noticeable when things are covering parts of it up; that doesn't mean that it still isn't there just because you can't temporarily see it.)

And, you'll find that varied voting criteria will show up in any competition, not just this one. There really isn't anything that can be done about it either without causing a huge mess in the process. Even if you explicitly state something like, "You MUST vote based on technical grounds!" voters may not have a good technical foundation to correctly assess the entered works or they could simply fudge up some kind of reasoning to support whatever they end up deciding. The only "way" around it would be an unbiased, impartial panel of "experts" that scored each entry based on a rubric of criteria, which takes the contest out of the peers that participated. :/

(Granted, the above is one of the main reasons that I've stopped participating in these things (beyond having other stuff to do). It severely irritates me when something is voted for because it looks the nicest/etc. when there are prevalent, visible problems with the work. But, I know it's not going to change any time soon, hence why I'd rather focus my time elsewhere than deal with the frustration.)

Edited July 10, 2012 by Lord Glenn

[Klokinator]

lol prime's map was #6. Other than the mazelikeness of the map and the water tiles, I liked it. And lol I voted Celice's map, I always seem to love his maps.

In hindsight, now his comments to me about map 2 make much more sense.