The Lunatic Club

[Rydia]

I started the game in lunatic + yesterday and I'm completely stuck on chapter 3. Fred got the worst stat growth possible and I keep losing Kellam on the second turn... any suggestion?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Use Avatar, not Fred. You may have to restart.

To save Kellam, have Chrom walk out and recruit him, then pair up with him and have Kellam walk both of them back to safety. Then you can have him do something on turn 2 that doesn't involve getting him killed (I usually have him be a support).

[Rydia]

Aw, darn...

I will give it another run, then, because I was used to have Fred taking care of the very first three chapters in lunatic and he always did a great work. Point is: my Unit is a magician and she wouldn't resist a single blow, I can't send her in the middle of the chaos in chapter 3...

About Kellam... I generally talk to him, I move him back with Chrom, I pass Javelin to Fred and keep him save. Kinda.

About Avatar... what's the best way to build her for the worst chapter (In my opinion) In lunatic? (And I guess even the worst one in lunatic +)

[Czar_Yoshi]

-Skl is a good flaw if you only care about ingame, -Lck is plausible if you're going for postgame (but very annoying). Spd is the most powerful asset, but Def is far easier to use with brute force and almost as good. Just feed her as many kills as possible (optimally all but two out of the first three chapters) and let Veteran do the rest.

[Rydia]

Thank you for the suggestion... I will start a second game file, I didn't care too much about my difficult one anymore, and see how it goes.

[Interceptor]

Thank you for the suggestion... I will start a second game file, I didn't care too much about my difficult one anymore, and see how it goes.

Check the link in my sig. I came up with a pretty good first-Turn strategy for L+ Chapter 3, which has modest stat requirements and can be tweaked for your needs. Basically you want to crush the left-hand side as quickly as possible, fight the right-hand side in a choke, and then wall/kite the rest to death.

[Rin]

Hello, I just started a L+ several days ago with a +SKL -LCK FeMu (tried this with my L run and quite like how Luna or Sol pops up almost every turn). I just managed to get past chapter 2 with Freddy being the main attacker but I'm totally stuck since those annoying Pavise+ and Counter appeared in chapter 3. My avatar is still level one, as well as Miriel. Chrom / Lissa | Virion | Stahl | Sully level two, Vaike 3 and Fred level 5 (16 | 3 | 14 | 12 | 9 | 15 | 5). I still have two Elixir, 3 Kris' Confect and several Potions.

After a few tries Fred and Kellam support was finally able to clear the left side without any lost Unit, but I was doomed immediately as the right soldiers were close by. I don't know if I stand any chance with Fred soloing?

I'm sorry for the noob question, but which one is the more reliable method to at least get past chapter four in L+, relying on Fred or desperately trying to RNG the Avatar?

The latter seems quite luxury for me, considering the asset I've chosen. I gave it a go, but clearing the prologue took quite an effort already, and I only get ~2-3 stats when leveling up, without defense, even when I hit 7.

Also, should the FeMU marry Chrom for two Morgans in L+, or there's an even better option, for this mode only?

Thank you in advance!

Edited September 22, 2014 by Rin

[Thor Odinson]

If you're grinding and don't want to restart at this point just power through with Fred and then do the outrealm thing afterwards. For power-throughing main game in no grind Avatar x Chrom for Lucina and Morgan is a very powerful combo and certainly the easiest, especially with veteran being a thing, but if you're grinding you can do pretty much whatever you like.

[Rin]

I'm stuck actually, is a level 5 Freddy really able to get through the chapter 3 and 4? :( The spearmens and archer on right side kills Fred with Kellam support in a turn so often, and even when I was able to go through them (just once or twice when I was extremely lucky) the right side soldiers were just a few blocks away. I have Lissa paired with Sumia and Chrom with Stahl to escape to no avail :(

[Interceptor]

I don't know if I stand any chance with Fred soloing?

Highly unlikely. Clearing the left-hand side is difficult if Robin can't participate, and even if you take care of the bottom floor there's still a HammerGuy up top waiting to destroy Frederick and/or Kellam.

I'm sorry for the noob question, but which one is the more reliable method to at least get past chapter four in L+, relying on Fred or desperately trying to RNG the Avatar?

Abusing the RNG on Robin is easier. Hitting the SPD threshold that I posted is the best way, but you can do without it if you don't mind resetting a lot on Chapter 2 as you try to find a combination that works. Prologue is pretty simple if you have a good strategy.

Also, should the FeMU marry Chrom for two Morgans in L+, or there's an even better option, for this mode only?

Thank you in advance!

I like marrying Robin to Chrom, personally. Lucina and Morgan are both badasses in L+, because of Veteran.

[Rin]

Thank you for your answers, I'll try to RNG the Avatar by following your guide. Please help me kindly if I somehow screw things up.

[Interceptor]

Good luck! I recommend making it a point to get at least +3 SPD and level 7 on Robin by the time that you finish Prologue. That means you only need to get +2 SPD on Chapter 1 to hit the threshold. Also be sure that you get enough support points with Chrom in both chapters, otherwise the C support won't happen.

[Rydia]

Thanks, Interceptor, with your support I managed to reach chapter 4 *phew* So far it's going smoothly but- maaan, so many resets, enemies keep popping up with the greatest sets they can ask for. X°D

[isetrh]

I made some changes to the final team I want, so I'm going to start over my L+ optimization run once I get to 50k Renown. The fact that I'm going for optimization puts some limitations on my run. My Avatar will be female, +Skill -Def. Any S-ranks/kids I use must match these pairings:

FeMU x Yarne

Sumia x Chrom

Lissa x Henry

Sully x Gaius

Miriel x Ricken

Maribelle x Libra

Panne x Gregor

Cordelia x Lon'qu

Nowi x Kellam

Tharja x Donnel

Olivia x Stahl

Cherche x Vaike

I am willing to support grind, so kids like Yarne and Laurent who have only one good parent are fair game. I might level grind a little too, perhaps with an arbitrary cap like 5 levels asap per character.

Donnel!Noire seems interesting for ingame. Both of her parents have bow classes, and Aptitude is fun.

Any advice on who I should use?

Edited September 24, 2014 by isetrh

[Kirie]

I'm actually working on planning for my first Lunatic run currently. I'm rather enjoying the planning aspect of things, since looking at pairings and skills and stuff is rather fun. I can only hope actually playing through the mode will be just as fun, but I have high hopes after seeing how easy I found Hard mode to be.

I did have a question on pairings that I posted up in the pairings thread, so if anyone would be obliged to take a look at that specifically from a Lunatic standpoint, that would be awesome.

The other thing I'm currently fretting about is FeMU asset/flaws. It probably doesn't matter nearly as much as my brain is trying to convince me is does, but I'm thinking of going for -Lck and either +Mag (since I'm aiming for more of a magic build with her, and it also gives a bonus to speed, which is nice) or +Skl (for extra Sol/Luna triggers and a bit of added defense padding for the early game), though I think I'm leaning towards the former. Brain will probably change its mind in about 15 minutes. -Skl and -Def are also possible options.... see, I told you! Anyway, If someone with experience would like to weigh in on this to give advice, and/or to even just tell me to shut up and that it's not all that important, than please do.

But mostly I'm posting here because I'm super excited to do this Luna run, even if it'll probably be some time before I get to it because I'm an obsessive planner, and I need to make sure I copy down all my final choices to my notes notebook, and I still need to get Priam and beat Endgame on my current HM run anyway.

[Roflolxp54]

+Def/-Lck is a very popular choice for Robin, especially if planning a mostly solo run of Lunatic mode (Nosferatanking is a commonly used strategy in Lunatic mode).

If you have DLC and are willing to use it, Asset and Flaw wouldn't matter as much outside of stat cap modifiers (which is what you seem to be planning on anyways) since you can use Frederick to get through Prologue to Chapter 4. (Just remember that Frederick isn't as useful as the lead unit for earlygame Lunatic+).

Asset and Flaw only really matters in regards to stat growths and base (starting) stats if you plan on using Robin often in the earlygame -- in regards to Defense, you don't get any more base Defense if you were to choose Skill asset than if you were to choose Magic asset. If you really want more base Defense, just go with Defense asset.

HP, Def and Spd flaw are the flaws you'd want to avoid using (unless you really want to ramp up the difficulty, want to test your patience with RNG manipulation or know that you can protect Robin while Frederick beats up mooks) as you'd make Robin much more liable to be ORKO'd by earlygame enemies.

I used +Def/-Lck in Lunatic Classic and +HP/-Lck in Lunatic+ Classic.

[Professor Vasuda]

I enjoyed the first 5 or so chapters on lunatic.

I liked the idea of a super hard FE, but all it came down to in the end is breaking the game, with some bogus RNG mixed in. Lunatic+ is all artificial difficulty, with crit and vantage+ boss that simply auto kills you before you attack if it feels like it.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Professor Vasuda

[Czar_Yoshi]

Donnel!Noire seems interesting for ingame. Both of her parents have bow classes, and Aptitude is fun.

Any advice on who I should use?

Donnel is seriously not fun to use on Lunatic+. Really. You can't even use the vanilla Lunatic strats of boxing archers and breaking weapons to get him going thanks to Pass and Luna+. It's possible to make him good, but he'll still be a net drag on your run.

Lunatic+ is all artificial difficulty, with crit and vantage+ boss that simply auto kills you before you attack if it feels like it.

That's not artificial difficulty, you're just not taking measures to mitigate risk. Have Avatar fight him on EP only at range with Thunder and a Fred support, and Chrom and Lissa standing next to him. The 3 support levels they provide will give Avatar +10 Dge, reducing the Boss's Crit to 0.

[Professor Vasuda]

That's the same thing though, forcing yourself to abuse and manupulate the game's limited ai to hit him. That's not strategy or satisfying. It turned into work I pushed myself into doing.

Just the fact that the fairly high potential for Fred to get crit early on even from a normal dude where there is nearly no room for error like this is difficulty done wrong is all.

[XeKr]

Abusing AI and managing various outcomes from RNG is arguably the core of FE (gameplay). >_>

Or clarify what “real” strategy is.

[Professor Vasuda]

It's the limited options that destroy it. Bad level up? You're pretty much screwed. Miss an attack? There is no available backup plan to it, since everything is so airtight early game. Late game is all about abusing rediculous skills to where you clear everything with one pair.

I suppose some may enjoy that, and this is a pointless argument, but I can't be the only one that felt like it ruined what I enjoy most about FE.

[Czar_Yoshi]

So you're saying it's more strategic to zerg rush him than it is to build a defensive formation that resists his strengths, and the game should support strategy by lowering his stats so zerg rushes work?

I think you may be completely missing the point of Lunatic+. It's specifically designed to shut down all the various game-breaking tactics that were present in other FEs and force you to think on the fly, adapt to semi-random situations and use unconventional tactics such as unequipping yourself and fighting in formations. Of course there's a danger that you'll have to restart- it's present in all FEs that don't have fixed levels. This is not new to Lunatic+. Awakening also loads much faster and has faster gameplay than other FEs so restarting isn't nearly as much of a headache.

Using just one pair for lategame chapters in Lunatic+ isn't that great, by the way. At least three combat pairs helps a lot, and isn't hard to get thanks to children. You have a lot of leeway from Cht.7 to Cht.11 and then some in the child paralogues to train up more units, and if you give that exp all to Avatar you're setting up for having very limited options lategame.

[XeKr]

It's the limited options that destroy it. Bad level up? You're pretty much screwed. Miss an attack? There is no available backup plan to it, since everything is so airtight early game. Late game is all about abusing rediculous skills to where you clear everything with one pair.

I suppose some may enjoy that, and this is a pointless argument, but I can't be the only one that felt like it ruined what I enjoy most about FE.

Let me know in what FE that you can’t get screwed by RNG. The best we as players can do is mitigate its effects (or otherwise manipulate it).

I’d argue that a lenient strategy requirement is simply not challenging (other subjective matters aside, like fun). If you're playing the most extreme of difficulties, expect more strict gameplay considerations.

Edited September 24, 2014 by XeKr

[Professor Vasuda]

Its not that I don't adapt to randomness, its that it feels to punishing like when I need to kill someone now, if I miss, I set a backup plan. Lunatic+ feels like I am not given enough resources to set that backup plan most of the times.

Plus I don't like the idea of resetting by principle. It takes away the weight of my decisions, and this isn't a problem in other difficulties, because its still possible regardless if you lose Fred.

Might as well just agree to disagree. Maybe I'm just bad, but i have certainly seen difficulty handled better IMO.

There is a difference between difficulty being too restricting and punishing where it outweighs the reward aspect.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Professor Vasuda

[isetrh]

Donnel is seriously not fun to use on Lunatic+. Really. You can't even use the vanilla Lunatic strats of boxing archers and breaking weapons to get him going thanks to Pass and Luna+. It's possible to make him good, but he'll still be a net drag on your run.

Huh, okay then. I guess I'll have to support grind to get any good kids then. I would already have to support grind to make sure Chrom marries Sumia, not Robin. Edited September 25, 2014 by isetrh