The Lunatic Club

[JayxGames]

Hi.

I'm doing Lunatic mode and I'm having difficulty on Chapter 3. (It's my first run of it), currently, the problem is that one of the Fighter's have a Hammer that will knock out Frederick, I've been trying to get pass this by using my MU and Virion to knock him out, but it doesn't kill it and then one of them die. Any ideas?

My MU:
Asset: Defense

Flaw: Luck

Thanks

[Czar_Yoshi]

Avatar level and stats? There's a pretty big difference between an unraised +Def Avatar and a raised one.

Get Miriel and Kellam in on the ranged pigpiling as well, and have Fred deliver the final blow at 1-range with the Silver Lance for more power if you need it. But if your Avatar is really getting OHKOed with +Def, you're pretty much going to have to grind after Cht.4. Fred can't carry the whole game by himself, there will be plenty of Hammers and Mages coming up later.

[Eselred]

So I just beat Lunatic (battle results are rolling now), and all I will say is this:

I'm glad I beat it and experienced Lunatic, and I learned many new things about Awakening during the run (thanks to all who helped with assistance and ideas), but never again.

The only result that matters:

Robin - Battles: 662 Victories: 573

Chrom almost got 20/20 Great Lord through Dual Strikes alone.

I think I need a break from Awakening after Lunatic...

[Draco]

oh yeah, also, I'm on Chapter 8 now

I do have a question, though: what's this "water trick" I keep hearing about?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Enemies in the Prologue can't swim. Chrom and Robin can. Solution: hide on the water and kill everything at range with Thunder for insane amounts of exp (reaching Lv.8 and C Tomes is possible with good RNG).

[JayxGames]

Avatar level and stats? There's a pretty big difference between an unraised +Def Avatar and a raised one.

Get Miriel and Kellam in on the ranged pigpiling as well, and have Fred deliver the final blow at 1-range with the Silver Lance for more power if you need it. But if your Avatar is really getting OHKOed with +Def, you're pretty much going to have to grind after Cht.4. Fred can't carry the whole game by himself, there will be plenty of Hammers and Mages coming up later.

True, I have a picture of my Avatar's stats right here (FeMU):

I followed a tutorial off IGN site for the first two chapters since I honestly was lost when trying to do without help, and by Chapter 2, his Silver lance broke. Usually I pair up Frederick and Kellam together asap so Fred can get a Defense boost.

For Reference - Fred's Stats as of Chapter 3:

[Czar_Yoshi]

I'm not familiar with that tutorial but judging by your Avatar's level it's not doing its job. She should be ~Lv.15 by now.

She at least looks like she's got the stats to take a single Hammer hit at full HP, though (he's got 27 Atk, you've got 20 HP and 8 Def), even with no pairup- give Fred Vaike for the kill. Alternately, just give her the kill if you can manage it- she might be unsalvageable without DLC, but there's no harm in trying. Getting her to D Swords so she can use a Wyrmslayer would help a lot.

Chrom can probably take a hit too, and maybe hit back harder than she can.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[eclipse]

True, I have a picture of my Avatar's stats right here (FeMU):

I followed a tutorial off IGN site for the first two chapters since I honestly was lost when trying to do without help, and by Chapter 2, his Silver lance broke. Usually I pair up Frederick and Kellam together asap so Fred can get a Defense boost.

For Reference - Fred's Stats as of Chapter 3:

EEEP.

She needs, a lot more levels, and fast. I'd feed her as many kills as possible on this map. She can either do enhanced chip damage with Miriel in back, attempt to tank a few things with Kellam/Frederick, or go for offense with Chrom. I'd keep her paired up at all times - Veteran is a must at this point.

If necessary, surround one of the archers, and have get kills that way.

Edited March 17, 2015 by eclipse
I broke the spoiler tags.

[Topazd]

That IGN guide is the worst thing ever. They kept blabbing about how training anyone but Fred was impossible, proceeded to rely on Hammers missing him (w/ Silver lance equipped IIRC) and didn't even attempt to allocate exp to others. My favorite line was 'After chapter 4 you can grind with DLC and then Lunatic becomes a lot more fun and strategy-based.'

Here. The 'guide' is for Prologue-C2. True comedy gold.

I'd honestly advise restarting the run. A +Def MU can cheese the early chapters with so little effort that trying to pick him up now (w/o grinding) seems like a lost cause in my eyes.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Topazd

[Czar_Yoshi]

I've seen enough bad guides out there to not get mad over silly things like them not knowing what Luna does, using the simplified version of the bottom screen that doesn't show enemy stats (seriously, they don't know how to play the game), or relying on getting weapons from Event Tiles (and not telling people it matters until two chapters after the fact), let alone thinking that Fred spam is a good idea. The game has been out for less than a month at the point they made that, and it's their jobs to play tons and tons of different games. They don't have time to master everything, and Awakening doesn't have any good guides anyway so it was a niche that needs to be filled (even though they failed miserably). And it's far from the worst (factually) I've seen- that title goes to Endgame's guide on GameFAQs.

But this... This isn't a guide. It's a commercial for the DLC, and it's not even complete. They spend more time talking about how you should buy the DLC than strategy, and they don't even give you enough of that- with good RNG- to get that far, since your Silver Lance is broken and you've still got Cht.3 to contend with. That's just unprofessional.

[Irysa]

So I'm wondering, on Lunatic+ is there any real significant benefit to actually focusing on training more combat pairs besides FAvatarxChrom? Or is it something of a case where it's just more strategically interesting and diverse to have more options? I'm thinking about trying to use a couple of units I didn't focus on my last Lunatic run in Lunatic+ but being entirely honest, I'm not the biggest fan of L+ as a mode so I'm more concerned with just trying to finish it without much hassle so it's done with (bragging rights). I ask because I'm sitting hitting my head against a wall in Chapter 2 (it's getting there, I won't look at Interceptor's guide until I've done it myself first), and whilst the idea of combat training some combination (probably only 1 male and 1 female) of Stahl, Sully, Miriel, or maybe even Virion is intruiging, it does just seem so much harder to do. Well, Miriel and Virion less so, but I'm sure any L+ vet knows what I mean.

tl;dr convince me not to just Avatar solo nostank all of Luna+.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Irysa

[omega zero]

There's little excuse for a bad guide, but I am not surprised that it ended up that way. On hard mode, the game does not sufficiently arm a new/casual player with the strategic knowledge to tackle Lunatic. Stuff like the versatility of dancing/rescue staffing, positioning(water trick, turtling, diversions) team building(Fred, team size), dealing with dangerous skills, etc.

Lunatic "tells" a player that they aren't good enough without pointing out how the player can improve. The game gives you tools, and descriptions as to what the tools do, but I don't think that lower difficulties give the player the right kind of experience with using those tools to really drive the point home.

That's why I think an additional difficulty between Hard and Lunatic wouldn't necessarily reduce complaints. Ramping up the numbers won't always cause a player to grasp the abstract concepts I mentioned.

Lunatic isn't even the 'master' difficulty, that's Lunatic+.

[Ownagepuffs]

So I'm wondering, on Lunatic+ is there any real significant benefit to actually focusing on training more combat pairs besides FAvatarxChrom? Or is it something of a case where it's just more strategically interesting and diverse to have more options? I'm thinking about trying to use a couple of units I didn't focus on my last Lunatic run in Lunatic+ but being entirely honest, I'm not the biggest fan of L+ as a mode so I'm more concerned with just trying to finish it without much hassle so it's done with (bragging rights). I ask because I'm sitting hitting my head against a wall in Chapter 2 (it's getting there, I won't look at Interceptor's guide until I've done it myself first), and whilst the idea of combat training some combination (probably only 1 male and 1 female) of Stahl, Sully, Miriel, or maybe even Virion is intruiging, it does just seem so much harder to do. Well, Miriel and Virion less so, but I'm sure any L+ vet knows what I mean.

tl;dr convince me not to just Avatar solo nostank all of Luna+.

Getting Laurent is cool. I don't think you got him on your last run and he worth it in L+.

[Anelciel]

Hello, I'm trying to beat Lunatic(classic) to unlock Lunatic+.

Since I don't really care about my units in the Lunatic run (just wanna get through the story as fast as possible) the only "usable" Charakters are Chrom with his wife Sully, Lucina, MU(male) and Cherche, which are in training right now, while everyone else is badly underleveld.

Now I'm stuck at chapter 23 and just wanted to ask, if there is a good strategie to beat it. In Lunatic(casual) that wasn't a problem, but now I just can't beat it. I tried out a lot. Using Spotpass-Units for keeping the enemys away from Chrom, recruiting units from my last runs on hard (which I thought are strong, but in Lunatic they're useless), etc.

The units I use are already at the point, where they get 16 exp per kill, with no matter of the enemys level. (They all have Paragon of course.) So, I think you can guess that "just leveling up" won't do a big change to these units. Has anyone an advice how I could make it through Chapter 23?

Edited March 17, 2015 by Anelciel

[Gradivus.]

MU -> Sorc -> Nosferatu mass buy

since apparently you don't mind using DLC, you can grind MU to Level 10 if he can't second seal right now / isn't sorcerer yet.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Anelciel]

So you think I can solo the map with just MU?

I already planned to make him a Sorcerer with Aversa's Night.

Is Pavise, Aegis, Armshift, Advantage, Sol a good choise of skills? (I'm never sure 'bout skills since I mistakenly thought a unit just with healing skills like Sol would be good. )

[Gradivus.]

yes you can have him solo the map if it's too issuous otherwise.

strictly speaking, you don't need any specific skills to have MU cheese C23; although to maintain the (maybe forged) aversa's night it's probably a good idea to get armsthrift.

[Anelciel]

Okay, than I'll try this out when MU has done his change to Sorcerer. (He's still a mercenary, because I wanted to get armsthrift)

Thanks for the fast help.

[Czar_Yoshi]

So I'm wondering, on Lunatic+ is there any real significant benefit to actually focusing on training more combat pairs besides FAvatarxChrom?

If you do, don't start until Cht.3. There are lots of opportunities there to funnel exp into anyone with a ranged weapon and you can get ~4 levels onto Miriel/Sumia there without too much risk, which is enough to get them going.

There's little excuse for a bad guide, but I am not surprised that it ended up that way. On hard mode, the game does not sufficiently arm a new/casual player with the strategic knowledge to tackle Lunatic. Stuff like the versatility of dancing/rescue staffing, positioning(water trick, turtling, diversions) team building(Fred, team size), dealing with dangerous skills, etc.

You'd think all the earlygame Hammers would serve as a sufficient warning that using Fred is bad news later...

Okay, than I'll try this out when MU has done his change to Sorcerer. (He's still a mercenary, because I wanted to get armsthrift)

Thanks for the fast help.

You're in a base class on Cht.23?

Yeah you might want to think about promoting. Letting the enemies have 20+ in every stat on you is probably not a good idea and frankly I'm amazed you've managed to make it this far like that.

[Anelciel]

If you do, don't start until Cht.3. There are lots of opportunities there to funnel exp into anyone with a ranged weapon and you can get ~4 levels onto Miriel/Sumia there without too much risk, which is enough to get them going.

You'd think all the earlygame Hammers would serve as a sufficient warning that using Fred is bad news later...

You're in a base class on Cht.23?

Yeah you might want to think about promoting. Letting the enemies have 20+ in every stat on you is probably not a good idea and frankly I'm amazed you've managed to make it this far like that.

Naw! I just turned MU to a mercenary after getting to Chapter 23. Before that he was a assasin, which was just right to rush through all the "kill-boss"-maps. Chapter 23 was the point when I decided to start grinding and get him some useful skills like Aegis, etc. (Beeing one-hittet to hundred percent from every critical hit is kinda annoying.)

[-Cynthia-]

So I'm wondering, on Lunatic+ is there any real significant benefit to actually focusing on training more combat pairs besides FAvatarxChrom? Or is it something of a case where it's just more strategically interesting and diverse to have more options? I'm thinking about trying to use a couple of units I didn't focus on my last Lunatic run in Lunatic+ but being entirely honest, I'm not the biggest fan of L+ as a mode so I'm more concerned with just trying to finish it without much hassle so it's done with (bragging rights). I ask because I'm sitting hitting my head against a wall in Chapter 2 (it's getting there, I won't look at Interceptor's guide until I've done it myself first), and whilst the idea of combat training some combination (probably only 1 male and 1 female) of Stahl, Sully, Miriel, or maybe even Virion is intruiging, it does just seem so much harder to do. Well, Miriel and Virion less so, but I'm sure any L+ vet knows what I mean.

tl;dr convince me not to just Avatar solo nostank all of Luna+.

I'm not sure nostanking Luna+ will work so well due to enemies with Counter.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

You'd think all the earlygame Hammers would serve as a sufficient warning that using Fred is bad news later...

Some people just don't pay attention to this type of stuff. I was watching a stream the other day of someone who is ironmanning vanilla Lunatic, but is lacking in many basic skills (such as knowing that 5 Speed above is the threshold to double or how effective weapons work) that just turns the run into a slaughter. His Fred was also level 6 by C5 (which appears to be the point where every run dies for him, as even though I haven't been back there, I have Awakening on follow and it seems whenever he's streaming, the preview icon is C5 and the run number is incremented 1 or 2 times).

I'm not sure nostanking Luna+ will work so well due to enemies with Counter.

It works, but just isn't complete invincibility. Instead of tossing Robin in the middle of everything, one just has to be more careful to take the enemies in smaller segments.

As for the convincing part, the secondary objectives. Nostanking is slow and Robin is just one person. For instance, saving even just 1 Villager in P3 is bordering on impossible with a single pair (barring maybe having Galeforce). Training 2-3 more combat pairs (4, if you're feeling confident) and a staffbot battery allows these objectives to be much more easily fulfilled.

[omega zero]

Some people just don't pay attention to this type of stuff. I was watching a stream the other day of someone who is ironmanning vanilla Lunatic, but is lacking in many basic skills (such as knowing that 5 Speed above is the threshold to double or how effective weapons work) that just turns the run into a slaughter. His Fred was also level 6 by C5 (which appears to be the point where every run dies for him, as even though I haven't been back there, I have Awakening on follow and it seems whenever he's streaming, the preview icon is C5 and the run number is incremented 1 or 2 times).

I'm missing something, how does it follow from seeing some hammers now and then in the early chapters that you shouldn't over-rely on Fred? From an inexperienced player's perspective? I mean, there are archers in early chapters too, but it doesn't follow that I should avoid giving experience to Cordelia or Sumia.

I don't see how the presence of hammers conveys the message "don't use Fred to get a bunch of kills early on, rather, use him to aid/secure kills for your other units and try to keep Fred's kills to a strategic minimum."

[Irysa]

It works, but just isn't complete invincibility. Instead of tossing Robin in the middle of everything, one just has to be more careful to take the enemies in smaller segments.

As for the convincing part, the secondary objectives. Nostanking is slow and Robin is just one person. For instance, saving even just 1 Villager in P3 is bordering on impossible with a single pair (barring maybe having Galeforce). Training 2-3 more combat pairs (4, if you're feeling confident) and a staffbot battery allows these objectives to be much more easily fulfilled.

I don't give a damn about taking forever, Prologue takes like what, 60 something turns if you do the Water Trick? It seems silly to be bothered about speed after that. The items you get from most of the subobjectives aren't even all that useful most of the time either. Working in extra staffbots is relatively easy comparatively since you can literally convert raw money into EXP for anyone who can use a staff. The only reason I can think of not to do it is because I'll probably have to use Spotpass shops to buy Nosferatu and stuff, so if I wanted to stick to a more "vanilla" kind of run (it's in the spirit of nogrind and stuff), then I'd have to resort to Bow Emblem. Which if I do, kind of demands more units I think.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Irysa

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I'm missing something, how does it follow from seeing some hammers now and then in the early chapters that you shouldn't over-rely on Fred? From an inexperienced player's perspective? I mean, there are archers in early chapters too, but it doesn't follow that I should avoid giving experience to Cordelia or Sumia.

I don't see how the presence of hammers conveys the message "don't use Fred to get a bunch of kills early on, rather, use him to aid/secure kills for your other units and try to keep Fred's kills to a strategic minimum."

Think of it more as, "Hey, there's these random guys who one-shot your strongest guy, yet don't do as much damage to your weaker guys. Maybe you should train up one of your weaker guys so your strongest guy doesn't have to deal with those guys." It shows that there are enemies, even in the very early chapters, that are legit threats to Fred, so perhaps putting all of one's eggs in one basket might end poorly in the future.

I don't give a damn about taking forever, Prologue takes like what, 60 something turns if you do the Water Trick? It seems silly to be bothered about speed after that. The items you get from most of the subobjectives aren't even all that useful most of the time either. Working in extra staffbots is relatively easy comparatively since you can literally convert raw money into EXP for anyone who can use a staff. The only reason I can think of not to do it is because I'll probably have to use Spotpass shops to buy Nosferatu and stuff.

I'm not usually very concerned about speed either, but those secondary objectives do sometimes require moving quickly or having more map control, even if just for that single map (which is part of a handful in a bucket, at the end of the day). Really, I'm just trying to point out the strengths of using a larger team (and some of the items, like the stat boosters, aren't anything to scoff at), which are admittedly pretty small. The easiest way to just beat the campaign on Lunatic+ seriously is pretty much just going for a Robin/Chrom duo ASAP. Veteran is just that overpowered.