Luna-Crit, an alternative to Lethality-RK in Streetpass

[Asakyun]

So I was theorycrafting for streetpass, when I thought about this.

What you'll need

- Swordmaster or Sorcerer

- Sol Katti or Ruin (More Sol Kattis from DLC)

- Limit Breaker (obviously)

- Character that can get Luna, Wrath and Vantage.

- Access to Barbarian, Great Knight (Cav/Knight) and Myrmidon to get the above skills.

- Aggressor, Counter, Gamble or Res+10 are nice options for the last slot.

Pros:

- Compared to the maximum 3 characters that can use Lethality-RK, you can potentially fill 10 slots (but optimally 6) with Luna-crit characters, even if you use avatars only.

- At its highest potential (using Gamble), there is a 28% chance of getting a Luna-crit, 31% chance if using a +Skl avatar, compared to 24% chance of Lethality-RK.

Cons:

- No access to Brave weapons or consecutive hit weapons

- Class access is extremely restricted

Note that the full potential of this build only comes out when a character on your streetpass team is at half HP, another one of its weaknesses in comparison to Lethality-RK.

This theory works on this basis - 1.5x the enemy's def/res is added to your own damage when you activate Luna on a critical. Thus, damage dealt by the Luna-crit depends heavily on the enemy's def/res.

Proccing a Luna-crit on a maxed LB General using the Sol Katti will add (1.5 times 60 = 90) damage to your attack, while the same Luna-crit using Ruin will add 60 damage to your attack.

Luna-crit build is also a lot more attainable than the Lethality-RK build and has about the same activation rate (appx. 25%). You assume that you have 54% chance to get Luna, 97% chance for crit (-55% for limit break luck cap) which leaves you at a 22.68% chance to get the Luna-crit. On the other hand, Sorceror's Luna-crit has much less activation chance, at 18.72%. (Alternatively Aversa!Morgan w/ shadowgift + Sage can make up for the crappiness of Ruin Luna-crits, but this would be wasted.)

Gamble brings out the full potential, with a 28.08% chance of getting the luna-crit (52% chance crit and 54% chance Luna) as well as increasing efficacy before the character drops below 50%.

The activation rate is much higher when they have not capped luck. By comparison, there's a 24% chance to OHKO using Lethality-RK on a Hero, one of the most rounded out classes with the second highest SKL cap in the game.

The one big difference is that Luna-crit does not allow you to use Brave weapons, a huge factor in Lethality-RK builds (up to 4 chances at lethality in 1 turn) and that Lethality-RK does not depend on the enemy's Luck stat. (Luck will reduce the likelihood of criticals)

And so, the ultimate Streetpass troll team would be 3x Lethality-RK characters (Lucina-Inigo-Morgan) and 6x Luna-crit characters, for example, 6 Avatars. There's better ways to get Luna-crit but I'm lazy. Preferably 3 Lethality-RK assassins and 6 Luna-crit Swordmasters. FeMU cannot access Luna-crit, but MaMU cannot get Inigo!Morgan, and Lethality-RK is generally stronger than Luna-Crit because of access to Brave weapons and their equivalents.

And so you can only have up to 6 Luna-crit swordmasters.

Tl;dr Crits with luna proc essentially do the same thing as lethality and are effective as a troll team in Streetpass

Edited June 2, 2013 by Asakyun

[Airship Canon]

Supports add Dodge, so knock 20% off critical rates.

[BlueFire]

Supports add Dodge, so knock 20% off critical rates.

Also, 1 luck = 1 dodge, so knock off another 55%. You might as well be trying to activate Lethality after going through all this trouble.

Don't plan your team to beat uncapped units. You can beat non-maxed teams with many strategies.

Edited June 2, 2013 by BlueFire

[Asakyun]

Also, 1 luck = 1 dodge, so knock off another 55%. You might as well be trying to activate Lethality after going through all this trouble.

Don't plan your team to beat uncapped units. You can beat non-maxed teams with many strategies.

I took in account critdodge, I would have almost 100% crit rate without taking into account 55% crit dodge.

Skl (swordmaster)= 54 > 27% crit rate

Crit (Sol Katti)=50

Wrath > 20 (when under 50% HP)

Gamble> 10

107% crit rate

Edited June 2, 2013 by Asakyun

[Airship Canon]

I took in account critdodge, I would have almost 100% crit rate without taking into account 55% crit dodge.

Skl (swordmaster)= 54 > 27% crit rate

Crit (Sol Katti)=50

Wrath > 20 (when under 50% HP)

Gamble> 10

107% crit rate

Outside of Miracle (and that's iffy- because Dual strikes troll it.), you won't get hits in once at Wrath range.

You'll have very little hit as-is, and Gamble hurts it.

It's pretty easy to bring crit builds down to 0 Crit/0 Hit.

Ruin doesn't have the MT (even with Luna) considering you -need- to go 25 Hit / 3 MT to have any hit chance in Streetpass. (7 MT is absolutely nothing)

55 base LCK + 14 Rallies, and at least 3 from Support (Pair Up).

That puts you at 72 LCK on AVERAGE.

On an initiate, that's 92 dodge.

87 base crit rate, completely annulled.

And you'll be down in Hit, ESPECIALLY with Sol Katti, because WTD.

Furthermore, in order to kill with a crit, you need 27 Damage with your Luna, which you'd realize is pretty hard to get.

Crit builds work for the player. For the CPU, not so much.

And outside of one incident involving a chance that had about a ~.00002% chance of occurrence, no crits ever did anything to my non-limit breaker team (and the only reason that did anything was due to a Lethality Proc. A Luna proc on that same move wouldn't have accomplished anything of note- in fact it would've made my next strike hit a lot harder.)

And yes, Gamble does hurt you -bad- in Streetpass, as you need ever single point of Hit you're afforded. (This is why there's only 1 way to forge a weapon for Streetpass: Hit+25, MT+3.)

[Asakyun]

However, Sol Katti has 100 hit, which is on the highest end of hit rates. And on the other hand, Crit+luna should ohko if it hits. See the above example of a general getting luna/critted and taking 90 damage without considering the swordmaster's own damage.

Luna's damage is solely based on the target's defense - a normal luna will do damage equal to 50% of the defense/res, but a luna crit will do damage equal to 150% of the defense/res. Thus they impale themselves simply by having high defense, and the fact of a crit will kill a low defense unit. It's not a wild idea for a limit broken unit to have 54 defense, in any case.

If we consider the swordmaster's damage, then no matter what defense the unit has, as long as he successfully gets luna+crit, he should ohko.\

Finally, imo the objective of streetpass is to troll the other players, and make them reset - if you can kill just one of them and force a reset, then you've achieved your goal. Thus any chance of that is better than no chance. (.15*.54 = 8.1% lol)

I do acknowledge that with a rally bot my chance of crit is drastically lowered, but having Luna means I still do some damage.

And I don't know who would deliberately use rally luck - until I've made them reset at least once.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Asakyun

[shadykid]

the thing about streetpass teams is simple-your team is fixed, the other guy has all the time in the world to move around skills

however, the easiest thing to do is simply avoid-stack, and sweep through before a counterattack opportunity presents itself

(I mean really, your swordmasters would get Celica's Gale to the face all day)

Luna's damage is solely based on the target's defense - a normal luna will do damage equal to 50% of the defense/res, but a luna crit will do damage equal to 150% of the defense/res. Thus they impale themselves simply by having high defense, and the fact of a crit will kill a low defense unit. It's not a wild idea for a limit broken unit to have 54 defense, in any case.

this is the dumbest thing I've ever read

a unit with high defense will take less damage than a unit with low defense, regardless of Luna, crit, a Luna crit, or whatever, because even after Luna activates the unit with high defense still has more defense

Edited June 3, 2013 by shadykid

[Asakyun]

Luna ignores 50% of defenses. Luna crit essentially ignores 50% * 3 or 150% of defenses. to put it in perspective, if the enemy had 50 defense, it's like they actually had negative 25 defense. I've proved this in game. (try it yourself) . So, you actually do more damage as their defense gets higher.

[shadykid]

Luna ignores 50% of defenses. Luna crit essentially ignores 50% * 3 or 150% of defenses. to put it in perspective, if the enemy had 50 defense, it's like they actually had negative 25 defense. I've proved this in game. (try it yourself) . So, you actually do more damage as their defense gets higher.

ok look

you have 100 attack, enemy has 60 defense

you activate Luna and connect, you deal 100-(60/2)=70 damage

enemy has 40 defense, you deal 100-(40/20=80 damage, presumably OHKOing them

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Outside of Miracle (and that's iffy- because Dual strikes troll it.), you won't get hits in once at Wrath range.

You'll have very little hit as-is, and Gamble hurts it.

It's pretty easy to bring crit builds down to 0 Crit/0 Hit.

Ruin doesn't have the MT (even with Luna) considering you -need- to go 25 Hit / 3 MT to have any hit chance in Streetpass. (7 MT is absolutely nothing)

55 base LCK + 14 Rallies, and at least 3 from Support (Pair Up).

That puts you at 72 LCK on AVERAGE.

On an initiate, that's 92 dodge.

87 base crit rate, completely annulled.

And you'll be down in Hit, ESPECIALLY with Sol Katti, because WTD.

Furthermore, in order to kill with a crit, you need 27 Damage with your Luna, which you'd realize is pretty hard to get.

Crit builds work for the player. For the CPU, not so much.

And outside of one incident involving a chance that had about a ~.00002% chance of occurrence, no crits ever did anything to my non-limit breaker team (and the only reason that did anything was due to a Lethality Proc. A Luna proc on that same move wouldn't have accomplished anything of note- in fact it would've made my next strike hit a lot harder.)

And yes, Gamble does hurt you -bad- in Streetpass, as you need ever single point of Hit you're afforded. (This is why there's only 1 way to forge a weapon for Streetpass: Hit+25, MT+3.)

Thank you for saying pretty much everything I was going to say. You clearly know your stuff, especially regarding the only correct way to forge weapons for StreetPass. It always makes me chuckle to see enemies with +5 Mt +15 Hit, rather than +3 Mt +25 Hit.

1) Ruin is garbage; Katarina's Bolt is vastly superior. The extra Crit isn't worth the loss of Mt and Hit.

2) You absolutely need every last point of Hit you can muster.

3) Breakers will trivialize your team.

[Donnel]

If crit based troll team, I prefer Tomebreaker, Focus, Anathema, Tomefaire, Luna with Excalibur.

If you are bothered enough to grind for trolling, then swap Tomefaire with Counter.

Tomebreaker increase your hit/avo against many tome user, and 1-R user will have to get around Counter.

Dark Knight is the best for the movement speed.

The best part is the opponent might not know you're trolling, since the above skills are so ordinary.