Aere Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 What if I said I changed my mind?I know I am not clear because of my role, but the fact that in order to have back and forth pms with anyone, they have to know my name, is pretty shitty for scum/third party. Also, this role is generally useless for scum. I feel like at least someone who is doubting my alignment based on speculative bullshit about my role is probably scum. You would have had a very sudden, unexplained change, then. Which would have been good to explain with your NL idea, but now is also ok. Why is doubting your alignment based on your role scummy? Maybe you could call it wrong or acting stupid, but scum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I thought Elieson was town. I was also in a position to direct him. Okay what this makes no sense. How could you direct him? And why would you place us one step closer to universal loss? I know I am not clear because of my role, but the fact that in order to have back and forth pms with anyone, they have to know my name, is pretty shitty for scum/third party. Also, this role is generally useless for scum. Er, actually it's quite a good role for scum you do realize Because you won't get scum spamming your message receival and can get people's claims while looking protown about it. Hey look at this. I'd be more inclined to say that this role is useless for town the moment it is fullclaimed because scum would just fake messages as certain players to confuse you. Hey how about those codes huh? Does it make more sense now? Or are you playing dumb like Elieson? No, it doesn't make sense at all in the first place, because everything you are saying about the code thing just doesn't make sense. If Paper wanted to send you message, I think that he would have, and the code thing isn't exactly what I would call a slip (hello, being able to prove sent messages is a good thing). I still don't get what prompted you to even push that point in the first place. ;/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 He could direct him by messaging him using his role to tell him who to inspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Oh right, blah ignore that then but I'm still curious as to why Weapons thought that Elie was town, considering what Elie had done during D1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I believe that Weapons means that he could talk to Elieson via his role to make him inspect people he wants him to. I think that's reasonable. Also when I say code I mean I wanted to set up a code for you because you claimed that you had not sent Manix that message. This means you would lead every anon message with a certain symbol or something. That way if it came down to it we would know whether you sent the message or the other guy. However you later claimed that you did in fact contact Manix. I did not mean a public encryption key like what you did in SFMM1. I don't get why people are trying to push me as trying to set up a contact with a third party when that doesn't make sense considering the timeline of events. ##Vote: Helios Now I must ask you: Why are you voting someone who has few posts overall, and the posts he does have are rather good? I feel you're being opportunistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 You would have had a very sudden, unexplained change, then. Which would have been good to explain with your NL idea, but now is also ok. Or, maybe, you did not read everything I posted. Er, actually it's quite a good role for scum you do realize Because you won't get scum spamming your message receival and can get people's claims while looking protown about it. Hey look at this. I'd be more inclined to say that this role is useless for town the moment it is fullclaimed because scum would just fake messages as certain players to confuse you. Hey how about those codes huh? You realize what you're saying in the first part is that this would be a good scum role only because it looks like a town role? And that if it was a scum role, that would be the only way it could help scum? And that your reasoning that I am not town is speculative bullshit? I can see who messages me. So hey, if scum wants to spam my receival, go right ahead. And you realize I can announce in thread who messages me and who I message? No, it doesn't make sense at all in the first place, because everything you are saying about the code thing just doesn't make sense. lol If Paper wanted to send you message, I think that he would have, and the code thing isn't exactly what I would call a slip (hello, being able to prove sent messages is a good thing). I still don't get what prompted you to even push that point in the first place. ;/ So you're going to stick to being dumb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Sorry for being offensive, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 You realize what you're saying in the first part is that this would be a good scum role only because it looks like a town role? And that if it was a scum role, that would be the only way it could help scum? No, I'm saying that it can get claims from town members without giving it to the rest of the town, hence scum gets a stupid advantage from it. It denies town information and gives scum more. The fact that it can pseudo function as a town leader is icing on the cake. I can see who messages me. So hey, if scum wants to spam my receival, go right ahead. And you realize I can announce in thread who messages me and who I message? You never said that before, so how was I meant to know that? That still doesn't change my point. So you're going to stick to being dumb? No, I'm going to stick to what I think and not back down on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Thanks for that clarification~! Why are you stressing a point that Aere does not gain town points from hammering Elieson? Have you done this before? It has to do with who was online/not online at the time. Notice how you're coming under fire because you refused to hammer Elieson? By that same, faulted logic, it's possible to argue that Aere is clear because he hammered Elieson. However, Aere had already announced his presence during the final minutes of D1. To NOT vote of Elieson at that point would be scummy, especially if Elieson's alignment had been revealed during N1 (whether by vig, oracle, or anything else that forces flips during the night). Thus, I see that hammer as a null read. As for your role, Weapons, it doesn't necessarily clear you. Guess who was a scum neighbor in the past? Now, back to what I meant. . .Weapon's response tells me that whole thing was a misunderstanding. This doesn't help with any of the people I had in mind, which means I've got far too many null reads for my liking. Aere has been answering my stuff, albeit clumsily, so that's points for him. ##Unvote Would like to hear from scorri when she's done with her homework, Shinori whenever he wakes up, Boron when she's feeling better, and Cam because a straight miller claim doesn't mean "stop scumhunting". Manix's tunneling is one of his scumtells, but not a very definite one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 No, I'm saying that it can get claims from town members without giving it to the rest of the town, hence scum gets a stupid advantage from it. It denies town information and gives scum more. The fact that it can pseudo function as a town leader is icing on the cake. Let me go through this a question at a time. Why would someone claim to me if I messaged them asking for their role? You never said that before, so how was I meant to know that? That still doesn't change my point. I didn't say you were meant to know that. And which point? No, I'm going to stick to what I think and not back down on it. ##Unvote While you are missing my points, you are not acting like scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Let me go through this a question at a time. Why would someone claim to me if I messaged them asking for their role? They wouldn't? At least I wouldn't. I didn't say you were meant to know that. And which point? about possible scum!courier stuff being that you can get messages unimpeded, blah Meh, I think I'm done with this discussion, I've seen what I needed to signs point to okayish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 It has to do with who was online/not online at the time. Notice how you're coming under fire because you refused to hammer Elieson? By that same, faulted logic, it's possible to argue that Aere is clear because he hammered Elieson. However, Aere had already announced his presence during the final minutes of D1. To NOT vote of Elieson at that point would be scummy, especially if Elieson's alignment had been revealed during N1 (whether by vig, oracle, or anything else that forces flips during the night). Thus, I see that hammer as a null read. Okay, from a different angle. How many people do you think would think Aere is town because he hammered Elieson? As for your role, Weapons, it doesn't necessarily clear you. Guess who was a scum neighbor in the past? I know it doesn't necessarily clear me. However, if everyone accepts that I am town, then we have a town leader situation, which is very helpful to town. And scum neighbor/scum mason/whatever is just bastard modding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 They wouldn't? At least I wouldn't. So how is this helpful for scum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 So how is this helpful for scum? hmmm okay I think more what I was trying to say was about if you just had two people claim to you each day kinda thing but that's just one situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Murky game is murky. ##Vote: scorri for generally not being involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Okay, from a different angle. How many people do you think would think Aere is town because he hammered Elieson? Given what I've seen in past games, too many. Logic these days in regards to action is a bit shaky. Reference Anonymafia for examples of this (Sundown, to be precise). . .or Manix's logic regarding scum in Xenoblade (sorry dude, but Paper and I had a good facepalm regarding that). I know it doesn't necessarily clear me. However, if everyone accepts that I am town, then we have a town leader situation, which is very helpful to town.And scum neighbor/scum mason/whatever is just bastard modding. The most you're getting out of me in regards to your alignment is that I don't think you're a good lynch target right now. I have reason to believe that there's some bastardly elements in this game. Ideally, if we have some sort of alignment cop, he/she should message you that you're clear, and you can direct him/her using your courier. Thus, I will refrain from sending you anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Given what I've seen in past games, too many. Logic these days in regards to action is a bit shaky. Reference Anonymafia for examples of this (Sundown, to be precise). . .or Manix's logic regarding scum in Xenoblade (sorry dude, but Paper and I had a good facepalm regarding that). It's k, I was horrible in Xenoblade. Also, I subbed in as Sundown, and I don't even know what town was thinking when they didn't lynch me D2. And also on this note: I am not convinced that Aere is clear myself, because for all we know he could be trying to get towncred through hammering. Who knows. I still don't really like Aere's D1 play that much, as well. I think I need to reread (although right now that's effort which I really can't be bothered doing(lazy day is lazy)) to see if anything really has changed regarding my current reads. (For reference, I thought Aere, Marth and Shinori were scummish D1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 hmmm okay I think more what I was trying to say was about if you just had two people claim to you each day kinda thing but that's just one situation This would necessitate town seeing me as clear or close enough. How could scum accomplish this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 This would necessitate town seeing me as clear or close enough. How could scum accomplish this? Through actions in thread, perhaps? Which I think is the idea of scum, last I checked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Through actions in thread, perhaps? Which I think is the idea of scum, last I checked? Right, and this has nothing to do with how the role helps scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 So back to the original point, how does scum courier benefit scum aside from through acting exactly like a town courier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 So back to the original point, how does scum courier benefit scum aside from through acting exactly like a town courier? point made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 So back to the original point, how does scum courier benefit scum aside from through acting exactly like a town courier? Same way as scum (insert normally town role here) benefits scum. It's a clear by role, which is something I don't want to assume yet. I have reason to believe I drew a scum action last night. I'd rather not have a repeat of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 @Paperblade: I can't believe I have to explain this but I guess I'll humor you. I originally found Marth scummy after his first couple posts, but his last (content) post made him look better in my eyes. However he hasn't been very active in discussion overall and he normally would have posted more. I'm wondering if he's banking on that Elie vote with hopes that the little that he has contributed has convinced everyone that he's town. He's been forgettable and I'd rather not have scum blending in and getting away with it. The vote was meant to prod him into contributing more, and if he's scum possibly slipping up. Hope that quenches your thirst, because your vote on me feels awfully forced. Aere is still beeping on my scumdar, and I'm contemplating whether he bussed Elieson to look town with the hammer or was just town hammering fairly obvscum. @Weapons: I was technically a scum neighborizer last game (EO Mafia), so scum neighborizer is definitely a possiblity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 That is a terrible reason to vote someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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