this is my weird theory

[Big Klingy]

This topic has gone from a discussion of similaritys between Gaiden and SS to a discussion of whether FE6 sucks or not, to a discussion of whether Knoll sucks or not. Lets bring it back on topic.

Canas and Knoll actually have similar stats. The biggest difference is that Canas has decent defense, while Knoll has almost no defense at all.

Don't forget Knoll's practically nonexistant luck. (being a hypocrit here...)

...

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FE2 = very similar to FE8.

[Phoenix Wright]

Wow I'm going off topic on my own topic but I don't know anymore similarities between the 2 other than 8 is a sequel but not a sequel of 2. Don't know if that makes sense or not at least I know what I'm talking about

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

LOL on the first page. If any game should be a joke its FE8.

[Zanryu]

A hard game is not necessarily better than an easy game is what I meant.

The point of Fire Emblem is to be difficult enough to test your tactical skill. If there's nothing testing you, I wouldn't even call that Fire Emblem.

Fire Emblem - Tactical Skill Requirements = Not Fire Emblem.

So basically

Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones = The Sacred Stones.

I liked FE8, yes, but it's difficulty is so non existent that I dislike calling it a Fire Emblem game. I mean, even FE2 had a bit more difficulty than FE8.

[Phoenix Wright]

The point of Fire Emblem is to be difficult enough to test your tactical skill. If there's nothing testing you, I wouldn't even call that Fire Emblem.

Fire Emblem - Tactical Skill Requirements = Not Fire Emblem.

So basically

Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones = The Sacred Stones.

I liked FE8, yes, but it's difficulty is so non existent that I dislike calling it a Fire Emblem game. I mean, even FE2 had a bit more difficulty than FE8.

Huge insult to IS

[Kintenbo]

Use Knoll a lot of people say he sucks but they were RNG screwed. Knoll is better than Canas I think check the growths

Sorry buddy, but Knoll is heavily considered one of the worst units in the game. No luck, no defense, only has summoner utility, in which the summons aren't even that good, Knoll is dismal. He can die easily in the easiest game in the series. Even if he does have better stats than Canas somewhere, it doesn't make any difference. Canas isn't so fly either. Actually, Canas is average, neither great or terrible, thanks to existing luck and durability.

[Rehab]

The point of Fire Emblem is to be difficult enough to test your tactical skill. If there's nothing testing you, I wouldn't even call that Fire Emblem.

Fire Emblem - Tactical Skill Requirements = Not Fire Emblem.

So basically

Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones = The Sacred Stones.

I liked FE8, yes, but it's difficulty is so non existent that I dislike calling it a Fire Emblem game. I mean, even FE2 had a bit more difficulty than FE8.

The point of Fire Emblem isn't to be hard, just because it's a tactical thing. When you get down to it, most of the games can be beaten pretty simply, they just give you a lot of ways to beat the scenarios they throw at you, some of which can be hard. Block off this chokepoint, set up long range guys behind it, maybe throw in some healers, be patient, and bang, most, if not all, of the possible scenarios the games will throw at you are now pretty beatable. Ranks and perma-deaths are the only things really contributing to difficulty, not counting intentionally making the game harder yourself by doing this or that unit only run or something like that. And you're not calling SS a Fire Emblem game because, what, you don't feel like it?

[Raven]

*In reply to previous posts*

Sacred Stones is only easy if you make it easy for yourself.

I have a save file in Hard mode, in which I don't allow myself to use the tower to train my units, or battle the wild monsters on the map. Just travel from one chapter right to the next.

It's making me use my head to say the least. Especially the Renais Castle chapter.

Also, the desert chapter almost had me restarting about two or three times, but it's lucky a Paladin's Short Spear missed Ephraim on a 50-odd percent hit (just one of the occasions I remember).

So continue to rip the piss out of Sacred Stones, but try a hard mode runthrough in which you avoid map monster battles, and tower and ruins abuse.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Raven

[Zanryu]

The point of Fire Emblem isn't to be hard, just because it's a tactical thing. When you get down to it, most of the games can be beaten pretty simply, they just give you a lot of ways to beat the scenarios they throw at you, some of which can be hard. Block off this chokepoint, set up long range guys behind it, maybe throw in some healers, be patient, and bang, most, if not all, of the possible scenarios the games will throw at you are now pretty beatable. Ranks and perma-deaths are the only things really contributing to difficulty, not counting intentionally making the game harder yourself by doing this or that unit only run or something like that. And you're not calling SS a Fire Emblem game because, what, you don't feel like it?

I don't like to call it a Fire Emblem because there's nothing tactical about it. It's too easy to beat without any thought at all. I beat it like nothing on my first run, and have always beat it like nothing. I've never had to restart a chapter and I've never skipped out on recruiting anyone, even the ones that are hard to avoid killing (can someone say Amelia?). I took on the harder route in all but one file, and even that was nothing. If SS had anything involved that needed strategy, I'd say it was better than FE6. But it doesn't.

*In reply to previous posts*

Sacred Stones is only easy if you make it easy for yourself.

I have a save file in Hard mode, in which I don't allow myself to use the tower to train my units, or battle the wild monsters on the map. Just travel from one chapter right to the next.

It's making me use my head to say the least. Especially the Renais Castle chapter.

Also, the desert chapter almost had me restarting about two or three times, but it's lucky a Paladin's Short Spear missed Ephraim on a 50-odd percent hit (just one of the occasions I remember).

So continue to rip the piss out of Sacred Stones, but try a hard mode runthrough in which you avoid map monster battles, and tower and ruins abuse.

I avoid those in every mode. My hard mode runs were completed so fast and so frigging easily it wasn't even funny. I have minimal play time on my first hard mode run and that was a straight run, no map monsters, no tower, no ruins, and no arena (Final Destination). And I've also worked for hours on maxing every single unit in the Creature Campaign, and the play time is STILL low, which shows how quickly I got through the game. This also includes me soloing the Tower of Valni with Colm after beating the game. This also shows how easy it was for me to beat it, if I beat it so damn fast.

Honestly, there's nothing even somewhat challenging about Sacred Stones in any difficulty, except the last floor of the Ruins.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Zanryu

[Knife]

I am NOT an Elibe hater. See my favorite FE over there?

Problems with SoS: (Note that I'm comparing to the other GBA games

All chapters (Save the very last) being sieze missions

Enemies appearing at the start of the enemy phase

No enemies dropping items

Way too many villages

Constant recruitable enemies (Not a huge problem, but having to alter strategies every chapter to get an enemy to your side without either of you dying was annoying. I'm looking at YOU, Douglas!)

Predictable sidequest requirements (Keep someone alive or beat in X turns)

No promotion for thieves (I had Chad and Cath at level 20)

Lack of a significant story. Did it even have a story?

No support library.

Need I continue?

Mostly this. It needs more variety. Also, the music is pretty bland.

[Florete]

SS hard mode did give me a few challenges, namely the desert and the Rausten castle one. The desert I just kept screwing up on, and Rausten Castle just kept throwing reinforcements at me.

[Rehab]

None of the Fire Emblems are excessively deep tactical experiences. Camp this spot, move forward when safe using a wall of dudes. Pretty simple if all you're trying to do is get through the games. Sacred Stones just makes it easier to blaze through with even less abandon than most of the others.

[Knife]

If you want a real tactical challenge, you should be playing Advance Wars.

[Metal Rabbit]

Advance Wars is more Tactic-Savvy than most FE games, but there ARE alot of moments where good tactics pay off. Saying there's no strategy to this game is ignorant.

[Knife]

Advance Wars is more Tactic-Savvy than most FE games, but there ARE alot of moments where good tactics pay off. Saying there's no strategy to this game is ignorant.

I didn't say that Fire Emblem requires no strategy either, but Advance Wars is mostly more tactically challenging because:

You don't get uber units.

[Rehab]

@Metal

Which is why I didn't say that, ya foo. I said the same strategies/tactics/yo mama works for just about every situation. Some of the other games, say RD or Holy War, just make you think a bit harder about stuff like "Should I have my wall guy attack the person in front of him this turn, orwould it be more efficient to save him the HP for next turn?" and "Should I place my guy in this spot where he'll be attacked more, get more exp and finish this thing faster, or back here where he's safer?" It's all about the walls, baby.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Mac

[Metal Rabbit]

I didn't say that Fire Emblem requires no strategy either, but Advance Wars is mostly more tactically challenging because:

You don't get uber units.

I wasn't calling YOU ignorant. There are Uber CO's though :P

@Metal

Which is why I didn't say that, ya foo. I said the same strategies/tactics/yo mama works for just about every situation. Some of the other games, say RD or Holy War, just make you think a bit harder about stuff like "Should I have my wall guy attack the person in front of him this turn, orwould it be more efficient to save him the HP for next turn?" and "Should I place my guy in this spot where he'll be attacked more, get more exp and finish this thing faster, or back here where he's safer?" It's all about the walls, baby.

Well maybe for you it is. I don't generally use walls unless its a defense chapter.

[Rehab]

They're all you ever need to use, though. If you can beat any situation using one simple way, I don't think a deep tactical experience is the point here.

[Metal Rabbit]

And the fun part of tactics is mixing it up when you're in the fray. If you can't use a new method then explore your options and take it to 'em. True, you don't NEED to use them but you also don't need to breath, eat or shit down someone's roof when they piss you off.

[Florete]

On a side note, I disagree with AW being more tactically challenging. Sure, it's definitely harder, but that's only because there are fewer things to take into account in your strategies, where in FE you can be sure to take advantage of everything and have almost complete control over anything.

Think about it: A newbie on AW and a newbie on FE. They would likely think AW is easier.

Moving on now.

[Rehab]

And the fun part of tactics is mixing it up when you're in the fray. If you can't use a new method then explore your options and take it to 'em. True, you don't NEED to use them but you also don't need to breath, eat or shit down someone's roof when they piss you off.

Nice analogies.

[Phoenix Wright]

*In reply to previous posts*

Sacred Stones is only easy if you make it easy for yourself.

I have a save file in Hard mode, in which I don't allow myself to use the tower to train my units, or battle the wild monsters on the map. Just travel from one chapter right to the next.

It's making me use my head to say the least. Especially the Renais Castle chapter.

Also, the desert chapter almost had me restarting about two or three times, but it's lucky a Paladin's Short Spear missed Ephraim on a 50-odd percent hit (just one of the occasions I remember).

So continue to rip the piss out of Sacred Stones, but try a hard mode runthrough in which you avoid map monster battles, and tower and ruins abuse.

Avoid the tower? If I have to do that than it's not worth it. The reason why it's there is to train units it says so in the game! There's no point to playing any game in hard mode anyway I keep it simple and stick to normal. In 11's case I'm playing hard

[Metal Rabbit]

To everyone their own. It's about fun, that's what games are meant to be.

[Phoenix Wright]

And that's why I play easy/normal

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

To everyone their own. It's about fun, that's what games are meant to be.

But you should be serious about a game to some extent (how else can you get better at something if you're not going to take it seriously?)