Colonel M Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Pretty much what Folt said. But, again, I think we're arguing too much on semantics and ignoring the primary point. Henry up the tier list but make sure to be under Tharja. No objections I'll take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folt Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 No objections here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 He could in fact take Anna or Lon'qu, but why take them when you can take someone he could support with and work much better with? He needs 18 speed to double ch14 cavs/mages. 2 from a speed tonic means he needs a 7 speed pairup at the least. Anna only gives 5, and Lonqu is conceded, but unlike Anna, he actually wants to support other people. Anna doesn't care who she's paired with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 He needs 18 speed to double ch14 cavs/mages. 2 from a speed tonic means he needs a 7 speed pairup at the least. Anna only gives 5, and Lonqu is conceded, but unlike Anna, he actually wants to support other people. Anna doesn't care who she's paired with. I don't understand your logic here... so Henry really wants to be paired with Anna failing his other top pair ups. What does that change since after all she doesn't care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Uh, did you not read my post? Anna doesn't give enough speed to allow Henry to reliably double. Anna doesn't care if she's paired with Tharja, but Lonqu definitely doesn't want to pair up with Henry. Edited May 17, 2013 by Constable Reggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Uh, did you not read my post? Anna doesn't give enough speed to allow Henry to reliably double. That's assuming he got no speed procs from Chapter 13 and a paralogue or two... I was talking about your comment on how she doesn't care and trying to figure out if it had relevancy and I wasn't seeing it. Also I'm pretty sure it's 17 speed. Edited May 17, 2013 by bearclaw13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Even if he got a speed proc he still wouldn't have enough to double if paired with Anna. Edited May 17, 2013 by Constable Reggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 why even send henry to fight the cavaliers when there are lots of knights that he can get just fine and his exp gain is crazy at this point anyway so he'll be doubling the cavaliers anyway after a couple of levels. which he might already have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Even if he got a speed proc he still wouldn't have enough to double if paired with Anna. Eh, Anna's giving 5 speed, add a tonic for 7 then he's only one or two points (which he can get via levels) of speed away from doubling and if you promote Lon'qu he gives Henry enough easily... although Lon'qu might be elsewhere. So Henry doubling isn't that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Er, you're clearly not reading my posts. I was assuming Henry was already getting speed tonics. He needs 3-4 levels in chapter 13 alone to be able to double with Anna, which is impossible. And I already explained why Lonqu is subpar, in comparison to Anna!Tharja. Edited May 17, 2013 by Constable Reggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Er, you're clearly not reading my posts. I was assuming Henry was already getting speed tonics. And I already explained why Lonqu is subpar, in comparison to Anna!Tharja. Lon'qu sucks come Valm. He's much better off going into speed bot mode at that point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Yeah, for someone he can actually support. Are you actually going to read my posts sometime? Edited May 17, 2013 by Constable Reggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Yeah, for someone he can actually support. Are you actually going to read my posts sometime? I have been... Let's say we give Henry Lon'qu so that he can double in Chapter 14. He's going to level up a lot because he's a low level and has great attack. This will pad his speed quite a bit and allow him to take something less extreme who he can support. Pretty much anyone he supports who gives speed is good for him. I have several characters who give him speed if you can't think of any good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Okay. That doesn't negate the fact that doing so is a huge opportunity cost for Henry, since now, Lonqu and his supports are losing out from not being able to pair up, ones likely far, far superior than Lonqu!Henry. Regardless, it doesn't really matter, since it's already been established that Henry's going up, but staying below Tharja. Edited May 17, 2013 by Constable Reggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Okay. That doesn't negate the fact that doing so is a huge opportunity cost for Henry, since now, Lonqu and his supports are losing out from not being able to pair up, ones likely far, far superior than Lonqu!Henry. What characters are doing better than a nostank who doubles? I can't think of many. Henry taking him for one map to become great, doing so gives your team more than it takes away. Also you're severely overstating the opportunity cost, Henry taking Lon'qu for one map isn't the best of things but it can be worked around quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Nowi? Panne? Cherche? Sully? If Henry takes Lonqu then he's not even orkoing jack shit. Why should we be wasting extra time letting Henry 2rko stuff when Lonqu+support can be orkoing everything? And again, insignificant. Henry's already going up, just not above Tharja. Edited May 17, 2013 by Constable Reggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Nowi? Panne? Cherche? Sully? If Henry takes Lonqu then he's not even orkoing jack shit. Why should we be wasting extra time letting Henry 2rko stuff when Lonqu+support can be orkoing everything? And again, insignificant. Henry's already going up, just not above Tharja. You continue to disregard tonics and the fact that Henry has probably leveled up once or twice. He can 1RKO well enough. You're last point is right though there's no real point in continuing this... Anyone have thoughts on the pegs > Anna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Yeah, if anything Henry vs. Tharja should kind of drop off. We already know Tharja > Henry - we just want the damned gap to close. Anyone have thoughts on the pegs > Anna? This one is kind of tough, but I could probably buy it (ahahahahaha). Sumia and Cordelia are around longer than Anna and their flight utility is hard to pass up on. Anna's Rescue staff use, par Movement, and bonuses on Pair Up are nice, though lacking real support options (barring MU and Tiki) kind of sucks. A shame that DLC and the like isn't allowed, because Levin Sword Trickster!Anna is fucking crazy good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I don't think anyone disagrees with Henry up a tier, so that can happen. I also can't really see Anna above the pegs without more constant access to Levin Swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) I also can't really see Anna above the pegs without more constant access to Levin Swords. Yeah, I have to agree with that. She could reclass to Mage after obtaining Lucky , but the Speed drop of 7 makes the hit pretty hard to swallow. It's either make her a combat unit or a utility unit, really. Edited May 17, 2013 by Colonel M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) yeah anna is only really an above average unit for 4 or 5 chapters then she's either relegated to pairup bot, or is just kind of horrible in general outside of rescueing which really doesn't have much prevelance in this tierlist, whereas Sumia and moreso Cordelia actually have some lategame potential, its a pretty obvious win in my mind. Without the Levin sword, the pegasi have better strength and exp gain regardless, and supports and avalibility and pretty much everything other than lockpicking and rescuing is in their favour. i could see her dropping further than below the pegasi but i'm far too tired and noncommital to put togethar an arguement right now Edited May 17, 2013 by General Horace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) I guess to be fair on Anna, she can have Levin Sword for about 75 uses (if you feel like using the Hammerne Staff or use Renown Points), 100 if you're willing to buy it with the Renown Points and use a Hammerne Staff on one. Once she has Silver Swords her combat is okay on some of the squishier units like Sages, but yeah - it really sucks how limited she is otherwise. Valm is pretty much when she starts cringing towards mediocre-to-bad in combat without the Levin Swords. Sumia and Cordelia have somewhat better lategame potential and they steal the show earlier than Anna. Rescue Staff utility is hard to beat, but so is being able to fly on the word go and having awesome support bonuses to go with it. And even though Reggie will deny it Dark Flier Sumia is actually legit with tomes once she's about D / C rank... it's just getting there that's awkward without a Scroll use. Edited May 17, 2013 by Colonel M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Renown isn't "spent." You reach that amount and you can get that item; Renown remains as-is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Renown isn't "spent." You reach that amount and you can get that item; Renown remains as-is. Ah okay. I'll be honest I just used the downloadable content. So 75 guaranteed for the most part, 100 if we count Hammerne... actually might as well ask what Hammerne is likely used on before I jump onto that conclusion. Not that it really matters otherwise, but *shrugs*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitoari Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 If this was a Lunatic tier list I could see Anna going up, but the staff utility is much less needed on hard and the tier list doesn't value Rescue very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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