An Unfinished Radical Class-Tree

[Crixler]

So, I've recently been thinking about the Fire Emblem class trees. None of them are perfect.

Cavaliers, in particular, are an aspect I have been thinking quite a bit about. A few games have split cavaliers up into several distinct variants that are limited to one weapon. I've never liked that. I get why they did it, but it seems kind of cheap.

And then there's soldiers. How would you fit soldiers/halberdiers into a FE8/FE13 class tree? Obviously, it would go in the same set as cavaliers and knights. But how would it all branch out? And what's really the difference between a soldier and a (lance) cavalier, other than the horse?

A couple games included dismounting, but it seems like a half-finished feature, to me.

And I wanted to fit the dread fighter into it all.

I also like the ideas of recruit and tier 3 classes.

So I thought about all of this, and more.

And eventually, I came up with this:

A few classes have been cut from this, and many have been changed a bit from their original versions.

One of the first things you might notice, other than the circular nature of it, is that there are no cavaliers or other mounted classes.

That's because I'm proposing that every class be inherently a foot-based unit. Mounts (horses, pegasi, wyverns, griffons, etc) would be either a skill or a held item.

If mounts are skills, they would not be class skills, they would be obtained as items (rare drops). They could be learned by any unit. Obtaining a mount would give you all the bonuses and weaknesses associated with that mount. Some units, such as your Cain and Abel archetypes, would start with a “horse” skill when you get them.

You may be forced to dismount for indoor maps.

So, each trainee class is limited to their weapon type. They promote into one of two options, both of which are also limited to that weapon type. Then they promote to their T2 class. Each T1 class has 2 T2 classes available to them, one of which will retain their weapon purity (ex: swordmaster), and the other will gain another weapon type (ex: hero). T3 purist classes would also keep their single weapon type, but T3 hybrid classes might get access to a ranged weapon, though I'm not sure how balanced that would be.

The ranged weapons I'm thinking would be bows, tomes, and crossbows, for marshall, aggressor, and vanguard, respectively.

T3 purist classes would have access to special weapons of their weapon type (like how snipers get access to longbows).

Regarding the magic web…

There are four T1 classes, the Curate, Monk, Mage, and Shaman. It should be fairly clear what each of those is about. Only the three tome-wielding ones have trainee classes. Those trainee classes only have one promotion option available. But each T1 class has four promotion options, except the curate, which has three. For the most part, it should be pretty clear what each class does, once you realize what it is that you're looking at.

And then the third web…

The thief line would possibly use knives, rather than swords. Snipers are the purist archer line, as usual; they use only bows, but do have access to longbows and crossbows. For bard promotions, I'm thinking the way this will work is that the bard will function as a barebones bard/dancer type class. No weapons, all it does is let units move again. Then it can promote into "Skald", and gain access to bows. Or it can promote to "Citharode", and gain access to various different instruments that would provide various different extra effects when they play for another unit.

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I'm still iffy on some of these class names, particularly the following:

Hero/Vanguard - Due to the change from axes to lances, I'm considering changing their names to Legionnaire (or Legionary) and Centurion. Not sure, though.

Brigand - I feel it works better for this tree than pirate, barbarian, or bandit. But I still don't particularly like it.

Wizard – The word “wizard” just sounds a little cliché to me.

Master Mage – This just sounds cheesy. I was having trouble thinking of a name, though, and saw that there was an unused class called this.

"Citharode" and "Rhapsode" – These might be a bit exotic sounding names. Maybe Citharode could be changed to Minstrel. Rhapsode will probably stay, though.

"Warden" – I’m not sure if it fits its role very well. I mainly just kept the name from the previous version of the tree, before it overlapped with bards.

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Thoughts, suggestions?

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[spoiler=Previous Version]

So, I've recently been thinking about the Fire Emblem class trees. None of them are perfect.

Cavaliers, in particular, are an aspect I have been thinking quite a bit about. A few games have split cavaliers up into several distinct variants that are limited to one weapon. I've never liked that. I get why they did it, but it seems kind of cheap.

And then there's soldiers. How would you fit soldiers/halberdiers into a FE8/FE13 class tree? Obviously, it would go in the same set as cavaliers and knights. But how would it all branch out? And what's really the difference between a soldier and a (lance) cavalier, other than the horse?

A couple games included dismounting, but it seems like a half-finished feature, to me.

And I wanted to fit the dread fighter into it all.

I also like the ideas of recruit and tier 3 classes.

So I thought about all of this, and more.

And eventually, I came up with this (for weapon triangle units, anyway)

A few classes have been cut from this, and many have been changed a bit from their original versions.

One of the first things you might notice, other than the circular nature of it, is that there are no cavaliers or other mounted classes.

That's because I'm proposing that every class be inherently a foot-based unit. Mounts (horses, pegasi, wyverns, griffons, etc) would be either a skill or a held item.

If mounts are skills, they would not be class skills, they would be obtained as items. They could be learned by any unit. Obtaining a mount would give you all the bonuses and weaknesses associated with that mount.

You may be forced to dismount for indoor maps.

So, each trainee class is limited to their weapon type. They promote into one of two options, both of which are also limited to that weapon type. Then they promote to their T2 class. Each T1 class has 2 T2 classes available to them, one of which will retain their weapon purity (ex: swordmaster), and the other will gain another weapon type (ex: hero). T3 purist classes would also keep their single weapon type, but T3 hybrid classes might get access to a ranged weapon, though I'm not sure how balanced that would be.

The ranged weapons I'm thinking would be bows, tomes, and crossbows, for marshall, aggressor, and vanguard, respectively.

T3 purist classes would have access to special weapons of their weapon type (like how snipers get access to longbows).

---

And then, here's what I'm thinking for archer classes:

Not as fancy as the other one, but hey.

This one is mostly straightforward, but a little different. Snipers are the purist line, as usual. Rangers would gain access to either axes or swords. The thief line would possibly use knives, rather than swords.

---

And then, there's magic...

I haven't really been able to think of anything I like for magic classes, yet.

I would like to see a return of light magic and the magic triangle. I would not want the anima mage split that the Tellius games have.

And I would like to take a similar approach as the weapon triangle classes, but I'm not sure how to actually do it. Largely because of staves, they complicate things a little bit. I could perhaps have staff-based units outside of the main magic tree, similar to archers and thieves. But I'm not sure, yet.

Edit:

Here's the magic class web.

It's a little messy, but this is what I came up with.

There are 4 T1 classes, the Curate, Monk, Mage, and Shaman. It should be fairly clear what each of those is about. Only the 3 tome-wielding ones have trainee classes. Those trainee classes only have one promotion option available. But each T1 class has 4 promotion options, except the curate, which has 3. For the most part, it should be pretty clear what each class does, once you realize what it is you're looking at.

Many of these names are essentially placeholders (particularly "Dark Druid", Wizard, Master Mage, and Mage Fighter).

---

I'm still iffy on some of these class names, particularly the following:

Reaver as a promotion of berserker. But there aren't any more warriors in this tree, and I don't know what else to call a T3 berserker.

Aggressor - I'm not sure what else to call it. Demon Lord?

Hero/Vanguard - Due to the change from axes to lances, I'm considering changing their names to Legionnaire (or Legionary) and Centurion. Not sure, though.

Brigand - I feel it works better for this tree than pirate, barbarian, or bandit. But I still don't particularly like it.

Deceiver - This name is crap. I have no better idea, but I do have worse ideas. Like spy.

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Thoughts, suggestions?

Edited April 13, 2013 by Crixler

[Dragrath]

Very interesting... so everyone could be a mounted unit? I like that... (Perhaps you earn mounts during the campaign and once a mount is earned any character could use them(but a mount could only be used one at a time)? I could see their appearance on maps being other units that you capture rater than recruit... (or earn them as rewards)-Its similar to item's but it makes sense (and helps avoid the weird mount randomly spawns promotions/reclassings)

Few other questions:

- what about magic? I'm imaging that it has its own separate tree?

- what about bows?(do archer get their own tree as well or do they count as a specialty class(or something of the nature)

-Does this make hybrid and other weapon combinations impossible?

for final comments:

- lol at heroes lances instead of axes...

well thought out though I like it so far...

Edit: If you ask me the only thing that would need adding to put soldiers in is give them halberdier and general as promotions...

Edited March 26, 2013 by Dragrath

[Crixler]

Very interesting... so everyone could be a mounted unit? I like that... (Perhaps you earn mounts during the campaign and once a mount is earned any character could use them(but a mount could only be used one at a time)? I could see their appearance on maps being other units that you capture rater than recruit... (or earn them as rewards)-Its similar to item's but it makes sense (and helps avoid the weird mount randomly spawns promotions/reclassings)

Few other questions:

- what about magic? I'm imaging that it has its own separate tree?

- what about bows?(do archer get their own tree as well or do they count as a specialty class(or something of the nature)

-Does this make hybrid and other weapon combinations impossible?

for final comments:

- lol at heroes lances instead of axes...

well thought out though I like it so far...

Edit: If you ask me the only thing that would need adding to put soldiers in is give them halberdier and general as promotions...

1. Yeah, I'm thinking mounts could be either rare drops or storyline rewards or something. Some characters would start with mounts, though. I'm leaning towards them being skills, and using a skill system like Awakening's. So mounts would be non-transferable once you assign them to a character, most likely. I like the capturing mounts idea. I think it would be cool to raid an enemy base and steal a horse from their stables or something.

2-3. I just updated my main post with that info. (Not much info on magic, unfortunately)

4. Well, some more weapon combinations would probably appear in the magic class tree. I'm also thinking some characters could maybe have special citizen skills that would allow them to wield other weapon types, sort of like shadowgift.

5. Yeah, I had to make it fit :p I'm thinking of maybe changing the names of hero/vanguard to legionnaire/centurion because of the change. But I'm not sure.

6. True, that could work, and I was thinking more along those lines initially, but eh. Then I thought of the whole cavalier/mount thing, and everything changed. XD

Edited March 26, 2013 by Crixler

[Knight]

This is actually quite interesting, I look forward to your take on magic.

[Gryz]

Thief + Knife + Horse = Mounted unit trying to attack with a very short reach weapon. It would be both awkward and hilarious.

I like the ideas in your initial tree.

Here's my take which builds upon your tree and ditches the secondary Archer/Thief tree completely:

Myrmidon --> Dread (Sword + Axe) or Assassin (Sword + Bow)

Mercenary --> Hero (Sword + Lance) or Swordmaster (Sword)

Soldier --> Hero (Lance + Sword) or Halberdier (Lance + Bow)

Knight --> General (Lance + Axe) or Sentinel (Lance)

Fighter --> General (Axe + Lance) or Warrior (Axe + Bow)

Brigand --> Dread (Axe + Sword) or Berserker (Axe)

Archer --> Halberider (Bow + Lance) or Sniper (Bow)

Hunter --> Warrior (Bow + Axe) or Assassin (Bow + Sword)

I didn't include third tier classes. But if each second tier class only has only 1 path, then adding them in would be easy.

There is every combination of 2 weapons + the mono-weapon classes.

For each dual weapon promoted class, there are corresponding unpromoted classes for each weapon type. Ex: Warrior (Axe + Bow) has Fighter (Axe) and Hunter (Bow)

Each mono-weapon promoted class only has 1 unpromoted class associated with it (although I don't see this as a bad thing)

For the unpromoted classes that use a "weapon-triangle" weapon, they fall into one of these two categories for their promotion choices:

1. Gain the weapon your primary weapon is good against against OR gain access to bows. (Myrmidon, Solider, Fighter)

2. Gain the weapon your primary weapon is bad against OR go into mono-weapon specialization. (Mercenary, Knight, Brigand)

Edit:

Err... it might be clearer to say:

1. Classes with a bow choice: can also choose a class which gains a weapon that overcomes the weakness of the unpromoted class's weapon. Ex: Fighter --> General. The newly acquired lances defeat axes' weakness of swords.

2. Classes with a mono choice: can also choose a class which gains a weapon that is strong against the unpromoted class's own weapon. Ex: Brigand --> Dread. The newly acquired swords defeats axes. So a Brigand can specialize in axes (Berserker) or have the option to have an advantage against other axe users (Dread)

Actually... that was kinda confusing as well. Whatever. There is some sort of symmetry there and I like it. asdfkjkjdjdiokdejhb!!!

Edited March 26, 2013 by Revenant

[Dragrath]

How's this for a sugestion for magic? There could be an initial separation into Dark Anima light and Staffs you could go inward to pick up another magic weapon or outward to obtain a physical weapon (you could include Anima subtypes and the related triangle but classify them all as Anima meaning any Anima user could use all of them for interesting triangle manipulation)

(I hope those skill assignable weapons could be a scroll of you could use a FE 10 skill system... (personaly I'd find a hybridization between FE 10 and FE 13 to be a very interesting one...)

(still iffy about mounts being skills... feels weird)

Good luck might come up w/ what I would do for a class system during the summer maybe(would be entirely different don't worry)... sounds interesting...

[Crixler]

Stuff

That sounds rather complicated, and I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around it. You should make a graphic version, to make it easier to understand.

If I'm reading it right, though, it sounds like it could work. It's a different approach than what I took, but I think it could maybe be about equally viable. It's interesting.

How's this for a sugestion for magic? There could be an initial separation into Dark Anima light and Staffs you could go inward to pick up another magic weapon or outward to obtain a physical weapon (you could include Anima subtypes and the related triangle but classify them all as Anima meaning any Anima user could use all of them for interesting triangle manipulation)

(I hope those skill assignable weapons could be a scroll of you could use a FE 10 skill system... (personaly I'd find a hybridization between FE 10 and FE 13 to be a very interesting one...)

(still iffy about mounts being skills... feels weird)

Good luck might come up w/ what I would do for a class system during the summer maybe(would be entirely different don't worry)... sounds interesting...

I'm thinking of maybe making staff-based classes sit outside the main magic tree, like what I did with archers and thieves. And then take a similar approach to dark/anima/light as I did with the weapon triangle. But that would require each magic type to have 2 pure T1 classes, which I don't think has really been done before, has it?

I think staves would be easier to deal with if you were to take an approach more like Revenant's, but I'd like to see if it could really be done well with my approach, too.

Hmm.

Time to grab some paper, I guess.

Edit: I forgot to mention, I do like skill scrolls. But I was thinking the weapon-use granting skills would probably be more of an inherent character-based thing. An example where something like that would have been great would be DLC/Spotpass Elincia in Awakening - a special skill that would have let her use swords (Amiti) would have been cool. Or the Black Knight. That sort of thing. But hey, assignable versions could be cool, too.

Hmmmmmmmmm. I'm not liking what I'm coming up with for magic. It's too difficult to remove staves from the main magic tree, while giving everything all these branched promotions, while keeping everything distinct. Maybe dedicated staff classes could be dropped entirely, and just have tome users acquire staves with certain promotions? No, that's probably going too far.

And I'd like to include summoners, but they wouldn't really fit in if I took the same approach as the weapon triangle classes. I don't even think summoners could really fit in well with Revenant's system.

I'm not sure how to do magic classes well while including dedicated staff classes and summoners, without being redundant, unless you stick with a simpler setup that's more or less the same as FE8/13 (minus mounts). And that just doesn't seem right after what I did to the physical classes.

I'd like the magic tree to have symmetry, T3, trainees, and ideally be cyclical, but I haven't figured out a good way to do it yet.

Actually, I miiiight have an idea...

Edit 2:

It's a little messy, but this is what I came up with.

There are 4 T1 classes, the Curate, Monk, Mage, and Shaman. It should be fairly clear what each of those is about. Only the 3 tome-wielding ones have trainee classes. Those trainee classes only have one promotion option available. But each T1 class has 4 promotion options, except the curate, which has 3. For the most part, it should be pretty clear what each class does, once you realize what it is you're looking at.

Many of these names are essentially placeholders (particularly "Dark Druid", Wizard, Master Mage, and Mage Fighter).

How does everyone feel about this?

Edited March 27, 2013 by Crixler

[Knight]

What distinguishes a wizard from sage? Or Druid from sorcerer? Those are some questions I have. Since there are no mounted classes, it'll be more difficult to distinguish these. Also, may I recommend Acolyte rather than Disciple?

[Komeiji Koishi]

@OP, this seems pretty interesting, it'd be cool to see in an FE (hack, if needed).

What distinguishes a wizard from sage? Or Druid from sorcerer? Those are some questions I have. Since there are no mounted classes, it'll be more difficult to distinguish these. Also, may I recommend Acolyte rather than Disciple?

It has something to do with magic combinations, or that's what it looks like to me. Ex. Sorcerer has Dark Magic and Staves, while Druid has Dark and Anima magics. Wizards use Anima magic and Staves, while Sages have Light and Anima, kind of like FE8- I could be wrong though.

[PresidentEden]

On the magic thing.

First tier:

Initiate: Uses dark magic; promotes to a warlock or shaman.

Pupil: Uses anima magic; promotes to a wizard or mage.

Acolyte: Uses light magic; promotes to a monk or cleric.

Disciple: Uses light magic; promotes to a medic.

Second tier:

Warlock: Uses dark magic; promotes to a valkyrie or cultist.

Shaman: Uses dark magic; promotes to a cultist or druid.

Wizard: Uses anima magic; promotes to a druid or sorceror.

Mage: Uses anima magic; promotes to a sorceror or sage.

Monk: Uses light magic; promotes to a sage or bishop.

Cleric: Uses light magic; promotes to a bishop or valkyrie.

Medic: Uses staves; promotes to a saint. (optionally, substitute bishop)

Third tier:

Valkyrie: Uses light and dark magic.

Cultist: Uses dark magic and staves.

Druid: Uses dark and anima magic.

Sorceror: Uses anima magic and staves.

Sage: Uses anima and light magic.

Bishop: Uses light magic and staves.

Saint: Uses staves and light magic.

The concept is that you have a web for the attackers and a linear progression for the healers. (I did the same in modifying your physical units for the archers and thieves.)

How to understand the class names:

Initiate: An initiate is an entry-level provisional member to some society. Since dark magic is typically viewed as being reserved for members of cults, the initiate should be understood as entering into this cult of dark magic.

Pupil: I went with "Apprentice" originally but decided instead to adopt the old name and use "apprentice" in place of "swordsman" on the other web. A pupil studies under a master magician to learn his trade, pretty simple.

Acolyte: A typical lower-level position within the Christian Church; since light magic is viewed as being reserved for members of the official religion (which borrows terminology from Christianity), this seemed a good fit.

Missionary: A member of the Church seeking to spread its message through healing and ministering to others far from the geographic origin of the Church. Same logic with the acolyte wrt naming.

Warlock: A member of aforesaid dark cult who has finished initial training. Warlocks are more battle-oriented, seeking to understand how to manipulate dark magic for use in combat.

Shaman: Also a fully-initiated member of the cult. Shamans seek a greater understanding of themselves and the world around them more than they seek combat prowess.

Wizard: An entry-level pupil who has graduated from studying under someone. Wizards view their trade as a means for personal empowerment and seek to learn more to strengthen themselves.

Mage: Also a newly-independent pupil. Mages use their studies primarily to enhance their intellectual abilities.

Monk: An acolyte who has been ordained to minister to members of the Church within the geographic "home" of the Church. Their aim is greater understanding of the divine; they are the more academic promotion route.

Cleric: An acolyte ordained to minister. These are more in the mold of the prototypical "battle cleric," aiming to spread the Church's message by defending the weak and the poor with their combat abilities.

Medic: A missionary who has completed medical training. Their professional role shifts away from spreading the Church's message and more toward healing others, regardless of religious preferences.

Cultist: A senior/leader within the dark cult. Given that both warlocks and shamans can promote to this class, their precise motivation for ascending through the ranks isn't clearly definable, but their prowess is clear regardless of aim.

Druid: A highly experienced magician well-in-tune with nature. The class is emblematic of the spellcaster seeking to understand the natural world in order to reach new levels of intellectual enlightenment and physical skill.

Sorceror: Talented magician who has mastered the art of nature magic. Like the Cultist, their motivation varies, but they'll tend to see their art as a means of personal growth and improvement.

Sage: Wise [wo/]man who has achieved some higher level of understanding through long and rigorous contemplation. Emblematic of the prototypical "Eastern sage" that spends long sequences of time training to gain enlightenment.

Bishop: Leader within the Church; in the FE universe this is more of an honorific bestowed upon particularly talented priests more than an actual office (in the Christian sense).

Valkyrie: A magician that sees himself/herself as an arm of justice. They wield light and dark magic as a symbolic representation of their willingness to bring judgment upon anyone, no matter how "good" or "bad" they're perceived as.

Saint: Like the Bishop, this is more of an honorific bestowed upon particularly good people, but it does fit to an extent; the Medic focuses on helping others as <deity> would, which is the essence of sainthood anyway.

EDIT: I hate the concept of having another promotion tier after the second[/third in FE8], so I didn't have one.

Edited March 27, 2013 by PresidentEden

[Crixler]

@OP, this seems pretty interesting, it'd be cool to see in an FE (hack, if needed).

It has something to do with magic combinations, or that's what it looks like to me. Ex. Sorcerer has Dark Magic and Staves, while Druid has Dark and Anima magics. Wizards use Anima magic and Staves, while Sages have Light and Anima, kind of like FE8- I could be wrong though.

That is indeed the case.

And as for acolyte vs disciple, that's probably a good change, yeah.

[Dragrath]

The magic triangle feels very messy and a few noticeable things (I note you are changing roles but):

Sorcerer's in FE games so far only get offensive magic and have abnormal high defensive stats which make them front line spell casters so Sorcerer shouldn't be promoted healers as that would be like giving generals staffs...

I think things would be easier if you had 4 starting points or corners being dedicated dark magic, light magic, anima magic & staff which could go off as specialist or generalists(picking up either another magic type or a physical weapon)...(similar to the weapon tier)

-some such as wizard have no known basis in the FE series and need explaining(as far as I'm aware you have no need for more than class w/ each combination or role so..)

-I can't see why staff wielders are at the center w/ out troubadours there is only one healer class while there are far more offensive magic wielders I feel it crowds it by over cetrilizing a role in comparison to your first circle (which was what i liked about it as if felt that all the weapon types started equally...)

[Crixler]

The magic triangle feels very messy and a few noticeable things (I note you are changing roles but):

Sorcerer's in FE games so far only get offensive magic and have abnormal high defensive stats which make them front line spell casters so Sorcerer shouldn't be promoted healers as that would be like giving generals staffs...

I think things would be easier if you had 4 starting points or corners being dedicated dark magic, light magic, anima magic & staff which could go off as specialist or generalists(picking up either another magic type or a physical weapon)...(similar to the weapon tier)

-some such as wizard have no known basis in the FE series and need explaining(as far as I'm aware you have no need for more than class w/ each combination or role so..)

-I can't see why staff wielders are at the center w/ out troubadours there is only one healer class while there are far more offensive magic wielders I feel it crowds it by over cetrilizing a role in comparison to your first circle (which was what i liked about it as if felt that all the weapon types started equally...)

Do you feel it would be better to swap sorcerers and druids, then? I had thought about doing that, but in FE8, druids were able to use anima as well, so it had precedence.

(Edit: Fire Emblem Wiki says that sorcerers have been staff users in past games.)

Regarding wizards, that's just what I've termed the staff/anima user. I originally had sage in that slot, but was having trouble coming up with a name for an anima/light user. So I decided it would be easier name-wise to just move sages over there, and make "wizard" be the new staff/anima class. I'm definitely open to different naming suggestions, though. Or were you more talking about their stats? In that case, I haven't really thought about that too much, yet.

Curate isn't in the center for the sake of emphasis, it's just in the center because it's able to branch into any of the offensive magic types. The alternative would be to list it three times, which would be rather redundant.

Think of the web more three-dimensionally - imagine the curate is offset from the rest of it all. Side view: |>

I don't want to incorporate staff users (or bow users, for the physical classes) into the main magic web as its own branch on the same level as the various tomes. Because it's not like the various tomes. It's really a separate concept, and I feel it should be treated as such.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Crixler

[Dragrath]

Do you feel it would be better to swap sorcerers and druids, then? I had thought about doing that, but in FE8, druids were able to use anima as well, so it had precedence.

(Edit: Fire Emblem Wiki says that sorcerers have been staff users in past games.)

Regarding wizards, that's just what I've termed the staff/anima user. I originally had sage in that slot, but was having trouble coming up with a name for an anima/light user. So I decided it would be easier name-wise to just move sages over there, and make "wizard" be the new staff/anima class. I'm definitely open to different naming suggestions, though. Or were you more talking about their stats? In that case, I haven't really thought about that too much, yet.

Curate isn't in the center for the sake of emphasis, it's just in the center because it's able to branch into any of the offensive magic types. The alternative would be to list it three times, which would be rather redundant.

Think of the web more three-dimensionally - imagine the curate is offset from the rest of it all. Side view: |>

I don't want to incorporate staff users (or bow users, for the physical classes) into the main magic web as its own branch on the same level as the various tomes. Because it's not like the various tomes. It's really a separate concept, and I feel it should be treated as such.

Checked the wiki Ah I never played FE 12(because Nintendo didn't release it in America...) so I didn't know they could use staffs in that game...(I never used Sorcerers in FE11 either..) but it seems you are right, very well carry on, my bad... (I feel stupid...)

as for a light magic only class in FE 10 Micaiah's unique class is light mage... Lastly shouldn't Achsage for old times sake be able to use light/Dark/Anima/Staffs?

Edit: Perhaps instead of cultist you call them Spirit Charmers? Cultist sounds derogatory...

Instead of "Dark Druid" maybe Witch Doctor or Spiritualist?(looked up related terms on the internet that fit the class line)

Edited March 28, 2013 by Dragrath

[Crixler]

Checked the wiki Ah I never played FE 12 so I didn't know they could use staffs in that game...(I never used Sorcerers in FE11 either..) but it seems you are right, very well carry on, my bad... (I feel stupid...)

as for a light magic only class in FE 10 Micaiah's unique class is light mage... Lastly shouldn't Achsage for old times sake be able to use light/Dark/Anima/Staffs?

Edit: Perhaps instead of cultist you call them Spirit Charmers? Cultist sounds derogatory...

It's fine, I've barely touched either of those games, myself. I'm mostly going by whatever the wiki says lol.

I went with "monk" and "shaman" over "light mage" and "dark mage" because I've never been fond of those terms. If there's a light mage and a dark mage, shouldn't the normal mage be called an anima mage? It's all a mouthful and implies a closeness between the classes that doesn't necessarily exist.

Use of all 4 magic types seems like a bit much, to me, and would go against one of the concepts I'm going with here. I'm thinking they might just get anima and light magic.

Spirit Charmer seems a little long and fanciful... It sounds more like a T2 class name. I don't really think cultist is all that derogatory, anyway.

Edit: Witch doctor! I kind of like that. Thanks!

Edited March 28, 2013 by Crixler

[Iridium]

Aggressor - I'm not sure what else to call it. Demon Lord?

Deceiver - This name is crap. I have no better idea, but I do have worse ideas. Like spy.

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Thoughts, suggestions?

For 'deceiver', just steal the Rogue class from FE8 and give them staves. Trickster seems based off of Rogue anyway, and it's what Rennac was converted to.

For Aggressor: Dreadnought. Their attacks are explained by definition three, and their resistance by definition four.

[Crixler]

For 'deceiver', just steal the Rogue class from FE8 and give them staves. Trickster seems based off of Rogue anyway, and it's what Rennac was converted to.

For Aggressor: Dreadnought. Their attacks are explained by definition three, and their resistance by definition four.

Dreadnought? I love it.

Rogue could work, too.

[Gryz]

That sounds rather complicated, and I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around it. You should make a graphic version, to make it easier to understand.

If I'm reading it right, though, it sounds like it could work. It's a different approach than what I took, but I think it could maybe be about equally viable. It's interesting.

It's not too much different than what you have now. Compared to your tree, the main difference is that the (Merc, Myrm), (Fighter, Brigand), and (Soldier, Knight) pairs no longer share a promotion between them. One member of the pair gets a bow promotion (Myrm -> Assassin, Fighter -> Warrior, Soldier -> Halberdier), and the other member remains in specializing their primary weapon (Merc -> Swordmaster, Brig -> Berserker, Knight -> Sentinel). Then I just added in the unpromoted bow classes (Archer, Hunter) and had their promotions tie in with the other bow promotions.

[NyanKitteh]

I always though "Trickmaster" sounded decent for a trickster promotion, just maybe.

[Dragrath]

Have you finalized the bow/thief lines yet? I know it's been a while but... oh and I'm wondering how would the class tree and mount system affect other mechanics?

[Iridium]

I always though "Trickmaster" sounded decent for a trickster promotion, just maybe.

If you want to go the route of 'someone who is really good at tricks', there's always Harlequin.

'Blackguard' and 'Mountebank' would be decent if you're just looking for 'someone who deceives'.

[Crixler]

Have you finalized the bow/thief lines yet? I know it's been a while but... oh and I'm wondering how would the class tree and mount system affect other mechanics?

I haven't drawn up a nice fancy version like the main two webs, if that's what you mean. And I'm always open to new name suggestions for any of the classes. But if you just mean the general layout of it, then I do think I'm fairly happy with what I've got.

I've sort of been toying with the idea of an "illusionist" class of some sort, and wondering if dancers/bards/etc should be separate or tie in somehow, etc.

If I were to incorporate some sort of hypothetical illusionist class (largely inspired by Guild Wars mesmers), it would probably connect with trickster/rogue, and possibly dancer.

I'm not really sure what the illusionist (or actor?) would really do, though. Maybe it could function like Xane. I just remembered about him. I don't think that mechanic would work well with promotions, though.

What sort of effects on mechanics do you mean?

I always though "Trickmaster" sounded decent for a trickster promotion, just maybe.

If you want to go the route of 'someone who is really good at tricks', there's always Harlequin.

'Blackguard' and 'Mountebank' would be decent if you're just looking for 'someone who deceives'.

I sort of like blackguard.

I think I might just go rogue promoting to trickster, though.

As an additional note, I'm switching Druid/Witch Doctor with Sorcerer/Warlock. So now druids and witch doctors are the ones that heal, and sorcerers and warlocks are the ones who are more offensive.

How does everyone feel about an "Entertainer" trainee class that promotes to "Actor"/"Illusionist" and Dancer/Bard/Minstrel/whatever (actually, not sure if there should be a trainee class for these - what would the trainee even do?). Actor would promote to Trickster/Rogue, and some shared promotion with the dancer/whatever class. The dancer/whatever would also have its own other promotion option, perhaps.

Thoughts? Ideas for what some of these promotions could be? Ideas for what exactly Actors could do?

Edit:

Another idea:

Slingers. In antiquity, the sling saw roughly the same amount of use as the bow. It's use declined in the middle ages, but still saw some use.

I imagine slings could have 2-3 range, higher power than bows, but significantly lower accuracy. They might also get a bonus against archer units, but maybe not.

Since slings are pretty much entirely cloth, I don't think bronze/iron/steel/silver would really work as names for the slings, though.

Maybe they could go jute/wool/cotton/linen or something. Or you could keep the metal names, and explain it as referring to the ammo. Even the bows should be mostly made of wood, right? So the metal names could stay, I suppose.

I think I was going to say something else, but I forgot what it was.

So slingers: cool? Or too radical/unnecessary?

Edited April 3, 2013 by Crixler

[S.C. Amigo]

Reaver as a promotion of berserker. But there aren't any more warriors in this tree, and I don't know what else to call a T3 berserker.

Destroyer? Pillager? Raider?

[Crixler]

Destroyer? Pillager? Raider?

Raider could work - I'd probably switch it around so it goes brigand/fighter -> raider -> berserker, though.

[Knight]

How about Marauder?