The Joker Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 I'm having problems... because when I try to address the jaggedness, it turns out pillowy. but when I address that too, it goes back to looking jagged. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenh Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 There's literal jagginess in there as well The edit might've changed the curve though :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 There's literal jagginess in there as well The edit might've changed the curve though :/ that's also one of my concerns. :/ I'm still unsure how to approach this but I'm trying different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) well, I've made some adjustments and I think I'll keep some of the jaggedness since they're just minor. I tried to improve on the neck shading as well. I'll probably do some edits to some of my other works after working on this to address some lesser concerns before moving on my new projects. edit: drowsy spellings Edited February 9, 2013 by Acha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) It's far from perfect, but I've tried to fix up some of the issues with the face I saw with yours. Eyebrows The eyebrows were far, far too jagged. The way you had drawn them made them look like lines; eyebrows are not lines (especially for FE men). They are usually quite thick and it is perfectly acceptable to use the outline colour in them; in fact, I'd encourage it for men. You can ease up on women's eyebrows and use primarily the 3rd/4th outline colour on them, but for men, ideally yo want them to be nice and dark, which allows them to also be very expressive. The frown you're shooting for is not achieved by simply curving the eyebrows inward; you need to make the area around the middle of the brow darker. Eyes There was an excess line of shading near the bottom of his eyelids, which made them look bigger than they actually were. There was also some random brown pixel off to the side that I suppose was supposed to seal his eyes off? Like I'd said before, you don't need that. Nose When I said the nose looked flat, I mean that he seemed to lack a bridge, and it was simply too wide. In general, when we make FE noses, we want to show the very middle of a nose (which is the main line). The bottom, underside of the nose is general shaded in. I also lifted it up a bit because it wasn't high enough. Mouth The mouth was completely flat across, but his eyes are slanted towards the viewer. They really should be matching up. Of course, moving one side of the mouth down is too drastic a change, so by adding some shading to the lower side of the near side of the mouth and some shading on the upper side of the far side of the mouth, you can achieve an effect as if his mouth is leaning the way, but it really isn't. Wil's FE7 mug does something very similar. Along with the nose, it was raised up. The lower lip shadow was brought down a pixel as his mouth looked too small. The space is usually 2 px, anyhow. Edited February 9, 2013 by Agro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 It's far from perfect, but I've tried to fix up some of the issues with the face I saw with yours. Eyebrows The eyebrows were far, far too jagged. The way you had drawn them made them look like lines; eyebrows are not lines (especially for FE men). They are usually quite thick and it is perfectly acceptable to use the outline colour in them; in fact, I'd encourage it for men. You can ease up on women's eyebrows and use primarily the 3rd/4th outline colour on them, but for men, ideally yo want them to be nice and dark, which allows them to also be very expressive. The frown you're shooting for is not achieved by simply curving the eyebrows inward; you need to make the area around the middle of the brow darker. Eyes There was an excess line of shading near the bottom of his eyelids, which made them look bigger than they actually were. There was also some random brown pixel off to the side that I suppose was supposed to seal his eyes off? Like I'd said before, you don't need that. Nose When I said the nose looked flat, I mean that he seemed to lack a bridge, and it was simply too wide. In general, when we make FE noses, we want to show the very middle of a nose (which is the main line). The bottom, underside of the nose is general shaded in. I also lifted it up a bit because it wasn't high enough. Mouth The mouth was completely flat across, but his eyes are slanted towards the viewer. They really should be matching up. Of course, moving one side of the mouth down is too drastic a change, so by adding some shading to the lower side of the near side of the mouth and some shading on the upper side of the far side of the mouth, you can achieve an effect as if his mouth is leaning the way, but it really isn't. Wil's FE7 mug does something very similar. Along with the nose, it was raised up. The lower lip shadow was brought down a pixel as his mouth looked too small. The space is usually 2 px, anyhow. I'll try to use it and what you said here as reference for my next edits. thanks a dozen. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Well i tried some alternate changes with this taking into consideration what Agro said. I also tried to keep it similar to the style of my other works and his design. It was like mixing and matching, honestly. I also made some minor changes to Vermillion with his eyebrows and eyes(just a bit). I also tried reworking Reiji's hair. Still not done, but it's a start. Edited February 10, 2013 by Acha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Vermillion's mouth and nose need to be lifted up a pixel, and his lower lip shadow moved down a pixel so that there's two pixels in between. I think his far eyebrow comes toward the centre of his face just a little too much, causing his face to look slightly misaligned. The top of his hair look pretty cool, but there's just a bit on the right side that needs a little more 2nd shade to ease the transition. There's also a really awkward-looking 45 degree line on his cloak thingo where his near shoulder is that needs to be smoothed out a little. Is his undershirt skin-tight, or sort of like a turtleneck? If it's the former, then it needs to be shaded as though his neck is here too. If it's the latter, it needs to be made a little puffier. I'm confused as to what's going on with his armour, too. Is his collar metal, or is it fabric? The near side is shaded like it's armour (it looks shiny) but the far side slants away, like it's fabric. Will comment on Reiji in a bit. Edited February 10, 2013 by Agro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 I did some adjustments that I hope would make this better. Like I mentioned in the last post, I reworked the hair. I also made some changes to this according to what Agro said. I didn't get the thing with the eyebrows though. as for the collar, I was aiming for a metallic one. I might've missed some other things along the way. I'm gonna make changes to my old works too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AthenaWyrm Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Everything is too flat and sharp. In general, trim is very unpolished, every line is really jagged, all of your characters have eyebrows stuck on top of their eyelids, their noses are low and misshaped, hair is shaded way too conservatively, shading seems to be done without clear understanding of what's going on, and everyone looks flat and devoid of personality. I can make a reference image from your base with your permission if you want a clearer idea of what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Everything is too flat and sharp. In general, trim is very unpolished, every line is really jagged, all of your characters have eyebrows stuck on top of their eyelids, their noses are low and misshaped, hair is shaded way too conservatively, shading seems to be done without clear understanding of what's going on, and everyone looks flat and devoid of personality. I can make a reference image from your base with your permission if you want a clearer idea of what I mean. go ahead. I'd appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AthenaWyrm Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Compare and contrast the two in terms of things like shading/anti-aliasing density and overall composition. For example, I raised the nose and mouth by one pixel and heavily added more shading around all the features. The trim on the left shoulder pad should grant an idea of how to make it not-so-jagged. I also gave him an arm/hand and a smirk to add more personality to his otherwise stiff gesture. Usually your characters display a frown or a blank stare and it makes them seem empty and lifeless. Do try to avoid that. Mix it up and add variety to their facial expressions. Overall a very rough edit, but I think it gets the point across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 I see. Though, isn't the hair shading a bit heavy this time around? I was often told to lessen the use of the hair's darkest shade. Still, I'll use this for reference for my next edits. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AthenaWyrm Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 The amount of third shade you use is largely preference-based, but in your case it's still too little. My shading is just a reference, you are free to follow it loosely or strictly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alabaster Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I guess it's Because of the palette in this one Sprite. The 2nd shade is similar to the the 1st, so in this case you can either mess around with the palette or exaggerate with the 3rd shade. But don't take what i say for granted, i can't see spriteworks properly from my tablet D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Err... Tried my best to improve this... :/ How do I make him look a bit older? o_o Also with this. x.x I didn't change the facial expression much since it's more in character though I did try to make him look less grumpy. I'm still a bit confused about the neck shading but I'll try some things. Edited February 25, 2013 by Acha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingSolaris Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 How much older do you want him to look? Also, his mouth's angle doesn't match up with the rest of his face. Not much to say for the second one, looks good. xD Only thing I might have to say about him (IMO) is that too much of the third shade is used in his hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Only thing I might have to say about him (IMO) is that too much of the third shade is used in his hair. Really? Because with that kind of red the third shade is incredibly helpful in shaping. Which he did just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 How much older do you want him to look? Also, his mouth's angle doesn't match up with the rest of his face. Not much to say for the second one, looks good. xD Only thing I might have to say about him (IMO) is that too much of the third shade is used in his hair. I intended that because I think it gives off the look that he's smiling. o_o and I'm talking bout making him look like in his mid 20's or early 30's... :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingSolaris Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Hmm...maybe give him a bigger build? And make his cheekbones a bit more visible, maybe. Really? Because with that kind of red the third shade is incredibly helpful in shaping. Which he did just fine. I see. I'm just not used to spriting red hair, soo...not a big fan of that color, anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 If you want him to look older, give him more defined cheekbones (his face looks really fat at the moment), smaller eyes, and a more squared chin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) still a little unsure about this but at least he doesn't look like a kid anymore. :/ I also started progressing on my other works like: still having difficulty with the shading on this... especially with the hair. Still the eyes are a big prob for me. x.x I might work more on this one next after Reiji I've also started working slowly with my other characters who were on hold. cavalier 1 tried working with a different head angle. cavalier 2. The hair design isn't finished yet. I have a lot of designs on hand cause I want to work on them while they're still fresh. I don't want to end up forgetting how to make them. x.x I try to sprite them as soon as I get an idea for them or at least try to draw them with paper and pencil. I haven't touched that Nobunaga sprite yet though. Also, I might be posting Vermillion and Aidan as finished works soon. yey. :) Edited March 1, 2013 by Acha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astelaine Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 (edited) Hi Acha! I've always liked your Reiji mug, but something about the face is definitely off. I mucked around with it to try to give you some suggestions for improvement - I hope you don't mind! Your version on the left, my fixes on the right. It's not perfect, but I think it corrects his facial arrangement a bit. Here's what I recommend: - Move the left eye (opv) and the nose to the right by 1 px - Shorten the nose by 1 px and adjust the shape of the tip. Reduce some of the shading on the bottom of the nose too. - Raise the mouth by 1 px and add a short row of pixels to the top-left of it to make its shape match the angle of the face (see ref) - Adjust the angle of the bottom lip line to match the mouth - Remove the 2nd skin shade under the eyes - Add more 2nd skin tone at his jaw/cheek for better cheek definition - Make the curve of the lower jaw convex instead of concave, so he doesn't look bony/starved - General shading cleanup where the jawline meets the neck, and where the jawline meets the ear - Add more hair to the top-left (opv) of his head, and pull those topmost strands of hair out by a few px, so his head doesn't look malformed/caved-in. - Shorten the neck by 1 px You also really need to pay attention to jaggy lines/antialiasing: Check out the hair on the left, where the darkest shade near the ear meets the lightest shade. You are antialiasing with the second (medium) shade too much. It should look like the example on the right instead. I know AA'ing is tough to explain - so just make sure you observe the original FE7 mugs closely, to see how they are shaded/AA'ed. Keep one next to your sprite while you work, if you aren't already! The goal is to make your sprite look as smooth as possible, is if it weren't made out of tiny square dots. That's it for now - good luck with your sprites! Looking forward to seeing those finished ones. :) Edited March 2, 2013 by Astelaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 thanks, I'll see what I can do. :) I update the 1st post from time to time so if you guys notice anything off from my finished works, I'll appreciate it if you give me a heads up. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) derp, something happened to this post. But I've uploaded a few things by mistake. minor and barely noticeable changes. I was supposed to upload this I wasn't quite sure if the same rules for eyes and eyebrows applied to females. and this Edited March 16, 2013 by Acha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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